Dessolos
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Well Season 2 kind of was a reset so those choices don't matter anymore from what I was told and read many times. Which is why I said I feel the MC needs to give permission again. Afterall it would make no sense for permission to be defaulted for players that didn't play that path.
Can't speak for the others I mean I don't think it's a big deal personally since that scene is clearly a NTR scene. I tend to see NTR Sue as a different character from love path and NTS Sue. Tho I was never blaming Sue I put equal blame on both Theo and Sue. I just was saying it was shitty behavior from both Sue and Theo. Sue being a slut and her having to fight against her libido and having a high sex drive is still no excuse. Which is why I said be one thing if it was talked about first but then that wouldn't be a NTR scene for the ones that prefer NTR. While Theo that is just called being a shitty friend unless you know your friend is okay with it. ( which did happen but was reset in S2) I admit that would be weird to ask your friend too and probably make no sense but for a porn game it would work.
Ricthequick
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There is one BIG issue thou, and it's the stage the story is at, if one wants to be as objective as possible the issue is the pacing and the fact nothing really happened before the possible NTR scene between Theo and Sue (+ Lucia).
Season 2 starts with Randall being at his worse, not working, not fixing his phone, not speaking to anyone... who helps him? Only one person, Theo, who sees the state his best friend is in.
It's also through the conversation between Theo and Randall that we see the return of Sue, and Theo knows how much Randall is "suffering" for how things currently are.
At the same time Sue comes back, she's in pain too, professing she's in the wrong, telling the reason she ran away is because she feared to become again the slut that (in her opinion) caused the death of Randall's father.
She keeps crying and, no matter what path we are in, she keeps professing her love (and ok also lust) for him, also highlights how in the months she's been away she had NO sex.
Dessolos is right, if we really neded an NTR scene for Sue, it could have been for example at the gym with the black dude, or with someone completely new, having it happen with Theo is the worst kind of choice at this stage.
The scene is not bad per se, I agree if one is on an NTR route (which btw was only the Max route in S1) it works, but not with no build up and based on players choices that have nothing to do with it (a bit more upset about the work situation and telling Sue she's hot rather than beautyful).
EDIT: because I always forget to mention 1 crucial thing, there's another issue, we (players) are given NO choice not to shag Scarlett, which is what drives Sue to go for Theo (if the other conditions are met).
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- Oct 17, 2022
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Well, I kind of expected smth like this when they announced new RP mechanics, I even commented on it.
Every system has its pros and cons. With the old mechanics, once you were locked into a path, characters at least behaved somewhat consistently, - but the downside was that you were forced to deal with every girl, even ones you had zero interest in.
The new RP system fixes that problem, which is great, but it brings a different issue - a couple of not-so-obvious dialogue choices can suddenly flip a character’s personality a full 180.
And that’s where Sue’s situation just feels off. A woman who’s supposedly in love with MC suddenly jumping into bed with his best friend cause of 2 mild choices? It doesn’t feel coherent for either Sue or Theo.
I do think Developers will eventually make this RP system deeper and more nuanced / complex, they said as much before Season 2 launched, but as of right now characters, Sue especially, come across as flat and reactive, almost soulless. With writing like that, it’s hard to care about her actions or motivations.
Ss I said before - Sue can sleep with whoever she wants (just not Theo). I’m fully satisfied with Lucia and Scarlett for now. There're a few new girls, they look promising too, so we'll see how it goes.
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Where are people finding this Theo fucks Sue scene? Can't be on pure love path cause i didnt see that at all so must of been on NTR/Sharing routes.
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the R&b/Soul, Chill guitar beats and 80s type beat playlists are great background noise
Ricthequick
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The new system simply doesn't work with the pacing of the story, considering how kinetic for example the latest update is.
The last meaningful choice is in the gym ("You'r hot", "When you look so good" or "Other men are staring"), then everything else happens no matter what.
Telling or not Sue that Scarlett comes to live with you, doesn't change a thing, then some short scenes between Scarlett and Sue (no choice), the dinner scene (no choice), forced sex with Scarlet X2 (no choice).
It's basically 1/2 of the update with no actual choice given to the player, and all it takes to have Sue on a path or another are 3-4 choices that are absolutely not related to sex/kinks, and without contextual hints also quite vague sometimes ("what?" = NTR "Why?" = romance)
The other bit that bugs me is that... NTS is gone pretty much (at least at this stage), it's either Sue cheats on Randall and begs Theo not to say anything (NTR) or she's loyal and nothing happens at all.
As a NTR/netorare fan roleplaying a "good guy" ntr MC (one who doesn't want to get cheated on) I managed to finish the current S2 update with no NTR scenes, so it's certainly easy to avoid if you/MC wants to. Just fucked the ex and Lucia a couple of times (and turned down Theo's gf). In S1 I had to pick the slut NTS/netorase path as it was the path that most resembled ntr. In S2 you can now play MC as being cured of his nts fetish (but not the bimbo one). If anyone got netorared here it was Sue.
Despite the last 3 pages of discussion there doesn't seem to be anything esoteric about NTR logic at play in S2. If you repeatedly antagonize Sue and repeatedly refuse to express an interest in her you increase the likelihood of getting NTRd, same as nearly every other game in the genre (where you avoid NTR by pleasing the girl). That system isn't complicated at all to game to begin with and in fact it's more likely to appeal to nts fans than ntr ones. Real NTR fans generally would rather ntr be either unavoidable or at least be very hard to avoid. The system actually caters to the type of nts fan who has no problem consuming ntr content as long as he feels he's in control of who the LI screws around with.
But it's absolutely ridiculous and likely dishonest for ntr-haters and nts-fans to complain that a LI NTRs you after you repeatedly antagonized and turned her down.
Despite the last 3 pages of discussion there doesn't seem to be anything esoteric about NTR logic at play in S2. If you repeatedly antagonize Sue and repeatedly refuse to express an interest in her you increase the likelihood of getting NTRd, same as nearly every other game in the genre (where you avoid NTR by pleasing the girl). That system isn't complicated at all to game to begin with and in fact it's more likely to appeal to nts fans than ntr ones. Real NTR fans generally would rather ntr be either unavoidable or at least be very hard to avoid. The system actually caters to the type of nts fan who has no problem consuming ntr content as long as he feels he's in control of who the LI screws around with.
But it's absolutely ridiculous and likely dishonest for ntr-haters and nts-fans to complain that a LI NTRs you after you repeatedly antagonized and turned her down.
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fidgetspinner
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Depth of choice is always a problem in these VN simply because they are made by human being. No one can account for anything. Hell I've seen people cry about how Baldur's Gate III doesn't have the choice they would like when most decision usually include anywhere between 3 to 5 choices. That's just not feasible to have a choice for everything and give the play complete control. At last not possible until someone invent some super AI that react to everything you do in real time, giving you the ability to do literally everything. If that happen in my lifetime I'll be happy... before dying of thirst and hunger because i'll probably be unable to put it down.
reidanota
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This is possible within limits. Tried setting up SillyTavern adventures and they work up until they start missing context. LLMs respond strictly to prompt, so you need a good front-end that serves the story, records events and choices, etc. Koboldcpp itself includes some basic front-ends for text adventures, with the same limitations as ST; you have a kit of constraints you can set up but over time, the prompt seems to become too big (koboldcpp will cut it to the limit you set up, losing some information) or too messed up.
There are a couple of mods for Skyrim (Mantella and CHIM - formerly Herika, AIFF) that make NPCs react dynamically to both world context and player input. I think CHIM already incorporates a memory database for any NPC you encounter, as well as the ability to not just respond in text, but also trigger actions in game. Only played the original Herika who was a generic follower, you interacted with her via dialogue only (her character in game still responded strictly to the follower mod's scripts) and it was already a completely different experience. Now CHIM allows AI controlled actions, NPCs talking to NPCs, etc. I have no idea how well all of that works with the base game. A lot of game and mod AI and quests rely on scripted behaviour, if AI injected actions "disctract" NPCs from their AI packages and quest aliases, I'm not sure it can't break some stuff.
Ricthequick
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You are going too far, we all know these are AVNs, not the pinnacle of writing or for that matter of consequential choices, which require good writing on top of resources (e.g. time).
This is an example (but there's plenty across AVNs), one might like Theo, or like Theo having sex with Sue, the author might want to lean harder into NTR (compared to S1's heavy focus on NTS), but the way it's presented is bad, from a story standpoint AND from a gaming standpoint.
The points are not enough, are bound to relatively hazy choices (to the point they had to introduce themselves the option to activate hints) and inserted within a narrative that hasn't progressed nearly enough to justify that specific scene.
Folks saying that in S1 we could pick a path where Sue fucks with Theo are absolutely right, but the authors decided that in the new season that wasn't a relevant enough topic to bring up when setting up the game at the beginning, unlike for example deciding what kind of relationship Theo and Megan have in S2.
To sum it up one last time, not enough choices, the ones that are there are not clear enough (unless one activates the hints), and the hard shift they cause to the characters is too quick within the narrative woven up until that point.
Want a couple of alternative that could have worked better?
Scene between Lucia and Sue, without Theo, or for example if one wants to go for the total slut Sue, a scene in the gym with the figthing coach.
Both would be NTR, both would establish Sue as a cheater on this route, but they wouldn't go against every single scene in S2 between Sue+Randall and Randall+Theo up until that point.
fidgetspinner
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Why is Sue a cheater but Randall fucking every girl left and right and purposely cuckqueening her with Scarlet not? She never confessed he undying love and loyalty to Randall. In fact unlike Randall she's thinking about what her action does to him. Does MC at any point ever think of the consequence of fucking all those women? Of course not! He's Harem-MC, they are just pussies to be filled. What is it with you people giving so much damn room to the MC but the moment a female character step out of line, does something that according to you is not acceptable she's a horrible being? That's the thing with those opinion I hate, you claim Diplomatic immunity on MC fucking everyone because DUH IT'S A PORN GAME. But You cry unrealistic when a woman fuck another guy. Make up your mind.
You guys always cherry pick path and choice based on your own preference and apply that reasoning and logic to a completely distinct path which entire purpose is to have her make different choice. Does the system used and the dialogue and point option need rework and clarity? You bet it does! But Why does that have to affect the path? Why do you focus so much on the weak element that switch the path instead of realising it's the path that matter. You are using the creator's weak points and small failures that they said will rework over time (or not, i'm not part of the dev team) in order to satisfy a logical series of event that end up making the character do what they do.
But it doesn't matter to you, it's just a smokescreen, you're complaining about it because it exist. You refuse to give the dev the benefit of the doubt, to see the intent behind the result and accept that yes in some route Sue has and will get fucked by someone else than Randall because that's the whole point of this VN. to have a Harem Path, a Sharing path and a Hypersexualized path (Let's not call it a slut path, What Sue does in this path is not any different than what Randall does in Harem, It's just demeaning and indicative of a world viewpoint I despise)
Exactly.
And i played through the game a few more times just to see what actually triggers the theo/sue scene and boy its crazy. You have to be on a sue hate train while loving lucia to even trigger it because if your sharing both girls you get the threesome scene. The ONLY way to get the sue/theo scene is if your actively antagonizing sue and at that point its not NTR because your character doesn't give a shit.
I have a save for pure harem route and a save where i turn lucia into the perfect gf while making sue the hoe which is the opposite of what happened in the past and i call that save file "just deserts". 
Dessolos
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if it was any other guy id agree. But I have to disagree , I would 100% see it as NTR even if there is no romantic relationship there and technically that relationship shouldn't be there either cause she is the MC's mother. The only reason is because Theo is the MC's best friend , sure the MC hates Sue on that path and probably doesn't care it happens.
But how I see it a best friend and a mother shouldn't be romantically involved or having sex together cause horny unless they know the son is okay with it. As it can make things awkward and weird , since it is done without the MC's knowledge it gives off a cheating / NTR feel with how the scene plays out. Especially with the way Sue says " don't tell anyone" and " not sure how ( insert MC's name) would feel about it" after they have sex. Now if she has a conversation with the MC especially if you given a choice to give approval or not it changes things.
Now if you use NTR as the literal definition where she has to be stolen I would agree. But if used in a way that is meant for cheating id disagree only because it gives off the same type of feeling or vibe even if the context doesn't really match being cheated on. Only because of the dialogue from Sue and who Theo is.
Ricthequick
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Did I ever mention anything about Randall?
Nope, I didn't.
Have no problem admitting he's a cheater if we make him fuck with anyone but Scarlett pre S1 end, and anyone in general after admitting he's still in love with Sue.
Point is, he's the actual MC and this is a story about him convincing his "mom" to become a bimbo or at the very least to become more open (just to find out she was already before, etc...).
Please don't shame me on something I never even implied and show it as if it's a win, because I repeat again, yep Randall fucking behind Sue's back, without telling her anything is cheating, feel better now?
EDIT: to make it even more crystal clear, one of the other things that rubbed me the wrong way is that we can't avoid Randall having sex with Scarlett, on a romance route I'd have absolutely avoided it.
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