One thing is to give constructive criticism. Another thing is to complain for complaining or to demand stuff.
In the end, this is a forum and people should be allow to express what they like and what they dislike. Straightforward demanding stuff is ridiculous though.
Again, different things. One thing is to say "I would like to see this" and another is "I demand to see this".
Sometimes, however, the line between the two is not clear. But I believe most of the time you can tell if someone is doing one or the other.
So let me recapitulate and be as clear as possible. Given the knowledge I know about how the harem stuff was created, that it was as a consequence of dev misunderstanding the tags and some people then claiming he had, on the very least, leave some stuff unpromised, I would like the harem stuff to be better introduced and executed to be more consistent with previous character development.
If that does not happen, pity, but still will continue reading and wishing the best for dev and project.
To add further to this, I think it can be said that pretty much majority, if not all (including myself) who disliked or criticized how the harem went with this game, we're not complaining because we are harem haters.
But that we think the characterizations of several LIs took a hit because instead of harem being modified (into partial harem, throuple, some solo) to cater to the characterizations and individuality of each LI, the LIs characterizations were mass modified in order to cater to the full harem.
That, I think comes off as a detriment to the game more than positive (though I guess people who support full harem no matter what will disagree lol), which I feel is a shame.
And I do feel that especially given I like the game very much.
The forced harem direction and people's reaction to it I think is gonna leave the dev in real dilemma;
1) Stay the new course and plot all LIs into being open to harem (basically full-harem), despite their characterizations & relationship consistency taking a big hit due to it.
2) Reverse the previous update's full harem decision made with the Nina, Rachel, Sofia ambush scene (with Anne), and make the girls force MC into an ultimatum; i.e. you gotta pick one of us, can't have them all.
This is in order to try to rectify the hit the LIs characterizations took.
3) Stay the course of harem with Anna + Nina + Rachel + Sofia, but everyone else (like Lily for e.g.) sticks to solo romance; hence this becoming only partial harem, and not full harem.
Regardless of the choice that the dev makes, there will be dissatisfied party on every scenario - pretty much a lose-lose-lose and he has to pick whichever one is the least terrible.
For me, given consistency of LI's characterizations I find to be important, my preference is scenario 2, but I'm somehow getting the feeling it just won't happen (can't reverse spilled milk ).
Oh well.
Will still follow the game given I really liked the game and didn't have that much of criticism until the recent girls ambush update, but as I've said before it's a shame it has to go through this.
And despite what myself and others have said, it's not like we want the game to fail.
We want it to do better.
To add further to this, I think it can be said that pretty much majority, if not all (including myself) who disliked or criticized how the harem went with this game, we're not complaining because we are harem haters.
But that we think the characterizations of several LIs took a hit because instead of harem being modified (into partial harem, throuple, some solo) to cater to the characterizations and individuality of each LI, the LIs characterizations were mass modified in order to cater to the full harem.
That, I think comes off as a detriment to the game more than positive (though I guess people who support full harem no matter what will disagree lol), which I feel is a shame.
And I do feel that especially given I like the game very much.
The forced harem direction and people's reaction to it I think is gonna leave the dev in real dilemma;
1) Stay the new course and plot all LIs into being open to harem (basically full-harem), despite their characterizations & relationship consistency taking a big hit due to it.
2) Reverse the previous update's full harem decision made with the Nina, Rachel, Sofia ambush scene (with Anne), and make the girls force MC into an ultimatum; i.e. you gotta pick one of us, can't have them all.
This is in order to try to rectify the hit the LIs characterizations took.
3) Stay the course of harem with Anna + Nina + Rachel + Sofia, but everyone else (like Lily for e.g.) sticks to solo romance; hence this becoming only partial harem, and not full harem.
Regardless of the choice that the dev makes, there will be dissatisfied party on every scenario - pretty much a lose-lose-lose and he has to pick whichever one is the least terrible.
For me, given consistency of LI's characterizations I find to be important, my preference is scenario 2, but I'm somehow getting the feeling it just won't happen (can't reverse spilled milk ).
Oh well.
Will still follow the game given I really liked the game and didn't have that much of criticism until the recent girls ambush update, but as I've said before it's a shame it has to go through this.
And despite what myself and others have said, it's not like we want the game to fail.
We want it to do better.
To add further to this, I think it can be said that pretty much majority, if not all (including myself) who disliked or criticized how the harem went with this game, we're not complaining because we are harem haters.
But that we think the characterizations of several LIs took a hit because instead of harem being modified (into partial harem, throuple, some solo) to cater to the characterizations and individuality of each LI, the LIs characterizations were mass modified in order to cater to the full harem.
That, I think comes off as a detriment to the game more than positive (though I guess people who support full harem no matter what will disagree lol), which I feel is a shame.
And I do feel that especially given I like the game very much.
The forced harem direction and people's reaction to it I think is gonna leave the dev in real dilemma;
1) Stay the new course and plot all LIs into being open to harem (basically full-harem), despite their characterizations & relationship consistency taking a big hit due to it.
2) Reverse the previous update's full harem decision made with the Nina, Rachel, Sofia ambush scene (with Anne), and make the girls force MC into an ultimatum; i.e. you gotta pick one of us, can't have them all.
This is in order to try to rectify the hit the LIs characterizations took.
3) Stay the course of harem with Anna + Nina + Rachel + Sofia, but everyone else (like Lily for e.g.) sticks to solo romance; hence this becoming only partial harem, and not full harem.
Regardless of the choice that the dev makes, there will be dissatisfied party on every scenario - pretty much a lose-lose-lose and he has to pick whichever one is the least terrible.
For me, given consistency of LI's characterizations I find to be important, my preference is scenario 2, but I'm somehow getting the feeling it just won't happen (can't reverse spilled milk ).
Oh well.
Will still follow the game given I really liked the game and didn't have that much of criticism until the recent girls ambush update, but as I've said before it's a shame it has to go through this.
And despite what myself and others have said, it's not like we want the game to fail.
We want it to do better.
Not to be mean but your doing the exact same thing. read Jack Townsendpost and you will see that on different paths the characters act different so you saying they mass modified in order to cater to the full harem is not 100% true you just didnt play that path and thats fine. But when you say dev has to do 1 2 or 3 you are doing the same thing you are accusing the harem fans of. Why did it never cross your mind for the dev to implement 1 and 2. Both fit even if you want to ignore it. But yes i do believe that if you are not on that path then you should not get the ambush. But why is everyone acting like they cant both exist. Funny thing is harem fans are getting attack when you have no clue if the dev did this on his own. Also i have not seen one harem fan defending the forced scene but alot of others are crying how it doesnt fit when i guess they never tried that path. It has been explained that it was not just this update it has been building to this in this path. I repeat IN THIS PATH. Wow i know know what it feels like to be a ntr fan in a harem/ntr game because people are acting like it. Characters are allowed to act a bit different in different paths.
Not to be mean but your doing the exact same thing. read Jack Townsendpost and you will see that on different paths the characters act different so you saying they mass modified in order to cater to the full harem is not 100% true you just didnt play that path and thats fine. But when you say dev has to do 1 2 or 3 you are doing the same thing you are accusing the harem fans of. Why did it never cross your mind for the dev to implement 1 and 2. Both fit even if you want to ignore it. But yes i do believe that if you are not on that path then you should not get the ambush. But why is everyone acting like they cant both exist. Funny thing is harem fans are getting attack when you have no clue if the dev did this on his own. Also i have not seen one harem fan defending the forced scene but alot of others are crying how it doesnt fit when i guess they never tried that path. It has been explained that it was not just this update it has been building to this in this path. I repeat IN THIS PATH. Wow i know know what it feels like to be a ntr fan in a harem/ntr game because people are acting like it. Characters are allowed to act a bit different in different paths.
The scene actually makes very little sense if you only follow the route of one of the LIs. But if you've been trying to do a harem route the entire game, it turns out that it makes a lot more sense, even if it's not perfect.
The scene actually makes very little sense if you only follow the route of one of the LIs. But if you've been trying to do a harem route the entire game, it turns out that it makes a lot more sense, even if it's not perfect.
I was just getting mad because a lot of the post just ignored the fact that it did fit that path. And i have no clue why the dev did it this way. I dont thing anyone asked for this. Even on the path it fits but still feels rushed.
I have a suggestion to make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. It will sound bad, but please bear with me. Pursue as many relationship points as possible with all the other girls, but without having sex with any of them. That way you can stay technically faithful to your chosen girlfriend. And at the same time, make the confrontation scene make more emotional sense. Because the MC will have given them (intentionally or not) false hope. I know it's not the nicest path to take. But it does make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. And they can be glad that they didn't have to technically cheat on their girlfriend to do it. Hope this helps a little.
I have a suggestion to make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. It will sound bad, but please bear with me. Pursue as many relationship points as possible with all the other girls, but without having sex with any of them. That way you can stay technically faithful to your chosen girlfriend. And at the same time, make the confrontation scene make more emotional sense. Because the MC will have given them (intentionally or not) false hope. I know it's not the nicest path to take. But it does make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. And they can be glad that they didn't have to technically cheat on their girlfriend to do it. Hope this helps a little.
You're tackling this from the wrong direction. If the story only makes sense depending on certain choices by the players, the problem doesn't lie in players' choices, but in the writing of the story.
I was just getting mad because a lot of the post just ignored the fact that it did fit that path. And i have no clue why the dev did it this way. I dont thing anyone asked for this. Even on the path it fits but still feels rushed.
The path fits somewhat if the player is on it from the beginning AND ignores the already established and presented characters of the girls.
As said multiple times each of the girls taking part in the ambush is by her very own character NOT OK with a harem.
Sofia is basically a proud/greedy bitch/witch. She wants MC (and his dick) for herself.
Rachel is opposed to traditions of her species, including extramarital sex and sharing.
Nina does not like Rachel OR Sofia.
That is the main complaint I and many others have.
The scene actually makes very little sense if you only follow the route of one of the LIs. But if you've been trying to do a harem route the entire game, it turns out that it makes a lot more sense, even if it's not perfect.
In my opinion the scene should be different depending on the route each player has chosen for each LI. If, for example, the MC doesn't have any kind of romantic relationship with Sofia or Rachel, then they shouldn't be in the scene. In fact, if the MC doesn't have a relationship with any of the three, the scene is actually unnecessary.
I have a suggestion to make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. It will sound bad, but please bear with me. Pursue as many relationship points as possible with all the other girls, but without having sex with any of them. That way you can stay technically faithful to your chosen girlfriend. And at the same time, make the confrontation scene make more emotional sense. Because the MC will have given them (intentionally or not) false hope. I know it's not the nicest path to take. But it does make the confrontation scene work a little better for monogamous players. And they can be glad that they didn't have to technically cheat on their girlfriend to do it. Hope this helps a little.
The path fits somewhat if the player is on it from the beginning AND ignores the already established and presented characters of the girls.
As said multiple times each of the girls taking part in the ambush is by her very own character NOT OK with a harem.
Sofia is basically a proud/greedy bitch/witch. She wants MC (and his dick) for herself.
Rachel is opposed to traditions of her species, including extramarital sex and sharing.
Nina does not like Rachel OR Sofia.
That is the main complaint I and many others have.
Did you try the other path?
1- How did you come up with that. To me she just seemed like a tsundere with trust issues from the event with her ex.
2- Did Rachel ever say she was opposed or are you just assuming. Also forgetting the little fact that something is at play and she dyed her hair and dressed in black after the date.
3- She also did not like her ex but she was still with him till mc came around. He had a family name and guess what the mc has a bigger name.
You're tackling this from the wrong direction. If the story only makes sense depending on certain choices by the players, the problem doesn't lie in players' choices, but in the writing of the story.
Thats the thing if the dev needs the other characters for the main plot with the stone if you ignored all other characters how will it progress. Plus the fact that is a lot of paths if it comes down to a big bad that we have to stop that is a lot of things to keep track of. Not saying it justifies but wish the dev would say something.
Not to be mean but your doing the exact same thing. read Jack Townsendpost and you will see that on different paths the characters act different so you saying they mass modified in order to cater to the full harem is not 100% true you just didnt play that path and thats fine. But when you say dev has to do 1 2 or 3 you are doing the same thing you are accusing the harem fans of. Why did it never cross your mind for the dev to implement 1 and 2. Both fit even if you want to ignore it. But yes i do believe that if you are not on that path then you should not get the ambush. But why is everyone acting like they cant both exist. Funny thing is harem fans are getting attack when you have no clue if the dev did this on his own. Also i have not seen one harem fan defending the forced scene but alot of others are crying how it doesnt fit when i guess they never tried that path. It has been explained that it was not just this update it has been building to this in this path. I repeat IN THIS PATH. Wow i know know what it feels like to be a ntr fan in a harem/ntr game because people are acting like it. Characters are allowed to act a bit different in different paths.
lol dude, firstly use paragraphs.
It's a real migraine inducing reading your post posting non stop without paragraphs and breaks in between.
Secondly, no offense, but you really need to grow thicker skin if you think I am attacking you or people who want full harem. Previously I've said harsher things to other very well deserving people; if I was in tiger mode for those people, I'm literally in pussy cat mode for the recent posts I made regarding this thread.
As I've said before, I don't have a problem with full harem; as long as it's done well in the buildup to it, with LIs actually having good friendships, family ties and rapport for each other.
Games I referenced before Once in a Lifetime and Eternum are great examples of this.
There is a great buildup between each LIs relationships that starts from the first episode till around mid to late game.
However, this game has not a lot of that.
A lot of the LIs are in conflict with one another, only really interacting with the MC and thinking he's the one for them; to the point where they ask "Can we make it official?"
Those aspects, and without the noticeable female friendships for a lot of them already contradicts and hurts characterization.
And yes, the option is given to choose one girl in that ambush scene, but let me quote what Brannon said before;
The harem is not forced since the option to go solo with one of the girls is still there?
Thing is if MC chooses one of the solo answers he loses every girl, including the one he chose who "needs to trust him again" i.e. has her relationship reset.
And btw. even if there was merely a "Hi" to the other girls in the corridors before ...
The only somewhat positive outcome is the harem answer since MC gets the "need to trust him again" from all the girls instead of outright pissing off two or more of them.
"Harem is not forced because you have the option to select bad outcomes!"
Why are you choosing to ignore such aspect?
As he said just because there's option to select bad outcomes, doesn't mean harem isn't forced.
And no.
I don't agree that Scenario 1 and 2 are workable together; cause even if the player chooses say for example, Nina in that ambush scene with all other girls relationship reset (well in terms of journal entries at least, "fatally damaged relationship"), she still has the following scene regardless before the ambush;
Now how does this scene even make sense, when Nina was clearly very upset with MC for messing around with other girls?
Even if the player chooses her in that ambush scene, this scene remains which is a complete U-turn of her characterization, contradicting pretty much everything Nina was before - to add, this is just one example, out of many lol.
And as I said before, not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.
There is no positive relationship whatsoever like in OIAL or Eternum which has that in spades between each LIs.
No, I don't think a character changing drastically like this works, even as you said "different paths" because of foundation of Nina (and Sofia and etc etc), unless it's that these LIs have multiple personality disorders
So at the end of it all, you're free to interpret my post however you wish (whether as an attack or not).
You think it works from your end?
Well, that's good for you.
But I myself (and others who feel very differently about it) am not gonna filter what I say just because some folks may feel hurt by me calling out what I think is a detriment in terms of the direction that the dev took (whether it was intentional from dev himself, or whether he caved to full harem people's outcries, due to back in that Nina mad scene).
As others have said already, this is a forum, and there will be people who agree or disagree with your opinions, obviously.
Having said that, let me give you a piece of advice; there are several other people on this forum who are a lot meaner & harsher than me.
If you get mad or upset with that I said (which I myself don't even count as an attack; devs caving into a subset of his/her fans is nothing new), well I just don't see it going well for you with some much, much worse people of the zone.
p.s. And here I thought I was a pussy cat (for quite a while now)! Meow!
First Mc does not have a harem yet and by your logic it is solo only because ( not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.) forgetting the fact Sofia and lisa have a path together from early on and they hate each other.
NO ONE SAID THE AMBUSH WAS GOOD
But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.
If the mc can get Sofia and lisa to have a throuple path (variable set early in game) why is it so hard for you to see a path that mc gets them to get along.
First Mc does not have a harem yet and by your logic it is solo only because ( not like there good relationship between Nina with Rachel and Sofia. At best they're total strangers, and at worst, they're antagonistic towards each other with each vying to snatch MC for themselves.) forgetting the fact Sofia and lisa have a path together from early on and they hate each other.
NO ONE SAID THE AMBUSH WAS GOOD
But you clearly can look at it from the other paths it is not kinetic different choices have different outcomes. Have you never played a game with different paths some times characters act different on different paths.
If the mc can get Sofia and lisa to have a throuple path (variable set early in game) why is it so hard for you to see a path that mc gets them to get along.
#1 Lily not Lisa
#2 The different paths for solo are ... present but that's about it. Whether you choose Sofia or Rachel apart from flavor text it is basically the very same.
#3 The damage is done at that point. The girls showed their "New and Improved!" characters. In some sense what the player gets now is not what he was promised/worked for.
#1 Lily not Lisa
#2 The different paths for solo are ... present but that's about it. Whether you choose Sofia or Rachel apart from flavor text it is basically the very same.
#3 The damage is done at that point. The girls showed their "New and Improved!" characters. In some sense what the player gets now is not what he was promised/worked for.
).
