4.20 star(s) 53 Votes

aoeusnth

Newbie
Oct 16, 2018
34
44
133
We are against sex-on-loss
The problem with sex-on-loss isn't really sex-on-loss as such, it's the motivations of player and PC not lining up, causing narrative dissonance: Player wants hero to get laid, hero wants to be a hero, getting laid is getting in the way of that. Narratively that either requires corruption-like mechanics (which get out of hand and banal quickly) or the hero being bad at being a hero, and that's not cool, but there's a rule of cool so that's lame.

So it's good to be careful with that kind of mechanic but OTOH, personally I wouldn't rule out sex-on-loss completely, but use it when appropriate, when it makes an enemy narratively interesting, when it adds variety. Make sure that it's not a reward the player is seeking. Like, make it a wrong kind of sex, an inconvenient kind of sex, boring kind of sex, sex that isn't exclusive to a lose condition so there's literally no incentive to lose on purpose, you could just *ask* and you'd get fucked twice as hard with twice as many options, or win and get fucked thrice as hard. Always have a carrot of more of what the player wants which can be achieved by winning, but don't limit yourself in the sense of "no enemy would ever take advantage of our hero" as that can get into the way of having interesting enemies. The stick doesn't need to be a stick, it can be a smaller carrot.
 

QuestionableTaste

New Member
Jun 15, 2024
2
1
71
It's just two people, me - the programmer and milkee - the artist.
We are on URP currently and we try to take advantage of all the bells and whistles that SRPs come with, like render passes, adaptive probe volumes and so on.
Joy for Adaptive Probe Volumes, they can help simplify light set up a lot. That and Unity's GPU Resident Drawer was a nice set of features. Between that and now being able to use Compute Shaders to speed up somethings for WebGPU builds while using the VFX Graph, things are becoming easier for custom rendering logic.

You guys got a lot done and it is looking good for early game play. Not sure if you ever plan to look for more devs to join the project, but I be interesting in something like it. Been looking for a project using URP and the newer render passes API. Kind of hard to find devs that are actually already jumping on the newer Render Graph and actually want to use the updated URP systems. Lot of teams are not sure about upgrading to the new API added in the 6.x series.

No matter wish you luck on the project, so far it is looking pretty good.
 
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fDaimon

Newbie
Dec 2, 2023
28
50
114
The problem with sex-on-loss isn't really sex-on-loss as such, it's the motivations of player and PC not lining up, causing narrative dissonance: Player wants hero to get laid, hero wants to be a hero, getting laid is getting in the way of that. Narratively that either requires corruption-like mechanics (which get out of hand and banal quickly) or the hero being bad at being a hero, and that's not cool, but there's a rule of cool so that's lame.

So it's good to be careful with that kind of mechanic but OTOH, personally I wouldn't rule out sex-on-loss completely, but use it when appropriate, when it makes an enemy narratively interesting, when it adds variety. Make sure that it's not a reward the player is seeking. Like, make it a wrong kind of sex, an inconvenient kind of sex, boring kind of sex, sex that isn't exclusive to a lose condition so there's literally no incentive to lose on purpose, you could just *ask* and you'd get fucked twice as hard with twice as many options, or win and get fucked thrice as hard. Always have a carrot of more of what the player wants which can be achieved by winning, but don't limit yourself in the sense of "no enemy would ever take advantage of our hero" as that can get into the way of having interesting enemies. The stick doesn't need to be a stick, it can be a smaller carrot.
Awesome explanation of what is wrong with the rewarding failure mechanics in lots of adult games. You put that a lot more eloquently than I could have.
 

TitleA_A

Member
Apr 27, 2020
240
416
131
The problem with sex-on-loss isn't really sex-on-loss as such...

Awesome explanation of what is wrong with the rewarding failure mechanics in lots of adult games. You put that a lot more eloquently than I could have.
i don't think this is a good take.
it is a take, for sure.
another opinion about preference and so on.

i'm not sure any amount of text or cute example images would change the mind of a dev.
a dev typically likes what they like and they won't implement something they don't already find somewhat arousing or appealing - even more so after reading a devs reasons for not including it in the first place.

some people, or many.. when given a good visual example of defeated states in games, simply find it arousing or appealing because watching a well designed character try their best to:
do the thing.. achieve the goal.. defeat the enemy..
only to be handled by an obstacle, is in and of itself - sexy.
it's simply arousing and gets a player going.
i can play through Succubus Heaven and enjoy the game by clearing a successful playthrough.
i can also get the intended satisfaction out of THE PORN GAME by seeing the characters be defeated by the many different enemies and obstacles in the game - the appeal isn't exclusive to the sex, it's the act of seeing the pretty girl defeated.

i think if others enjoy those aspects the way i do.. sometimes, we actively play the game quite loosely, where we are completely okay with seeing the heroine(s) not succeed, because seeing them defeated (for the wide scope of what that word means) is nice!
like, shooting loads nice. :)

"Oh no~
Look at our heroine doing her absolute best!
Such a shame to see her falling over into these lovely, compromising positions.. :whistle:
with no strength to continue.." :sneaky:

i understand this is just how i feel about it.
no different than how every time i see someone misunderstand "rewarding defeat".
it's just how some see it and they don't see the appeal the way others do.

just a little surprised a stealth game with emphasis on a cheek clapping mouse, may not consider knockouts and freecam.
the product may not be for me.. but it could be.
 

fDaimon

Newbie
Dec 2, 2023
28
50
114
i don't think this is a good take.
it is a take, for sure.
another opinion about preference and so on.

i'm not sure any amount of text or cute example images would change the mind of a dev.
a dev typically likes what they like and they won't implement something they don't already find somewhat arousing or appealing - even more so after reading a devs reasons for not including it in the first place.

some people, or many.. when given a good visual example of defeated states in games, simply find it arousing or appealing because watching a well designed character try their best to:
do the thing.. achieve the goal.. defeat the enemy..
only to be handled by an obstacle, is in and of itself - sexy.
it's simply arousing and gets a player going.
i can play through Succubus Heaven and enjoy the game by clearing a successful playthrough.
i can also get the intended satisfaction out of THE PORN GAME by seeing the characters be defeated by the many different enemies and obstacles in the game - the appeal isn't exclusive to the sex, it's the act of seeing the pretty girl defeated.

i think if others enjoy those aspects the way i do.. sometimes, we actively play the game quite loosely, where we are completely okay with seeing the heroine(s) not succeed, because seeing them defeated (for the wide scope of what that word means) is nice!
like, shooting loads nice. :)

"Oh no~
Look at our heroine doing her absolute best!
Such a shame to see her falling over into these lovely, compromising positions.. :whistle:
with no strength to continue.." :sneaky:

i understand this is just how i feel about it.
no different than how every time i see someone misunderstand "rewarding defeat".
it's just how some see it and they don't see the appeal the way others do.

just a little surprised a stealth game with emphasis on a cheek clapping mouse, may not consider knockouts and freecam.
the product may not be for me.. but it could be.
I respect your opinion and get where you're coming from. Maybe I was heavy handed in panning any game with rewarding failure mechanics. To me if it is part of the natural progression or story line I am okay with it for the most part. My personal issue with failure mechanics is a lot of adult games just have either bad gameplay loops or frustrating controls. Combine that with if failure consumes lives/health or some other similar resource. Reward you with the content you likely came for but then also punish you by treating it as a death and resetting progress (restart a level or game over).

I haven't played your example Succubus Heaven but if regular gameplay itself is enjoyable then I can totally accept that. Perhaps I haven't played enough of a variety.

It appears the dev in this case has not entirely ruled out the guards in future maps doing things to the player in some way so it may fulfill your desires eventually.
 

Artix0

Well-Known Member
Modder
Jun 26, 2017
1,206
2,369
401
some people, or many.. when given a good visual example of defeated states in games, simply find it arousing or appealing because watching a well designed character try their best to:
do the thing.. achieve the goal.. defeat the enemy..
only to be handled by an obstacle, is in and of itself - sexy.
it's simply arousing and gets a player going.
i can play through Succubus Heaven and enjoy the game by clearing a successful playthrough.
i can also get the intended satisfaction out of THE PORN GAME by seeing the characters be defeated by the many different enemies and obstacles in the game - the appeal isn't exclusive to the sex, it's the act of seeing the pretty girl defeated.
Damn, this was really well put!! Couldn't agree more.

It's likely something of a moot point as Milkshake++ has made their position clear, something I appreciate and respect. But just translating the idea into a theoretical 'what I'd have loved in an alternate universe Mousetrap', I'd:
  • Enjoy playing well, completing questlines and earning their specific sex scenes
  • ALSO enjoy making mistakes, seeing Ratalie get 'handled' by the guards, have to offer sexual favours to get out of sticky situations, or simply get her cheeks clapped lmao
I think for porn games specifically, discovering and collecting the different 'loss/failure' scenes is an enjoyable challenge in and of itself, and so you're absolutely right that it kinda adds a whole new dimension of fun to the porn side of the porn game. Come to think of it, almost all of the games I've bought or supported have that aspect.

It also harkens back to those early days of playing Tomb Raider etc. and thinking, 'Damn, I'm enjoying playing this game and winning. But also, when Lara gets beaten by these horny henchmen, I kinda wish they'd just... take the initiative :BootyTime:'

Anyway, Mousetrap has its own direction and it may or may not be a game I wish to buy eventually depending how much sex content it gets (especially non-futa), but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it just in case. The artistic direction is goddamn gorgeous.
 
Last edited:

Arkus86

Member
Jun 3, 2018
359
578
277
There is a lot of people who love having defeat scenes, and meaningful consequences to defeat in general, myself included. But at the same time there is a lot of people who hate having to lose, to get to the juicy content or to collect all scenes, which I fully understand.

Nevertheless, the devs have made their stance clear, so I think it's pointless to keep arguing the point to this degree, don't you think?
Players have asked for it. Devs responded defeat-sex or, more likely, other mechanics in its place are considered, just not on the Mansion map. Let's leave it at that.
 

Milkshake++

Newbie
Game Developer
Jul 17, 2024
33
510
110
i don't think this is a good take.
it is a take, for sure.
another opinion about preference and so on.

i'm not sure any amount of text or cute example images would change the mind of a dev.
a dev typically likes what they like and they won't implement something they don't already find somewhat arousing or appealing - even more so after reading a devs reasons for not including it in the first place.

some people, or many.. when given a good visual example of defeated states in games, simply find it arousing or appealing because watching a well designed character try their best to:
do the thing.. achieve the goal.. defeat the enemy..
only to be handled by an obstacle, is in and of itself - sexy.
it's simply arousing and gets a player going.
i can play through Succubus Heaven and enjoy the game by clearing a successful playthrough.
i can also get the intended satisfaction out of THE PORN GAME by seeing the characters be defeated by the many different enemies and obstacles in the game - the appeal isn't exclusive to the sex, it's the act of seeing the pretty girl defeated.

i think if others enjoy those aspects the way i do.. sometimes, we actively play the game quite loosely, where we are completely okay with seeing the heroine(s) not succeed, because seeing them defeated (for the wide scope of what that word means) is nice!
like, shooting loads nice. :)

"Oh no~
Look at our heroine doing her absolute best!
Such a shame to see her falling over into these lovely, compromising positions.. :whistle:
with no strength to continue.." :sneaky:

i understand this is just how i feel about it.
no different than how every time i see someone misunderstand "rewarding defeat".
it's just how some see it and they don't see the appeal the way others do.

just a little surprised a stealth game with emphasis on a cheek clapping mouse, may not consider knockouts and freecam.
the product may not be for me.. but it could be.
We actually plan on adding freecam as a "photo mode" option, if that's what you mean!

I respect your opinion and get where you're coming from. Maybe I was heavy handed in panning any game with rewarding failure mechanics. To me if it is part of the natural progression or story line I am okay with it for the most part. My personal issue with failure mechanics is a lot of adult games just have either bad gameplay loops or frustrating controls. Combine that with if failure consumes lives/health or some other similar resource. Reward you with the content you likely came for but then also punish you by treating it as a death and resetting progress (restart a level or game over).

I haven't played your example Succubus Heaven but if regular gameplay itself is enjoyable then I can totally accept that. Perhaps I haven't played enough of a variety.

It appears the dev in this case has not entirely ruled out the guards in future maps doing things to the player in some way so it may fulfill your desires eventually.
Damn, this was really well put!! Couldn't agree more.

It's likely something of a moot point as Milkshake++ has made their position clear, something I appreciate and respect. But just translating the idea into a theoretical 'what I'd have loved in an alternate universe Mousetrap', I'd:
  • Enjoy playing well, completing questlines and earning their specific sex scenes
  • ALSO enjoy making mistakes, seeing Ratalie get 'handled' by the guards, have to offer sexual favours to get out of sticky situations, or simply get her cheeks clapped lmao
I think for porn games specifically, discovering and collecting the different 'loss/failure' scenes is an enjoyable challenge in and of itself, and so you're absolutely right that it kinda adds a whole new dimension of fun to the porn side of the porn game. Come to think of it, almost all of the games I've bought or supported have that aspect.

It also harkens back to those early days of playing Tomb Raider etc. and thinking, 'Damn, I'm enjoying playing this game and winning. But also, when Lara gets beaten by these horny henchmen, I kinda wish they'd just... take the initiative :BootyTime:'

Anyway, Mousetrap has its own direction and it may or may not be a game I wish to buy eventually depending how much sex content it gets (especially non-futa), but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it just in case. The artistic direction is goddamn gorgeous.

A lot of what we have planned is still subject to change - ideas evolve, tastes shift, and new inspirations come and go. We're still in the very early stages of development, and that means nothing is set in stone. As we go forward, things will naturally change based on what we like, what we don’t, and the feedback we receive from all of you.


I read all the feedback we get - whether it's here, on itch, discord, or elsewhere. When certain suggestions come up often, I try to seriously consider them and see if they could fit into the game in the future (unless it's something I personally feel strongly against).


Thank you to everyone who’s taken the time to share their thoughts and ideas! Hearing different perspectives not only helps us shape the game - it also sparks new ideas and directions we might not have considered otherwise.
 

D0v4hk1n

Active Member
Oct 4, 2017
879
1,227
246
We actually plan on adding freecam as a "photo mode" option, if that's what you mean!





A lot of what we have planned is still subject to change - ideas evolve, tastes shift, and new inspirations come and go. We're still in the very early stages of development, and that means nothing is set in stone. As we go forward, things will naturally change based on what we like, what we don’t, and the feedback we receive from all of you.


I read all the feedback we get - whether it's here, on itch, discord, or elsewhere. When certain suggestions come up often, I try to seriously consider them and see if they could fit into the game in the future (unless it's something I personally feel strongly against).


Thank you to everyone who’s taken the time to share their thoughts and ideas! Hearing different perspectives not only helps us shape the game - it also sparks new ideas and directions we might not have considered otherwise.
Here is my feedback

The game is great. Even though it's still in EA it has a lot of charm I think. I love sneaking around and I think this proof of concept can turn into a great game.

I wouldn't mind sex on defeat. It makes sense.So there can be two options. Femdom on success or defeat sex on loss. Lots of options!

Realistically though, people should wait for at least a year before the game wows them as this would give more time for devs to work.

Feedback is great but at the end of the day the dev should make what he would want to play and, of course, fap to.
 

coscath

Newbie
Jan 3, 2020
21
21
125
Can we have an option to turn off the minimap?
They often end up being a crutch that is relied on way too much and detracting from the actual level design.
It also makes it trivial to avoid the guards as it clearly gives you all their line of sight information, even through walls.
I would prefer a static map somewhere with just the layout and rooms so I can look up where a quest is telling me to go.
I never have any issues navigating complicated maps so my experience may differ to people who always get lost in games.
 

SewerRat

Newbie
Nov 28, 2022
77
189
134
The "sex-on-lose" mechanic is very old, but still has a place in modern games, if done correctly.

This mechanic can work well with a game's gameplay. Mostly effectively used in female protagonist games where you have a health bar, stamina bar, cum bar or a lust bar showing a resource gauge that once fulfilled will trigger an event. It could be a game over event, but more interestingly is when it's used for something that costs the player just a small setback. A life token lost, a recovery period of time, a status condition applied, or to struggle free. This keeps the game progressing at an enjoyable rate while injecting a measured amount of sexy stuff into it. Allowing the player to control it's frequency through gameplay.

But, on the other hand, the worst examples I've seen of this mechanic are from old Japanese games. Having to lose the whole game session to see a new CG scene, or to unlock a gallery item is just the worst feeling while playing, and it really sours a game's overall feel. Pitting the game's progress against the sexy stuff, excluding one for the other, so if you wanted to progress the game, you needed to ignore the sexy events and sigma push on... is sickness and needs to be admonished.

Or, maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about and people just wanna see more female dominate sex. A "sex-on-win" mechanic if you will. But, that doesn't sound like the right kind of atmosphere for this bondage themed game. The female protagonist seems like a very submissive character to me, and if she was to dominate a scene while bound up it wouldn't make sense.
 

drchainchair2

Member
Mar 28, 2020
413
1,073
308
The solution to the 'defeat' system is very simple.

Make a proper options menu. And make more than one possible route to content pieces.

This is a fetish porn game. And unless you are only making it for yourself, being able to customize risks, rewards, and punishments is going to make it much more appealing by satisfying more people. For those familiar with Skyrim degeneracy, the amount of options and customization with the many loverslab mods is staggering, but that's what makes them good.

As for multiple routes, there are many ideas that can work. Such as a challenge run that starts you locked up in the same situation you could end up in from failing a number of times.

Personally, if the guards don't put the player in progressive bondage gear when being caught, I would find them an annoying and useless existence.
 
Last edited:
Dec 17, 2018
235
113
197
Here is my feedback

The game is great. Even though it's still in EA it has a lot of charm I think. I love sneaking around and I think this proof of concept can turn into a great game.

I wouldn't mind sex on defeat. It makes sense.So there can be two options. Femdom on success or defeat sex on loss. Lots of options!

Realistically though, people should wait for at least a year before the game wows them as this would give more time for devs to work.

Feedback is great but at the end of the day the dev should make what he would want to play and, of course, fap to.
the defeat one must be brutal one XD like rape,Giant Monster with Big Dicks basically hardcore rape in general
 
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4.20 star(s) 53 Votes