Most likely the two onis. Threshold already has their art, but he needs to code it in. He might add one of the three mountain succubi as well.
Ren'Py Monster Girl Dreams [v26.6 Alpha] [Threshold]
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- Dec 20, 2017
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This piece of lore will likely be expanded upon in the future, Elly may be a source of some information regarding the enchantment eventually. But to give an answer now, the enchantment that prevents harm works off of intent to a degree, so while armor may be meant to protect the wearer, armor with offensive additions would likely register as intent to harm since one could argue the only reason for such an inclusion would be to harm others by either luring them into coming into contact with the wearer or the wearer of such armor trying to initiate contact with their opponent.
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Hopefully once more official statements are added to the game, all of your questions will be answered, but until then, I hope that you find this useful, HTYYHRK.
That is correct, but some of this will get into spoiler territory.
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But back to more salient points, manipulating the soul is a blind spot in the enchantment. It is now illegal to fully consume a soul, although there is paperwork to allow a succubus a limited license to remove a soul and essentially keep the willing male in a permanent dreamscape honeymoon while the succubus derives all the nourishment she needs from the spirit constantly produced by said soul. On a related note, another type of monster girl can also interact with souls. Devils can also remove souls but rather than eat them like Succubi are able to do, Devils instead can control and manipulate the body of the individual whose soul they stole.
As for how this bypasses the enchantment, it would be difficult to say for certain. However, one could argue that removing the soul is not inherently harmful given it can be restored without any lasting effects or harm. Fully consuming the soul is harmful of course given that would result in the death of the body, but given it is not directly causing damage and is instead the destruction of a less tangible existence, it is able to bypass the barrier. As for the reason for this, couldn't really say for certain, but if the soul is indistinguishable from the spiritual energy it produces, then that would be one potential reason for this blind spot in the enchantment given that many types of monster girls can either feed on spiritual energy or said energy is their sole source of nourishment.
I'll admit this is a mixture of in game information, statements, and some speculation, but I do hope that everyone interested in this finds it informative.
- Oct 24, 2017
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Yeah, this all tracks with what seems logical. The mention of going to the capital to fill out paperwork is kinda throwing me for a loop, because all we've seen of the monsters so far is hanging out in the occasional outpost or just wandering around. Of course I know that the city exists, but there hasn't been much in the way of detailing the minutia of monster society. (I am looking forward to seeing more of it)
- Dec 20, 2017
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Hello everyone, here's a little a good and mixed on a pair of additions to the upcoming update. The mixed news is that Lillian is having her content revised a little due to feedback as a number of users have found Lillian to be a little jarring and not coming off as Threshold has intended. How that will ultimately take shape is not quite known yet, but if you've found Lillian's presence a little problematic after her most recent update, rejoice, for her content is being tweaked. Of course, this is just mixed news as this means the scope of the update has increased and existing content is being reworked rather than new additions being penned for Elena and Elly.
As for the good news, a new system has been added that will allow for palette swaps and variant art to be used for characters. As an example, in the future when one enters the imp den, the imps may have a variety of colors rather than all just having pink hair. The primary motivation for this addition at this time was feedback once again as Aiko did not appear as how some players imagined her based off her description. So Aiko now has three different pieces of artwork all by the same artist, the artwork she currently has in game, another with her displaying a thicker form with an even more voluptuous figure, and a third that provides her with a pleasantly plump physique for those with a preference for women being a little plush.
I do hope that everyone interested in this information finds this a little useful.
As for the good news, a new system has been added that will allow for palette swaps and variant art to be used for characters. As an example, in the future when one enters the imp den, the imps may have a variety of colors rather than all just having pink hair. The primary motivation for this addition at this time was feedback once again as Aiko did not appear as how some players imagined her based off her description. So Aiko now has three different pieces of artwork all by the same artist, the artwork she currently has in game, another with her displaying a thicker form with an even more voluptuous figure, and a third that provides her with a pleasantly plump physique for those with a preference for women being a little plush.
I do hope that everyone interested in this information finds this a little useful.
- Jul 15, 2018
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Oh man, that's great. I already love how there's a decent amount of body variety in the game, especially in regards to the more muscular girls (Belle content when?), but thought it was lacking in the chubby/plump/fat department.
- Aug 23, 2016
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- Dec 20, 2017
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Personally, I'm curious to see how the current Lillian would have developed as the story went forward. However, the criticisms being levied are that Lillian comes off as a psychopath that is close to the point of being committed due to various elements. Some criticisms hold that she is too delusional with regards to the lurid reality of the continent of Lucidia and the town protecting her views such as Amber not allowing her into the shop or Vivian having an empty cafe area for Lillian devoid of debauchery. Then some add in the scene where she sighs before using magic to hurl a guy hitting on her out of the Church and then returns to her usual cheerful demeanor as she makes her way to the player as further signs of instability.
Other scenes pointed to are her altering the statue of Venereae that was in the Church to be more inline with the Purity doctrine rather than the true religion of Venereae, her driving off the other priests and priestesses that were supposed to be stationed there, and her decrying Lucille as an evil demon when she tries to tell Lillian some truths, to some users all of these various elements make her come off as quite unstable. Then when combined with her dislike of most monster girls other than the pure and noble elves, some feel that she is one step away from a Deus Vult or Purge the Heresy rampage.
Of course, this is actually not the first time Lillian sparked controversy that led to a rewrite. Before the recent update for her, Lillian's previous scene for rewarding the player with the Demon Layer just involved an imp shaped training dummy. However, before that, there was a scene where Lillian captured an actual imp and was practicing using the Demon Layer on said imp while interrogating her. Here's the scene for those who are curious:
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So Lillian's initial content runs have a history of being intense and precipitating feedback that leads to content tweaks. What the result will be this time I couldn't say for certain, but however it turns out, it is something to look forward to.
I do hope that this answers your question in a satisfactory fashion, Belphegor007.
- Aug 23, 2016
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- Oct 24, 2017
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Personally, I saw some interesting possibilities in Lillian's behavior. While I can see that a religious extremist could be offputting, it seems fitting, given the setting. Someone motivated by dogma (Even if that dogma is a misinterpretation of the intended meaning) set against forces that act like the monsters do, would by contrast make themselves ultra chaste as a result. That said, if the intention is to write Lillian as a misguided, but ultimatley harmless and endearing character, I can see why she might be rewritten. I guess then it's up to what the intention is.
- Jul 15, 2018
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Lillian has always been an interesting character to interact with. I kinda feel like she was influenced by Monster Girl Quest's Ilias devotees who seemed to be completely blind to the way the world "actually" worked. It provides an interesting comparison to the other characters who acknowledge, but are not fond of, the lewd nature of the combat & enchantment (like Kyra).
I understand the issues people have with her character. She comes across as the worst kind of religious nutjob, refusing to acknowledge or understand the intricacies of the worship she has so thoroughly devoted herself to. It feels like an unfortunate parallel to real-world issues that just seem out-of-place for the game where you're just trying to have fun sexy interactions with monster girls. (I'm not the kind to say that political manners should stay out of media, but when it comes to porn-y stuff I'd rather not have to deal with it.)
Also not the biggest fan of the implications behind Vivian and Amber "protecting her innocence." It simultaneously makes them seem worse for keeping up the charade that's ultimately damaging to the monster girls living in the town, and makes Lillian feel even more like a "jail-bait" character.
With all that said, it'll be interesting to see the direction this character goes in the end. Maybe have Lillian be the "innocent pervert" type, where she cutely and happily encourages you to go out and satisfy all the girls you can (in the name of the Goddess!), or maybe make her surprisingly well-balanced where she shows a deeper understanding of all the aspects of Venerae but doesn't come across as aggressively horny like Vivian. (Also, after typing out the names, but "Vivian" and "Lillian" seem pretty close name-wise, I feel like it'd be interesting if they were "polar opposite" sisters, but combined with Elena & Elly + the Oni sisters, there'd certainly be a lot of sisters around...)
I understand the issues people have with her character. She comes across as the worst kind of religious nutjob, refusing to acknowledge or understand the intricacies of the worship she has so thoroughly devoted herself to. It feels like an unfortunate parallel to real-world issues that just seem out-of-place for the game where you're just trying to have fun sexy interactions with monster girls. (I'm not the kind to say that political manners should stay out of media, but when it comes to porn-y stuff I'd rather not have to deal with it.)
Also not the biggest fan of the implications behind Vivian and Amber "protecting her innocence." It simultaneously makes them seem worse for keeping up the charade that's ultimately damaging to the monster girls living in the town, and makes Lillian feel even more like a "jail-bait" character.
With all that said, it'll be interesting to see the direction this character goes in the end. Maybe have Lillian be the "innocent pervert" type, where she cutely and happily encourages you to go out and satisfy all the girls you can (in the name of the Goddess!), or maybe make her surprisingly well-balanced where she shows a deeper understanding of all the aspects of Venerae but doesn't come across as aggressively horny like Vivian. (Also, after typing out the names, but "Vivian" and "Lillian" seem pretty close name-wise, I feel like it'd be interesting if they were "polar opposite" sisters, but combined with Elena & Elly + the Oni sisters, there'd certainly be a lot of sisters around...)
- Oct 24, 2017
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I've ruminated a bit on Lillian's character, and the topic of how well written she is. My conclusion now also add that this depends on how seriously we're supposed to be taking the setting. To preemptively clarify, by serious, I mean mainly that we're to think of things as though we're in a real place, interacting with real people, and hearing of, witnessing, and taking part in real events.
If the intention is that the lore and character details are more just the creative legwork needed to facilitate the fantasy of battle fucking and regular fucking a whole lotta monster girls and a few human girls. Then Lillian's writing more or less gets the job done regardless. Her more unsettling qualities, if they're supposed to be endearing, are sort of like the Yandere trope. Fine if we don't think about it too hard, but quickly falls apart when we do.
In a more serious interpretation of the game, then her character is well written mostly if there isn't much in the way of authorial intnent attached to how we're supposed to react. If she is written as is for us to interpret as we will. It's if she's supposed to get a specific reaction is when her character starts to fall apart. I guess since she's being rewritten, then whatever the intent with both her and the setting at large is, then she in some way failed to be what the writer set out for her to be.
If the intention is that the lore and character details are more just the creative legwork needed to facilitate the fantasy of battle fucking and regular fucking a whole lotta monster girls and a few human girls. Then Lillian's writing more or less gets the job done regardless. Her more unsettling qualities, if they're supposed to be endearing, are sort of like the Yandere trope. Fine if we don't think about it too hard, but quickly falls apart when we do.
In a more serious interpretation of the game, then her character is well written mostly if there isn't much in the way of authorial intnent attached to how we're supposed to react. If she is written as is for us to interpret as we will. It's if she's supposed to get a specific reaction is when her character starts to fall apart. I guess since she's being rewritten, then whatever the intent with both her and the setting at large is, then she in some way failed to be what the writer set out for her to be.
- Dec 7, 2018
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Until I read the post that people thought Lillian's character wasn't serious enough and the imp whipping was too silly I didn't realize anyone thought we were supposed to take the setting or characters seriously. The game is basically putting up a billboard saying that the whole situation is a show for some purpose of the Demon Queen, all the people we encounter are either participating to survive or actively willing, and we're in very little real danger no matter the situation. As a plot that's fine, the game uses it to inject fun into otherwise serious or scary situations, and so it can have characters that take character tropes to the extreme. Like, something's wrong with Lillian being adorably naive to the nth degree, but Evelyn being an alcoholic bureaucrat that complains about the paperwork when you tell her the Demon Queen's right hand woman nearly killed you is OK? Perpetua being a ridiculous Tsundere (or whatever the Japanese term for female rival is) in a completely childish way is fine, but Lillian is too childish?
Honestly, I'm happy with some characters being straight out of a Monty Python sketch, it's funny and keeps the game lighthearted.
- Oct 24, 2017
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I've been focusing mainly on Lillian, and her writing problems/lack thereof depending on where you stand. But this can apply to others as well.
But, one thing, I think the supposed issue is that her being a religious extremist is more of an unsettling aspect of her character rather than just childish. It paints the town wide conspiracy to keep her from learning about what a pile of degenerates they all are in a worrying light. That she might snap and do something dangerous to herself or others instead of it just being a comedic situation where a bunch of people are trying to keep her innocence intact.
Perpetua being the way she is seems more or less fine regardless of how immersed you are in the setting. She's a goofball with a harmless delusion of grandure and if we are taking things seriously, her antics still make sense as something that would happen in a real world with these fantastical elements.
I am of mixed opinion about Evelyn and some of her reactions. She's actually one of the character's I'd like to see a bit more personal dialogue with. I don't think any one thing with her has super worrying implications if we're taking her seriously, but at the same time I can't recall much in the way of us getting to know her inner thoughts like with Lillian, so eh.
All things considered, I don't take the setting like every little detail is supposed to be a facet of a real place that could be. But, the fact that some of these characters have real hardships or flaws leads me to think that we ought to not just write off everything as a silly cartoon world.
You're trying to paint this all with a vaguely intellectual brush, and falling short. It's a porn game. None of it needs to be examined as a piece of classic literature.
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- Oct 24, 2017
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I'm not going to deny being a weirdo who likes to overthink things that probably don't need to be analyzed this deeply. But, the game is still a story, it still has lore, characters with at least some thought put into their history and current views, and at least the skeleton of a plot. You're definetly not wrong for not being as weird as I am, but analysis is still an aspect of the entertainment I consume that I enjoy
I can't argue with such an honest and earnest response.
In which case, don't let me hold you back!
- Dec 7, 2018
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Perhaps my problem is that I like trope-y characters played for laughs, like the scene that was rewritten to be less funny and the idea that all the people in town feel bad for her so they go out of their way to avoid breaking her innocence. So, that translates into me being annoyed that something I like got changed to something I like less to appease someone else, and leaves me wondering why the people complaining have a problem with a "religious extremist" but not with everyone else being a rapist. I guess I just don't understand why people would actively petition for a character to be less interesting.
For sake of argument, let's say she would react in an extreme way if her world was shattered by learning Evelyn held hands with someone before marriage. There are a ton of interesting ways that could go that work for the setting. For example, she could redouble her efforts to find ways to purify others and teach you new holy spells. She could go try to fight a succubus and you need to go save her, and she learns to be less prudish along the way.
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- Oct 24, 2017
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You've got a good point. I do personally enjoy Lillian's characterization both on a haha person does silly thing level and thinking about her more deeply and how someone with her viewpoints managed to get where she is. And her being potentially dangerous is more a possibility, not quite my honest interpretation. Where I would argue is more the equivalency of this to rape being such a large portion of the setting.
In our world, you'd be spot on with being annoyed that one is considered ok but not the other. But I reckon that given the enchantment, and thus fucking becoming the alternative to conventional violence, it's not quite on the same level. While on a grand meta level, it might be just as bad, as the player character went into the continent without knowing about the enchantment. But for the most part, it's the moral equivalent of conventional violence, in a setting where two opposing factions are fighting. It's not like you're just minding your own business and getting jumped, you as an adventurer are effectively an enemy soldier in a land where you happen to fight with naughty bits instead of weapons.
- Dec 20, 2017
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This world and setting are being written in ways that can support people that just want to accept a light-hearted world of sex battles with beautiful monster girls and those who want to take things more seriously and examine it more critically. Disgaea and Kirby are serving as inspirations for how the story, lore, and setting are being built. Essentially there is a nice, fluffy veneer there to make the world look happy, enjoyable, outlandish, and so on, but if you start to dig deeper, this quickly falls apart and the setting is much darker than it initially appears or would look if one just accepts what happens at face value.
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So while the continent of Lucidia does largely just appear to be a generally nice and safe location filled with delightful romps of sex as battles rather than fighting with sword, claw, fang, and spell, this more comforting facade is only a relatively recent development due to the work of a few more contemporary demon queens like the former one who tried to steer the world towards peace and the current Demon Queen who is allegedly responsible for the non-violence enchantment which prevents more traditional war efforts from functioning on Lucidia. Not to mention the fact that this sweet, fluffy coating quickly starts to fall away if you go digging around for lore and learn more about the world and its history at large.
I do hope that you find this informative, Mustang Flex.
- Oct 24, 2017
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It's cool that the game's writing facilitates both casual players who want to get to the (pretty good) sex battles and smut, and people who like to dig in an go over the world with a magnifying lens. I wouldn't quite interpret the world as secretly a nightmarish hellscape, at least, not any more than our world is and was. Personally, I take a more hopeful message with the contrast between how things are now vs the setting's past both recent and distant. The bloodshed's mostly in the past, people like Sophia who were alive in those times are activley seeking to become better people, and in general the only people who don't seem to prefer the way fighting works are mostly innocents who don't really understand how terrible war truly is. I also totally missed that bit with the cell phone, assuming it to be just some piece of magic working in place of tech, that raises some interesting implications I'll have to think about.
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