VN Ren'Py My New Girlfriend [Ch. 4] [CircleGames]

[hayrullahdelisi]

We are probably mostly on the same page here, you just need to separate "easier for people who can't draw or make great 3d" and "easier in general, in terms of speed". Ai gave some people ability to create said products, without spending years improving their art to acceptable point. But it never was about fast foot delivery speed.
Daz on the other hand was always (at least on this site) about cheap, most basics renders, that you can do in like literally 30 min. from 0 (there was a guy already who challenged me to that and went awfully quiet after that, hello "itsnotus" i know you are reading). Program itself is capable of creating amazing art, but people never go for that, 99% of what you can see on this site from Daz, hardly takes more than 5min. / pic and usually done via other people art (assets), just like AI, the irony. This is why delivery speed differs between projects. I mean, you shouldnt go to a restaurant / cafe, and expect them to handle you cheeseburger and fries after 30 seconds like in MacDonalds "because there is Daz projects that works just like that" and "I don't need these fancy details, i just want to eat". They don't have "just food" on the menu.

Then this should have been made clear in the beginning. You can check any AI games first pages (Especially old ones). You will see devs praising AI and just like you said talking about how unique it looks compared to DAZ and how it made game development possible for devs who can't or don't want to draw with even faster process.

Now when things start to get slow, instead of these promises all i see is speeches about how complicated AI is etc. Like what happened to all that confident talk? Besides biggest criticism towards DAZ was how same it looked (Which is true) and within 6 months of time we have like 10 AI games in forum and they all look the same.

The way i see it is (Going from your analogy) what was promised to us was a unique restaurant with good quality of food with the speed of McDonalds. Now all remains is good quality since uniqueness and speed is gone.

 

[Sb21]

I was here to see when I can fap again to this game. Instead, I see a full debate of rendering visual for games. Peak divertissement.

 

[AbyssGames]

SoA has just started, and I'm sure you'll notice a tempo decrease at some point. Comparing it to one of the best games out there isn't really fair. If you want a more reasonable comparison, take Blurring the Walls, for example.

This chapter may be taking longer than we'd like, but objectively, it doesn’t yet warrant this level of criticism.

Tempo decrease? Excuse me young sir, I shall not have any tempo decreases!

 

[rob_trowy_97]

Tempo decrease? Excuse me young sir, I shall not have any tempo decreases!

In that case you will be the first one. Good luck!

 

[AbyssGames]

Also, I do want to provide everyone with some perspective from a developer. Regardless what tools are used to create images, in the end, that doesn't matter as much. For AI generated images, it does matter as multi-character scenes require simply too much computational matrices and the models just aren't big enough to handle those. The more recent models that have come out are bigger which in turns means they are able to handle more input and process more details.

That bit aside, the thing that "slows" down development and this is true for every creator out there and what seperates the greats from the slop is the way the story is presented. Either visually through different elements or narratively. While I've been doing this for a short amount of time compared to others, it's something that's on my mind. It's something subconcious we have to deal with. As the game progresses and you get further along in the story and you develop more and more people interested in the game, you have to keep people interested. People don't want to see the same thing over and over again, everything has to step up with every chapter that you release. Every update you need to leave people longing for more, you need to keep challenging yourself and the audience, which can take a lot of thought and planning. How you present a scene and how you keep the flow of the story going is important, the expressions they make, the interractions between the characters, the music, the sound effects. All those things get exponentially more difficult the further you get into the story, which is why you see a lot of developers quit halfway through their projects as it becomes a burden to bear. You can say as a developer, you're not going to worry about things like that, but as I mentioned before, they will always be on your mind, whether you want it to or not.

Anyone can start creating a game, but very few can deliver a finished product at the end due to the things I just mentioned.

I've been on this site for 5 years, absorbing information on what to do and what not to do and yet I made more mistakes than I would've liked.

Either way, my message is getting quite long. I'm by no means defending CG as I don't think he needs to be defended in this case. Chapter 5 will speak volumes and will hopefully prove my points.

 

[eskadet]

While i am highly aware of developmental process (I don't know why you are acting like we are all idiots when any criticism is voiced) i don't need to possess any knowledge to voice my opinion. 100 renders, no matter how complicated the process is, have always been criticized in this forum. Planning, writing etc doesn't mean anything since all games have these progresses.

I don't understand why people are acting like AI is a hassle all of a sudden. You were talking about how miracleous ai is and how efficient it is. Devs (CG inclued) were saying AI would help them to release games even faster. What happened to all of that? Since when DAZ renders are considered easier than AI?

I never called anyone an idiot nor did I intend to make anyone feel idiotic and I apologize if it came across that way. The more knowledgable a person is about a subject, the more accurate their opinion will be (to reality) so everyone, including myself, should want to possess more knowledge before voicing their opinion. Popular opinion does not equate to objective truth. Just because something is regularly criticized on this forum, does not make the criticism justifiable. Yes, it is true that all games have the same processes/challenges but they are still meaningful to discuss because not all developers have the same resources. Hence, why it is not fair to compare indie games with limited resources to AAA games made by huge studios with unlimited resources.

I never said AI is miraculous, and I never said DAZ renders were easier than AI. You are mixing me up with someone else, or putting words in my mouth. Traditional rendering and AI rendering come with their own unique set of challenges and both can be easier or harder than the other depending on the end goal and level of commitment to achieving a certain level of quality.

Look, ultimately, my point is that just because CircleGames' render count is lower than you would like, does not mean that they are lazy or milking people. When it comes to indie devs, development time is relative to the life commitments of the people working on it and the quality they hope to achieve. CircleGames has upheld a high level of quality thus far, so I think it is fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the delay has been for good reason.

Good chat. I apologize mods. I will now slither back to my cave and go back to my habit of only posting replies like 1-2 times a month

 

[hayrullahdelisi]

I don't want to cause an argument either and i thank to those who kept the conversation in civil lines. I just want to make it clear (While the way i think can be wrong) as a customer i just care about the final product not the process. CG made it clear that unlike other rendering tools (Like drawing or DAZ) AI would make the creation process much faster. He promised to deliver a new update before Christmas, then first few weeks of January, then 31th of January and now it got delayed again. I just don't like these contradicting statements. If he never praised AI for its speed or gave potential dates i wouldn't say these but i don't like the image this situation draws since we have witnessed where it leads many times before.

This is all from me so i am shutting my mouth, sorry if i hurt someone unintentionaly.

 

[PatreonTed]

It got delayed again? lol. 4 months for 500 renders max. Dr Pinkcake just announced his changelog, 7000 renders in 12 months. Shadows of Ambition's dev managed to release two updates in shorter time than this game. I guess holidays or multi girls are just excuses for some.

Perhaps you could create a game yourself and show us all how it should be done properly?

 

[adam153045]

Is it definitely delayed?

 

[Maayu]

CG made it clear that unlike other rendering tools (Like drawing or DAZ) AI would make the creation process much faster. He promised to deliver a new update before Christmas, then first few weeks of January, then 31th of January and now it got delayed again.

Why are you lying?

yeah it is AI art but this project took a looooot of work to get a first release, months. Programming and writing is not my background, maybe that is not enough for some people, but does not change the fact that it took serious hours to get to this point.

I specially went and read all the comments CG made. You are not only wrong, but your claim is opposite of what actually took place

No ideia yet

When asked about ch.2 release date.

New update is releasing this weekend or at the start of the week for Gold members on Patreon

First time the release date for ch.2 was mentioned on 29 june, released on july 1

I am working on a comic with a Patreon member right now After that I think Ch5 would be a great way to end the year, besides, a new chapter doesn't always needs to be bigger then the one before

This, some idiots might claim to be a promise, but it's clearly wet dream of CG.

Not yet, like chapter 4 I will anounce the date once I know it's certain, meaning it will be anounced pretty close to the actual release itself...As a costumer I always felt sad when my fav projects didn't get an update on christmas time and I would love to have the chapter 5 ready by christmas or new years eve but at the same time I am not willing to cut the content of the chapter for that to be possible, this one will have a lot of scenes with mutiple girls and that takes a lot of time in Photoshop to bring to life at the quality level I desire...But it's early december so there's no point in talking about release date for anyone wondering, I will adress that closer to christmas.

Not quite, but chapter 4 was indeed the biggest chapter by far with 249 images, chapter 3 had 130...Right now I think Chapter 5 will be in between since I am not far from the 100 images counter...but there´s no way to know until I am done, I told myself that Chapter 5 didn't have to be bigger then 4 but let's see, I don't think it will be, the problem like I said is having a lot of mutiple girls scenes...plus the animator told me he is away for family visits, let's see if I need to release the chapter without all the animations, I will probably do a poll for that

When I read what CG wrote I don't see any promises. And I would say everything is clearly communicated.. and it's on the forum where 90% of us are not paying a dime.

 

[idkmanerally]

the simple truth is: most games on f95 are never completed, and most of the abandoned games are NOT officially and honorably retired, with an announcement and shutting down of the patreon... instead, the abandoned game enters a milking state, where the developer keeps accepting money while no longer working on the game, or working on the game much, much less.

that is very important context for understanding why some people are obsessed with release dates and development speed. because if you've hung around this community for a while and spent money supporting developers, you realize you need to keep an eye on development so you can pull your support once things start to falter, or else you'll end up giving money every month to a dev who is actively and intentionally scamming you.

i don't think that's happening with My New Girlfriend. i believe the dev (for now) when he says he underestimated how much work it would be to fulfill his vision for the chapter, and instead of pivoting to a simpler chapter, he took longer to develop it. is it worth it? we'll know when chapter 5 comes out. until then, we can only speculate. and argue about how long its taking.

but you can't blame the supporters for arguing and speculating, really. this conversation happens in almost every thread for games with patreons. if devs don't want to defend their development practices, they shouldn't accept money for that development. if you turn your fans into paying customers, that comes with the burden of expectations.