Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-10-29] [Melissa N.]

[LadyBoyJay]

If you were to tell me that Marina in this scene is one of the two goddesses playing this game, and that she's going to confront the other player because at some point there was "cheating" involved, or something... I'd find that an easier pill to swallow than this last set of "revelations".

Hmm... if Marina is a goddess, my guess would be that she is Discord/Discordia/Eris. Marina does kind of look like the depiction of Discord from the Hercules and Xena TV shows. The evil sister of Aphrodite...

 

[MyraTSF]

I think it's safe to assume we don't get the entire timeline presented. And now that we know it's not a fake pussy I think that thing that gave everyone a scare (right before the dinner arc, when Andrew "woke up" for the first time in around page 500+) is when Andrew snapped out of the persona and had a moment of clarity and found out his dick was gone for good and the pussy was real. That shock might have nuked some memories.

 

[Thalantyr]

The second thing I'll note is the emphasis on real pussy and now this impregnation talk. Suggests to me that we aren't talking about Elena having undergone modern surgery, but seemingly instead that she's been implanted with something more like labgrown organs or something. Which is fine, this isn't really a criticism as much as an observation.

Just a minor clarification before we go down a rabbit hole of implanted sci-fi organs: "Elena" is already past the age of menopause so it wouldn't make any sense for them to make her capable of pregnancy. I'm pretty sure Nikos was just gaslighting her to make her believe that she is the biological mother of Eva and Sofia (and/or to create an alternate reality per LadyBoyJay's theory).

 

[rebirth095]

Andrew snapped out of the persona and had a moment of clarity and found out his dick was gone for good and the pussy was real. That shock might have nuked some memories.

I think this really depends on how you interpret some scenes (totally understandable given the theories and the non-linear story so far).

We've basically been told that there wasn't a separate persona during the timeskip. Apparently the timeline goes:

Andrew gets the first set of major surgeries (prosthetic). He speaks with Marina and they come up with a safe word. Andrew decides to behave as Elena and convinces the entire family to do this.

For a while, Elena behaves perfectly in character. At some point, the family has her go through a second surgery.

Elena has lost her memories of a certain chunk of time.

For a while, I think we were speculating that the memory loss was another personality "at the wheel", but the later chapters and especially Elena's monologue explaining everything seems to be contradicting that.

Basically, I don't think we have 2 sets of memory loss: as in, we don't have memory loss due to another personality and also memory loss due to shock. I think we have one or the other. This would mean that if there was a "shock", you'd have to explain two things:

1) Why wasn't Elena so shocked over the first set of surgeries? I mean, she was flat out told she'd been castrated and although her dick was "hidden", I mean... you're still waking up with what seems like your penis gone. But that's less important compared to...

2) Why would Andrew consent to be further feminized and then find it shocking when he was? Or why/how was Andrew knocked out and forced to undergo more surgery (specifically in such a way to explain the family's later reactions that I outlined in my previous post)?

Just a minor clarification before we go down a rabbit hole of implanted sci-fi organs: "Elena" is already past the age of menopause so it wouldn't make any sense for them to make her capable of pregnancy. I'm pretty sure Nikos was just gaslighting her to make her believe that she is the biological mother of Eva and Sofia (and/or to create an alternate reality per @LadyBoyJay's theory).

Sure... although, would it really be out of character as an act of control for Nikos to want to impregnate his wife? Given how they seem to be trying to recreate the marriage again (proposing, having a marriage, etc).

That said, I'll note that I brought up the lab organs point not to say that I think the story is going to go down a pregnancy route (although it wouldn't surprise me if it did), but more so to say that I think we've got some futuretech medicine here. She might not necessarily have a womb and ovaries, but the whole emphasis on "real" and now all this pregnancy talk (alongside a second surgery that was able to be snuck in) just thematically feels like to me that there's something beyond our current medical tech.

 

[Thalantyr]

Sure... although, would it really be out of character as an act of control for Nikos to want to impregnate his wife? Given how they seem to be trying to recreate the marriage again (proposing, having a marriage, etc).

Well, if he wanted to impregnate his wife in the present, why not make a hot 20-year-old (or even a 40-something, who could still feasibly be Eva and Sofia's mother)? I don't think he's trying to literally recreate anything, but rather that these lines of dialogue are practiced tactics to get Andrew to embrace his new reality as Elena. There seems to be a weird dichotomy going on. My current interpretation is that there are some times when Nikos is speaking to Andrew and trying to convince him to willingly become Elena, and other times when he is speaking to Elena and acting like she has always been Elena and Andrew never existed.

Take the proposal scene you mentioned:


If Nikos is the mastermind behind this transformation, it almost seems like this proposal was a test to see how far gone Andrew really was. The initial proposal on page 841 is being addressed to Andrew, but it's Elena who responds on page 842, so on 843 Nikos instantly switches it up adopts the new reality that they've been married for 30 years.

Then later on it seems like he's addressing Andrew again, clarifying that he's not just putting on an act for whoever might be spying on them, but that he really want Andrew to stay as Elena and marry him for real:


This latest conversation where he tells her to remember being pregnant seems to be him addressing Elena again in order to immerse her in the new reality and forget the old reality.

 

[MyraTSF]

I doubt we will see lab-grown organs. That would go way too much out of the loop of the current story and feel like it could unravel the entire fabric of the comic.
We are already in a very stretched terminology of "realistic" forced fem.

 

[rebirth095]

Take the proposal scene you mentioned:


If Nikos is the mastermind behind this transformation, it almost seems like this proposal was a test to see how far gone Andrew really was. The initial proposal on page 841 is being addressed to Andrew, but it's Elena who responds on page 842, so on 843 Nikos instantly switches it up adopts the new reality that they've been married for 30 years.

I was more so referring to all the way back at the beginning:



Sure, I think viewing it as a "test" can be valid, but at least for me, Nikos seems to be speedrunning their relationship again. Propose, get married, followed by presumably honeymoon, etc. To be honest, it seems less like he's speaking "to Andrew", rather than it's always a consistent: "This is how you should behave"/"This is how 'Elena' should behave". He's never trying to convince "Andrew". Unless I've forgotten a scene, Nikos has never tried to say anything like "Isn't being Elena so much better?" Everything is just a demand.

- "Tell me you'll stay with me."
- "Tell me how much you like this."
- "Tell me you remember."

Reading these scenes, if you weren't told that this story was a feminization story where Elena was once Andrew, none of the scenes really feel that inconsistent (as if some are to Andrew and some are to Elena). They just read as a controlling possibly abusive husband insisting their wife is a certain way.

We are already in a very stretched terminology of "realistic" forced fem.

I mean, we already had "prosthetic capable of taking 4 inches worth of penetration and also hiding the remains of the penis". Like... you add in the "next day" recovery times, why would replacement organs be less realistic? Heck, it doesn't have to be lab grown then. Call it donor organs harvested from someone. That's arguably more realistic than borderline magic prosthetic? Overall, my point is that there's this huge emphasis on "real" this chapter and it's telling us that a 2nd surgery occurred that is meaningful and somehow more dramatic than the prosthetic that was already there and apparently happened in a short enough time frame that it didn't raise flags with all of these supposed people spying on this family.

 

[MyraTSF]

Call it donor organs harvested from someone. That's arguably more realistic than borderline magic prosthetic?

True, I've heard uterus transplantation is a thing actually. Never heard it in a crossgender operation IRL, but it could be a nice plot device in a future story where the protagonist ends up pregnant. At 55 years I feel it would be way too old to have some kind of impact for the "immerse the MC deeper into their role". At 55 to immerse the protag more authentic they need to discuss their retirement plans, dental plans and so on

 

[Stevedore100]

A lot of stuff here to take in, a few observations:

Marina winders if Elena realizes yet her vagina is real; this indicates to me Elena is unaware of the 2nd surgery. Was there a car crash that knocked her out ( it she was knocked out and the crash staged) and then the surgery happened? Seems likely to me. Or something along those lines.

Marina never ever seems to have any ill will towards Nikos. Before it seemed possibly out of ignorance. But here, she seems to have a good idea of what has gone on (mentioning what "they" dud to Elena) and she still shows absolutely no anger at Nikos. I really am holding out that he is a hopeless dupe in all this and his feelings of what he desires is being used to manipulate him.

 

[rebirth095]

Was there a car crash that knocked her out ( it she was knocked out and the crash staged) and then the surgery happened? Seems likely to me. Or something along those lines.

Here's the biggest details to me:

Elena had a very public and obvious time spent at the hospital (a few weeks based on page 735) during the first major surgery. I had presumed the car crash was a cover story for why she was in the hospital and why she had extensive surgery done all over her body. To me, this makes the most sense.

Now, if that wasn't used as the cover story back then, why do people think Elena was at the hospital then? Remember, the inspector visited her at the hospital.

So if it's true that most/all of this is to keep a cover story, then a second trip to the hospital needs an explanation. Or, that second trip has to be so short that no one notices.

More or less, we're sitting at a point where readers have to decide if they think there's:

- 1 or 2 hospital visits and surgeries.
- 1 or 2 "car accident" cover stories.
- 0 or 1 "real" car accidents.
- 1 or 2 memory losses.

And what that order is, because that's what this ultimately boils down to. This chapter basically confirms 2 surgeries, unless the Doctor lied about the prosthetic after the first surgery. But we see no evidence he was lying then.

Marina never ever seems to have any ill will towards Nikos. Before it seemed possibly out of ignorance. But here, she seems to have a good idea of what has gone on (mentioning what "they" dud to Elena) and she still shows absolutely no anger at Nikos. I really am holding out that he is a hopeless dupe in all this and his feelings of what he desires is being used to manipulate him.

Yes, I completely agree that it's weird how angry Marina is at Elena fucking Nikos rather than Nikos fucking/feminizing Andrew. But there's just no way Nikos is "innocent" in all this.

You just can't explain away all this shit:

Here's the thing though: an underdeveloped character can "develop" characterization through their inaction. Here's what we know about Nikos:

He's the type of person that will "propose" to his niece's husband and then pulls shit like this:



He's the type of person that decides to let Marina and Andrew fight, rather than offer any kind of solution.

You're telling me that while they're hosting Joel, Nikos couldn't have made the world's easiest excuse, which is that Elena has taken her beloved niece Marina around Greece (or even generally visiting sites in Europe) over the next few months? Or even if he didn't think of it immediately, why is Nikos, who is seeing his niece so upset, just going "well, sucks for you. Time to get your husband femmed up so we can kiss and fuck some more!"?



When "Elena" is suddenly extremely distressed and asking about "Andrew", he's the kind of man that just "stays in character" and gaslights her?

When any rational person would take this as a hint that something is wrong, and say something like "Oh honey, I'm not sure what you're talking about", and then lean in and whisper "we should find somewhere more private to speak". Like, I take great issue with How Marina didn't do something like that, but at least she immediately tried to use the safe word and then was upset that Andrew wasn't responding.



Nikos is the type of person that makes out with Andrew and then wraps his arms around her in FRONT of her wife? And then proudly openly says that they're getting married? And then has Marina take part in this farce by toasting the "happy couple"?

All the while with that stupid smile on his face, and never even stopping once to check in on how Marina is holding up?



Nikos hasn't "done" many actions towards Marina, and hasn't technically treated Elena "poorly". But there's many actions he should have taken but didn't. He never tries to help keep Marina and Andrew together, he never tries to minimize the weirdness of the current events, never tries anything to keep Andrew from becoming more feminized. He never shows even the slightest hesitation. The closest thing he does was way back at the first dinner.



The best he could come up with to derail this train all the way back then was a shrug. And since then, he has never stopped once when it comes to getting physical with his "wife".

All of that characterizes him as a selfish, manipulative, bastard, and possibly disconnected from reality. This is sadistic behavior. Given his wealth and presumed intelligence behind his success, you're telling me that once Joel showed up, he couldn't have come up with the story: "My wife's been driving me crazy so I sent her away. Bitches, am I right?" Honestly, that would have probably played perfectly into the old man's "conservative, religious zealot" biases; Gotta put women in their place.

He's been on screen enough, been part of events enough, and the story has gone on long enough that his lack of action speaks volumes about the type of person he is.

 

[Stevedore100]

Here's the biggest details to me:

Elena had a very public and obvious time spent at the hospital (a few weeks based on page 735) during the first major surgery. I had presumed the car crash was a cover story for why she was in the hospital and why she had extensive surgery done all over her body. To me, this makes the most sense.

Now, if that wasn't used as the cover story back then, why do people think Elena was at the hospital then? Remember, the inspector visited her at the hospital.

So if it's true that most/all of this is to keep a cover story, then a second trip to the hospital needs an explanation. Or, that second trip has to be so short that no one notices.

More or less, we're sitting at a point where readers have to decide if they think there's:

- 1 or 2 hospital visits and surgeries.
- 1 or 2 "car accident" cover stories.
- 0 or 1 "real" car accidents.
- 1 or 2 memory losses.

And what that order is, because that's what this ultimately boils down to. This chapter basically confirms 2 surgeries, unless the Doctor lied about the prosthetic after the first surgery. But we see no evidence he was lying then.



Yes, I completely agree that it's weird how angry Marina is at Elena fucking Nikos rather than Nikos fucking/feminizing Andrew. But there's just no way Nikos is "innocent" in all this.

You just can't explain away all this shit:

It was Seferi, not the Inspector at the hospital, but he does mention the accident, so it was an excuse then.
At Marinas visit in the hospital, she seems unaware of the extent if the surgeries. So she must learn later.

I am fairly certain that this story will involve a good deal of exposing away things; it's just way too complicated and trips over itself (I'm good with the effort at making a good crack at it). Obviously someone has done a number in Andrew's identity, memory, attraction. The same could be for Nikos - he was supposedly the carefree bachelor to start, now he is in a 30 year marriage. Aphrodite says herself that she messes with desire/attraction.

 

[Alicia Mae]

First off, Marina apparently knows that Elena's had this surgery done.

This is so strange to me. How long ago did Marina learn her husband had fully transitioned? It seems she also knows that Andrew was unaware of such a dramatic change to his own anatomy. Which begs the question- Why didn’t she tell him? If your husband gets his dick cut off without his knowledge, maybe give him a heads up lol.

 

[Thalantyr]

This is so strange to me. How long ago did Marina learn her husband had fully transitioned? It seems she also knows that Andrew was unaware of such a dramatic change to his own anatomy. Which begs the question- Why didn’t she tell him? If your husband gets his dick cut off without his knowledge, maybe give him a heads up lol.

Assuming Marina is not in on the scheme, then presumably she learned this after visiting him in the hospital and she hasn't had a chance to be alone with him since.

Since Marina and Andrew spoke in the hospital (which was when Marina apparently first learned everything that Andrew knew about the surgeries performed on him), the next day was the dinner party, where Andrew ignored Marina's attempts to use the codeword, and when they were finally alone they bumped into Joel so Marina had to veer off.

After the dinner party the timeline fast-forwards 2 weeks to the day of Nikos and Elena's "honeymoon". We don't know what Marina or Andrew were doing during that time, but Marina mentions attempting the codeword with Andrew several more times and being ignored each time:


At the conclusion of the honeymoon, Andrew gets most of his memories back and finally remembers that there is a codeword. The comic skips ahead 3 days to the pool gathering. We know that Marina and Andrew did not speak during those 3 days because Andrew was intentionally avoiding her:


So the pool gathering is the first time since the hospital that Andrew and Marina have been together when Andrew had his memories, and in particular the memory of the codeword. Unfortunately Marina is too angry to listen to him at that point. From her perspective, she's been desperately trying to reach him for two and a half weeks and he's been ignoring/avoiding her in order to fuck her uncle.

And this brings us up to the present, later that night following the pool gathering, where Andrew and Marina both consciously cheat on each other out of spite.

 

[rebirth095]

This is so strange to me. How long ago did Marina learn her husband had fully transitioned? It seems she also knows that Andrew was unaware of such a dramatic change to his own anatomy. Which begs the question- Why didn’t she tell him? If your husband gets his dick cut off without his knowledge, maybe give him a heads up lol.

Andrew being unaware can sort of be explained in that the prosthetic was extremely advanced and was for all intents and purposes the same, so long as Elena didn't test its limits. I'll be honest, I forgot that if this last surgery was something planned then no one should be thinking that Elena doesn't know.

This is a great overall pointthat Andrew is unaware of the change and Marina is not only aware but aware Andrew is unaware which is certainly weird.

So the pool gathering is the first time since the hospital that Andrew and Marina have been together when Andrew had his memories, and in particular the memory of the codeword. Unfortunately Marina is too angry to listen to him at that point. From her perspective, she's been desperately trying to reach him for two and a half weeks and he's been ignoring/avoiding her in order to fuck her uncle.

Great summary and the timeframe does make Marina's anger even more understandable. I think the part that stands out though is: however Marina finds out, this means that this procedure was somehow insanely quick, or that Marina wasn't around during that time.

Best I can see, here are the possibilities on the table:

1) Marina is in on it. As such, it doesn't really matter how long the procedure takes. She knew the family knocked out Elena and did another surgery that Elena wouldn't be aware of.

2) Marina isn't in on it. The procedure was practically overnight, so she didn't know Elena had work done until later, when she was told that this was done to Elena in secret.

3) Marina is in on it and the Doctor lied because this was always the plan. There was not two surgeries but one, and the Doctor was lying based on the family's wishes. She knows that the doctor lied telling Elena is the pussy is a prosthetic, but Marina knows the truth.

4) Marina isn't in on it but the Doctor lied because this was always part of the plan. Marina didn't understand the charts so she doesn't know what the real surgeries were. But the Doctor does and he's lying to Elena/Marina as instructions by the family. There's only one surgery. Marina finds out much later after confronting either the sisters or Nikos. Maybe they break it down that Andrew doesn't love her and is happier as Elena which is why Elena won't respond, and also reveal that the surgeries were more extensive than the Doctor said. As such, she knows she and Elena were lied to but know she knows the truth while Elena is still in the dark.

5) Marina isn't in on it and the second surgery took time, but as part of the cover, Marina was traveling with her "husband" (or was out for any number of reasons). By the time she returned, she wasn't aware of a second surgery. At some point she finds out. Again, maybe when she confronts the family during Elena's "ghosting her".

This did remind me that the "Bitch" Marina refers to could be one of the sisters (I can never remember their names off the top of my head). I don't think that's very natural in terms of how the dialogue played out, but I don't want to throw out that possibility since it technically does fit. Especially if something similar to #4 happened.

 

[Stevedore100]

This did remind me that the "Bitch" Marina refers to could be one of the sisters (I can never remember their names off the top of my head). I don't think that's very natural in terms of how the dialogue played out, but I don't want to throw out that possibility since it technically does fit. Especially if something similar to #4 happened.

Yes. Obviously she could be referring to Elena, especially given the reference to some past conflict they had, and Aphrodite's claim that Andrew married Marina for not good reasons (that might apply to her too).
BUT, it could well be someone else - Marina apparently didn't know the daughters before, but that could have been a lie, or Joanna who pops up at the most inopportune times but always when no family is around.
That about exhausts the list of important female characters.

 

[Alicia Mae]

This did remind me that the "Bitch" Marina refers to could be one of the sisters

It could be ANY of the female characters in my opinion. It seems intentionally open ended, which is what makes me think we’re in for a big twist.

Today’s conspiracy features: Dimitra! Here are a few things that my tinfoil hat has brought to my attention as… plausible lol:

1. Dimitra has seen Elena before and after surgery, and with her varying degrees of Greek accent/fluency. But she doesn’t seem to notice or comment on it. In fact, she seems suspiciously polite and optimistic about everything. Of course, this could just be general high society comportment.

2. She has a connection to Theodora/Joanna. At her introduction, Dimitra arrives at the dance hall not long after the Samaras family- And right after Andrew spots Theodora. It’s possible she had Theodora tailing them so that they could meet up. My guess is to rekindle the connection between Stefanos and Eva after 5 years abroad. This could also explain why Theodora was in the hotel to begin with- she was sent ahead looking for Eva.

3. She may be working with Seferi. When Seferi first answers a call, he indicates that the mystery caller has a new number. Since she says they spent the last five years abroad, it’s reasonable to assume she has a new phone. Knowing Seferi worked with Joel doesn’t dismiss a third partner.

(This is where I really go off the rails lol)

Seferi and Dimitra may even be exes, since we know Seferi’s family suffered at the hands of Toska, and Dmitra has been abroad for so long- possibly running from law enforcement or using “abroad” as a cover. She says that Stefanos is so young and has suffered so much. Could it be that Stefanos had to grow up without his parents while Dimitra was “abroad” and Seferi was in jail? Seferi says he was locked up 22 years ago.

Theodora may even be another feminized sissy. Possibly Seferi’s former male lover, turned into a beautiful doll by a vengeful wife. Maybe Dimitra was furious with her husband’s affair; to find out he wasnt straight, to lose all of their finances, and to have to choose between jail time and fleeing the country. So she vowed to feminize the lover as revenge.

All this work making her family more “normal”, only to meet “Mrs. Samaras” — a man in a dress. Well that’s not going to do. If Stefanos married into this family, they’ll have to correct that. What if Toska finds out? Her family will be ruined AGAIN! So she decides To put Elena’s transition on overdrive.

 

[Thalantyr]

Why are we limiting it to just female characters?


I dunno, Joel strikes me as a bit of a bitch.

 

[Alicia Mae]

I dunno, Joel strikes me as a bit of a bitch.

He does have such bitch vibes. I’m hoping he shows up feminized in a chapter or two, looking like more a bitch than ever. ❤

 

[Stevedore100]

It could be ANY of the female characters in my opinion. It seems intentionally open ended, which is what makes me think we’re in for a big twist.

Today’s conspiracy features: Dimitra! Here are a few things that my tinfoil hat has brought to my attention as… plausible lol:

1. Dimitra has seen Elena before and after surgery, and with her varying degrees of Greek accent/fluency. But she doesn’t seem to notice or comment on it. In fact, she seems suspiciously polite and optimistic about everything. Of course, this could just be general high society comportment.

2. She has a connection to Theodora/Joanna. At her introduction, Dimitra arrives at the dance hall not long after the Samaras family- And right after Andrew spots Theodora. It’s possible she had Theodora tailing them so that they could meet up. My guess is to rekindle the connection between Stefanos and Eva after 5 years abroad. This could also explain why Theodora was in the hotel to begin with- she was sent ahead looking for Eva.

3. She may be working with Seferi. When Seferi first answers a call, he indicates that the mystery caller has a new number. Since she says they spent the last five years abroad, it’s reasonable to assume she has a new phone. Knowing Seferi worked with Joel doesn’t dismiss a third partner.

(This is where I really go off the rails lol)

Seferi and Dimitra may even be exes, since we know Seferi’s family suffered at the hands of Toska, and Dmitra has been abroad for so long- possibly running from law enforcement or using “abroad” as a cover. She says that Stefanos is so young and has suffered so much. Could it be that Stefanos had to grow up without his parents while Dimitra was “abroad” and Seferi was in jail? Seferi says he was locked up 22 years ago.

Theodora may even be another feminized sissy. Possibly Seferi’s former male lover, turned into a beautiful doll by a vengeful wife. Maybe Dimitra was furious with her husband’s affair; to find out he wasnt straight, to lose all of their finances, and to have to choose between jail time and fleeing the country. So she vowed to feminize the lover as revenge.

All this work making her family more “normal”, only to meet “Mrs. Samaras” — a man in a dress. Well that’s not going to do. If Stefanos married into this family, they’ll have to correct that. What if Toska finds out? Her family will be ruined AGAIN! So she decides To put Elena’s transition on overdrive.

Dimitra was right there at the top of my cut off list. That she just arrived from some time abroad does make her a potential - another semi newbie arriving in town at just the right moment along with Andrew. Marina, Joanna, toska,....
And she does know Joanna, but as not Joanna.

 

[Stevedore100]

He does have such bitch vibes. I’m hoping he shows up feminized in a chapter or two, looking like more a bitch than ever. ❤

Dueling Elenas - Seferi, unaware that Andrew is not really Elena, hatches a plan to kidnap Andrew/Elena and replace him with Joel /Elena