That has not been confirmed. Exactly like what happened in that bedroom as they were getting ready to fuck the night away (or during). SC is not telling us.
It could have been like that, but SC isn't telling us. I think it would be early in their relationship for her to simply drop her panties. When Wife and Boss are in the bedroom, Husband hears a lot more talk through the door than her simply dropping her panties.
To be fair that first point is speculation not fact. After she tells Hutch she's a big girl, the next time we see her, she's bent over a table. There's no actual proof he coerced her to spread her legs over the table, everyone kind of assumed that based on how Christian and Vivian were initially presented. However given new facts about Vivian and her personality I'm not convinced he forced her over the table. Christian even told Hutch the dinner was supposed to be just them. Vivian inserted herself back into the dinner. If you substitute yourself in for Vivian, and you had no desire to sleep with Christian in the first place wouldn't the normal response be relief that you don't have to attend the dinner with the boss who allegedly made you uncomfortable with his forward nature? Sure you'd be nervous about your husband losing his job, but by your own admission all three can figure out what Christian wanted, that doesn't mean Christian actually asked her for sex. She could have just jumped to the conclusion that sex was the only way to solve the issue (we later find out he never intended to fire Hutch), and thought to herself let's just get this over with.
You completely miss my point. You seem to believe there is nothing in between initiating sex and being forced. My whole point was that she is between both - an understanding between adults, a giving in to pressure.
Nonsense is contagious.
Like I said we process information differently. Initially after chapter one, I did believe she was pressured and coerced to some extent and viewed her as sympathetic, but after Christian tells her Hutch's job isn't in danger she had zero reason to engage in sex with anyone but Hutch, the restaurant revelation, and the part where she proclaimed she felt empowered changes my perspective on the story. Everything is done by Vivian is her using her freewill. At least that's how I see it.
I was literally quoting what is said in the game and then saying "that sounds like", so I don't know why you're saying it doesn't sound definitive - I didn't say my assumption on it was definitive. However, a couple of points: 1. Christian says that's how it went down and Vivian doesn't deny it - but he doesn't at any point say that she initiated the sex, there's just a lot of implication and omission in the conversation, so it remains largely a mystery to us. The most we know about it is what was said in that restaurant scene I quoted. 2. You seem very hung up on the "noble sacrifice" bit, using it once again here when it has no relevance to the points being discussed. 3. Why you've moved it on to how Vivian and Christian can become a couple, I have no idea. That's also nothing to do with what's being discussed, but you've tagged it on as if it's in response to what was being said...
Hutch wasn't there for the second time at Christian's, after the contract signing. He didn't see Christian take Vivian upstairs for sex. There was never any indication that Hutch saw Vivian throwing the contract at Christian, or any of the sex that followed it, it was a projection of Vivian's - she knows now that Hutch saw their first time, and she's imagining him there watching, which is (IMO) one of the reasons she says "not here" and they go inside.
Again, this is in response to Christian saying Vivian did most of the talking, and Vivian not denying it. It doesn't explain the specific steps of how they ended up fucking. However, regardless of how long into "their relationship" it was, she did indeed drop her panties. The second time, in the bedroom, she actually didn't drop her panties, because they were still outside, having been kicked under the table
I think it would have been obvious to Boss that Wife was wilting before him (as she tells Sunshine) and was his for the taking in the backyard. That does not tell us who initiated or any other details. I also think it must have been frustrating for him to have Wife then turn around and start acting like she does not like having sex with him. Even up to the final scene and the "But remember..." Wife does not really show that she thinks their relationship has any legitimacy in spite of the "I belong to you" and her obvious enjoyment of his dick.
Of course she makes her choices out of free will - I even said so in my first answer: it's her decision to say no or yes. But that's not the same as initiating sex. Even among normal lovers it's usually one party who initiates and the other one follows. What is your point? That doesn't mean she wasn't under pressure and that doesn't mean she desired to have sex. Your world is binary - fault/non fault, free will/forced. I guess you think that if one acknowledges she didn't want the sex one takes away responsibiltiy. If you would make the effort to go back in this thread you would see that I was one of those who always stressed her accountability.
the boss said it clearly when she asked if she never came too see him in the morning and he said none of this would be happening. that is the truth. she forced it too happen. she went there with an agenda an she seen it through regardless of hutch's feelings or concerns
I see that as very relevant to their understanding of each other, and often overlooked by players. It bears repeating. In my opinion. It is also related to how Boss kicks her out of the car and insists that she say she likes sex with him. This reluctance on her part is part of his feeling about the whole situation. In the end his patience with her might be better than mine would have been.
I see it as one natural consequence of the story. Who actually initiated what is not very important.
It sounds to me like you missed seeing him watch through the window as he carried her. SC does not bother to explain to us how he managed to get there at that moment, but there he is. SC does not give us any indication that this might be an imagining on her part.
Or Boss removed them after some talking, I would expect after a little foreplay, kissing etc. SC does not show us. Immediately dropped her panties is the suggestion that I don't buy.
And why did she do that class??
the depth of the story.. lets see husband in trouble at work and wife bangs there way out of it and makes her own money too .. and gets vitamin D anywhere she wants .. am i missing something?
______________________________________+++++++++++++++++________________________________________
Hutch wasn't there. You're suggesting that in the couple of minutes between Vivian failing to get into Christian's house and going round the back to find him there, Hutch arrives, gets into the house, immediately goes to the back into the kitchen, not to where he knows the bedroom is, etc. Meanwhile, Vivian and Christian go inside to continue having sex and Hutch is suddenly nowhere to be seen?
My point is I disagree with that premise. How I fill in the missing content leading to the backyard is Christian and Vivian had a conversation about Hutch and his job, at some point he guides her outside they continue to talk, Vivian doesn't like the way the conversation is playing out, and she could've said something like "okay I know what you really want". She lifts her dress up without Christian asking, lowers her panties put her hands on the table, and says you have ten minutes. She probably thought she could get Christian off (which is why she makes note later that she knows how to get him off now) before Hutch would finish writing on his notepad. However once she let him enter her she was overwhelmed by the feeling, and how much she was enjoying it, which led to where we are now and why I'm now leaning towards Vivian being the one who initiated sex the first time. I can see it the other way to, but given the current story, I find it harder to believe he forced her to bend over, and took her by force.
I agree with that sentence of course. But the agenda wasn't "to get the boss" but to rescue her own financial ass. Otherwise you would contradict your own depiction of her as a hoe, would you not?
