RPGM Missy [v0.8.8] [Trinian Games]

[drdredit]

Thankyou for the honest and candid feedback. I have a question for you, as well as any other domme players reading this who'd like to contribute. Where do you feel the line should be in making a game mode that you can enjoy?

Trinian - thank you for the thoughtful reply - it was certainly more tolerant than my spoiler rant! Apologies for the tone. I love the premise of the game and 95% of the scenes are actually fine from a dom/sub point of view. I wouldn't want you to change the concept of the world - it works.

I liked in the earlier chapters where it felt like Missy at least had some agency - in the current release she has none - but as you pointed out that is the story line for now, so OK.

I like the scenes that are a little more transactional - and while Missy might not like it going in she still gets turned on. Sexual corruption is hot - even when Missy is the one being corrupted. The internal dialog ("why is this turning me on so much?") helps a lot with that.

Spoiler

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That's why the after school spanking scenes and the whole Ms. Paris arc are also fine and Miss Abbie is just plain hot - and what's different about those is the relationships and the fact that Missy is really into it - even from a sub point of view - closer to power sharing BDSM.

All of the school and authority related scenes including all the spankings and the medical exam work for me because - yeah, it is the "humiliating punishment school from lesbian sex hell" so it goes with the territory - same with Karen's arc, the red light district, the public punisments - it all works within the world. Most of the interplay between the bad girls and good girls works because there is some give and take. In a sense they are all in it together but just competing tribes. The earlier scenes with Jess are like that too - sometimes Missy wins, sometimes Jess wins - both scenarios can be hot and from a personality point of view, Jess will be more agressive - probably because of her insecurity. If I didn't like any of that I wouldn't be playing the game. While I prefer Missy as hero to the good girls I don't mind at all her having to go through a bunch of humilating steps to get there - but often times she's doing it to achieve a goal - and the fact that she ends up getting turned on by it is a bonus to her and the player. The strip club is a great example. Its a subjective call where the line for extreme humilation is - the bathroom scene crossed it for me - and yes I'd like to avoid anything that extreme in the future. I don't necessarily want to skip the Reign of Jess, it is just that we have only seen the setup and we don't currently see a light at the end of the tunnel or a way out - but that just may be because we need the next two chapters.

And an asisde - thank you for anything you can do to help the player navigate around the world - I was relieved to see Jess's house clearly identifed - I don't like having to wander around an RPGM world sarching searching for things - "wrong house, try the next one, rinse and repeat." I much pefer the "here are the key spots - where would you like to go?" arrangment - the road sign shortcuts help with that.

Thanks for the game!

DrD

 

[GreenDark]

My Missy's domination stat is very high, or so she claims when in front of her mirror. But something I've come to accept about this game is that stat really doesn't mean much.
Players who prefer playing as dominant characters will be severely underserved in this game compared to people who want to see their character humiliated. Missy is a sub in the overwhelming majority of situations regardless of what she says in front of that mirror. Even in relationships where you'd think she and her partner are balanced in that aspect.
You even mention Abbie and Lola but they also dominate Missy. They're fine in that they don't rape and humiliate Missy without consent like the bad girls and teachers do.

A while ago, on one of Trinian's patreon posts there was this quote

But for those who want to be able to "win," that's the upside: revenge and deferred gratification.

That's technically true, Missy does get her revenge in most cases, but the gratification might be disproportionately small for the amount she had to endure to get there. That's assuming it's someone like me who has already accepted that "domme" Missy simply can't win much in the first place.

[...] it just becomes this whole sexy cycle of dominance and submission!

For domme players it's a cycle. Missy suffers a lot, gets revenge for a bit and quickly goes right back to being humiliated and dominated again.
Meanwhile, sub players are rewarded every step of the way and beyond.

So at this point I find it a bit odd that you'd wonder about how domme players feel to the point of proposing to skip content. When the balance is already this skewed, you obviously don't intent to make sure domme players are actually as satisfied as sub players. That's an impossibility given the theme of the game.

I think you shouldn't do it. This goes against what this game is at its core and might further mislead domme players into thinking they actually have a chance to be served as well as sub players. If you really want to do it anyway you'd have to be very clear when offering the option in-game about what it does and, mostly, doesn't do. It won't make a real dominant Missy a reality.

 

[Trinian]

Thank you both, very helpful insights. I feel like there's probably enough for a whole Patreon post about this at some point, but broad stokes of where my thinking is currently:

1. Yes, it's absolutely true that this is a game where the protag mostly gets dominated, and that's what a majority of players want to see. It's also true that I try to make it possible for the player to "win" in some small ways where possible.

2. It's not possible in all cases. Reign of Jess is a story on rails where

Spoiler: Not really a spoiler but whatever

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but you'll suffer a lot on the way.
There's a few ways this could be ameliorated for players not interested in seeing Missy get dominated unwillingly for 3 chapters, ranging from the relatively straightforward, just allowing you to skip the H-scenes and end up with a tame but boring walking simulator/puzzle game, to the nuclear option of skipping these chapters altogether.

3. The other major one that keeps coming up is of course the toilet ambush. To give some context, this came quite early on in development. 0.2 to be precise. I had hit on this idea of having the two quests you choose from (never again!) and having written Down with the Bad Girls, I'd realised it was very light on H-content, with nothing equivalent to the hazing ritual. So I figured I'd include something that'd make you hate Poppy more so it felt better to beat her at the end.

Where the mistake came, I think, was in not understanding the reason why the player was on this path. You were resisting Poppy because you were playing a domme or hero Missy, not a subby one. I applied this lesson later in Avenging Angel, by having the different paths show the content the player was more likely to want to see. An example of this is

Spoiler

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I hope it comes through a little better, but again, I'm totally open to feedback and suggestions for the future. If something can be done that improves the domme experience without negatively impacting the sub experience or making a ton of extra work, it's a no-brainer.

 

[OuterZone]

This unique game does many things right. It was a pleasant surprise as I dove in without knowing anything about it.

Pros

- RPG Maker: RenPy is far more popular and it's justifiably so, but what this game tries to achieve cannot be done with an interactive slideshow. The dev has done a remarkable job with this project.

- Details: Maps, worldbuilding, characters, and lore are surprisingly detailed and impressively well-crafted. There are some minor inconsistencies though.

- Story (up to a certain point): It is engaging and develops well. Quests are particularly well-designed, reminiscent of The Witcher in that there are always surprises along the way. There's also a healthy dose of humor and light-heartedness, which is executed well without trying too hard.

- Renders: The renders serve their purpose effectively. Missy, in particular, is well-designed. One slight negative is that most characters’ looks aren’t that different and the teachers look as young as the students. (Perhaps include a teacher who looks like Kat from Pale Carnations? I think both games use Honey Select.)

- Eroticism: perpetually horny girls having sex (sometimes using weird positions) and dominating each other, what’s not to like?

- Gameplay: The battle system is creatively funny and is scarcely used which means it doesn’t impede the flow of the game. The world is large, complex, and rich. Most importantly, the interactivity makes the world feel alive with NPCs feeling like living people due to individualized dialogues for almost every student in the school for pretty much every event. This is seriously impressive.

Cons

- RPG Maker: While it allows for game elements, RPGM still imposes some frustrating limitations. RenPy’s save anywhere and ability to skip already seen/read dialogues are quite convenient for trying multiple paths quickly. This game would benefit from some manual save prompts during long events with consequential choices. I also encountered a nasty bug that let me play the game for quite a while before it broke the game. None of this is the fault of the dev though, just limitations of a software that has seen little progress in two decades.

- Story (Spoilers):

Spoiler: Story spoiler

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I’m sure others will still enjoy the game and I hope the dev gets more support and recognition. Personal gripes notwithstanding, this game is a gem.

 

[Saturn23]

Thank you both, very helpful insights. I feel like there's probably enough for a whole Patreon post about this at some point, but broad stokes of where my thinking is currently:

1. Yes, it's absolutely true that this is a game where the protag mostly gets dominated, and that's what a majority of players want to see. It's also true that I try to make it possible for the player to "win" in some small ways where possible.

2. It's not possible in all cases. Reign of Jess is a story on rails where

Spoiler: Not really a spoiler but whatever

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but you'll suffer a lot on the way.
There's a few ways this could be ameliorated for players not interested in seeing Missy get dominated unwillingly for 3 chapters, ranging from the relatively straightforward, just allowing you to skip the H-scenes and end up with a tame but boring walking simulator/puzzle game, to the nuclear option of skipping these chapters altogether.

3. The other major one that keeps coming up is of course the toilet ambush. To give some context, this came quite early on in development. 0.2 to be precise. I had hit on this idea of having the two quests you choose from (never again!) and having written Down with the Bad Girls, I'd realised it was very light on H-content, with nothing equivalent to the hazing ritual. So I figured I'd include something that'd make you hate Poppy more so it felt better to beat her at the end.

Where the mistake came, I think, was in not understanding the reason why the player was on this path. You were resisting Poppy because you were playing a domme or hero Missy, not a subby one. I applied this lesson later in Avenging Angel, by having the different paths show the content the player was more likely to want to see. An example of this is

Spoiler

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I hope it comes through a little better, but again, I'm totally open to feedback and suggestions for the future. If something can be done that improves the domme experience without negatively impacting the sub experience or making a ton of extra work, it's a no-brainer.

@ So I figured I'd include something that'd make you hate Poppy more so it felt better to beat her at the end. @
Developer: The game makes a scene to make me hate Poppy.
Me: looking for scenes where Poppy humiliates Missy as much as possible)

 

[Wildfire25]

- Story (Spoilers):

Spoiler: Story spoiler

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Which chapter are you calling 5? if It's ch. 4 then I agree that everything in it feels a bit sudden.

Thankyou for the honest and candid feedback. I have a question for you, as well as any other domme players reading this who'd like to contribute. Where do you feel the line should be in making a game mode that you can enjoy?

First I really don't think you should make a skip option, it would just be annoying and I don't really think anyone would use it.
As a Dom player I want it not to happen to Missy since she is "under my protection", but I don't hate seeing her naked and stuff.
But I also think it is fine, it is ok to lose sometimes, but when the story is as much on rails as Reign of Jess and Queen of the ring is, it does get a bit annoying to have no control at all.
Some small things that I think could make it better is Missy taking some sort of control over a situation.

Spoiler: Like

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Reign of Jess is also a little hard to have a full opinion on since its a part of a story.
I also agree with you that Avenging Angel is a better way of handling it then Down with the bad girls, even though I like both.

 

[OuterZone]

Which chapter are you calling 5? if It's ch. 4 then I agree that everything in it feels a bit sudden.

Yes, chapter 4. Post edited.

 

[TopBlade]

Meanwhile over here i love how Jess is

Completely agreed. Jess makes the game for me personally. Adore her character (and more importantly, her cruelty.) best dom in this game ngl, well definitely be aiming to get the ending where she rules everything.

 

[Trellok]

Completely agreed. Jess makes the game for me personally. Adore her character (and more importantly, her cruelty.) best dom in this game ngl, well definitely be aiming to get the ending where she rules everything.

Agreed, i like how mischievous she is, always planning something to surprise Missy and anyone else that gets her attention, or in her way.

 

[The Celtic fan]

I was trying to play missy as a dom, or well rather not as a complete "sub", but it's something that honestly doesn't seem very possible with the way the game is.

at the beginning it wasn't so bad, it was basically fighting against the current, but then it became more boring, it doesn't feel like there's progression in a dom path, it's basically a cycle of missy being humiliated a lot without being able to do anything, then she manages to overcome and have a little revenge scene.

the "revenge" content is not proportional enough to make it worthwhile after going through so much humiliation, and it gets worse when there is a long chain of pure humiliation content like jess', something that would make it better to play this kind of missions, is to make missy at least sometimes succeed in fighting back and saving herself from humiliation. because too much humiliation content without a way to avoid it will become boring for a "dom" player.

but honestly there is not much content to make missy as a dom worth playing, it has so little content that it even seems to go against the core of the game, even almost all of the consensual sex scenes have missy as a sub.

skipping content isn't ideal either especially when it's as disproportionate as this, it would be like a bait for dom players to try to play to end up seeing almost nothing.

It can be compared to those games that are supposed to have a lesbian route, but it turns out that it's not even 10% of the game content and it becomes annoying to be dodging men all the time it's pretty boring to play something like this, and personally I was already getting bored of that route because of jess.

 

[Trinian]

I was trying to play missy as a dom, or well rather not as a complete "sub", but it's something that honestly doesn't seem very possible with the way the game is.

at the beginning it wasn't so bad, it was basically fighting against the current, but then it became more boring, it doesn't feel like there's progression in a dom path, it's basically a cycle of missy being humiliated a lot without being able to do anything, then she manages to overcome and have a little revenge scene.

the "revenge" content is not proportional enough to make it worthwhile after going through so much humiliation, and it gets worse when there is a long chain of pure humiliation content like jess', something that would make it better to play this kind of missions, is to make missy at least sometimes succeed in fighting back and saving herself from humiliation. because too much humiliation content without a way to avoid it will become boring for a "dom" player.

but honestly there is not much content to make missy as a dom worth playing, it has so little content that it even seems to go against the core of the game, even almost all of the consensual sex scenes have missy as a sub.

skipping content isn't ideal either especially when it's as disproportionate as this, it would be like a bait for dom players to try to play to end up seeing almost nothing.

It can be compared to those games that are supposed to have a lesbian route, but it turns out that it's not even 10% of the game content and it becomes annoying to be dodging men all the time it's pretty boring to play something like this, and personally I was already getting bored of that route because of jess.

It's always interesting to hear the difference between what I think I'm doing and how it's being received. I thought I'd thrown quite a few things to players looking for a domme experience in Avenging Angel - you can:

Spoiler

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(Also the purpose of the isolation scene was to make an information gathering mission more interesting and visually pleasing than "go over there and talk to that NPC.")

I do take the point about skipping content not being the answer though, and I've decided to go with a more limited version in which the player can choose to skip non-consensual scenes.

 

[The Celtic fan]

It's always interesting to hear the difference between what I think I'm doing and how it's being received. I thought I'd thrown quite a few things to players looking for a domme experience in Avenging Angel - you can:

Spoiler

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(Also the purpose of the isolation scene was to make an information gathering mission more interesting and visually pleasing than "go over there and talk to that NPC.")

I do take the point about skipping content not being the answer though, and I've decided to go with a more limited version in which the player can choose to skip non-consensual scenes.

I had already played that mission, I have no complaints about it, at least for me it was much better than Jess' mission.
But there you can also see the disproportionality of the sub and dom content.

Spoiler

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that's what i mean by the "revenge" content is not proportional enough to make it worthwhile after going through so much humiliation.
the reason it looks better in avenging angel is because there isn't much humiliation content, but the dom content is still both very short and very little, missy hardly participates much either, other than giving a few words.

sorry but also what do you mean by skipping, is it that it happens but we don't see it, or is it that it never happens? if it is the first one although it is not ideal, it is recommended that you only do it in scenes that have no repercussions, it would be annoying to hear dialogue of something that happened but we didn't see in another scene.

also, I hope that what I said is not taken to mean that I don't like the game, on the contrary, in fact it's my favorite game of this site, if I wasn't a college student whose job is only enough to pay the rent, I would be a patreon.

although I prefer a dominant protagonist, I love the consensual sub content like with Abby and Miss Paris
I also personally liked a lot the poppy's ending,

Spoiler

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one last little rant, I know there are colors to suit all tastes but I can't believe that a bully brat like jess has had more popularity than a dominant milf like miss Paris.

 

[GreenDark]

one last little rant, I know there are colors to suit all tastes but I can't believe that a bully brat like jess has had more popularity than a dominant milf like miss Paris.

This one is wild to me as well. I'd be very interested in knowing people's reasons.
Might be because Jess has a bit more happening in the story than miss Paris for now. She also has this poorly hidden crush on Missy, making her some kind of tsundere.

 

[Birdnman993]

She also has this poorly hidden crush on Missy, making her some kind of tsundere.

It's not like a tsundere it's literally more specifically its subcategory sadodere which refers to a character who has a sadistic personality. They like to play with the feelings of their love interests and are commonly known as "mean teases."

Although I still can't define if Jess loves to humiliate and belittle Missy or she does it to mask the fact that she likes her or maybe a little of both, I don't know why but she is one of my favorite cliches in this type of stories.

 

[Trinian]

sorry but also what do you mean by skipping, is it that it happens but we don't see it, or is it that it never happens? if it is the first one although it is not ideal, it is recommended that you only do it in scenes that have no repercussions, it would be annoying to hear dialogue of something that happened but we didn't see in another scene.

It'll depend on the scene. Because the toilet ambush for instance, is avoidable anyway, it wouldn't change anything to just add a warning where the player can have that whole event not happen.

This one is wild to me as well. I'd be very interested in knowing people's reasons.
Might be because Jess has a bit more happening in the story than miss Paris for now. She also has this poorly hidden crush on Missy, making her some kind of tsundere.

She's a pretty close second. She won a supporter poll the other day and while a year ago, Jess would have taken it easily, today, I think that if their relationship quests ended up going head-to-head, I wouldn't want to call who I think would win.

Based on what people have said, if I had to venture a guess, I think the "danger" element excites people more with Jessica (and Poppy.) Because Miss Paris is an authority figure, she operates within certain rules, and has at least some sense of fairness. Jess does not. She wants to make you suffer and if she gets hold of you, she can do whatever she wants (even if she could get in trouble for it later, but she's shown that she doesn't care about that.)

 

[drdredit]

I just played Avenging Angel and took a middle of the road path - it was fun.

Spoiler

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I would like to play the other paths

Spoiler

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but I find RPGM games so tedious that I can't bring myself to spend the time. Maybe another time when I am bored with other things.

Trinian - thanks again for all the location hints - it takes some of the RPGM frustration away finding places. Have you thought about more quick jumps?

 

[Trinian]

I just played Avenging Angel and took a middle of the road path - it was fun.

Spoiler

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I would like to play the other paths

Spoiler

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but I find RPGM games so tedious that I can't bring myself to spend the time. Maybe another time when I am bored with other things.

Trinian - thanks again for all the location hints - it takes some of the RPGM frustration away finding places. Have you thought about more quick jumps?

Where should they be? The only thing I've thought might be an idea so far is a jump straight from the west corridor to the school gates at the end of the day, but the problem is there's sometimes stuff to do between the two, like getting your panties back from Poppy

 

[Trinian]

In this week's public post, you can have your say on who gets the next interview

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[Trinian]

In this week's public post, we talk poll results, and I ask for your questions for Missy!

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[Requesto]

Finally a real lesbian game.

Most of the time the lesbian tag is simply useless, as one scene with two women is enough to qualify for, and even a female protag tag is not enough. And the other time it's just kinetic novels.