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Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-12-19] [Melissa N.]

Thalantyr

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Dec 1, 2023
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I agree she's facing to the right (we're seeing the profile of her breasts, her full right arm bent and gesturing, and her left arm is blurry and at a similar level).

Fully willing to be wrong here. At least to me, it looks like part of the hair is swept forward bit. Really quickly mocking up what I think it looks like with some AI tools (Her right arm is a bit lower than it should be as I think it should cross over in front of the chest and the chest is a bit big. But otherwise, something like this):

View attachment 4027105 View attachment 4027108

I think there's a lot of ambiguity where the hair ends and the red top begins, but for my eyes, I see a lock of hair in front of the shoulders, like in this mockup. Could be Eva, but I also don't think it rules out Marina, as we've seen her with her hair down before and the length could fit:
View attachment 4027076

I really think Eva's is too long, but I'd take no issue being wrong about this. From a plot standpoint, having both sisters in on the conspiracy makes a whole lot more sense than Marina suddenly interacting with Seferi:

View attachment 4027079
Yeah wow that mockup is pretty much exactly how I was picturing her, except I think her right shoulder is a little higher and therefore blocking any hair you might have been able to see behind her back. I also think you can't see well enough to determine if there's any hair draped in front of her shoulder or not. You certainly can't rule out Marina completely, but the reason I think it's not her is because we've only seen her with two hairstyles. 1) Her regular everyday high ponytail, which you'd expect her to wear to the hospital but she's not in the blurred image, and then 2) when she lets her hair down it's much more wavy/voluminous than the blurred image. So if it's Marina, she's wearing a style we haven't seen before. If it's Eva, it could easily be her usual style. And maybe I'm giving Melissa too much credit, but the best clues in a mystery allow the audience to deduce the correct answer using information we've already been shown. If it's Marina with a hair style we've never seen, then it could just as easily be Joanna with her hair dyed brown, or a complete stranger. Which ruins all the fun of speculating. ;)
 
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rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
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910
Yeah wow that mockup is pretty much exactly how I was picturing her, except I think her right shoulder is a little higher and therefore blocking any hair you might have been able to see behind her back. I also think you can't see well enough to determine if there's any hair draped in front of her shoulder or not. You certainly can't rule out Marina completely, but the reason I think it's not her is because we've only seen her with two hairstyles. 1) Her regular everyday high ponytail, which you'd expect her to wear to the hospital but she's not in the blurred image, and then 2) when she lets her hair down it's much more wavy/voluminous than the blurred image. So if it's Marina, she's wearing a style we haven't seen before. If it's Eva, it could easily be her usual style. And maybe I'm giving Melissa too much credit, but the best clues in a mystery allow the audience to deduce the correct answer using information we've already been shown. If it's Marina with a hair style we've never seen, then it could just as easily be Joanna with her hair dyed brown, or a complete stranger. Which ruins all the fun of speculating. ;)
The more I look at it, the more I wonder if Sophie's not off the table.

GREECE1227.png Mystery Woman.png

The darker looking hair could just be the lighting. Putting these two images side by side really makes me rethink my earlier assumptions. Sophie has been one of our most "sus" characters, while Eva's been mostly written out of the main plot.
 
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Stevedore100

Member
Dec 4, 2023
177
547
Some more feminization content in my feminization story? Christmas came early this year!

So if I'm reading this correctly:

- Andrew worked with Orlov and lived in character as a heavy drinker who alienated a lot of friends/family.
- Marina helped him get his life back on track. Strictly speaking, the text doesn't spell out that Marina knew about the method acting stuff. It could be that he was a train wreck and then met Marina who helped him. That feels a bit odd to me: I'd find it more sensible if they were already a couple, Andrew spiraled out of control, and Marina helped him out. But that's just me.
- Andrew is contacted again and meets Orlov. This time, he's convinced and then gets swindled out of his money.
- In present day, it's been decided that Joel will be made a woman and the procedure will be performed "tonight".

If these facts are agreed upon, here's the speculative parts:

The two people discussing Joel's procedure look like a man and a woman. My guess is either Marina or one of the two sisters, and Seferi. Seferi fits both in the hair color, clothing, and from a plot point it makes the most sense. From the hair color and hair length, it seems the woman is Marina (Sofia's hair is a lighter color which doesn't seem to match and is a bit too short. Eva's hair color matches but her hair is much longer).

Not sure about the motivations here though.

Overall, I think these new revelations are interesting although still a bit confusing. The main thing I came away with:

One, I think we have to chalk up Marina's willingness to have Andrew act as Elena, and her not stopping Andrew from drinking as "early installment weirdness". I find it hard to believe that Marina was completely unaware of Orlov's "method acting" relationship with Andrew. Either she should have known about it when helping him out of his spiral, or she should have found out after Andrew lost all his money to that man. So I think I'm just gonna disregard that early bit of characterization, as I think we have enough evidence that it was something written earlier on that contradicts the later writing.

Two, Andrew goes BACK to Orlov. That honestly wasn't on my bingo sheet. I figured it was a singular screw up (like he got swindled while method acting). Now, we see that Andrew has fucked up twice: He was lost in character, helped by Marina, and THEN proceeded to give away all their money. I need time to think about this, but it really paints Andrew as much more of a loser than before. I originally figured that it was something where he was tricked into giving away bank info. Like, he got roofied while being in character or something. But no! He apparently consciously just gave away his and Marina's money without asking her! For a guy who he already knows is sketchy as fuck!
I would emphasize that it's 3 things, not just 2. Andrew does the bad drunk guy part, loans Irlov the money and takes a role in the film. And really doesn't seem to like the guy. What's also not clear is if Orlov ran off with the money or whether Andrew might be able to get it back.
 

Stevedore100

Member
Dec 4, 2023
177
547
The more I look at it, the more I wonder if Sophie's not off the table.

View attachment 4027227 View attachment 4027228

The darker looking hair could just be the lighting. Putting these two images side by side really makes me rethink my earlier assumptions. Sophie has been one of our most "sus" characters, while Eva's been mostly written out of the main plot.
If it's Seferi and one of the daughters,that's interesting because way way back Seferi says something about Mrs Samaras being the best way into the family - why say that if he is already in with one of the daughters?
 

rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
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910
If it's Seferi and one of the daughters,that's interesting because way way back Seferi says something about Mrs Samaras being the best way into the family - why say that if he is already in with one of the daughters?
I suppose it depends on what his intentions of being "in" with the family are. Who is he trying to get closer to? If it's ultimately about Nikos, than maybe Elena has already served as the "bridge" into the family. Flip it around: if Seferi knows Andrew exists, and seems to be part of the conspiracy to scare Andrew into staying as Elena, that could be the "in" he's talking about. Not by working with Elena, but by helping Sophie/Eva feminize Andrew into Elena.
 

Stevedore100

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Dec 4, 2023
177
547
I suppose it depends on what his intentions of being "in" with the family are. Who is he trying to get closer to? If it's ultimately about Nikos, than maybe Elena has already served as the "bridge" into the family. Flip it around: if Seferi knows Andrew exists, and seems to be part of the conspiracy to scare Andrew into staying as Elena, that could be the "in" he's talking about. Not by working with Elena, but by helping Sophie/Eva feminize Andrew into Elena.
The question is does Seferi know about Andrew? He knows Elena is a bit of a fake - go back there other first meeting where he says she seems to have just appeared out of nowhere, but he never mentions the elephant in the room "hey you're a guy" and to my knowledge has never said anything about it further - it's Mrs Samaras this and that. If he is in with a daughter, then he should know, I less we have some double crossing going on
 

rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
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910
The question is does Seferi know about Andrew? He knows Elena is a bit of a fake - go back there other first meeting where he says she seems to have just appeared out of nowhere, but he never mentions the elephant in the room "hey you're a guy" and to my knowledge has never said anything about it further - it's Mrs Samaras this and that. If he is in with a daughter, then he should know, I less we have some double crossing going on
There are lines you can interpret as him knowing, but I think the biggest tell is that he's openly discussing feminizing Joel. And he's one of the few people that has met pre-surgery "Elena", so there should be some huge red flags that her face has completely changed. He might not know the specifics about "Andrew", but I think he knows that "Elena" isn't the "real" Elena.

Or, let me put it another way:

GREECE1199.png GREECE1205.png

Before this latest part, it was ambiguous what Seferi meant by "living a fake life". It could have just been Elena becoming Nikos' trophy wife. But the fact that he threatens Joel that Joel will have the same fate, and we now find out that same fate is being feminized: It's pretty clear that Seferi knows that Elena isn't a cisgender woman and that the "fake life" part he referred to in these panels is more to do with gender than with circumstance.

Now the specifics as to how much he knows about Andrew is admittedly less clear. But he clearly knows Elena isn't who everyone (Nikos and the daughters) is pretending she is.
 

Stevedore100

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Dec 4, 2023
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547
There are lines you can interpret as him knowing, but I think the biggest tell is that he's openly discussing feminizing Joel. And he's one of the few people that has met pre-surgery "Elena", so there should be some huge red flags that her face has completely changed. He might not know the specifics about "Andrew", but I think he knows that "Elena" isn't the "real" Elena.

Or, let me put it another way:

View attachment 4027661 View attachment 4027662

Before this latest part, it was ambiguous what Seferi meant by "living a fake life". It could have just been Elena becoming Nikos' trophy wife. But the fact that he threatens Joel that Joel will have the same fate, and we now find out that same fate is being feminized: It's pretty clear that Seferi knows that Elena isn't a cisgender woman and that the "fake life" part he referred to in these panels is more to do with gender than with circumstance.

Now the specifics as to how much he knows about Andrew is admittedly less clear. But he clearly knows Elena isn't who everyone (Nikos and the daughters) is pretending she is.
Yes, you and I are in agreement on this - Seferi knows Elena isn't really Elena, but as to who he thinks she really is is unclear.

I'm also thinking of the subplot with the Eva and Stefanos romance - I think Seferi is out to get or swindle Nikos - a marriage to his daughter might facilitate that and Stefanie and his mom just happened to return to Athens at just the right time ( and no obe seemed to have any knowledge of the past romance between the two). Is this where new improved Joel might fit in?
 

misseva88

Member
Jul 5, 2017
191
578
So if I'm reading this correctly:

- Andrew worked with Orlov and lived in character as a heavy drinker who alienated a lot of friends/family.
- Marina helped him get his life back on track. Strictly speaking, the text doesn't spell out that Marina knew about the method acting stuff. It could be that he was a train wreck and then met Marina who helped him. That feels a bit odd to me: I'd find it more sensible if they were already a couple, Andrew spiraled out of control, and Marina helped him out. But that's just me.
- Andrew is contacted again and meets Orlov. This time, he's convinced and then gets swindled out of his money.
- In present day, it's been decided that Joel will be made a woman and the procedure will be performed "tonight".
If Andrew had an alcohol problem that caused him to spiral out of control and Marina helped him kick that problem, why is there no fuss over them casually having a glass of red wine with their dinner the very first time Andrew meets Nikos and the twins? Surely, if Marina cared about that problem enough for her to bring it up later, she wouldn't let Andrew drink a glass of alcohol again? Or at the very least mention her concerns?
 

MyraTSF

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Dec 22, 2023
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412
If Andrew had an alcohol problem that caused him to spiral out of control and Marina helped him kick that problem, why is there no fuss over them casually having a glass of red wine with their dinner the very first time Andrew meets Nikos and the twins? Surely, if Marina cared about that problem enough for her to bring it up later, she wouldn't let Andrew drink a glass of alcohol again? Or at the very least mention her concerns?
I could play devils advocate and say it was grape juice or something like that so he's not impolite and stands out with some kiddy juice-box while everyone else has fancy glasses, but it could just be an oversight or a change in the direction later on in the story.
:whistle:
 

rebirth095

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Jul 25, 2021
287
910
If Andrew had an alcohol problem that caused him to spiral out of control and Marina helped him kick that problem, why is there no fuss over them casually having a glass of red wine with their dinner the very first time Andrew meets Nikos and the twins? Surely, if Marina cared about that problem enough for her to bring it up later, she wouldn't let Andrew drink a glass of alcohol again? Or at the very least mention her concerns?
So that's why I also said:

One, I think we have to chalk up Marina's willingness to have Andrew act as Elena, and her not stopping Andrew from drinking as "early installment weirdness". I find it hard to believe that Marina was completely unaware of Orlov's "method acting" relationship with Andrew. Either she should have known about it when helping him out of his spiral, or she should have found out after Andrew lost all his money to that man. So I think I'm just gonna disregard that early bit of characterization, as I think we have enough evidence that it was something written earlier on that contradicts the later writing.
Both the drinking and the method acting should have been major red flags that Marina would have stopped. Before this chapter, we didn't have any specifics about what went wrong back then. Now that we found out what the "incident" was, the fact that it's both alcohol and method acting related is such a direct contradiction of the earlier lines, I am personally convinced that the earlier characterization was a misstep in writing just due to how early in the story it was.

Otherwise, Marina needs to either:

1) Have helped Andrew but was somehow unaware of his drinking and his method acting.

2) Was well aware but is convinced that Andrew has it "under control".

3) Was well aware and is counting on the fact that Andrew will screw up.

The first one seems impossible given the circumstances, and we've talked at length already in this forum why the remaining two don't make sense.

As I've said before, I was originally giving it the benefit of the doubt, and was avoiding the more meta "this scene doesn't fit because it was just a writing misstep", but I think we've got enough info now that it's unavoidable. While it's a bit frustrating in a mystery story, I can forgive mistakes that happen early in the writing because this format lends itself to that happening. When you're posting a story and writing it live, with no way to edit earlier sections, then you run the risk of having something you casually wrote over a year ago contradicting something your write now.

Based on this new evidence, I find it more palatable for there to have been that mostly self contained mistake to have occurred right at the beginning, as opposed to the inverse. Because if 2 or 3 are true, then it's not just one mistake near the beginning but instead a whole bunch of way more recent scenes that make less sense.
 

Thalantyr

Member
Dec 1, 2023
401
1,401
So that's why I also said:



Both the drinking and the method acting should have been major red flags that Marina would have stopped. Before this chapter, we didn't have any specifics about what went wrong back then. Now that we found out what the "incident" was, the fact that it's both alcohol and method acting related is such a direct contradiction of the earlier lines, I am personally convinced that the earlier characterization was a misstep in writing just due to how early in the story it was.

Otherwise, Marina needs to either:

1) Have helped Andrew but was somehow unaware of his drinking and his method acting.

2) Was well aware but is convinced that Andrew has it "under control".

3) Was well aware and is counting on the fact that Andrew will screw up.

The first one seems impossible given the circumstances, and we've talked at length already in this forum why the remaining two don't make sense.

As I've said before, I was originally giving it the benefit of the doubt, and was avoiding the more meta "this scene doesn't fit because it was just a writing misstep", but I think we've got enough info now that it's unavoidable. While it's a bit frustrating in a mystery story, I can forgive mistakes that happen early in the writing because this format lends itself to that happening. When you're posting a story and writing it live, with no way to edit earlier sections, then you run the risk of having something you casually wrote over a year ago contradicting something your write now.

Based on this new evidence, I find it more palatable for there to have been that mostly self contained mistake to have occurred right at the beginning, as opposed to the inverse. Because if 2 or 3 are true, then it's not just one mistake near the beginning but instead a whole bunch of way more recent scenes that make less sense.
While I think you're probably right, there's still room for #1 to be true. It's possible that she helped him without knowing what the problem was by just being generally supportive. Or maybe something she did or said inadvertently triggered something in his head that snapped him back to reality and he never explained to her why he was acting like an asshole for a while.
 

MyraTSF

Member
Dec 22, 2023
125
412
While I think you're probably right, there's still room for #1 to be true. It's possible that she helped him without knowing what the problem was by just being generally supportive. Or maybe something she did or said inadvertently triggered something in his head that snapped him back to reality and he never explained to her why he was acting like an asshole for a while.
We always guessed what that "thing many months ago" was. When Andrew explains this whole "staying as your aunt for many months" was due to being drugged and being taken advantage of, it all sounds like Marina knew what happened back then to make this kind of comparison. Since no money was stolen she's asking what the big scam is this time, to which Andrew has no real answer.
1726232254932.png
Marina must have known what happened and for Andrew to take on this role is either part of her plan, a blatant disregard for his mental state which easily laps into a "persona" and can be stuck that way, and his problem with drugs or she's just not a good wife which would be the lamest explanation.

My tinfoil theory is Marina never forgave him and planned this whole thing to see if her husband gets "lost" again and is really trying to better himself or it's pure revenge thats backfiring cause "Elena" is actually happy that way.
 

Thalantyr

Member
Dec 1, 2023
401
1,401
We always guessed what that "thing many months ago" was. When Andrew explains this whole "staying as your aunt for many months" was due to being drugged and being taken advantage of, it all sounds like Marina knew what happened back then to make this kind of comparison. Since no money was stolen she's asking what the big scam is this time, to which Andrew has no real answer.
View attachment 4028759
Marina must have known what happened and for Andrew to take on this role is either part of her plan, a blatant disregard for his mental state which easily laps into a "persona" and can be stuck that way, and his problem with drugs or she's just not a good wife which would be the lamest explanation.

My tinfoil theory is Marina never forgave him and planned this whole thing to see if her husband gets "lost" again and is really trying to better himself or it's pure revenge thats backfiring cause "Elena" is actually happy that way.
I'm not saying you or rebirth are wrong, I'm just saying there's still the possibility that Marina doesn't know about the method acting/alcoholism. Her wording about the "incident" is quite vague, and also we don't know which incident she's referring to. Poena says Andrew betrayed her trust twice, which we can assume was 1) becoming a method alcoholic asshole, and 2) losing all their money. What if she's talking about #2 in the screenshot you posted? Maybe Orlov drugged Andrew (or at least Andrew suspects he did, or lied and told Marina that's what happened) to get him to "invest" all of his money in this movie. She could just be referring to that while being completely unaware of the exact circumstances around #1. This would explain why she wasn't wary of Andrew drinking wine with dinner or agreeing to pose as Nikos' wife for one night.

But I imagine we'll find out one way or the other very soon. :)
 
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Stevedore100

Member
Dec 4, 2023
177
547
I'm not saying you or rebirth are wrong, I'm just saying there's still the possibility that Marina doesn't know about the method acting/alcoholism. Her wording about the "incident" is quite vague, and also we don't know which incident she's referring to. Poena says Andrew betrayed her trust twice, which we can assume was 1) becoming a method alcoholic asshole, and 2) losing all their money. What if she's talking about #2 in the screenshot you posted? Maybe Orlov drugged Andrew (or at least Andrew suspects he did, or lied and told Marina that's what happened) to get him to "invest" all of his money in this movie. She could just be referring to that while being completely unaware of the exact circumstances around #1. This would explain why she wasn't wary of Andrew drinking wine with dinner or agreeing to pose as Nikos' wife for one night.

But I imagine we'll find out one way or the other very soon. :)
I think that's a fair assessment - Andrew makes it clear that it was the method acting that got him to drink and be a jerk, so Marina may well have focused on the method acting part as being the true problem.

Also thinking that Andrew's "researching a lot about Greece" and learning some Greek may have been more than just about his honeymoon.
 

misseva88

Member
Jul 5, 2017
191
578
So that's why I also said:



Both the drinking and the method acting should have been major red flags that Marina would have stopped. Before this chapter, we didn't have any specifics about what went wrong back then. Now that we found out what the "incident" was, the fact that it's both alcohol and method acting related is such a direct contradiction of the earlier lines, I am personally convinced that the earlier characterization was a misstep in writing just due to how early in the story it was.

Otherwise, Marina needs to either:

1) Have helped Andrew but was somehow unaware of his drinking and his method acting.

2) Was well aware but is convinced that Andrew has it "under control".

3) Was well aware and is counting on the fact that Andrew will screw up.

The first one seems impossible given the circumstances, and we've talked at length already in this forum why the remaining two don't make sense.

As I've said before, I was originally giving it the benefit of the doubt, and was avoiding the more meta "this scene doesn't fit because it was just a writing misstep", but I think we've got enough info now that it's unavoidable. While it's a bit frustrating in a mystery story, I can forgive mistakes that happen early in the writing because this format lends itself to that happening. When you're posting a story and writing it live, with no way to edit earlier sections, then you run the risk of having something you casually wrote over a year ago contradicting something your write now.

Based on this new evidence, I find it more palatable for there to have been that mostly self contained mistake to have occurred right at the beginning, as opposed to the inverse. Because if 2 or 3 are true, then it's not just one mistake near the beginning but instead a whole bunch of way more recent scenes that make less sense.
The story doesn't say Marina helped Andrew get his life back on track. So I see a fourth option:
4. Meeting Marina made Andrew want to turn his life around.

I took the time to quickly browse through the story to see when Andrew/Elena is drinking.
1. In the very first chapter, where Andrew accepts to dress up as Elena.
2. At the business diner Andrew actively tries to avoid drinking wine, until Joel points out he isn't drinking. Then he takes a sip and heads to the toilet where he meets Joanna.
3. Joanna spikes her champagne and lets Andrew take a sip. When he returns to the table, he kisses Nikos on the cheek and feels more relaxed.
4. Joel this time straight out tells Andrew he should drink more wine. Mr. Toska says he trusts Nikos and agrees to a partnership, insisting on Joel staying around. Nikos is reluctant but Andrew happily accepts. Nikos has to explain to Andrew (who will now go by Elena) that because Joel stays around, so Elena has to stay around too.
- The transformation happens stone cold sober. That's interesting.
5. After the transformation Elena takes a bath and the twins supply her with a glass of wine. Right after the glass of white win is shown, Elena gets aroused but is unable to act upon it as she's in a chastity cage. She gets a phone call from an unknown number after trying to phone Elena. She gets annoyed and subconsciously with her mind thinking of other things, she does her skin care routine.
6. A couple of days later, when Elena is thinking back to a year prior, she's in bath with an other glass of white wine. She's only been dressing up as a woman for about a week at this point ("it's been a week since I've worn anything other than high heels", p. 356), but describes herself. They're to show how much she's changed. She describes herself as "a woman who loves and just can't live without thongs". Which is an interesting change in just a few days time. Unless of course there's a trigger that quickens the mental transformation, the embracing of the female role.
7. Elena has a glass of wine in the car, underway to Mr Seferi. He scares her, which is then used by Sophie to talk Elena into 'perfecting' her disguise.
- The surgery happens and Elena doesn't have a recollection of it due to the presumably spiked tea. Interesting enough, she does appear to panic when she sees and feels her new body. Nikos comes by and Elena doesn't like to get kissed. Nikos then claims he doesn't remember Andrew. That evening, when she's had her makeup done and wears a tight red dress she's more accepting of the kiss Nikos gives her.
When she excuses herself to go to the bathroom, Elena has to tell herself to "stay in character", but she intends to end things that night. When she and Nikos are together to walk to the gettogether, she realises she's spoken Greek without realising since she woke up.

I think alcohol plays a part in Andrews transition into the Elena character. Andrew says on p. 1436 that his behavioural change occured when he started drinking. What if that triggers him into becoming Elena, mentally. That's why he wasn't keen on drinking when dressed as Elena the first couple of times. But when that became normalised, so becomes his journey into womanhood. He panicks when he hasn't drunk in a while (post-surgery), but as soon as she has her glass of wine she's turned from a man into a thong-woman.

I don't know, I feel there's something to the alcohol. Melissa has known for a while how many chapters her story will take, so I think she's planned a lot of this out beforehand. I don't think the alcohol on the table in the first chapter is due to a mistake on her part. That's not to say it has to mean something, but I don't think it should be ignored in order for a theory to work.