- May 11, 2020
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MC needs the rings to prevent Baltasar being reborn, all rings have magic and belonged to the Magicians who banned him, iirc
- Jul 25, 2017
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Called deceiving someone to make them think they are fine but they are walking into a trap without knowing. Which is why i thought Kira bringing up Blackheart's name was a sprinkle of truth but not the actual truth just to make it seem believable.
yeah I am talking about that was revealed tho
I mean that's my point though. If it was really a trap why warn the MC that he's going to meet blackheart at all? She doesn't have to tell him the reason they're going to Looter's bay. She could very easily lie about why they are there then trap him when he doesn't suspect it.
I don't really see how mentioning blackhearts name helps at all if its a trap. It just seems like your logic is that it's a lie because she lied before and not thinking about whether it actually makes any sense to lie.
- Jul 25, 2017
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Could be she isn't a good liar , so hiding a lie within a truth was a tactic she was using. Also could be also ive seen to many movies / tv shows where alot of traps are set up this way telling you are going to see the Boss but really it's a trap. Also there is the fact characters are flawed and rarely uses logic. So not everything things to be logical when it comes to setting up a trap especially for pirates.
My logic wasn't just because of her lie but the fact she is a pirate and the location was Hub of pirates. If it was just another location but not a pirate hub I might not thinking anything of it. I could think they were making a pit stop or something. So really it was everything added together to make me think so.
- Nov 9, 2023
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i assumed she was obfuscating.
but really you should just let it rest with that one. just read it all and sounds like everyone is just repeating themselves using different words.
either way seems at this point they are more concerned about winning than being right. which is weird cause opinions can be based on facts but never factual. oh well. give em hell dess
That makes even less sense. Why would you automatically assume a pirate in a pirate bay is lying to you when trying to tell you how to stay safe? Infact I don't even see why it being a pirate ay would factor in at all.
So I don't know exactly what series you're talking about so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure in most of those tv/movies the person who was being lead into a trap was intentionally going to meet their boss for whatever reason and wanted to meet them. In the example you gave they also didn't meet the boss at all so that also doesn't make any sense with what happened here and really doesn't make much sense as like I said the same thing could be accomplished by not mentioning blackheart at all.
I'm not really concerned with anything. I just think logically her lying makes no sense.
There isn't really anything we can be right about. MC believes her no matter what and she's not lying. It just seems like to me you guys aren't really thinking very thoroughly on why a character would lie and were just assuming it was a lie because they're a pirate and the lied once.
Like Dessolos pointed out she would have to be pretty bad at lying for that plan to make sense at all.
- Jul 25, 2017
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truth be told I wasn't looking to start round 2 of endless debates Storm always has I just was saying what I thought my first time playing that part and he was the one that was arguing with how I personally thought my first time playing. Not like I was saying it was a fact or my opinion. Just what I thought my first time.
and why wouldn't they? Pirates are liars , thief's , murders especially in a fantasy setting. I'd trust a pirate just as much as I trust Taron unless they proof to me otherwise. At that point she hasn't done anything to make me think she was trustworthy hell she lost some trust.
What do you mean not meet their boss???? Blackheart is legit the pirate king and Kira was taking him to meet aka their boss
If anything fantasy settings are more likely to do the whole chivalrous pirate trope. Half of all pirates in the fantasy settings are always good guys in some way, with there maybe being another secondary group of pirates that are the actual bad kind and don't get along with us. Kira and Pearl are pretty much exactly that in that they're good pirates. And I don't see many settings that go out of their way to make pirates liar. At worse they're mostly just enemies to fight and don't even get a chance to lie in the first place.
Even then I don't see why that would be relevant here but not a normal bay. The Mc isn't going off to talk with strangers he's staying with the crew he's been traveling with the whole time. Anything they could do there they could have done in any other port.
I'm not talking about Kira and Pearl. You gave an example where some guys were expected to meet a boss of some criminal group or whatever and were actually lead into a trap. That's not really happened here though and if you were going to pull that you don't even need to bring up blackheart at all. Just ask the mc to follow her.
I'm getting really annoyed by this. When do I have endless debates with anyone on here? The only time I've ever argued with anyone is over this and the Diana argument and that was like two days ago. Most of my time here is just talking about the lore and chiming in whenever pillix talks about wanting to kill the twins.
- Jan 18, 2022
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Made me want to replay so I combined how you're each looking at it and awarded points for major blows between Diana and the MC. My definition of a major blow is that there is at least a brief pause in the action because of it. We're not including when she knocks him off the ship (even though it would have broken all his bones if he was human), but the actual fight itself. Also included both the ice and the choke hold.
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- Jul 25, 2017
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Don't know what to tell you it's just how I think of pirates and being in a Den of Pirates makes it seem a hell alot more dangerous where I need to keep my guard up and trust no one in my mind unless I actually trust that character.
Like I said earlier not everything needs to be logical or make sense from fictional characters especially pirates. Besides it was my thought process my first time. Not like I was trying to say it as fact or my opinion. Just how I thought of things my first time , which is what started this whole stupid back and forth me saying my first experience going through it and you arguing with how I felt and thought. tbh I wasn't even gonna reply back but it kind of annoyed me you even argued how I thought my first time playing that part of the game. Be different if I said it was my opinion.
It makes sense to be wary in the sense that I could get mugged or something. It doesn't really make sense in the thought process that she's lying here, but not in a regular port. Or that they would need to lie to you at all once your at the home base when it would be easy to just hold them at knife point and take them prisoner without saying anything.
I never argued about how you felt though. I said from an outsider's perspective it looks like that's what your thought process was focused on and not whether or not this chain of events would be very logical. I was also talking about in general and not singling you or anyone else out. When you explained your thought process I didn't go "no that's not why" I just said that thought process also doesn't make that much sense.
You're right that not everything has to be logical, but I'm going to assume everything is logical and if an event happen that's not I'll just say it's bad writing. And Kira lying to the mc in that moment would just be bad writing. No matter what It just doesn't make any sense. Lying just doesn't accomplish anything at all in this situation so why do it?
Also why are we saying Kira lied instead of Kira AND Pearl lied? They both knew he was going to meet Blackheart and they're co-captains. I get Kira has more focus than Pearl during this story arc but they were both working together until pearl betrays them
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- Sep 29, 2023
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Sure, and that's what I did. But, and this is more of an issue with the entire writing, there's no followup, no consequences.
If you play a dark-path MC, then the story forces him to be good and kind, a paragon of virtue, except when a rare choice to do the opposite appears. Regardless of following Pearl below deck or not, when we meet up again with the whole ambassador situation, they both act as if they've been good friends their entire lives.
Let's say you saved up to buy life-altering medication for a loved one, and someone you trust steals it from you... You'd immediately see their point of view, with no trace of anger or disappointment? Even after you had to go out of your way to get it back, you'd just let bygones be bygones?
Even if objectively their need for this medicine would be bigger than yours, wouldn't it sting to have been betrayed like this?
Yeah, I honestly agree with all of that. But, again, Pearl doesn't even get an angry look, or a stern talking to. If you play the dark paths, why wouldn't he say something like: "If you or your sister betray me ever again, I'll put you where your father is."
If a friend of mine stole anything from me, even for the best reasons possible, I'd still be allowed to be angry at him, even if I understood his motivations.
I agree with this as well. He killed an innocent and let the guilty one walk. I expected her to come back to get revenge, but it seems Selena was just written out of the story.
Though, on the dark path there's another significant inconsistency here. If the MC killed the sister, then Eliza will kill Selena and feel bad about it. But earlier, the MC could've taught her that humans are below her, that she's an apex predator and people are just food to her. Wouldn't it make more sense that in that scenario, she'd revel in killing Selena?
That's pretty much my entire point. On the light-path, I think it's great that the MC forgives and forgets. On the dark path, not at all.
I think you're right. I can see why a woman-only society would fall for the MC head over heel. They have an itch to scratch. To add a supernatural explanation on top of that, one that, in practice, removes agency from the LI... That'd be too much.
- Sep 29, 2023
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There's also another aspect. Kira might be thinking things that convey remorse, but that's outside of the MC's perspective.
He can't act on what she was thinking because he doesn't know.
All he knows is that Kira and Pearl have cost him valuable time, and effectively kidnapped him. They didn't uphold their end of the bargain by not bringing him straight to death-island.
Exactly. One of the reasons for the rift between Blackheart and his daughters, is that the twins weren't doing pirate things in the traditional sense. Though the twins not being ruthless pirates is a whole other plothole.
You and me both, these choices were some of the most interesting things the game had going for it, I think.
But, then I noticed that they're largely cosmetic. Sure, the code assigns some points, but just like with all the trust points, they aren't ever used to guide the MC's reactions or personality.
When Eliza was purified, it was said that she'd start to "dessicate" (desiccate) the longer she went without the MC's blood. But when she contacts him while he's on the island, she's in perfect health and only drank a deus-ex vial of his blood after a week.
I'm inclined to see this as another plot hole, but I'll give some leeway because even the goddess didn't have a clue about what Eliza would become exactly.
It's very easy to see her warning as a low-key threat. "Be on your best behavior, or else."
You're so wrong there! Kira and Pearl are obviously good pirates! /s
The daughters of the pirate king are flying a pirate flag, but only attack "bad guy"-ships... But also not other pirates? It would've been so much more interesting if they were actually ruthless and unapologetic about what they did. Then, after dealing with Blackbeard, the player could've had choices to encourage them to keep at it, or to transition to legal trading or a merchant fleet.
Yeah, same. On the way to the shore, I didn't tell Kira anything because I didn't want to give her more knowledge to use against me. I also let her fall. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
It's the same thing either way. You're saying mc is fine so long as he does what Mc says.
He can't read her thoughts, but she has a very bad poker face it's pretty easy to tell she feels guilty just by her facial expressions. Plus the mc talks to her about and she says she doesn't want to do it.
That's what I'm saying though. At least half of pirates in fantasy setting are exactly like this and we never see do anything evil. Instead they're allies to the protagonist or the protagonist is part of their crew
- Sep 29, 2023
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Actions speak louder than words. Kira and Pearl have no issues going against Blackheart's wishes otherwise. Why is this situation different?
I mean yeah and her body language is actions. It's pretty apparent to someone even half paying attention that she feels guilty about it even without being able to see her thought. I'm not saying you should forgive them if you don't. I was frankly never felt upset about it in the first place or the thing Pearl does later. I'm just saying she pretty obviously she remorse and tries to explain to the mc that she doesn't want to do it.
Doesn't Kira literally say that their father doesn't like her because they go against their wishes and don't act like real pirates? Was their any information prior to this that suggested that the twins are 100% on board with everything their father does?
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- Sep 29, 2023
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That's what I'm wondering. I think the dev's fascination with pure characters undermines the story. Why are Kira and Pearl allowed to be "good pirates" by their father? How does it make sense that they're so fearful of him, but not fearful enough to either run away entirely and live a different life, or act like the pirates their father wants them to be? They want to have their cake and eat it too.
Why do they constantly go against his wishes in everyday life, but delivering the MC to him was an easy choice?
And, regardless of Kira's expressions or feelings of worry/remorse, they did hand him over. An entire week passed during which they could've told him, even prepared him. It's not entirely where death-island is, but if it had taken a week from the port, and also a week from pirate island, then that makes an equilateral triangle. They'd have been sailing in the wrong direction by 60° right after leaving the mainland. This isn't a "he forced our hand"-situation, but premeditation.
I mentioned this earlier but good pirates is a fairly standard fantasy trope that's pretty much in line with being chilverous thieves. They only pirate on people who deserve it so to speak and live by pirate code bla bla bla.
The whole we're not bad but are parents/parental figure in our life was and they're abusive and force us to do bad things is a pretty standard trope too. You guys mention pirates being evil and murders, but I almost never see that in fiction. And when I do their leader is typically the only named character and you never really converse with them.
Because like I've been say it's pretty obvious they didn't believe he was in actual danger.
Honestly this isn't really what I was talking about. Other person said Pearl's betrayal was ok because she felt remorseful, but Kira's wasn't even though she obviously felt remorseful as well. I'm not arguing whether or not what she did was right or wrong. I'm just saying it's a double standard that Pearls betrayal doesn't count because she said sorry, but Kira's does. Especially since Pearl's betrayal was way worse and more egregious.
It's just pretty obvious that Kira didn't believe Mc was actually going to get hurt and figured she was just robbing him of some valuable treasure same as pearl. For some reason this thread hates Kira, but loves Pearl even though the two characters really aren't that different, and they both have similar actions and motivations.
- Sep 29, 2023
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That's the thing, the chivalrous pirates we see in movies and games are an exception. They only appear to be the majority because they're getting the most screen time. Meanwhile, in games, we're killing hordes of nameless bad pirates.
These chivalrous pirates are interesting because of the contradiction of them "stealing for the right reasons", like Robin Hood. This contradiction only works when 99.9% of pirates are ruthless killers.
And, just looking at it from a practical point of view... How would Kira and Pearl even know who to attack? They say they rarely visit pirate island or even go ashore, so where are they getting their information from? What kind of information network would they need to consistently pick out valid targets? For that matter, wouldn't most smuggling be done by merchant ships, with only a few of the crew in the know?
Their perspective does not matter. What matters to the MC is that this trip has taken a valuable week with Eliza stuck in bed. Their father isn't inviting the MC over for coffee, he clearly wants whatever the MC is looking for. He caught wind of their destination, and the adventurer's guild involvement, and wants to gauge if whatever the MC is looking for would be useful to him.
And, if they didn't believe the MC to be in danger, why did both Kira and Pearl beg their father to be lenient on him?
Oh yeah, so far for being chivalrous pirates, right? Stealing valuable treasure from someone who's going to an island nobody ever returned from. What was that about only stealing from people who deserved it?