Ren'Py My New Neighbors [v1.83] [Rmaximus]

[Vitklim]

After playing through anew, I once again have the same criticism of the beginning part of the story (and the premise at that). The main character going along with the demonic domination of the world makes me dislike him. A lot.
Either make it so he is evil beforehand, or do not make the end goal to be literally take over the world and turn everyone into demons (I prefer the second solution). Not sure if people forget, but genocide is frowned upon. You can't make the main character, or any sympathetic character for that matter go from normal to an immoral scumbag in a matter of a single conversation, that's not how writing works. Either change the character, or the premise.

 

[ghjghjghj]

After playing through anew, I once again have the same criticism of the beginning part of the story (and the premise at that). The main character going along with the demonic domination of the world makes me dislike him. A lot.
Either make it so he is evil beforehand, or do not make the end goal to be literally take over the world and turn everyone into demons (I prefer the second solution). Not sure if people forget, but genocide is frowned upon. You can't make the main character, or any sympathetic character for that matter go from normal to an immoral scumbag in a matter of a single conversation, that's not how writing works. Either change the character, or the premise.

What genocide? He's already converting people left and right. None of them seem particularly dead...

I think you're bringing way too much baggage into this one. I'm also unsure why you're apparently okay with everything he's actually done already but have a problem with his end goal which is really just to repeat what he's already done many, many times.

 

[Vitklim]

What genocide? He's already converting people left and right. None of them seem particularly dead...

I think you're bringing way too much baggage into this one. I'm also unsure why you're apparently okay with everything he's actually done already but have a problem with his end goal which is really just to repeat what he's already done many, many times.

Wiping out the entirety of humanity through converting them to demons counts as genocide. Of the species, if nothing else. Also, please specify what "everything else" is in this scope, if you are referring to converting people with the story of the game as of right now, it's morally dubious, but it's not the same as "ay, may take over the world and convert literally everyone at that".
Seriously, it's not even a hard fix. Either a) protagonist is an evil bastard from the get-go and is okay with world domination and essentially genocide, or b) the end goal is literally anything except world domination and eradication of a species.

Like, make the end goal be the takeover of say, the town, or have it be limited to people MC knows. Write yourself out of the immoral corner.

As for why this matters at all, I'm a fan of storywriting that doesn't make me want to ignore everything but the porn part of the game.

 

[ghjghjghj]

Wiping out the entirety of humanity through converting them to demons counts as genocide. Of the species, if nothing else. Also, please specify what "everything else" is in this scope, if you are referring to converting people with the story of the game as of right now, it's morally dubious, but it's not the same as "ay, may take over the world and convert literally everyone at that".
Seriously, it's not even a hard fix. Either a) protagonist is an evil bastard from the get-go and is okay with world domination and essentially genocide, or b) the end goal is literally anything except world domination and eradication of a species.

Like, make the end goal be the takeover of say, the town, or have it be limited to people MC knows. Write yourself out of the immoral corner.

As for why this matters at all, I'm a fan of storywriting that doesn't make me want to ignore everything but the porn part of the game.

I'd say that only counts as genocide if you count him as a murderer right now. If he hasn't murdered all his friends and family, then he's not going to murder the rest of humanity, and thus is not genocidal. Kinda hard to do the whole genocide thing without any murder.

The only way I see a difference is if you assign a bunch of value to the idea of humans as literal humans only, and that the actual individuals as sentient beings don't count once they are not technically humans anymore. I mean sure I guess if you really care about that, it's a difference? That point seems super arguable though. I don't think you have to be the evil of all evils to disagree with it.

Personally I lean the other way I don't particularly care if he converts all the humans. My main moral concern with this whole thing would just be the fact he's doing it surreptitiously, without consent. But at this point he's already done it to all of his friends and family, so I think the time to be overly concerned about that one has passed for me.

 

[Vitklim]

I'd say that only counts as genocide if you count him as a murderer right now. If he hasn't murdered all his friends and family, then he's not going to murder the rest of humanity, and thus is not genocidal. Kinda hard to do the whole genocide thing without any murder.

The only way I see a difference is if you assign a bunch of value to the idea of humans as literal humans only, and that the actual individuals as sentient beings don't count once they are not technically humans anymore. I mean sure I guess if you really care about that, it's a difference? That point seems super arguable though. I don't think you have to be the evil of all evils to disagree with it.

Personally I lean the other way I don't particularly care if he converts all the humans. My main moral concern with this whole thing would just be the fact he's doing it surreptitiously, without consent. But at this point he's already done it to all of his friends and family, so I think the time to be overly concerned about that one has passed for me.

It's the eradication of a species by things other than physical destruction. Falls under the definition. It's not only murder. And the moral quandary isn't the physical harm either.
Again, if you are going to bring in the metaphysical "soul" and the like, then give an adequate explanation of why I shouldn't have the preconceived notion of "demons - EVIL". Either make your own mythology or explain very clearly the difference in rules you've written from the general understanding.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

According to the 1998 Rome Statute, genocide consists of committing acts aimed at totally or partially destroying a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.

With that definition, I believe that in this game no one is committing genocide.

 

[Vitklim]

That's only because we don't have known alien species, once that happens, species will need to be added to the list. And doesn't the racial part cover that anyway? Because converting all humans into demons precisely falls into that definition.
Also, the destruction doesn't have to be physical, if I remember the formulation correctly.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

Well, at the rate of conversion of the current game, I think that in a few millennia we could ask ourselves if there is genocide or not.

For the rest, I don't see that they have destroyed anyone, except the father / boss / king demon, that one died (and the rest of the demons, it's seen that someone did genocide with them, and this literal one)

 

[Vitklim]

Kind of my point earlier, about this being easily fixed by giving a limiting principle. Because there's always the option of the story advancing to that point off-screen once the game's done. Except instead of a happy ending with no moral dubiousness, you have it built upon this mountain of questionable writing choices.

 

[drfronkonstinmd]

Dude, there’re mainstream games out there in which you literally murder enemies with a machine gun and you’re worried about a sex fantasy game where the mc is actually saving everyone he cares about by turning them into the new dominant species, giving them special powers, sexy bodies and dialing their sexual drive up to eleven.

Also, you’ve played it twice, so what you’re describing as “genocide” doesn’t seem to bother you that much.

 

[Vitklim]

Dude, there’re mainstream games out there in which you literally murder enemies with a machine gun and you’re worried about a sex fantasy game where the mc is actually saving everyone he cares about by turning them into the new dominant species, giving them special powers, sexy bodies and dialing their sexual drive up to eleven.

Also, you’ve played it twice, so what you’re describing as “genocide” doesn’t seem to bother you that much.

What a genuinely braindead take. Where to even begin.

One - caring about consistent storywriting is not the same as a hollow moral panic conducted by people who fucking despise the medium they are critiquing. If your story handles morality with absolutely no thought put into the actions of characters you are supposed to care about, your story sucks. I have already outlined my issues in detail above. From neutral perspective, the actions of the MC given the information he has are reprehensible and from the outsider's perspective he would qualify as a villain. I didn't write him into that situation, the writer did. I even suggested ways to improve it.

Two - I am in no way worried about the game having any impact on the real world, I am critiquing it as a piece of media. The fact that you would even imply this is a bigger insult to your intelligence than anything I can say here.

Three - judging by your attitude, the "I for one welcome our new X overlords" quote applies perfectly. Again, in what other contexts has this approach been portrayed in the past? Y'know, big schemes revolving around taking over the world, and considering some species/beings as lesser? Of course, how could I forget, the people you are supposed to root for always have goals like this.

Four - me playing the game does not stop me from offering criticism. It just makes me want to ignore the story entirely, which as we all know is a sign of utter success. Immersion is for suckers anyway.

 

[Rule97]

How much content is there currently? I see there are lots of girls but do at least some have very long paths? Also cna saves made in the compressed version be used for the full non compressed game?

 

[YogSothoth1982]

What a genuinely braindead take. Where to even begin.

One - caring about consistent storywriting is not the same as a hollow moral panic conducted by people who fucking despise the medium they are critiquing. If your story handles morality with absolutely no thought put into the actions of characters you are supposed to care about, your story sucks. I have already outlined my issues in detail above. From neutral perspective, the actions of the MC given the information he has are reprehensible and from the outsider's perspective he would qualify as a villain. I didn't write him into that situation, the writer did. I even suggested ways to improve it.

Two - I am in no way worried about the game having any impact on the real world, I am critiquing it as a piece of media. The fact that you would even imply this is a bigger insult to your intelligence than anything I can say here.

Three - judging by your attitude, the "I for one welcome our new X overlords" quote applies perfectly. Again, in what other contexts has this approach been portrayed in the past? Y'know, big schemes revolving around taking over the world, and considering some species/beings as lesser? Of course, how could I forget, the people you are supposed to root for always have goals like this.

Four - me playing the game does not stop me from offering criticism. It just makes me want to ignore the story entirely, which as we all know is a sign of utter success. Immersion is for suckers anyway.

I doubt the Dev thinks the plot is the beginning of a genocide. I hadn't even considered this as a problem before you named it.

In any case, I don't think this is going to change. Nor do I find it too relevant. But if the dev changes it for any of your suggestions, I would not see it bad either. I mean, it's what starts the game and theoretically the ultimate goal, but surely the story itself doesn't change much, at least at this point.

 

[Jin56]

So... judging by the new picture at the top of the first post... I'm guessing we're still just pushing new characters all the time and not doing much with the old ones?

Not really after they introduced the MC's extended family and friends of the sisters Rmax has focused adding content to each of those girls with more to come after. Everyonce in a while he also add small scenes for the other girls or get them involved in corrupting characters related to them

 

[Deleted member 377614]

Love the game!

Don't know if they are Honey Select models or not, but if so would anyone happen to have the character cards?

 

[Vitklim]

I doubt the Dev thinks the plot is the beginning of a genocide. I hadn't even considered this as a problem before you named it.

In any case, I don't think this is going to change. Nor do I find it too relevant. But if the dev changes it for any of your suggestions, I would not see it bad either. I mean, it's what starts the game and theoretically the ultimate goal, but surely the story itself doesn't change much, at least at this point.

That's the thing really, I doubt the dev thought too hard about the situation when he was establishing the premise for the game. And when you do start thinking about it, your immersion suffers severely.
Hell, Corruption did this better by limiting itself to mind control and the confines of a single town.
Establishing the MC as a normal guy with a normal family at the beginning of the game is a massive mistake if you want your story to go in this direction, as is not explaining how the demons of this world are significantly different than the mythological stereotypes.
I just feel like this is a fix so easy, I could do it by just rewriting the dialogue in a few places. Don't even need to drastically reshape the flow of events.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

That's the thing really, I doubt the dev thought too hard about the situation when he was establishing the premise for the game. And when you do start thinking about it, your immersion suffers severely.
Hell, Corruption did this better by limiting itself to mind control and the confines of a single town.
Establishing the MC as a normal guy with a normal family at the beginning of the game is a massive mistake if you want your story to go in this direction, as is not explaining how the demons of this world are significantly different than the mythological stereotypes.
I just feel like this is a fix so easy, I could do it by just rewriting the dialogue in a few places. Don't even need to drastically reshape the flow of events.

I guess it would be relatively easy to change this. It has seemed very difficult to me to carry out the "conquest" of the world in the terms that the game proposes. But it must also be said that this justifies well the MC's need to convert all the women he meets.

 

[Vitklim]

I guess it would be relatively easy to change this. It has seemed very difficult to me to carry out the "conquest" of the world in the terms that the game proposes. But it must also be said that this justifies well the MC's need to convert all the women he meets.

The justification for MC to convert people he knows is just him being horny for people he knows. Like, that's enough. And the conquest can easily happen off-screen if it is established as the end-goal, which is why just not mentioning it in the beginning or the ending removes the issue outright.

 

[Addictions]

Love the game!

Don't know if they are Honey Select models or not, but if so would anyone happen to have the character cards?

They are definitely Honey Select models, and I'm seconding this request. Goth May especially.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

They are definitely Honey Select models, and I'm seconding this request. Goth May especially.

I have chosen to leave May as she's at first, with no breast growth or anything like that (something I have done every time I am given the option). I can't say if I like the goth May because I haven't seen her. In any case, I have doubts that I may prefer her to the one I have chosen.

The justification for MC to convert people he knows is just him being horny for people he knows. Like, that's enough. And the conquest can easily happen off-screen if it is established as the end-goal, which is why just not mentioning it in the beginning or the ending removes the issue outright.

You may be right, but I don't think many people have considered what you put forward. Anyway, I don't think it's necessary to continue discussing this aspect of the game, the only thing we can do at this point is to expose the same thing over and over again.