Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-12-24] [Melissa N.]

[rebirth095]

Oh, that's an interesting thought. Maybe part of Angeliki's role was to learn about Nikos' preferences, and Joanna is a trans woman (recently post-op when we first meet her) they hired for to seduce him. Although the "unexpectedly" doesn't quite fit, since Angeliki knew about Elena several days before the dinner (having helped transform him at the salon).

Unrelated to Joanna, the fact that Joel has been working with Angeliki much better explains how he was so easily able to play along with his glasses being broken and Elena not quite looking convincing as a woman despite his perfectly good eyesight. An older theory explained this as Nikos and Joel working together, but now it works even if Nikos is innocent.

Honestly, I don't even think Joanna needs to be trans herself: if that's Nikos' preference, Joanna could literally just lie, given how apparently advanced the medical tech is in this setting. But that's a minor thing.

You're right, although if I had to split hairs, the unexpected part can be the fact that Nikos has decided to feminize his nephew-in-law. I'm pretty sure that wasn't part of the original plan

What sticks out to me still is that the Sisters seem to have bought into the cover story completely. At this point, if they truly believe the story they told Elena, then they believe that Joel was shot and wants to turn on Toska and is willingly feminizing to hide.

We know that Seferi shot Joel, and I'm kind of shocked that Joel has this much autonomy right now. Makes me wonder what happened in those weeks that we skipped and how did Seferi convince Joel to behave...

 

[Thalantyr]

Makes me wonder what happened in those weeks that we skipped and how did Seferi convince Joel to behave...

I think whatever prize Joel was promised at the end of this caper is probably enough to motivate him to cooperate. Presumably Seferi told him he can either help the plan succeed as Joelle, or walk away (as a woman) with nothing. Perhaps he also promised to pay to reverse the sex change, if Joel believes that is possible. And for all we know Joel may be planning to double-cross Seferi as soon as he gets what he wants.

 

[Stevedore100]

This part has me flummoxed; all your ideas are really good in trying to make sense of what doesn't seem to make much sense.
Angeliki being around 3 years- as mentioned this obviously predates badly Andrew/Elena stuff. Dues it also predate Toska? Was the original target Nikos and his hotel? Then Toska got involved and their plans went south and had to change - how Joel really got to work with Toska is still a mystery (I don't buy the whole "forced to work for Toska" explanation). Or, and this just occurred to me, what if Angeliki is a deep cover cop? There to protect Nikos from Toska, or Seferi, orJoel? Filip could also be an undercover cop.

Since it now appears Seferi and co knew about Elena from the start, what are they trying to accomplish with her? We're they just trying to scare Andrew away as he had got in their way? Showing him his picture and saying they are looking for him supports that, but it seems if they really wanted to scare him off, why not just tell Andrew that they know he faking it and threaten to expose him?

The sisters -;they seem half in half out. The know what has happened to Joel, but they seem to think it is just to hide him for awhile, which is obviously not the idea here. I get the feeling they are just mostly useful idiots to the bad guys, not actively involved.

As to what the plan is with Joel....do they plan to try and ruin Toska (who supposedly has political hopes) by compromising him with a sex video? I really have no idea.

 

[Thalantyr]

Angeliki being around 3 years- as mentioned this obviously predates badly Andrew/Elena stuff. Dues it also predate Toska? Was the original target Nikos and his hotel? Then Toska got involved and their plans went south and had to change - how Joel really got to work with Toska is still a mystery (I don't buy the whole "forced to work for Toska" explanation).

Hmm... well let's analyze the timeline. I left most of this off my original timeline because it didn't seem important at the time, but now...

22 years ago, Seferi was sentenced to 20 years in prison. Elena says "at least twenty years ago" and Seferi clarifies "twenty-two years, to be more precise." In hindsight, that seems oddly specific if it's not important:


So this means Seferi was released from prison 2 years ago. These pages also mention that Seferi's family suffered from Toska's wrath, including his wife and brother, and of course we know Joel is Seferi's nephew so presumably the brother that the news article mentions is Joel's father. Joel himself would have been a minor 22 years ago. Too young to be imprisoned, but perhaps he had to be placed in foster care and/or suffered in other ways with his father in prison. But this is also why I'm somewhat inclined to believe what Joel told Elena about being forced to work for Toska, since we already know that Toska had been vindictively tormenting Seferi's family, and we saw Toska treating Joel like shit during that first dinner.

Perhaps Joel and Angeliki have been laying the groundwork for revenge on Toska for a year before Seferi was released. Presumably Angeliki got involved when she and Joel were still together and she remained involved after they broke up in order to collect her share of the money or whatever they're getting out of this.

All that being said, I have no idea how the Samaras family got entangled in this plan. I'm sure we'll learn more about that before the end.

Edit: I have now updated the full timeline.

 

[Stevedore100]

Hmm... well let's analyze the timeline. I left most of this off my original timeline because it didn't seem important at the time, but now...

22 years ago, Seferi was sentenced to 20 years in prison. Elena says "at least twenty years ago" and Seferi clarifies "twenty-two years, to be more precise." In hindsight, that seems oddly specific if it's not important:
View attachment 4306937 View attachment 4306938

So this means Seferi was released from prison 2 years ago. These pages also mention that Seferi's family suffered from Toska's wrath, including his wife and brother, and of course we know Joel is Seferi's nephew so presumably the brother that the news article mentions is Joel's father. Joel himself would have been a minor 22 years ago. Too young to be imprisoned, but perhaps he had to be placed in foster care and/or suffered in other ways with his father in prison. But this is also why I'm somewhat inclined to believe what Joel told Elena about being forced to work for Toska, since we already know that Toska had been vindictively tormenting Seferi's family, and we saw Toska treating Joel like shit during that first dinner.

Perhaps Joel and Angeliki have been laying the groundwork for revenge on Toska for a year before Seferi was released. Presumably Angeliki got involved when she and Joel were still together and she remained involved after they broke up in order to collect her share of the money or whatever they're getting out of this.

All that being said, I have no idea how the Samaras family got entangled in this plan. I'm sure we'll learn more about that before the end.

That line of thought s plausible - I just get hung up on how Toska could force Joel to work for him all these years later and after extracting his pound if fresh from the family - what's left to hold over them at this point? And then leave him alone for months to live the good life with Nikos at the resort? It is apparent that he doesn't think much of Joel, so the forced servitude story may hold up.

And since this is now "2 weeks later" I'm curious what Elena is doing now that Marina has jumped ship. Picking out the hottest wedding dress?

 

[Thalantyr]

And since this is now "2 weeks later" I'm curious what Elena is doing now that Marina has jumped ship. Picking out the hottest wedding dress?

Based on her past behavior, I would guess having lots of sex with Nikos.

 

[Alicia Mae]

Oh duh. Of course Joel is in on it. I think I was too distracted by his new assets to realize lol.

It seems obvious they’re trying to control Elena into seducing Nikos. Angeliki stages Gjoka’s intrusion, plants the fake ID, and starts gaslighting Elena about how feminine she is. Then she gets Elena dressed in a way that they know Nikos will drool over. But then what? Blackmail since they know they’re not a “proper” husband and wife? Then where does Joel come in? And who is he seducing?

 

[Thalantyr]

Oh duh. Of course Joel is in on it. I think I was too distracted by his new assets to realize lol.

It seems obvious they’re trying to control Elena into seducing Nikos. Angeliki stages Gjoka’s intrusion, plants the fake ID, and starts gaslighting Elena about how feminine she is. Then she gets Elena dressed in a way that they know Nikos will drool over. But then what? Blackmail since they know they’re not a “proper” husband and wife? Then where does Joel come in? And who is he seducing?

I feel like the primary target of this scheme has to be Toska, not Nikos, right? The Seferi faction (which includes Seferi, Joel, and Angeliki) has been planning this for at least 3 years. And 3 years ago, they all had major beef with Toska and seemingly no connection to the Samaras family whatsoever. As far as I can tell, they're just using the Samaras family to lure Toska into a trap. They want revenge and/or money, and Toska also has way more money than Nikos so he's a more tempting target to begin with even if they didn't want revenge. Plus, 3 years ago they had no way of predicting that Andrew and Marina would visit on their honeymoon. They weren't even engaged yet. They may not have even met yet.

 

[Stevedore100]

I think there's a chance that the Risks business is a head fake - this is all based on Seferi's claim that Toska framed him for the embezzlement. And Gjoka gets used as the scary guy who doesn't actually do anything - his appearance at the salon- if Angeliki is in in this, did she arrange for him to show up to scare Elena?
Perhaps the plan is to mess up the deal btwn Nikos and Toska to get at Nikos?

 

[misseva88]

Part 12 of A Sweet Change was added to the OP a few days ago. Today the latest update to Aphrodite's Mirror is also included to the first post. It's the second part of chapter 25 and it can also be found

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.

Merry Christmas to those that celebrate it.

 

[Thalantyr]

A bit of an odd update. Kinda feels like Melissa might be plugging up plot holes in response to criticism about why certain characters (who don't need glasses) haven't noticed changes in Elena's appearance. Or perhaps this scene was planned all along. I'm still not entirely sure why Mr. Angelos exists in the story at all. It seems like Eva and Sofia could have taken on the role of party planners, but maybe Angelos was introduced alongside Dimitra and Stefanos for a specific reason. In any case, this seems to indicate that Dimitra and Stefanos are not in on the scheme.

 

[misseva88]

A bit of an odd update. Kinda feels like Melissa might be plugging up plot holes in response to criticism about why certain characters (who don't need glasses) haven't noticed changes in Elena's appearance. Or perhaps this scene was planned all along. I'm still not entirely sure why Mr. Angelos exists in the story at all. It seems like Eva and Sofia could have taken on the role of party planners, but maybe Angelos was introduced alongside Dimitra and Stefanos for a specific reason. In any case, this seems to indicate that Dimitra and Stefanos are not in on the scheme.

There's not a hint in the story Mr. Angelos knows Elena isn't who she says she is when he first meets her. I thought the purpose of that scene in the beginning of the story was to introduce the romance between Eva and Stefanos. But to have him without any hint, even as minute as a stumble or a hesitation, clock Elena as a fraud? Yeah, that's odd.

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Not that it probably matters, but in Greek mythology, Iris is a special messenger for Hera, who does have an interesting connection to Aphrodite.

 

[rebirth095]

A bit of an odd update. Kinda feels like Melissa might be plugging up plot holes in response to criticism about why certain characters (who don't need glasses) haven't noticed changes in Elena's appearance. Or perhaps this scene was planned all along. I'm still not entirely sure why Mr. Angelos exists in the story at all. It seems like Eva and Sofia could have taken on the role of party planners, but maybe Angelos was introduced alongside Dimitra and Stefanos for a specific reason. In any case, this seems to indicate that Dimitra and Stefanos are not in on the scheme.

Taking a more "meta" analysis stance, (and this assumes Melissa has read criticisms regarding the "perception filter" people have regarding Elena's changing appearance): I don't necessarily think Angelos is a retcon, but I do think the explicit: "I don't think XYZ people noticed" IS meant to head off criticisms as I think most readers would find it odd that some people notice and other's didn't back then.

I feel like drawing it to attention almost reinforces that this new development was preplanned. In the sense that if Mr. Angelos doesn't have a role to play, there's absolutely no reason to draw attention to the fact that Elena wasn't passable back then. The much more simple idea that would be believable is that while in-universe, Elena was passable enough back then, and people are aware she went to the hospital, so having some facial surgery and looking different isn't really that odd.

Turning the easier explanation into a much more difficult one (Now the explanation has become: Andrew wasn't really that passable and a crossdresser immediately identified Andrew as such within a glance, but the other people there who were up close and talking were just too preoccupied to notice) just makes the story telling a bit more clunky. It's not completely unbelievable, but I do think it's a little bit of a stretch. I mean, I'm a crossdresser and I would never presume someone is trans: there are plenty of manish/boyish looking cis-women out there. Plenty of women with narrower hips or larger feet. That said, it's not like I haven't seen tells just because of my own experiences. But still... Bit presumpteuous on this old man's part.

But because of the above, I think this was intentional as part of the story. And as such, I think the part that stands out is that Angelos being on board means you have a non-slighted party that can keep the wedding going.

My speculation is that by it not being from within the family, I think this is to help remove some "heat" from Eva and Sofia. Otherwise, by having those two involved too heavily all the time, it makes them seem like they're driving the plot. Which you'll notice, recent scenes have tried to downplay again (which might be in response to reader feedback).

 

[misseva88]

Taking a more "meta" analysis stance, (and this assumes Melissa has read criticisms regarding the "perception filter" people have regarding Elena's changing appearance): I don't necessarily think Angelos is a retcon, but I do think the explicit: "I don't think XYZ people noticed" IS meant to head off criticisms as I think most readers would find it odd that some people notice and other's didn't back then.

I feel like drawing it to attention almost reinforces that this new development was preplanned. In the sense that if Mr. Angelos doesn't have a role to play, there's absolutely no reason to draw attention to the fact that Elena wasn't passable back then. The much more simple idea that would be believable is that while in-universe, Elena was passable enough back then, and people are aware she went to the hospital, so having some facial surgery and looking different isn't really that odd.

Turning the easier explanation into a much more difficult one (Now the explanation has become: Andrew wasn't really that passable and a crossdresser immediately identified Andrew as such within a glance, but the other people there who were up close and talking were just too preoccupied to notice) just makes the story telling a bit more clunky. It's not completely unbelievable, but I do think it's a little bit of a stretch. I mean, I'm a crossdresser and I would never presume someone is trans: there are plenty of manish/boyish looking cis-women out there. Plenty of women with narrower hips or larger feet. That said, it's not like I haven't seen tells just because of my own experiences. But still... Bit presumpteuous on this old man's part.

But because of the above, I think this was intentional as part of the story. And as such, I think the part that stands out is that Angelos being on board means you have a non-slighted party that can keep the wedding going.

My speculation is that by it not being from within the family, I think this is to help remove some "heat" from Eva and Sofia. Otherwise, by having those two involved too heavily all the time, it makes them seem like they're driving the plot. Which you'll notice, recent scenes have tried to downplay again (which might be in response to reader feedback).

Usually calling someone out on their passability in stories like these means the main character is made to feel like she's lacking as a woman and she tries harder, which can be used to push her over an edge she didn't want to jump over before. But Elena already crossed pretty much every line a transformation story like this usually puts up. She's undergone the feminisation surgery, both on her face and body. She's had sex as a woman and enjoyed it. After that fight with Marina she broke ties with her male past.

On a meta, storytelling, level Mr. Angelos calling Elena retroactively out doesn't make sense unless there's an other change she has to undergo. Unless there's something I'm missing?

 

[rebirth095]

Usually calling someone out on their passability in stories like these means the main character is made to feel like she's lacking as a woman and she tries harder, which can be used to push her over an edge she didn't want to jump over before. But Elena already crossed pretty much every line a transformation story like this usually puts up. She's undergone the feminisation surgery, both on her face and body. She's had sex as a woman and enjoyed it. After that fight with Marina she broke ties with her male past.

On a meta, storytelling, level Mr. Angelos calling Elena retroactively out doesn't make sense unless there's an other change she has to undergo. Unless there's something I'm missing?

To be clear, and this is where I think nuance is important: What's retroactive is that Mr. Angelos "identified" Elena as a transwoman since the first encounter. There has not been a retcon of Mr. Angelos outing Elena or confronting Elena prior to this point.

As such, the biggest "change" in the storytelling that has occurred due to him calling Elena out currently, is that it informs the reader that Mr. Angelos has known Elena isn't Sofia and Eva's biological mother. Rather, she's not the "real" Elena.

There's a lot of potential ramifications:

1) This is another person outside of the family that knows. That's another loose end and potentially a problem. For example, my current reading on Angelos is that he seems to be treating Elena as a form of wish fulfillment. All this talk where he's basically saying he'll be willing to do whatever it takes to help Elena get married to Nikos is super intrusive and really feels like he's too onboard with this despite being an outsider. Where this becomes a problem is that if the wedding is a cover story to lure in Toska, Angelos is yet another person that you can't afford to upset.

2) Angelos is presumably going to be involved with Eva and Stefanos' wedding? Bar minimum, he's familiar with Nikos' social circles. If Elena upsets him too much, it might hurt "her" daughter, which Elena may wish to avoid.

3) Going back to Angelos' weird intrusiveness: Elena has burned her major bridges. Nikos feels betrayed and knows this is a sham. Marina feels betrayed because Andrew is just plain awful. Eva and Sofia are... there... So right now, the story has no way of staying on course for this whole "we need to lure in Toska". Revealing Angelos as an "ally" gets us back towards wedding day.

That's my read on it, anyway.

 

[Thalantyr]

I mean, I'm a crossdresser and I would never presume someone is trans: there are plenty of manish/boyish looking cis-women out there. Plenty of women with narrower hips or larger feet. That said, it's not like I haven't seen tells just because of my own experiences. But still... Bit presumpteuous on this old man's part.

Actually, this part I do find somewhat believable. Not that Angelos' crossdressing specifically would give him some perception superpower, but I've found that, being into this fetish for so many years, I've become in-tune to a lot of telltale signs that I think most people with less experience don't pick up on right away.

My speculation is that by it not being from within the family, I think this is to help remove some "heat" from Eva and Sofia. Otherwise, by having those two involved too heavily all the time, it makes them seem like they're driving the plot. Which you'll notice, recent scenes have tried to downplay again (which might be in response to reader feedback).

That seems like it could be plausible. In any case it seems we agree that this update feels like a response to reader feedback.

On a meta, storytelling, level Mr. Angelos calling Elena retroactively out doesn't make sense unless there's an other change she has to undergo. Unless there's something I'm missing?

I didn't get the impression that Angelos was "calling her out" in the way that you mean. He said he caught on because of the way she looked before, not because of the way she looks now. So no further change required.

 

[Stevedore100]

A bit of an odd update. Kinda feels like Melissa might be plugging up plot holes in response to criticism about why certain characters (who don't need glasses) haven't noticed changes in Elena's appearance. Or perhaps this scene was planned all along. I'm still not entirely sure why Mr. Angelos exists in the story at all. It seems like Eva and Sofia could have taken on the role of party planners, but maybe Angelos was introduced alongside Dimitra and Stefanos for a specific reason. In any case, this seems to indicate that Dimitra and Stefanos are not in on the scheme.

I got the impression that this update just emphasizes how bad an idea this whole scheme by Nikos was - random people know he was never married and Angelos points out that Elena's drastic change from his first meeting compared to later is a big red flag that even Dimitra(?) might notice. Makes you wonder why they decided to try and introduce Elena to the whole city rather than just keep her under wraps...
I dont really understand Angelo's claiming Elena is such an honest person - while Andrew/Elena has been very victimized by others in this story, I wouldn't be calling her a paragon of honesty. A survivor, yes, adaptable, yes, honest, no.

And what is Elena's future now? Marina gone, estranged from Nikos, stuck as Elena....

 

[Jackjons]

Not that it probably matters, but in Greek mythology, Iris is a special messenger for Hera, who does have an interesting connection to Aphrodite.

Hmm now you mentioned greak mythology,
Then ,according to greak mythology, Aphrodite is the wife of Hephaestus /Volcun, and if I am not Wrong Aphrodite was also created from old Titans flesh or something!

 

[LadyBoyJay]

Hmm now you mentioned greak mythology,
Then ,according to greak mythology, Aphrodite is the wife of Hephaestus /Volcun, and if I am not Wrong Aphrodite was also created from old Titans flesh or something!

Aphrodite did become the wife of Hephaestus and it involved Hera. Aphrodite got kind of screwed by Hera's situation with the golden throne.