Sparta VI

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remember that we are talking about the realities of the USA (not Europe), where an employee is thrown away like a used condom

;)
I wonder if it really is the case that employees have no rights (fire and hire mentality).
 

xert13

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Sep 24, 2023
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honestly the notepad didn't bother me i caulked it down to stress i suppose , plus i didn't but hutch's reason for not having a laptop he's old enough that he can cope with out a laptop , but i swear if Vivian comes across as the victim in all off this it will ruin the game for me as shes not remotely been the victim
Yes, I eventually chalked it down to stress, still it bothered me. Vivian is not a victim. I think she was expertly manipulated by Christian. In her effort to help and save the situation, she fell down a rabbit hole. Yet, you can see her progression due to Hutch’s inability to adequately address the situation. How much of an initial willing participate was she at the house? We would have to see what transpired on the patio to make that determination. By leaving it up to the viewers imagination, for the moment, the Dev is inviting us to guess at Vivian’s acquiescence.
 

xert13

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I wonder if it really is the case that employees have no rights (fire and hire mentality).
Yes, it’s called “employment-at-will” which permits flexibility and a dynamic workforce. Both parties can terminate the employee/employer relationship. It is a concept that sprang into being initially for the benefit of the employee. Prior to employment at will, employees were almost indentured servants. Apprenticeship, typically for a 5-7 year stint depending on the trade, was basically servitude. If you broke your apprenticeship you were done in that trade or profession. Later, low skilled workers in the mining industry lived in “company towns” where their entire livelihood revolved around the company. Often they became indebted to the company for various living expenses - essentially servitude. If you are in a protected class as designated under US law it is more difficult to fire an employee by the way.
 
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TonyMurray

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If it's not written in stone, then the dinner event would make no sense at all.
Now it's Christian basis of his blackmail plan!
Before that it was just his duty to get rid of someone who forgot to do his job.

Vivian not showing up at the dinner she proposed means Huutch is fired!
That means no matter what Huutch is doing, he gets fired!

Even when Vivian wouldn't have visited Christian's office, Christian wouldn't have accepted the invitation coming from Huutch and simply fired him!
Losing 2 clients, Christian has sure better things in mind than to go to a coworkers home, someone he doesn't particularly like.
It's not even a fanzy restaurant...who would accept an invitation like that? (Don't answer!!!)
Sure it would have made sense. It makes sense because Hutch and Vivian are scared that the writing is on the wall and they're trying to stop it from happening. They're not trying to get his job back, they're trying to stop him from losing it.
Vivian: "Well, maybe it's not too late, you know? ... to keep your job... "
Vivian: "... he hasn't technically fired you, so maybe there's still a chance."
Vivian: "A chance for you to change his mind. To prove you are still a valuable asset to him."
The whole thing is a manipulation, it's still his blackmail plan, but he didn't put that plan together until at least the next morning, when he met Vivian. But even in his own words, Christian doesn't say he was going to fire Hutch, they have just made the assumption:
Christian: "~ Chuckling ~ I am NOT making you do anything. Nothing has ever been between you and the door."
Vivian: "Leave and suffer the consequences though, right?"
Christian: "Whatever consequences you think there are... they are all in your head, trust me."
and, keyword in this one is "implied":
Vivian: "He implied people would lose jobs if I didn't... innocent workers... including salesmen... including you."
He's not going to fire Hutch (my interpretation), but letting them think he is plays right into his hands as far as Vivian goes.
---
Side note as I was getting those quotes, I thought maybe Vivian didn't save Hutch's job anyway. Maybe someone else pulled it off...
Addison: "Hutch is a great salesman. No way my uncle is going to fire him."
...
Addison: "Hutch, wait! Is there something I can do?"
...
Addison: "Okay... but I'm here if you need anything..."
Addison: "~ Softly ~... anything at all..."
How far would Addison go to make sure her uncle doesn't fire Hutch? (attachments aren't currently working, so I've quoted this one to at least enable the image to be reached via click):
 

Luc77

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Jul 15, 2022
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1. there were very serious grounds for releasing Hutch - so it was very easy to assume that he would be fired for that (I would think about it myself if I were Chris).
2. they couldn't allow for the actual firing, because it would be too late (Chris doesn't seem like a guy who changes his mind) - and they decided to act to convince Chris of Hutch's value
3. and judging from the reactions of his co-workers - firing an employee is not a problem for Chris :)

losing two important clients to competitors - due to failure to act is a serious matter and actually grounds for dismissal (even in Europe)

what else is there to think about?




end of story
 

Gattsu#Struggler

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Sure it would have made sense. It makes sense because Hutch and Vivian are scared that the writing is on the wall and they're trying to stop it from happening. They're not trying to get his job back, they're trying to stop him from losing it.

The whole thing is a manipulation, it's still his blackmail plan, but he didn't put that plan together until at least the next morning, when he met Vivian. But even in his own words, Christian doesn't say he was going to fire Hutch, they have just made the assumption:

and, keyword in this one is "implied":

He's not going to fire Hutch (my interpretation), but letting them think he is plays right into his hands as far as Vivian goes.
---
Side note as I was getting those quotes, I thought maybe Vivian didn't save Hutch's job anyway. Maybe someone else pulled it off...

How far would Addison go to make sure her uncle doesn't fire Hutch? (attachments aren't currently working, so I've quoted this one to at least enable the image to be reached via click):
Nahh, you are just assuming here. All signs point to Huutch getting fired after he lost those 2 clients because he forgot to reach out to them!
Even Addison waved the loss of one client away but as she heard it were 2 her face fell down!


I was going through some pictures in the office and then there was this question popping up!

Why do the other 3 salesmen have 3 displays and a phone on their desk and Huutch only 2 displays and no phone?
Is this some kind of premium program or does one get punished and loses one of the items if they mess up something?

After six years Huutch has only 2 items left! Now of all times he loses 2 clients...seriously this is no coincidence this has to mean something!

I'm joking here!
 

packard1928

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Nov 16, 2018
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1. there were very serious grounds for releasing Hutch - so it was very easy to assume that he would be fired for that (I would think about it myself if I were Chris).
2. they couldn't allow for the actual firing, because it would be too late (Chris doesn't seem like a guy who changes his mind) - and they decided to act to convince Chris of Hutch's value
3. and judging from the reactions of his co-workers - firing an employee is not a problem for Chris :)

losing two important clients to competitors - due to failure to act is a serious matter and actually grounds for dismissal (even in Europe)

what else is there to think about?




end of story
You are assuming that the loss was Hutch's fault... There may be a different factor at play reviled later.
 
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Oriandu

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Sep 1, 2017
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You are assuming that the loss was Hutch's fault... There may be a different factor at play reviled later.
Doesn't the game pretty heavily indicate that it was Hutch's fault due to his assumption that they were a done deal? That they left because Hutch wasn't proactive in ensuring that their needs were met and their desires were satisfied? Even if that turns out to not be the case they were still Hutch's responsibility and he failed to keep them on contract.
 
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Gattsu#Struggler

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He mentioned that he had talked to them earlier....No problems.... He was surprised that they went to a different company.
He lied to Christian when saying "I did..." then he facepalmed himself and corrected his statement "...I thought I had".
3 renders in autoplay mode!
 
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TonyMurray

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Nahh, you are just assuming here. All signs point to Huutch getting fired after he lost those 2 clients because he forgot to reach out to them!
I'm not assuming, I'm just putting out a different interpretation - the assumption is when people look at what happened and say "that's it, he's getting fired" (just like Maxwell did in the office when it happened!). Or when you say he forgot to reach out to the clients, even when he has spoken to at least one of them in the last couple of days before this happened.

I'm not even saying that it's an incorrect assumption that he would be fired, I'm just saying that I have a different take on it. Maybe my take is based too much on a non-US organisation, but either way, it just shows there are other avenues.
 

TonyMurray

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He talked to one of them a couple of days ago but not after he was warned about the other company stealing clients.
He was warned to shore up and Hutch said he knew and did and then admitted that he forgot!
No assumptions here. Just following the dialogs in order!
We know that he talked to (at least) one of the clients "a couple of days ago" but we don't know when he was told to shore up the clients. Nowhere are we told, or even really given the impression, that the instruction came the day before, for instance, therefore there is no indication that he didn't speak to them after he was warned about GSA poaching clients. That's just your assumption.

And Hutch didn't admit that he forgot either, that's another assumption you've made. He clearly said he talked to Berger a couple of days ago, then after Christian says he had warned Hutch (and presumably the rest of the team) to shore up their clients, Hutch said "I know sir. I did..." and then "I thought I had." Facepalm or no facepalm, this isn't Hutch saying that he forgot to call them. Sure, that's one interpretation, but another is that he says "I know sir. I did (call them)" and then "I thought I had (shored them up)" responding to the two parts of it - as in, he spoke to them and thought everything was okay, the facepalm showing his exasperation at being wrong about this last bit, or annoyance at them having either played him or simply changed their mind after speaking to him. Then a day or two later, they call in and say they're moving to GSA.

As this isn't a voiced game (thankfully), we don't have the necessary tone to help clarify the words used, but I guess it's a difference between "I thought I had" (I thought I had remembered to call) and "I thought I had" (I thought I had achieved it when I did call).
 
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packard1928

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I still think there is something other than Hutch involved here... I client just doesn't up and leave with no notice.... they generally call if there is a problem along the way... if that can't be corrected then they may leave... also if monies are better somewhere.... same .. call first.. Ithink there was something more serious that just made them change so quick. But...that is Just me...
 

Chaoticjustice

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May 26, 2024
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Your interpretation here makes no sense but be it that way.
Mentioning a couple of days ago on a wednesday means more than a week ago!
After Huutch facepalmed himself and realized that he forgot and corrected himself by saying he thought he had you get an overview of the office and see Christian facepalming himself.
There is no room for misinterpretation here. It's the way DEV wants us to see these kind of situations!
DEV uses less words but instead has the focus on renders and let them speak for themselves.
Some see it others don't. Don't take it to heart.
I mentioned this earlier but I don't think it got noticed could be worth a thought

I agree with tony here I don't think it was set in stone that he was going to get fired but let's not rule it out

But if we take into account that even after Vivian bangs him to save hutch's job , he still restructures his job role and moves him into a more back office role rather than customer facing , for all we know that could of been the plan the entire time , obviously without it ever being confirmed we will never know just thought it would be an interesting point to make
 

TonyMurray

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Your interpretation here makes no sense but be it that way.
Mentioning a couple of days ago on a wednesday means more than a week ago!
After Huutch facepalmed himself and realized that he forgot and corrected himself by saying he thought he had you get an overview of the office and see Christian facepalming himself.
There is no room for misinterpretation here. It's the way DEV wants us to see these kind of situations!
DEV uses less words but instead has the focus on renders and let them speak for themselves.
Some see it others don't. Don't take it to heart.
That's not how weeks work :LOL:

On a Wednesday, "a couple of days ago" might mean Monday, or maybe Friday (given it appears to be a Mon-Fri working week). Neither of those are more than a week ago.

Look, it's fine for you and I to have different views, but the very fact that we do have different views means you're flat out wrong to say there's no room for misinterpretation here.
 

Hattyrulz

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Jan 25, 2018
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1. there were very serious grounds for releasing Hutch - so it was very easy to assume that he would be fired for that (I would think about it myself if I were Chris).
2. they couldn't allow for the actual firing, because it would be too late (Chris doesn't seem like a guy who changes his mind) - and they decided to act to convince Chris of Hutch's value
3. and judging from the reactions of his co-workers - firing an employee is not a problem for Chris :)

losing two important clients to competitors - due to failure to act is a serious matter and actually grounds for dismissal (even in Europe)

what else is there to think about?




end of story
lets not forget how upper management always tries to blame middle management for their mistake and middle management blaming the workforce. and the workforce blame the upper management .... the ouroboros loop continues.
 
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mad_hungarian

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I’m convinced that there’s a deeper layer to Vivian than what is immediately visible. Her 90s tramp stamp serves as a striking indicator of a more adventurous past, hinting at a lifestyle that may have been wild and possibly promiscuous before she settled into her current role as a suburban housewife and teacher. Additionally, she appeared to take special pleasure in the BBC mechanic, further suggesting that beneath her calm exterior lies a spirit eager for excitement.
 

TonyMurray

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Well agree to disagree. You just can't read mimics and gestic, it's ok!
Saying a couple of days ago on a wednesday means somewhen last week!
Huutch could have said yesterday for Tuesday or on Monday, but all he brought up was "a couple of days ago"!
He didn't even try to reach out to the clients on monday...jesus, what a hero!
You should probably stop telling people not to make assumptions when your arguments are largely made up of assumptions themselves! Nowhere does it say that he didn't reach out to clients on Monday, nowhere does it say he spoke to them last week. You're just trying to twist things to fit your own narrative, which may be right but just as equally may be wrong. Sure he could have said "I spoke to them on Monday" if it was Monday, but if it was Friday, he could have said "I spoke to them last week," or "I spoke to them on Friday". And again, you don't know when it was that he was told to shore up his clients. That instruction could have been given two weeks ago, for all we know.

So not only are you arguing something that probably won't get confirmed in the game, but you're using assumptions to do so and saying that other people are the ones who can't read clues. Just accept that how you see things isn't always how other people see things, but that doesn't mean that other people are wrong (nor does it mean you are wrong). It just means that things aren't always black and white. Interpretations are a bit like opinions, everyone can have one, and they're not always the same.
 

xert13

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Sep 24, 2023
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lets not forget how upper management always tries to blame middle management for their mistake and middle management blaming the workforce. and the workforce blame the upper management .... the ouroboros loop continues.
+10 points for use of “ouroboros.” Wait, is that an STD? ;-)
 
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