VN Ren'Py My Dorm [v0.27.3 S3 Ch.7] [Tropecita Games]

[Trope95]

Yeah. I'm fucking old.

I don't disparage anyone, but people actually seem to take offense by me liking them hairy. Like my choice takes anything from them.

It isn't ONLY a matter of "liking", it's the attempt at insulting women that don't shave, by implying that they are not clean. This is simply unacceptable to me. But, let's leave that aside.

Cultural mores changing is a inevitability. I could write a few paragraphs on why that always means that men are constantly finding new ways to tell women that they are ugly and that they should change something to please them... and constantly moving the goal posts. But I will not.

You and people of your age, got a pornified version of womanhood. You are not guilty of it. But I saw several stages of this. I saw when the beauty standard for women was to making them look like 16 year old boys. I saw when then a reactionary movement went to the opposed extreme with over plasticized Barbies with gigantic implants became the goal. When the standard was Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole Smith. While the Fashion industry continued to demand them to be thinner and thinner, until the excess started to kill them. I saw the rise of Plus Size and the shocking inability of many men to even accept them as human, much less like women.

I've seen it all. I've also seen that the constant is always the same. Supposedly Hetero Males, saying that women MUST look like this or like that to be attractive. A woman doesn't need to change anything in her to be attractive to me. That is the main difference here. But, keep telling yourself whatever feels better for you.

Just don't insult them by invoking cleanliness. That's just too much.

Peace

I agree with most of your post, But I disagree with one important part:
It's not hetero males who tell women what they must look like. Hetero males are as much victims of that cycle as women, but they pay the price in a different way.
It's companies who tell the hetero males what they should like, because companies need to sell a new product every now and then, and what better than to convince their target that they like their product?
And those hetero men who pledge to that "commercial assault" and start liking the "novelty" start to grow in numbers, adding the "weirdos" who liked it before it to their cause.
Then, those who didn't pledge in the first moment start to feel like "weirdos" because they don't like what their friends like and have two options: Pretending to like it or be the outsiders. Those who start pretending, maybe, end up liking it. You now "feign a smile until the smile is real" applied to tastes. And what they liked isn't produced anymore, so...
Then the ones who liked it from the start, the ones (the outsiders) who liked it before it became popular, and the ones who pretended to like it become the mainstream current. And they think they should impose their views on others (women, the outsiders...). And those collectives should pledge or be signaled.
That works for every fashion change in history if you remove the Hetero males/Women from the equation.

Once it's mainstream and imposed on women. It's not the males who keep imposing it. I heard more women calling another woman dirty because the second woman didn't shave her armpits or legs than men calling unclean a woman who doesn't shave/trim her pubes. It's the mothers who tell their daughters that they should shave to be clean, that being hairy anywhere besides their heads is bad.

Fashion (in this field) is started by companies, adopted by men, and enforced by women.

 

[TigerWolfe]

I agree with most of your post, But I disagree with one important part:
It's not hetero males who tell women what they must look like. Hetero males are as much victims of that cycle as women, but they pay the price in a different way.
It's companies who tell the hetero males what they should like, because companies need to sell a new product every now and then, and what better than to convince their target that they like their product?
And those hetero men who pledge to that "commercial assault" and start liking the "novelty" start to grow in numbers, adding the "weirdos" who liked it before it to their cause.
Then, those who didn't pledge in the first moment start to feel like "weirdos" because they don't like what their friends like and have two options: Pretending to like it or be the outsiders. Those who start pretending, maybe, end up liking it. You now "feign a smile until the smile is real" applied to tastes. And what they liked isn't produced anymore, so...
Then the ones who liked it from the start, the ones (the outsiders) who liked it before it became popular, and the ones who pretended to like it become the mainstream current. And they think they should impose their views on others (women, the outsiders...). And those collectives should pledge or be signaled.
That works for every fashion change in history if you remove the Hetero males/Women from the equation.

Once it's mainstream and imposed on women. It's not the males who keep imposing it. I heard more women calling another woman dirty because the second woman didn't shave her armpits or legs than men calling unclean a woman who doesn't shave/trim her pubes. It's the mothers who tell their daughters that they should shave to be clean, that being hairy anywhere besides their heads is bad.

Fashion (in this field) is started by companies, adopted by men, and enforced by women.

And companies, even in fashion, are almost exclusively run by men, Trope.

 

[blkcrow20]

It's ALWAYS Slockie's fault!

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Trope95]

And companies, even in fashion, are almost exclusively run by men, Trope.

Women would behave equally. They don't count as women or men then. They count as business persons. Or do you think Coco Chanel would remove any of her products because they created anxiety for the women who couldn't own them?
The sisterhood can exist between equals, not between a successful rich woman and the woman next door. Or the successful rich woman risks stopping being successful and/or rich.

 

[blkcrow20]

I see nothing wrong there, but, I see a lot of right!

It is mind boggling that people simply forget that that was the Normal and actually EXPECTED, as late as the beginning of the 90's. At least around here.

I was well in my 30's when the "fully shaved" craze begun. By then I was already on my 2nd wife.

To whom it may concern, I've never been with a shaved woman. My wife shares my beliefs and tastes. What I know about it is from movies or photos. They don't impress me much.

So, it is what it is.

Peace

I've been around longer then you I believe and have lived with seeing that 'natural' bush for many years and don't want to go back to it. Sorry, for me it is a massive turn off and gross. I am fine with shaved but I also really like a nicely trimmed bush. Just don't want a forest.

 

[TigerWolfe]

Women would behave equally. They don't count as women or men then. They count as business persons. Or do you think Coco Chanel would remove any of her products because they created anxiety for the women who couldn't own them?
The sisterhood can exist between equals, not between a successful rich woman and the woman next door. Or the successful rich woman risks stopping being successful and/or rich.

Oh yeah the evils of capitalism are definitely non gendered.

 

[jI11jaCksjAkk]

"What number do you want it set on? Same as my goat? Then a "2" it is! Yeah - it really does tingle, doesn't it."

Really hoping you meant "goatee"? Because I'm 1,000,000% sure I don't want to know that you shave your goat's privates...

I can still spit the hairs or fish from my mouth later.

Jeez. Smelling like fish is bad enough. But if you actually have scaled, wriggly creatures jumping into your mouth when you venture down there those ladies definitely have some hygiene issues.
[Yes, I ever-so-slightly misquoted you...accidentally maliciously. ]

And someone should tell Eva that not every red headwear is Christmas-y, right?

What!? Little Red Sexy Hood sure seems like a Christmas gift to me and all mankind. Plus, with the red headdress she looks even more like Daphne. And that (like a one-year subscription to the Jelly-of-the-Month Club) is a gift that keeps giving all year long, Clark.

Only four legged pussy should have any hair.

1. Any man terrified of hair-down-there is also a pussy.
2. Unless every one of them is bald and hairless, your rule is automatically invalidated.
Q.E.D.

It is mind boggling that people simply forget that that was the Normal and actually EXPECTED, as late as the beginning of the 90's.

So true. Playboy models (before they became exclusively surgically mutilated horror-shows) and other nudie mags and classic porn ladies all had some degree of hair. But I don' even think the media pressure started with female pubic hair - remember Magnum, p.i.? Burly guy with hairy chest. Body hair and facial hair are secondary sexual charaters displaying strong hormones, and the media and fashion world (with disproportionate influence from women and gay men, both groups that resent - with good reason, to be fair - the traditional image of a "strong man") went to great lengths starting in the late 80's to turn something biologically meaningful into something that men 'should be ashamed of.' Feels to me that happened first, and so maybe the hairless pussy thing was a reaction to or extension of that.

My wife was shaved in the hospital for a cesarean section.

What? Was Larry Nasser her ob/gyn?? Why would they shave a vagina for an abdominal surgery??

People don't forget FG, you're just old. I was 3 when the 90s started and I'm almost 40... for almost my entire life the cultural norm where I live has been trimmed as the most hairy 'acceptable' option. Cultural mores and styles change my guy... You like what you like and that's fine, but there's no reason to disparage people who like something different, unless they're being a dick.

As an old person myself, I think that qualilfies.

And yes styles change, but this isn't a debate about whether shouldder-pads are cool, or which hairstyle is popular. Hair is a biological feature with many actual functions - pubic hair especially. Preferring hair or hairless is fine, but anyone pressuring/insisting one's partners remove theirs is very much in the wrong because that it increases their odds of some health risks (albeit marginally). That's how Evolution works - if there wasn't a really good reason for that hair to be there...it wouldn't be there because there is an energy cost associated with growing it that would be just wasted. Evolution don't do wasted energy unless there is a net postive return in some other way (Sexual Selection, Linkage, etc.).

This is not a change of cultural mores at all. They're just trends. And trends are for those who do not have their own opinion and count on someone else to tell them what is good or nice.

 

[Pax Draconis]

Yeah. I'm fucking old.

I don't disparage anyone, but people actually seem to take offense by me liking them hairy. Like my choice takes anything from them.

It isn't ONLY a matter of "liking", it's the attempt at insulting women that don't shave, by implying that they are not clean. This is simply unacceptable to me. But, let's leave that aside.

Cultural mores changing is a inevitability. I could write a few paragraphs on why that always means that men are constantly finding new ways to tell women that they are ugly and that they should change something to please them... and constantly moving the goal posts. But I will not.

You and people of your age, got a pornified version of womanhood. You are not guilty of it. But I saw several stages of this. I saw when the beauty standard for women was to making them look like 16 year old boys. I saw when then a reactionary movement went to the opposed extreme with over plasticized Barbies with gigantic implants became the goal. When the standard was Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole Smith. While the Fashion industry continued to demand them to be thinner and thinner, until the excess started to kill them. I saw the rise of Plus Size and the shocking inability of many men to even accept them as human, much less like women.

I've seen it all. I've also seen that the constant is always the same. Supposedly Hetero Males, saying that women MUST look like this or like that to be attractive. A woman doesn't need to change anything in her to be attractive to me. That is the main difference here. But, keep telling yourself whatever feels better for you.

Just don't insult them by invoking cleanliness. That's just too much.

Peace

I said in my earlier post a "sense of cleanliness", as in aesthetically clean. I'm fully aware that pubic hair can actually help keep the genitalia free from certain bacteria.
Beauty standards shift with the zeitgeist. You talk of Pam Anderson and Anna Nicole Smith, when 35 years earlier the same aesthetic was in vogue with Marilyn Monroe, Jane Mansfield and Sofia Loren. Shaving started earlier than the 90s though. I remember it discussed in the novel 'Noble House' by James Clavell. It was written in 1981 and it was set in 1963. I remember the 90s and the sexualization of actual teen models like Kate Moss when anorexic looking girls were considered the beautiful ones just like you do. That aesthetic also boomerangs in and out of fashion, just look at the flappers of the 1920s.

You're right that the person that they are is the most attractive attribute of a woman, but everyone is allowed aesthetic preferences.

 

[FatGiant]

but everyone is allowed aesthetic preferences.

This is tiring. Pointless and tiring.

The basis for your preferences are irrelevant, when you are stating them and expecting that someone else makes an effort to meet your standards. Aesthetic or otherwise, you are placing an onus on another to satisfy some need to control.

Whether they do it or not for their own satisfaction, becomes secondary, because to you, and others that place the same onus, the important part is truly their compliance.

This, may be an adopted stance on your part, something that you didn't even rationalize, they (the lower forms of life called women) must go through the hoops to meet whatever stupid requirement you come up with. Longer hair, shorter hair, bigger boobs, smaller boobs, larger hips, smaller hips, fake pubic hair, no pubic hair, no armpit hair, trimmed eyebrows, no eyebrows, longer eye lashes, colored face, no color at all, strong lipstick, no lipstick, strong jawline, soft jawline, pierced, unpierced, tattooed, no tattoos, the list goes on and on and on and on...

There's always a way to call them ugly, to make them comply to whatever form of control your "aesthetics" demand of them. Because, acceptance and respect is completely out of question, what matters is to call them ugly, make them doubt themselves and control them.

I've been reading, since the Covid, the male reactions to women that stopped painting their hair. The vitriol and abuse is insane. Almost as insane as what goes on here.

If you can't like a woman in their Natural state, you don't really like women, you like the control you have over them to make them look however you decide they MUST look. Tell yourself the lies you need to make this go down, that doesn't change anything.

Tiring, pointless, vain...

Peace

 

[Pax Draconis]

This is tiring. Pointless and tiring.

The basis for your preferences are irrelevant, when you are stating them and expecting that someone else makes an effort to meet your standards. Aesthetic or otherwise, you are placing an onus on another to satisfy some need to control.

Whether they do it or not for their own satisfaction, becomes secondary, because to you, and others that place the same onus, the important part is truly their compliance.

This, may be an adopted stance on your part, something that you didn't even rationalize, they (the lower forms of life called women) must go through the hoops to meet whatever stupid requirement you come up with. Longer hair, shorter hair, bigger boobs, smaller boobs, larger hips, smaller hips, fake pubic hair, no pubic hair, no armpit hair, trimmed eyebrows, no eyebrows, longer eye lashes, colored face, no color at all, strong lipstick, no lipstick, strong jawline, soft jawline, pierced, unpierced, tattooed, no tattoos, the list goes on and on and on and on...

There's always a way to call them ugly, to make them comply to whatever form of control your "aesthetics" demand of them. Because, acceptance and respect is completely out of question, what matters is to call them ugly, make them doubt themselves and control them.

I've been reading, since the Covid, the male reactions to women that stopped painting their hair. The vitriol and abuse is insane. Almost as insane as what goes on here.

If you can't like a woman in their Natural state, you don't really like women, you like the control you have over them to make them look however you decide they MUST look. Tell yourself the lies you need to make this go down, that doesn't change anything.

Tiring, pointless, vain...

Peace

Wow, assume much? I'm not saying a woman HAS to DO anything. I'm simply stating what I personally find appealing. You're the one projecting a misogynistic argument about enforcing personal preferences on other people. It's marketing companies and the fashion industry that set beauty standards for BOTH men and women.

You're the one who said you were disappointed in a woman if she prefers to shave. YES, some women prefer shaving/waxing, on both THEMSELVES and their PARTNERS.

 

[The.World.According.To.Me]

This is tiring. Pointless and tiring.

Agree.

*Grabs the soapbox*

Even your arguments. Everyone has an opinion, and they are welcome to them, but it's tiresome and annoying when others try to enforce their "truth" on everyone else. My version of "perfect" (small breasted women AA to small B cups) which you called out in a rant and claimed there is no perfect, most people have a preference as to what they find attractive or appealing, which I ignored and let go at the time.

However, I have seen this over and over again from you. This, may be an adopted stance on your part, something that you didn't even rationalize... (as you stated yourself). If you cannot accept that people's taste and preferences vary from yours that is on you, not them.

It's not that hard to accept the reality that opinions vary, in my case I have a very clear and easy statement I live by and that is, "You have your version, and I have the TRUTH!"

Life is much easier if you are not looking for a fight around every corner and if that is not your intention then maybe you need to consider your wording because it definitely comes off that way a lot of the time.

*Steps down and hides the soapbox*

Peace

 

[Rehwyn]

Fun history fact: the trend of removing body hair, including pubic hair, dates back at least as far as ancient Egypt and Rome. Back then, it was fashionable for affluent individuals of both genders to remove their body hair. It was also associated with cleanliness, but that was at least in part because they had significant issues with lice, and hair removal (including on the head) was actually a useful treatment and preventative measure.

Anyways, trends of personal grooming come and go. I'm happy not to shame anyone about them.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Fun history fact: the trend of removing body hair, including pubic hair, dates back at least as far as ancient Egypt and Rome. Back then, it was fashionable for affluent individuals of both genders to remove their body hair. It was also associated with cleanliness, but that was at least significantly in part because they had significant issues with lice, and hair removal (including on the head) was actually a useful treatment and preventative measure.

Anyways, trends of personal grooming come and go. I'm happy not to shame anyone about them.

I agree, no shaming anyone for their choice of hair or lack of hair. (Except for Man Buns - those are open slather. )

 

[Trope95]

Fun history fact: the trend of removing body hair, including pubic hair, dates back at least as far as ancient Egypt and Rome. Back then, it was fashionable for affluent individuals of both genders to remove their body hair. It was also associated with cleanliness, but that was at least significantly in part because they had significant issues with lice, and hair removal (including on the head) was actually a useful treatment and preventative measure.

Anyways, trends of personal grooming come and go. I'm happy not to shame anyone about them.

It also had a lot to do with money and "civilization." The people who could afford daily shaving differentiated themselves from the poor, who could go to the baths less often, and especially, the hairy barbarians beyond the limes.

But yes. Hair or no hair is a trend that came and went as time went by. Same with male beards. They were in fashin in the 70s, then went out of fashion, then returned. I guess they have been going and returning for ages.

The big difference with past times is that fashion now moves (in every field) way faster than in our ancestor's times, and we remember 10 different fashions in our lifetime. I guess a Bavarian (f.e.) peasant or artisan in the 16th century could wear the same clothing at his wedding, at the baptism of his kids, and at his kids' wedding and no one would bat an eye because it was still in fashion. At much, it would be a bit outdated, like the previous style.
If you try to do that (and your kids marry in their 20s), your outfit will have been replaced five times in fashion. If they marry in their 30s, with a bit of luck, the old style has returned and you are the most modern dad ever.

 

[TigerWolfe]

(Except for Man Buns - those are open slather. )

I'll cut you right here right now.

 

[TigerWolfe]

then returned

A weird side effect of 20 years at war in a nation where every man wears a beard.

 

[Trope95]

A weird side effect of 20 years at war in a nation where every man wears a beard.

To me, it was even weirder. I was a bearded man in my late teens and early 20s. It wasn't in fashion. But I was too lazy to shave every day. And I didn't care about my looks. Then it came into fashion and a lot of beards popped up everywhere. People discovered beards were the "male acceptable and manly makeup".

And ladies became "men about pubes". I heard a thousand times the "I won't date someone with a beard/without a beard/bald/long-haired/fat/skinny/below 6'(180cm)/too tall/too poor/(no girl has ever complained about a too rich pursuer)/etc."

But we are imposing our views on them. Yeah.

It's the same when girls complain about having the pressure of having to look like Barbie because that's what they grew up with.
I grew up with Madelman and Geyperman (the Spanish alternative to the G.I. Joe/Action Man action figures). The next generation of kids grew up with He-Man. I never heard any guy saying "Ohhh... I'm traumatized because I don't look like He-Man!"

I think we are falling into the protective complex with women. They are dumb and we can impose our views on them. They are mentally weak and they get traumatized because they don't look like Barbie. They have too much social pressure to look perfect.

You know the MC (and this way I keep the post on topic) is overprotective at the same time as (sometimes) imposing. When he behaves like that, especially in the first chapters, I can't identify with him.
Try to tell Alexia how she should shave her pussy. You get to do it with Samantha because she doesn't have any preferences.
Try to picture Eva saying she's too muscular to look like Barbie.
Or telling Kate she doesn't look good enough.

 

[DaFinker]

It's okay you can have your opinion, even if it's wrong.

Only four legged pussy should have any hair.

So you admit it: you like for your sheep and goats to have a fuzzy cooter.

Wouldn't that be your husband?

She was so devastated, she got T-therapy to grow her hair faster, eventually growing full facial hair as well, then made the decision to have an "addadicktome" operation and now goes by "he".

This is not a change of cultural mores at all. They're just trends. And trends are for those who do not have their own opinion and count on someone else to tell them what is good or nice. If tomorrow some "guru" says that women without left feet are trendy, will there be a plague of amputations?

Have you seen society today? Of course there would be.

Really hoping you meant "goatee"? Because I'm 1,000,000% sure I don't want to know that you shave your goat's privates...

What is it with folks that have that thought? I've heard the term used for that style of beard since before I had one (and I've had mine for more than 20 years). Or is it just the site? Do we have a lot of animal fuckers here? Furry fans? Geez!

 

[Elhemeer]

I'm gonna be honest, even if no one asked for it... LOL

Every. Fucking. Time. I see a woman undress, my internal monologue goes "Oh I hope she has hair!"... How much or how tame is never an issue... not having any, is.

I can't explain it. But a bald pussy, while it can be a lot of fun, is really a strange little disappointment. Like... a missed opportunity for something special. I'm usually capable to recover, but, there in the back of my mind, there's a tiny voice saying "What a pity, it would look better with hair!".

And yes, going down on a hairy pussy, is NEVER a problem... I can still spit the hairs or fish them from my mouth, later.

Considering the 2 parts of this, 1- the amount of work that they have to do & 2- the small inconvenience it is for me, I have to say, Ladies, don't bother... not for my privilege at least, if you want to do it for yourselves... just please don't take it all...

Peace

I don't mind either way, but I have to admit a sculpted art piece down there is my sweet spot.

 

[Elhemeer]

I see nothing wrong there, but, I see a lot of right!

It is mind boggling that people simply forget that that was the Normal and actually EXPECTED, as late as the beginning of the 90's. At least around here.

I was well in my 30's when the "fully shaved" craze begun. By then I was already on my 2nd wife.

To whom it may concern, I've never been with a shaved woman. My wife shares my beliefs and tastes. What I know about it is from movies or photos. They don't impress me much.

So, it is what it is.

Peace

Damnit! Now I'm wondering if Shania Twain is shaved or not ...