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Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-12-24] [Melissa N.]

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
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915
Mirror I find inexplicably sexy. I think it's something about the power dynamic of going from a young guy to a submissive milf. It's the first time I really engaged with an age progression tg thing, and the embracing of having a lack of agency gets me going.
For a while, a lot of mom-son body swap/identity swap stuff really worked for me. Skins by Morpheus might have been the first one that flipped the switch for that kink for me? Especially the non-body-swap, but identity swap through slow transformation (pick your poison of surgery, scifi, or magic) can be really hot for me if it's clear how the characters are mentally changing in addition to physical.
 
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MyraTSF

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Dec 22, 2023
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For a while, a lot of mom-son body swap/identity swap stuff really worked for me. Skins by Morpheus might have been the first one that flipped the switch for that kink for me? Especially the non-body-swap, but identity swap through slow transformation (pick your poison of surgery, scifi, or magic) can be really hot for me if it's clear how the characters are mentally changing in addition to physical.
Got a link to that "Skins by Morpheus" story? I'm unironically only get Minecraft skins on google search :D
 

Tjssss

Newbie
Jun 1, 2021
48
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For a while, a lot of mom-son body swap/identity swap stuff really worked for me. Skins by Morpheus might have been the first one that flipped the switch for that kink for me? Especially the non-body-swap, but identity swap through slow transformation (pick your poison of surgery, scifi, or magic) can be really hot for me if it's clear how the characters are mentally changing in addition to physical.
For me, if its incesty then it's an immediate yuck, lots of mum son swap stuff plays very incesty through whatever family dynamics are going on.

That said, I adore the "becoming my girlfriend's mum" dynamic. Weird how fetish shit works, isn't it?
 

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
289
915
Got a link to that "Skins by Morpheus" story? I'm unironically only get Minecraft skins on google search :D
It's hosted on Fictionmania.tv (which isn't google searchable, but has its own search engine). Goddamn, I must be getting old. Back in the day, there wasn't anyone in the TG fiction scene that wouldn't recognize the author Morpheus.

Yeah, Skins basically introduced me to two of my longest running kinks: Identity swap and body suit transformations.

For me, if its incesty then it's an immediate yuck, lots of mum son swap stuff plays very incesty through whatever family dynamics are going on.

That said, I adore the "becoming my girlfriend's mum" dynamic. Weird how fetish shit works, isn't it?
In terms of fiction and kinks, most of my kinks are only a turn on for me because it's fiction. The moment we're talking real people, it's an instant turn off. I do remember a caption on one of those Yahoo groups (RIP) like that: Basically, a guy wears a body suit to impersonate his girlfriend's mom so they can go on a vacation together. While on travel, he really gets into the role, which annoys his girlfriend, as she was hoping they'd have a fun (and sex filled) trip. As the mom, he surprises her with a strapon and gives the girlfriend a whole new reason to call "her" mommy... Maybe it was one of JenDerBenders caption stories...?
 

misseva88

Member
Jul 5, 2017
196
592
I know we're stepping away from Melissa, but I'm fascinated by story so I'd love to get deeper into this. Feel free to ignore it if this doesn't interest you:

As a huge Carol Danvers/Ms Marvel fan (one that was a fan BEFORE the Captain Marvel rebranding and subsequent stories were focused on being tumblr bait), the movie was always going to have issues because Carol's actual personality would be seen as "problematic". Carol is tough as nails, sure, but she's also weird, nerdy, and most unpalatable to certain groups: is hot and knows it. Her original backstory would have similarly been viewed as "problematic", considering it involved no fewer than two mind rapes and being impregnated and brainwashed into marrying her supernatural spawn.

So yeah: the movie had to strip her of all personality, because heaven forbid you have a female lead that is confident in her looks and also has some flaws. Can't leave our main character open to criticisms /s!

Seriously: we're talking about a character that in comics: after having her powers stolen and mind fucked, became an alcoholic, kicked the habit to hang out with the x-men for a while, got kidnapped by aliens, experimented and triggered her latent powers, had space pirate adventures, and then came back to Earth and wrote about her space adventures to publish a series of best selling sci-fi novels.

Also, she's a goddamn Major in comics. Demoting her to Captain just to have the branding is so freaking dumb.

There are some absolute hacks writing nowadays, absolutely. Doctor Who during the Chibnall era was a complete joke. Matt Reeves and Zack Snyder have no fucking clue how to write Batman as a character/person. Alex Kurtzman should never have been allowed to screw up Star Trek in over half a dozen tv shows and movies. The list goes on.

But before blaming them, I'll blame the infantile, surface level, shallow "analysis" that has plagued social media and youtube. Because having shallow media is one thing, but if the analysis that's popularized is also of poor quality, then there's no room to grow. Instead, you've got an entire generation of kids that grew up thinking that "deep lore" in the form of mystery boxes is the same as "good writing" (fuck you especially, JJ Abrams). Don't get me wrong, before youtube, there was plenty of ship-to-ship fanfic wars, but social media has made that all encompassing when it comes to character discussion. FFS, one of the prevailing talking points after the latst Spider-Man animated movie was whether or not Ghost Spider/Spider-Gwen was trans because of the color theming during a scene. Like... WHAT?! People have lost all sense of the idea that characters and stories can be meant to resonate with a variety of groups, and not have to be so on the nose that they only represent one thing!

It wouldn't matter if all of our movies, tv, comics, and fiction were all exemplary in character writing and thematic quality if all the public is being trained to do is look at surface level traits. But it's not that surprising when you consider that apparently a large percent of young readers are more preoccupied with which two characters secretly wanna bang each other over the actual plot.
Marvel didn't have to use Carol Danvers as their Captain Marvel. They also didn't have to cast Annette Benning as Mar-Vell, who's a dude. And even if they did all that, they didn't have to write her character to have always been great yet misunderstood. It wasn't her who needed changing, it was the world who needed to see her differently. That's not a compelling story arc for a main character, yet that's how Disney brands insist on writing their Strong Female Characters© these days. Modern (Hollywood) writers confuse flawed characters for weakness. And bah gawd, imagine portraying a weakness in a woman indeed.
But it's a flaw that makes a character interesting and appealing. Perfect characters aren't interesting. Flawed characters allow for interesting villains who want to abuse that flaw. That's where the interesting dynamics come from in storytelling. Batman wants peace in Gotham and won't kill to get it, yet there's the Joker who wants chaos and mayhem and will only be stopped when he's dead, for example.

There is a ton of dumb analysis on YouTube, just as there are solid analysts. But I think the problem with storytelling runs deeper than just some random punditry on YouTube. The common denominator for most Hollywood failures is Bad Robot and its (former) employees. It's not just JJ Abrams (indeed, go fuck yourself JJ) but everything he stands for, including (former) Bad Robot employees like Kurtzman, Reeves, Lindsey Weber, J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay, Lindelof, Lisa Joy and hacks like them.
Chibnall is in a league of his own, but he's equally awful. But for the record I'm also not a fan of the Moffat era either; he also had way too many mystery box stories in the seasons he was a showrunner for.

It's popular blaming fans for being so-called gatekeepers these days, I disagree with that. It isn't the fans' gate to keep. It's the big companies and the storytellers' gate to keep. They do an awful job and fans get frustrated when their beloved stories aren't translated well to the big screen; whether that's film, tv show or even video games these days (hello Suicide Squad Kills The Justice League). Especially when .
If the source material isn't the main reason for adapting a story, what is? There's ingenuity within Hollywood, as fanbaiting is a common trope to try and gain engagement. Somehow Hollywood executives think pissing off fans to have them rage on X leads to them earning more money, because some marketing hack persuaded them engagement=money. It doesn't, Hollywood is shrinking for a reason. Just like the comic book industry is a failing industry after their 'recent' (what, 10 year?) desire to step away from their, shall we say, traditional heroes. We're in the age of checkboxes and left the age of story prevailing.

Also, your last sentence is incorrect. At least, according to some . That's why we hardly see romance in films anymore. Women aren't allowed to be pretty anymore, nor are they allowed to be feminine. Men aren't allowed to be masculine, but they do have to be hardbodies. But romance between both genders isn't allowed.
I imagine that's why many are into the transformation kink, as at least the women in these stories are presented as sexy women embracing their feminity. But that's just my own hypothesis and it's not why I'm into it myself, so I may be reading too much into it.
 

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
289
915
Marvel didn't have to use Carol Danvers as their Captain Marvel. They also didn't have to cast Annette Benning as Mar-Vell, who's a dude. And even if they did all that, they didn't have to write her character to have always been great yet misunderstood. It wasn't her who needed changing, it was the world who needed to see her differently. That's not a compelling story arc for a main character, yet that's how Disney brands insist on writing their Strong Female Characters© these days. Modern (Hollywood) writers confuse flawed characters for weakness. And bah gawd, imagine portraying a weakness in a woman indeed.
But it's a flaw that makes a character interesting and appealing. Perfect characters aren't interesting. Flawed characters allow for interesting villains who want to abuse that flaw. That's where the interesting dynamics come from in storytelling. Batman wants peace in Gotham and won't kill to get it, yet there's the Joker who wants chaos and mayhem and will only be stopped when he's dead, for example.
I don't think characters even need to be written with "flaws" (I'll note, I think your and my definition of flaw is very different. I don't consider Batman's no killing policy to be a "flaw", but rather part of his set of morals. Joker tests his morals, but that's an assessment of his character. A flaw, to me, is how Batman constantly alienates his team members, family, and friends due to his paranoia and need for control. Situations like "Tower of Babel" are caused because of Batman's arrogance). But for compelling story writing, writers need to execute on some kind of narrative. Perfect example of this is Huck by Mark Millar. Huck is basically perfect. Kind, handsome, super strong, seemingly indestructible... The story doesn't try to bring him down, or say that he's wrong for trying to help people. In many ways, it takes the "with great power" line, but rather than treating it like a burden or shackle, treats it ultimately as a privilege. Huck gets to do good in the world. It's a responsibility, but it can also be the reward. Angst is easy. But are writers talented enough to have a theme, and execute on that theme? That's more challenging.

There is a ton of dumb analysis on YouTube, just as there are solid analysts. But I think the problem with storytelling runs deeper than just some random punditry on YouTube. The common denominator for most Hollywood failures is Bad Robot and its (former) employees. It's not just JJ Abrams (indeed, go fuck yourself JJ) but everything he stands for, including (former) Bad Robot employees like Kurtzman, Reeves, Lindsey Weber, J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay, Lindelof, Lisa Joy and hacks like them.
Chibnall is in a league of his own, but he's equally awful. But for the record I'm also not a fan of the Moffat era either; he also had way too many mystery box stories in the seasons he was a showrunner for.
Nah, if it were just Bad Robot, than we wouldn't also be having such hack writing in books, comics, musicals, video games... Like, from a thematic standpoint, Dear Evan Hansen is horrifying and Evan is absolutely a monster. But the fans somehow completely missed that until the movie adaptation cast a 30 something year old as a high schooler and drew more attention to the creepiness of the entire situation. Five Nights at Freddy's, both the games and the movie, are only "complicated" because its audience seems to have the reading comprehension of a third grader, while the only adults playing in that space do the whole "I came up with a theory, and am cherry picking evidence that supports this to form a coherent video".

Moffat might have had too many long arc mysteries, but at least 1) they were integrated into the season, even if the payoff was often lack luster, and 2) The man understood character. 11 and 12 and their companions were all distinct personalities with their individual goals, ambitions, flaws, and arcs. I'd take 10 more seasons run by Moffat before ever wishing even 1 more episode by Chibnall. Also, I'm gonna say it: RTD is overrated. Completely wasted the Toymaker, and seems to always come back to the same trick: Sad Doctor. The man can plot an arc, I'll give him that, but he's got the subtlety of a fucking wrecking ball.

It's popular blaming fans for being so-called gatekeepers these days, I disagree with that. It isn't the fans' gate to keep. It's the big companies and the storytellers' gate to keep. They do an awful job and fans get frustrated when their beloved stories aren't translated well to the big screen; whether that's film, tv show or even video games these days (hello Suicide Squad Kills The Justice League). Especially when .
If the source material isn't the main reason for adapting a story, what is? There's ingenuity within Hollywood, as fanbaiting is a common trope to try and gain engagement. Somehow Hollywood executives think pissing off fans to have them rage on X leads to them earning more money, because some marketing hack persuaded them engagement=money. It doesn't, Hollywood is shrinking for a reason. Just like the comic book industry is a failing industry after their 'recent' (what, 10 year?) desire to step away from their, shall we say, traditional heroes. We're in the age of checkboxes and left the age of story prevailing.
I sort of agree. I absolutely think it's the job of the rights holder to hire the right people for the project. When you hire people that have no interest and more importantly, no understanding of the material, you get shit like The Witcher. But at the same time, most things can't be adapted 1 to 1 and require some amount of streamlining to work in the new medium. And also, if a writer had any talent, then the new story can be compelling. The Boys is a great example. Absolute garbage comic, narratively speaking, with shallow characters and basically no intrigue. The show is compelling because even if the most loyal fans get pissed that XYZ character was changed, the show itself still has a strong narrative.

Or you have talented writers like Jonathan Hickman that didn't know much about the Fantastic Four, but read basically every comic after he got hired, and then wrote one of the most amazing runs of Fantastic Four ever.

The executives are a problem, but just as much is writer ego. There's so much trying to "make their mark". And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Nolan should explore different aspects of Batman than Burton or Bruce Timm. You don't need to necessarily love the source material yourself, but if you don't even understand it, that's the problem. Generally, I think Executives are just trend chasers: "Oh, that multiverse film did well, let's all do a multiverse movie. This movie has a quirky non-powered side kick, then our movie needs to have a quirky non-powered side kick..." The reason why I always refer to these writers as hacks, is because if they had even a modicum of talent, they could navigate the studio requirements, while at least delivering a solid plot. Instead, it seems they're more interested in telling "their" story first and foremost, and then often the studio requirement isn't integrated and thus sticks out even more in an already shit story.


Also, your last sentence is incorrect. At least, according to some . That's why we hardly see romance in films anymore. Women aren't allowed to be pretty anymore, nor are they allowed to be feminine. Men aren't allowed to be masculine, but they do have to be hardbodies. But romance between both genders isn't allowed.
I imagine that's why many are into the transformation kink, as at least the women in these stories are presented as sexy women embracing their feminity. But that's just my own hypothesis and it's not why I'm into it myself, so I may be reading too much into it.
I think you misunderstood me. Young readers don't want to see sex on screen, because that ruins their shipping. They especially don't want to see characters in relationships because that ruins their head-canon couples. Look at the reactions to Voltron Legendary Defender and all the stupid arguments over character ages rather than even for a second looking at the character arcs and asking "are these characters even romatically involved by any on screen evidence"? Look at the Hamilton fanfics that are shipping these interpretations of historical figures because... reasons? The vitriol of Genji and Mercy getting romantic voicelines in Overwatch because fans were upset that this ruined their Hanzo-Genji and Mercy-Pharah ships.

Don't get me wrong: yaoi shippers have been there for years. But with the internet, they've found more like minded individuals to be loud enough that writers have to actually respond to their insanity.

I don't think it's transformation kinks specifically, rather that a lot of nonsense was treating "sexy" as "sexist". So for a while (and to an extent even now), there's been a downplaying of sexually charged content. But it's not like that market vanished. It's just an underserved market. So in the last year, we've had an uptick as content creators test the waters and determine: yes, sex still sells. Look, Baldur's Gate 3 is absolutely a great game. It's made even better by having some hot characters. Heck, Persona 3 Reload just came out and kept the High-Cut Armor. I guarantee you, if it was even 5 years ago, Atlus would have been crucified for retaining that "sexist" armor. But now, it's just a handful of sad people on youtube comments whining. Because the market showed, those people weren't ever customers to begin with and making changes to appeal to them isn't worth it.
 

misseva88

Member
Jul 5, 2017
196
592
I don't think characters even need to be written with "flaws" (I'll note, I think your and my definition of flaw is very different. I don't consider Batman's no killing policy to be a "flaw", but rather part of his set of morals. Joker tests his morals, but that's an assessment of his character. A flaw, to me, is how Batman constantly alienates his team members, family, and friends due to his paranoia and need for control. Situations like "Tower of Babel" are caused because of Batman's arrogance). But for compelling story writing, writers need to execute on some kind of narrative. Perfect example of this is Huck by Mark Millar. Huck is basically perfect. Kind, handsome, super strong, seemingly indestructible... The story doesn't try to bring him down, or say that he's wrong for trying to help people. In many ways, it takes the "with great power" line, but rather than treating it like a burden or shackle, treats it ultimately as a privilege. Huck gets to do good in the world. It's a responsibility, but it can also be the reward. Angst is easy. But are writers talented enough to have a theme, and execute on that theme? That's more challenging.
You're right, I don't mean 'flaw' in the traditional sense of the word. I do mean it as a bit of an edge on a perfectly straight ball that rolls down a hill. The flaw in that ball makes for the ball to not roll straight down, pick holes in some parts of the grass or even go in a curve when rolling down. They're the interesting aspects that make a character unique and easier to play off of. For Batmans refusal to kill it's what makes him both a hero, but also makes his solutions temporary in the corrupt Gotham. Or for your Batmans desire to always be in control of every situation: it's what makes him a great superhero too. He is able to defeat his opponents thanks to his own intelligence and perseverance. Alternatively, refusing to give up when down can lead to a Robin feeling useless and open to doubt and ultimately betrayal.

Moffat might have had too many long arc mysteries, but at least 1) they were integrated into the season, even if the payoff was often lack luster, and 2) The man understood character. 11 and 12 and their companions were all distinct personalities with their individual goals, ambitions, flaws, and arcs. I'd take 10 more seasons run by Moffat before ever wishing even 1 more episode by Chibnall. Also, I'm gonna say it: RTD is overrated. Completely wasted the Toymaker, and seems to always come back to the same trick: Sad Doctor. The man can plot an arc, I'll give him that, but he's got the subtlety of a fucking wrecking ball.
I do appreciate the idea of leaving a thread in a story of an eternal time traveller, leaving an option for future show runners to return to your story, so that's all fine. He did try and look back into Who to grasp some of those threads from other stories to serve as a nice easter egg for fans.
But to me the problem with mystery boxes that the payoffs are lacklustre, as if they weren't really planned ahead. To me that's what Moffats mysteries often were. Clara being the impossible girl still doesn't make sense to me. She's important to the Doctor's life and all, how did she end up in that Dalek?

Moffat was at his best when he kept to character driven stories. He had a tendency to make the stakes way too big. To me, the best Modern Who episode is The Girl In The Fireplace. The universe wasn't at stake, it was a beautiful stand-alone episode (with dare I say, a very pretty Madame de Pompadour) with a personal drama.

I'm not sure if you've watched BBC's Sherlock, but how did Sherlock survive The Reichenbach Fall? We got an other Moffat special there. No answer, just a bunch of in-universe theorising how it happened (mocking them) and not a word on the topic after that.

As for RTD: today's RTD is completely different than 2005's. He focused on storytelling in the first season, now he's obsessed with the not so subtle messaging. He's also been vocal about it; only a complete eejit would equate Davos to all wheelchair users and as such equate all wheelchair users with evil. What an eejit. Bigeneration? Whatever.
His first run was fun, say what you will of 10 and Donna, that wasn't the sad Doctor. It was the most fun she show has been, that fun is long gone now.

Nah, if it were just Bad Robot, than we wouldn't also be having such hack writing in books, comics, musicals, video games... Like, from a thematic standpoint, Dear Evan Hansen is horrifying and Evan is absolutely a monster. But the fans somehow completely missed that until the movie adaptation cast a 30 something year old as a high schooler and drew more attention to the creepiness of the entire situation. Five Nights at Freddy's, both the games and the movie, are only "complicated" because its audience seems to have the reading comprehension of a third grader, while the only adults playing in that space do the whole "I came up with a theory, and am cherry picking evidence that supports this to form a coherent video".
I did specifically limit myself to Hollywood failures. ;)

I sort of agree. I absolutely think it's the job of the rights holder to hire the right people for the project. When you hire people that have no interest and more importantly, no understanding of the material, you get shit like The Witcher. But at the same time, most things can't be adapted 1 to 1 and require some amount of streamlining to work in the new medium. And also, if a writer had any talent, then the new story can be compelling. The Boys is a great example. Absolute garbage comic, narratively speaking, with shallow characters and basically no intrigue. The show is compelling because even if the most loyal fans get pissed that XYZ character was changed, the show itself still has a strong narrative.

Or you have talented writers like Jonathan Hickman that didn't know much about the Fantastic Four, but read basically every comic after he got hired, and then wrote one of the most amazing runs of Fantastic Four ever.

The executives are a problem, but just as much is writer ego. There's so much trying to "make their mark". And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Nolan should explore different aspects of Batman than Burton or Bruce Timm. You don't need to necessarily love the source material yourself, but if you don't even understand it, that's the problem. Generally, I think Executives are just trend chasers: "Oh, that multiverse film did well, let's all do a multiverse movie. This movie has a quirky non-powered side kick, then our movie needs to have a quirky non-powered side kick..." The reason why I always refer to these writers as hacks, is because if they had even a modicum of talent, they could navigate the studio requirements, while at least delivering a solid plot. Instead, it seems they're more interested in telling "their" story first and foremost, and then often the studio requirement isn't integrated and thus sticks out even more in an already shit story.
Look, let's be real. #MeToo started off as a noble initiative to rid Hollywood of just a handful of perverts, which later escalated when willing actresses who were no longer young and pretty felt a desire to prolong their careers and decided to become professional victims. In other words, MeToo became a power grab. Mrs. JJ Abrams used and abused that power grab to gain more power. A bunch of talentless women got promoted beyond their skills and they got obsessed with DEI. It's the checkbox culture. The culture has changed. That changed culture meant a deviation from an emphasis on good storytelling. Heck, it meant good storytellers aren't even employed by some of the big companies anymore. published an open letter by a veteran Hollywood writer. Apparently Male + Pale = Stale is a common saying in the executives offices these days. People don't even get a meeting anymore because of the colour of their skin.
Hollywood is no longer a business of merit, it's a segregated racist business that pretends it has good intentions.

And it often doesn't even have that. Funny you mention The Witcher. Beau DeMayo was a writer on that show and he's stated that writers for that show "actively mocked the source material". So the failure of that show goes further than the writers not understanding that show or facing issues translating the story from the text to the small screen. (Something the casting director definitely didn't do).
The people responsible for that shitshow merely saw the popular Polish ripoff of Elric of Melnibone as a platform to tell their modern day story for the non-existent modern audience. It was a gig for lazy writers who got in a position their talent didn't warrant, because they happened to tick the right boxes. Well, apart from the 'talent' box obviously.

Being a fan of a character doesn't make one a good storyteller for that character. But a fan generally does understand that character and that's where most Hollywood folk already miss. There's a reason many fans don't want to see their favourite characters be adapted to the small or big screen today. Hollywood is a long way from deserving our trust of handling it well.
I don't think anyone really likes multiverse stories. There are no stakes with them, which is exactly why they were invented in the first place: to reset a universe after it got messed up. They're no interesting storytelling mechanisms, so of course the non-fans who currently run Marvel Entertainment like it. They're the kind of people who feel the stakes should always be bigger as that equates for more excitement, whereas the opposite is true. After a big potential world-ending event the focus should be on the street level heroes, not the outer-world threats. But nah, Marvel wanted an other skybeam and inconsequential stories. As long as there was a woman leading the guy around, because that's the main studio note.


I think you misunderstood me. Young readers don't want to see sex on screen, because that ruins their shipping. They especially don't want to see characters in relationships because that ruins their head-canon couples. Look at the reactions to Voltron Legendary Defender and all the stupid arguments over character ages rather than even for a second looking at the character arcs and asking "are these characters even romatically involved by any on screen evidence"? Look at the Hamilton fanfics that are shipping these interpretations of historical figures because... reasons? The vitriol of Genji and Mercy getting romantic voicelines in Overwatch because fans were upset that this ruined their Hanzo-Genji and Mercy-Pharah ships.

Don't get me wrong: yaoi shippers have been there for years. But with the internet, they've found more like minded individuals to be loud enough that writers have to actually respond to their insanity.

I don't think it's transformation kinks specifically, rather that a lot of nonsense was treating "sexy" as "sexist". So for a while (and to an extent even now), there's been a downplaying of sexually charged content. But it's not like that market vanished. It's just an underserved market. So in the last year, we've had an uptick as content creators test the waters and determine: yes, sex still sells. Look, Baldur's Gate 3 is absolutely a great game. It's made even better by having some hot characters. Heck, Persona 3 Reload just came out and kept the High-Cut Armor. I guarantee you, if it was even 5 years ago, Atlus would have been crucified for retaining that "sexist" armor. But now, it's just a handful of sad people on youtube comments whining. Because the market showed, those people weren't ever customers to begin with and making changes to appeal to them isn't worth it.
I don't think the main issue people had with Game of Thrones season 8 was that the Jon-Dany shippers were proven right. The first season of Reacher made people happy, in part because Roscoe and Reacher did end up having naughty-time with each other.

When actors play their roles right, the shippers will get their way when two main characters do end up together. The problem is there hardly is any romance in films these days, leaving shippers (who clearly want some) with some weird fantasy about Professor X and Magneto.
But fact of the matter is that in today's Hollywood, executives don't want to define characters by their love for an other person. That negates their own agency. So we're not getting romance anymore. And if we do, the woman is in control of the situation. That's modern day Hollywood. But luckily it seems that trend is ending soon.




Aaanyway, to circle back to what started this all: a forced feminisation story. To quote Newton's Third Law: for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction. If the main character really doesn't want to be feminised (and that appears to be the case in K-Pop Idol), there has to be a lot of force used on him. When more force is used, I feel the one using that force has to be more evil. Otherwise there's a gap of logic. It's like Melissa doesn't really want to pick sides in this story and that is a bit of a narrative issue.
 

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
289
915
I'm not sure if you've watched BBC's Sherlock, but how did Sherlock survive The Reichenbach Fall? We got an other Moffat special there. No answer, just a bunch of in-universe theorising how it happened (mocking them) and not a word on the topic after that.

As for RTD: today's RTD is completely different than 2005's. He focused on storytelling in the first season, now he's obsessed with the not so subtle messaging. He's also been vocal about it; only a complete eejit would equate Davos to all wheelchair users and as such equate all wheelchair users with evil. What an eejit. Bigeneration? Whatever.
His first run was fun, say what you will of 10 and Donna, that wasn't the sad Doctor. It was the most fun she show has been, that fun is long gone now.
I bailed after a few episodes because it did something that people that don't get Sherlock always do, which is make Holmes a condescending asshole. Is he in his own world, ten steps ahead, eccentric, and at times a pain? Absolutely. But in the first chapter of the first story, Watson notes quite clearly that despite Holmes doing annoying shit like playing violin at obscene hours, he also would make sure to play some of Watson's favorite songs, showing his having a personable side. Sherlock self describing himself as a sociopath is such an insane take on the character it really annoyed the hell out of me. That, and the fandom was insufferable with their constant Watson, Holmes and/or Moriarty shipping.

RTD was just as much of a social commentator back then. Aliens of London/WW3 was in season 1 and was clearly referencing 9/11 and making jabs at Bush and his administration. And Davies certainly introduced and promoted gay characters in all his works, where as even the virtue signaling Chibnall danced around that topic. I think a lot of it came off as more subtle back then because 1) a lot of the commentary can organically come up in those types of stories since the allegory works directly. And 2) Frankly, a lot of fans were younger back then and simply didn't seem to pick up on them.

When actors play their roles right, the shippers will get their way when two main characters do end up together. The problem is there hardly is any romance in films these days, leaving shippers (who clearly want some) with some weird fantasy about Professor X and Magneto.
I don't think I agree. Fangirls love shipping attractive male characters with each other for the same reason dudes fantasize about two women making out. Before the purge, Tumblr would frequently melt down whenever a main character entered a romantic (straight) relationship, usually with accusations of the writers being "homophobic" for not delivering on the "clear" chemistry the main character had with his best friend/rival. Like, thinking back to my childhood, you had games like FF7, with date mechanics and clear romance options. But for the yaoi fangirls, it was all about that Cloud/Sephiroth.

Honestly, I wish there was less romance in films/tv series. Will-They-Won't-They is freaking boring and exhausing to sit through, and it's not like they can actually show any actual sex, so at best the pay off is "oh, that couple is cute together". My argument isn't that we should be trying to satisfy shippers. It's the opposite: we should be actively ignoring them. Instead, you have situations like in Doctor Who, where they listened to the shippers and somehow we're supposed to believe that Thirteen and Yasmine have feelings for each other.

Like, some of the absolute best television and movies has no romance. And conversely, you have shows and movies that were made worse because the romance distracted from the plot. You can literally correlate how much worse the Flash tv series got relative to how much they focused on the Iris-Barry relationship. Same with Arrow and the Oliver-Felicity romance.

I'd go so far to say, just like when people insert their own commentary which comes at the expense of the plot, a lot of romance is inserted at the expense of plot. In the best case scenario, you can compensate by developing the characters further. But often, that's not what happens.

Otherwise there's a gap of logic. It's like Melissa doesn't really want to pick sides in this story and that is a bit of a narrative issue.
Yeah, I can't tell if this is because she doesn't really want to commit and write herself into a hole, or is it that her patrons are resistive to certain things. Seemed like that was certainly happening with Sapphirefoxx, where a handful of really loud supporters seemed to steer what stories were told. Or maybe, she's squemish/uncomfortable truly going darker? Thinking back, if something is forced, she often does brainwashing or "the femmed character ends up liking it" to avoid having real forced feminization.

I honestly hadn't considered that before but the more I think about it, that would actually explain a lot.
 

Marschall1

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By the way, should we move this thread to allporncomix? That seems to have become the accepted 8muses replacement
 

LadyBoyJay

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Jun 12, 2017
315
1,034
By the way, should we move this thread to allporncomix? That seems to have become the accepted 8muses replacement
At this moment, APC has 87 members online. F95 currently has 23,647 members online. Also, the Melissa thread on APC (started on December 9th) has 93 replies. This thread was started on December 3rd and has 412 replies. In my opinion, this is a better place to have discussions.

Batman wants peace in Gotham and won't kill to get it, yet there's the Joker who wants chaos and mayhem and will only be stopped when he's dead, for example.
For Batmans refusal to kill it's what makes him both a hero, but also makes his solutions temporary in the corrupt Gotham.
Batman doesn't kill people... he just puts them to sleep. :ROFLMAO:
 
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misseva88

Member
Jul 5, 2017
196
592
RTD was just as much of a social commentator back then. Aliens of London/WW3 was in season 1 and was clearly referencing 9/11 and making jabs at Bush and his administration. And Davies certainly introduced and promoted gay characters in all his works, where as even the virtue signaling Chibnall danced around that topic. I think a lot of it came off as more subtle back then because 1) a lot of the commentary can organically come up in those types of stories since the allegory works directly. And 2) Frankly, a lot of fans were younger back then and simply didn't seem to pick up on them.
The first season of Who wasn't as America focused as you may give it credit for. World War 2 is a popular mine of inspiration for modern storytellers, especially in Europe. The effects are still very relevant and felt today. Most years European countries send at least one World War 2 related film as their submission for the Academy Awards. In England that trauma is much more felt than 9/11 is in the US, even for people born well after the war ended.
That's not to say stories set in WW2 are necessarily about WW2, but they don't always offer an insight an other relative recent event in a different country.

Barrowman is an open bisexual man and was already known as such when he portrayed Captain Jack. So RTD leaned into it and it was done well. Torchwood was hit and miss but it was at least thought provocative rather than telling the audience what to think. The first Chibnall episode with Rosa Parks? I was out straight away.

If you're suggesting there should never be any social commentary, I disagree. I'm fine with social commentary as a well hidden mechanism, but it reminds me of the South Park episode where Randy wants to write a musical after finding out the subtext makes his wife horny, so he just writes an explicit one about blowjobs which went too far as it exposed the agenda.
JRR Tolkien may hate allegory, but it's pretty much always been in Hollywood stories.

High Noon was made by the commie faction in Hollywood as an analogy where a commie stands up against the House Un-American Committee. Hilariously the audience interpreted it as the complete opposite: an example of individualism, after which the writer disavowed his own film.
The anti-commie faction was lead by John Wayne, he and Howard Hawks made Rio Bravo as a response to High Noon. On The Waterfront is an other example of a film with a clear allegory to the commies who rejected Eli Kazans confession for the HUAC.

All three films are excellent, even without the audience today knowing about the issues they're commentating (or propagandising) on. The social commentary isn't part of the marketing and there's an interesting enough story that can be seen while rejecting the social commentary behind it. So even though by today's standards On The Waterfront wouldn't be subtle, it's still subtle enough for people to enjoy that film without knowing Kazan's story.
Or heck, Godzilla is a representation for the nuclear bomb. I'm sure most people in the West never knew that, but that didn't stop them from enjoying a Godzilla film.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying there's always been subtext in films. It doesn't automatically disqualify a film from being good, although the commie rags did reject High Noon after learning the anti-commies took a different interpretation than their rejection. Modern movie critics do like to pretend a film or tv show not alligning to their politics is automatically bad, but I'd like to look down on those dumbasses as the PR agents they are. That's not how I judge stories.


Like, some of the absolute best television and movies has no romance. And conversely, you have shows and movies that were made worse because the romance distracted from the plot. You can literally correlate how much worse the Flash tv series got relative to how much they focused on the Iris-Barry relationship. Same with Arrow and the Oliver-Felicity romance.

I'd go so far to say, just like when people insert their own commentary which comes at the expense of the plot, a lot of romance is inserted at the expense of plot. In the best case scenario, you can compensate by developing the characters further. But often, that's not what happens.
Was the Flash tv show ever good though? :p Bad tv is bad tv, with or without romance. TV romances are slightly different, as a four-season tv show of 10 hours a season is different to fill than a 2 hour film. The getting together of a romance is (to me) often more interesting than the new couple exploration. It's a generalisation of course, but it's a thing films specifically are avoiding. Men and women are best friends. That's what Hollywood wants to show. Of course women are equally physically strong as the men and often more capable.
In 1883 the romance story with Elsa adds so much depth to that show. Without the romance stuff the show would have still been interesting for the Trail and seeing the human drama involved in it, but the Elsa romance adds a story of two loving parents allowing their daughter to find herself and spread her wings with a man she's met on the Trail.

Or let's take The Transformers, the first one. I think that film would work less than it does (I actually like it) if Sam didn't end up with Mikaela and instead they were platonic friends at the end of the film.
Or Arcane. The romance between Caitlyn and Vi is very interesting. I'd argue it's very heavily implied and obvious, but it's not explicit on screen. The romance already works for me, but it would be wrong for them to back off of it in season 2.

Yeah, I can't tell if this is because she doesn't really want to commit and write herself into a hole, or is it that her patrons are resistive to certain things. Seemed like that was certainly happening with Sapphirefoxx, where a handful of really loud supporters seemed to steer what stories were told. Or maybe, she's squemish/uncomfortable truly going darker? Thinking back, if something is forced, she often does brainwashing or "the femmed character ends up liking it" to avoid having real forced feminization.

I honestly hadn't considered that before but the more I think about it, that would actually explain a lot.
I think Melissa's success with Mirror kind of broke her. The mystery in Mirror is something that clearly works, it's why topics for her work are very popular on forums like this. She's trying to replicate that success by not answering questions, to use flashbacks later on and milk the length of the story, benefitting from the Patreon model.
 
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Thalantyr

Member
Dec 1, 2023
403
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If the main character really doesn't want to be feminised (and that appears to be the case in K-Pop Idol), there has to be a lot of force used on him. When more force is used, I feel the one using that force has to be more evil. Otherwise there's a gap of logic. It's like Melissa doesn't really want to pick sides in this story and that is a bit of a narrative issue.
Yeah, I can't tell if this is because she doesn't really want to commit and write herself into a hole, or is it that her patrons are resistive to certain things. Seemed like that was certainly happening with Sapphirefoxx, where a handful of really loud supporters seemed to steer what stories were told. Or maybe, she's squemish/uncomfortable truly going darker? Thinking back, if something is forced, she often does brainwashing or "the femmed character ends up liking it" to avoid having real forced feminization.

I honestly hadn't considered that before but the more I think about it, that would actually explain a lot.
If Melissa is really worried about going too dark, then she may be writing the wrong kind of stories. There are plenty of ways to do a forced fem story with a truly resistant protagonist without having any villain at all. The feminization could be caused by an accident, or some disembodied ancient curse, or maybe the laws of a dystopian society. It doesn't need to always be "tricked into an impossible situation by a friend/girlfriend/family member", which relies more heavily on a villain. You can also mitigate the complaints from people who hate dark stories just by ensuring that the villain gets their comeuppance at the end, and a happy ending for the protagonist certainly doesn't hurt.

I think Melissa's success with Mirror kind of broke her. The mystery in Mirror is something that clearly works, it's why topics for her work are very popular on forums like this. She's trying to replicate that success by not answering questions, to use flashbacks later on and milk the length of the story, benefitting from the Patreon model.
I bet this is the true answer. It's pretty easy to see from the volume and passion of Patreon comments that the mystery in AM is working very well. It would almost be stupid to not try to replicate that in the next story.
 

rebirth095

Member
Jul 25, 2021
289
915
The first season of Who wasn't as America focused as you may give it credit for. World War 2 is a popular mine of inspiration for modern storytellers, especially in Europe. The effects are still very relevant and felt today. Most years European countries send at least one World War 2 related film as their submission for the Academy Awards. In England that trauma is much more felt than 9/11 is in the US, even for people born well after the war ended.
That's not to say stories set in WW2 are necessarily about WW2, but they don't always offer an insight an other relative recent event in a different country.
...? I'm talking about the two parter titled Aliens of London and World War Three in the first season, where the plot is that aliens stage a terrorist attack on an iconic building, fake evidence of WMDs to start a war with the actual goals of getting fuel. I mean... I think the parallels are pretty clear to 9/11 and the Iraq war. They even have the "45 seconds" line, clearly referencing Tony Blair's 45 minutes until Iraq launches nukes quote.

I'm not against social commentary. I'm just saying that RTD's never been subtle about his social commentary. It's just that in the past, the plots of the episodes had that commentary as part of the plot.

I don't think social commentary needs to be hidden: But if you're gonna do it, do it right by actually having it as part of the plot, and explore what that commentary actually means. Rosa isn't bad because it has the stance of "racism is bad". Rosa is a bad episode because it doesn't actually tackle the problem. Ryan complains (correctly), that it's not like Rosa Parks takes a stand, and racism gets defeated. He notes that he gets stopped by the police more often than his white mates. A competent story would have Yasmin, who is a police officer, have some perspectives. Nope, instead she goes "Not this police officer" and that's it. The Boys did this way better with the episode where Stormfront leverages her popularity to seed bigotry, getting the most vulnerable and most disenfranchised people to act out. It's not subtle, but it's so well integrated into the plot, characterization, and story, that it's not only entirely believable, but chilling. A great story with social commentary either let's us learn something new (or learn about some nuances), gives us scenarios to reframe how we thought about things, or at least has a message to tell that we can discuss and think about. Chibnal repeatedly failed at that.

Just a point of accuracy: Both John Barrowman and RTD are gay, not bisexual. Captain Jack was introduced as bisexual, although all his on screen romances were homosexual.

To be fair, Western audiences don't get that the 1954 Godzilla was a metaphor for the nuclear bomb, because most of them aren't familiar with that film. A lot of the Showa and Heisei era films had moved away from that metaphor and depiction of Godzilla, ironically mirroring the Japanese sentiment towards nuclear power as well. So a lot of Western exposure to Godzilla was as silly monster films. It's funny that while Japan has looped back around (with Shin Godzilla a commentary on the ineffectiveness of the Japanese government during the Fukushima accident, and Minus One bringing it back to the original metaphor), Legendary's Godzilla films are way more like the Showa era films, with monsters teaming up to fight other monsters.

Was the Flash tv show ever good though?
Yeah, I'll fight anyone and defend season 1 and most of 2. :LOL:

Or let's take The Transformers, the first one. I think that film would work less than it does (I actually like it) if Sam didn't end up with Mikaela and instead they were platonic friends at the end of the film.
As a G1 Transformers fan, while teenage me appreciated the hotness that is/was Megan Fox, the movie would have been better without her in the film, and instead had more robots. Or if not more robots, than more screentime focused on the robots we did have. There are certainly stories where romance can enhance the plot. The Dark Knight works better because of the feelings Bruce has towards Rachael. But just as often, stories don't need it. Honestly, I think the only reason you're seeing more "female as best friends" is because for representation, instead of stories where you had a Male lead and his Male best friend, to have more female representation, you're getting more Male lead and his Female best friend.

I bet this is the true answer. It's pretty easy to see from the volume and passion of Patreon comments that the mystery in AM is working very well. It would almost be stupid to not try to replicate that in the next story.
Are people on the Patreon speculating on Kpop at all though? Like, the motivations aren't being shown, but it's not like that's resulted in people feeling there's a mystery worth speculating on... is there? Totally agree that engagement is a great moltivator to replicate previous success. But it seems the "problems" with kpop are more similar to issues that have come up before in stories like Journey to the Unknown and Not so Temporary Roomate (minimal characterization, complete pushover of a main character, etc).
 

Thalantyr

Member
Dec 1, 2023
403
1,407
Are people on the Patreon speculating on Kpop at all though? Like, the motivations aren't being shown, but it's not like that's resulted in people feeling there's a mystery worth speculating on... is there? Totally agree that engagement is a great moltivator to replicate previous success. But it seems the "problems" with kpop are more similar to issues that have come up before in stories like Journey to the Unknown and Not so Temporary Roomate (minimal characterization, complete pushover of a main character, etc).
Not from what I've seen. The people who currently seem to be enjoying Kpop are fixated on the Korean cultural aspects. Discord is full of links to kpop songs and gifs of idols dancing. But that doesn't necessarily mean that generating speculation is not Melissa's goal- it's just that she hasn't been successful with this particular story yet. Though ironically, we are now speculating about speculation... perhaps that was Melissa's evil plan all along!
 

Oled65cxpua

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Dec 2, 2023
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I've check allporncomix out a bit but it feels like half the comments are asking about "upload?" or "anyone got this, from that creator?" The discussion and speculation part the people on 8muses had isn't really there.
Don't even bother. The whole site is like that.


I think Melissa's success with Mirror kind of broke her. The mystery in Mirror is something that clearly works, it's why topics for her work are very popular on forums like this. She's trying to replicate that success by not answering questions, to use flashbacks later on and milk the length of the story, benefitting from the Patreon model.
I've lost interest in Melissa for this reason. Every episode is 2 weeks apart and consists of nothing but flashbacks-within-flashbacks advancing plot exposition. It's so clear Melissa's just milking her subscribers for every cent at this point. It's gotten so extreme that I've just completely lost interest in Melissa's work altogether. There are much better artists in this genre, like LilTKit for example.
 
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alienhead

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Dec 2, 2023
29
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I suspect it will take time for APC to settle. More content and likely more mods will limit the "update" spam. That said, uploading to APC is much easier for amateurs like me. :)

As for Aphrodite's Mirror, at one point MelissaN did remark that they developed the story sometime before they were able to bring it to fruition. Also, that it would be some 30+ chapters. There have been very short chapters and currently, very long chapters so difficult to judge the completion time.
 
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