VN Ren'Py Nephilim [v0.5.9] [BuuPlays]

[Rehwyn]

There is another moral lesson that can be learned from “an eye for an eye”, which is that actions have consequences and one should be very careful so as to avoid giving others a reason to seek revenge/vengeance/retribution.

Certainly. But in this case MC is in control of the consequences. Assuming that you have to take revenge to teach a lesson is essentially a surrendering of that control. And seeking revenge/vengeance/retribution generally tends to perpetuate a cycle.

Not only might it set up others to come seek retaliation against MC (hypothetically here, I don't think we know of anyone that actually would be interested in seeking revenge for Selena or her sister), but psychology generally finds that it doesn't actually help that much emotionally after the initial, brief satisfaction and trains the brain to be more vulnerable to negative feelings such as anger associated with desiring revenge in the future.

Given that Selena's actions were not motivated by malice and she's not powerful, she's extremely unlikely to cause issues in the future if you let her go and tell her to leave with her sister. And she knows what she did was not a good act. So killing her sister serves essentially no purpose other than MC's temporary satisfaction. Appropriate for a Dark path, but definitely doesn't feel like it for a Light path, in my opinion.

 

[Pixillin']

Certainly. But in this case MC is in control of the consequences. Assuming that you have to take revenge to teach a lesson is essentially a surrendering of that control. And seeking revenge/vengeance/retribution generally tends to perpetuate a cycle.

Not only might it set up others to come seek retaliation against MC (hypothetically here, I don't think we know of anyone that actually would be interested in seeking revenge for Selena or her sister), but psychology generally finds that it doesn't actually help that much emotionally after the initial, brief satisfaction and trains the brain to be more vulnerable to negative feelings such as anger associated with desiring revenge in the future.

Given that Selena's actions were not motivated by malice and she's not powerful, she's extremely unlikely to cause issues in the future if you let her go and tell her to leave with her sister. So killing her serves essentially no purpose other than MC's temporary satisfaction. Appropriate for a Dark path, but definitely doesn't feel like it for a Light path, in my opinion.

Except on the path where she's still alive, Selena a) knows that Eliza is a vampire and b) hates Eliza because Eliza won't let Selena get close to MC again. So while she is alive, she is a threat - and since Buu won't let us stay close to Eliza, it seems safest to neutralize that threat before we go.

 

[Rehwyn]

Except on the path where she's still alive, Selena a) knows that Eliza is a vampire and b) hates Eliza because Eliza won't let Selena get close to MC again. So while she is alive, she is a threat - and since Buu won't let us stay close to Eliza, it seems safest to neutralize that threat before we go.

Information that we don't learn until after MC makes the choice of whether to kill the sister, if I remember correctly? And based on a decision Eliza makes too.

I'm going to let Eliza make her own decisions there, since she was the one mainly harmed.

 

[Hazardgaming]

Well I’m of the opinion that people shouldn’t blindly do other people’s bidding. Selena could have just hired the adventurers guild to help free her sister or informed the guards even if they likely wouldn’t have believed her.

The same goes for the maids that helped spin the lie that got the MC thrown in the dungeons.

Granted, non-compliance might result in unwanted outcomes for those people. But would people be as forgiving if those same characters had been men?

I’m not saying that any of them deserved to die or suffer physical harm, but to not face any consequences for aiding and abetting a criminal seems rather absurd.

 

[Pixillin']

Information that we don't learn until after MC makes the choice of whether to kill the sister, if I remember correctly? And based on a decision Eliza makes too.

I'm going to let Eliza make her own decisions there, since she was the one mainly harmed.

Yes, Eliza kills Selena but only if MC kills the sister - I don’t really want to kill the sister, but I also don’t want Eliza to have another enemy at large while I’m not there. I don’t like any of these choices but since we don’t get a choice about going to the Pirate Twins or going on the sea voyage after, I have to do what I can with the choices I do have. (I would have been happier if MC was there - even if those who stayed only had one short scene per update.)

 

[Rehwyn]

Yes, Eliza kills Selena but only if MC kills the sister - I don’t really want to kill the sister, but I also don’t want Eliza to have another enemy at large while I’m not there. I don’t like any of these choices but since we don’t get a choice about going to the Pirate Twins or going on the sea voyage after, I have to do what I can with the choices I do have. (I would have been happier if MC was there - even if those who stayed only had one short scene per update.)

Honestly, if you're basing your decision on whether or not to kill the sister based on game metaknowledge of what Eliza decides to do later with Selena and other factors that don't occur until after the decision is made, you might as well go all the way and acknowledge that there's not a chance in hell Buu is going to potentially kill off Eliza or permanently maim her in the future based on this decision, vampire hunters or not.

 

[OhGodNotAgain]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Did the mc just splash the drink on his face? Does he have Ted Stryker's drinking problem?

 

[Pixillin']

Honestly, if you're basing your decision on whether or not to kill the sister based on game metaknowledge of what Eliza decides to do later with Selena and other factors that don't occur until after the decision is made, you might as well go all the way and acknowledge that there's not a chance in hell Buu is going to potentially kill off Eliza or permanently maim her in the future based on this decision, vampire hunters or not.

Maybe, but honestly I’m thinking of going full dark path anyway - the more time I spend around the other characters, the less interested I am in saving the world.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Well I’m of the opinion that people shouldn’t blindly do other people’s bidding. Selena could have just hired the adventurers guild to help free her sister or informed the guards even if they likely wouldn’t have believed her.

The same goes for the maids that helped spin the lie that got the MC thrown in the dungeons.

Granted, non-compliance might result in unwanted outcomes for those people. But would people be as forgiving if those same characters had been men?

I’m not saying that any of them deserved to die or suffer physical harm, but to not face any consequences for aiding and abetting a criminal seems rather absurd.

Only 1 maid. Mei did the bullshitting all on her own. Vila had nothing to do with it. (and I was pissed we didn't get a chance to be angry about it not even for a second).
Same as people keep saying pirate twins betrayal. Only Kira betrayed MC, Pearl just beat him to a treasure.

 

[jadepaladin]

Maybe, but honestly I’m thinking of going full dark path anyway - the more time I spend around the other characters, the less interested I am in saving the world.

Full dark path at this point is nice with side of angst and occasional murder.

 

[Pixillin']

Only 1 maid. Mei did the bullshitting all on her own. Vila had nothing to do with it. (and I was pissed we didn't get a chance to be angry about it not even for a second).
Same as people keep saying pirate twins betrayal. Only Kira betrayed MC, Pearl just beat him to a treasure.

As you know, I disagree about Pearl - if it was just a shiny thing, I wouldn’t care but this was about Eliza and I have zero chill about that. That said, our inability to react to things is becoming a pattern. Our ability to make any meaningful decisions at all is rapidly waning. My goals though haven’t changed - protect Eliza and get revenge for MC’s parents. I do not care about the others, or their issues.

 

[MiltonPowers]

As you know, I disagree about Pearl - if it was just a shiny thing, I wouldn’t care but this was about Eliza and I have zero chill about that. That said, our inability to react to things is becoming a pattern. Our ability to make any meaningful decisions at all is rapidly waning. My goals though haven’t changed - protect Eliza and get revenge for MC’s parents. I do not care about the others, or their issues.

To Pearl it was just a shiny thing. A shiny thing that would save her sister's life, so of course she would be trying hard to get it. She was unaware of what it was or what it did or that it would give Eliza her legs back. She didn't make any deal with MC, nor agree to help him get it, so therefore by the very definition it cannot be a betrayal.

If you and I both want the last piece of chocolate and you take it first, that is not a betrayal (unless you agreed to let me have it). I'll be pissed at you, but you haven't betrayed me.

You can hate her cause she beat you to it, you can be pissed that her actions put Eliza's recovery at risk, you can dislike her as a person, but you cannot claim she betrayed you.

If MC had told her what he needed it for, knowing what we know of Pearl, they most likely would have agreed to use it to heal Eliza and then Pearl can take it back to save Kira. Everyone wins.

It's also quite interesting that Selena, Kira & Mei, who all knowingly put MC and/or Eliza lives in mortal danger, show no remorse or offer any real apology for their actions. While Pearl, who didn't know what she did, carries the guilt with her for ages and is extremely apologetic.

 

[jadepaladin]

It's also quite interesting that Selena, Kira & Mei, who all knowingly put MC and/or Eliza lives in mortal danger, show no remorse or offer any real apology for their actions. While Pearl, who didn't know what she did, carries the guilt with her for ages and is extremely apologetic.

I don't know what to add to this other than

I really just want it to pop up on every page from here on out.

 

[Pixillin']

To Pearl it was just a shiny thing. A shiny thing that would save her sister's life, so of course she would be trying hard to get it. She was unaware of what it was or what it did or that it would give Eliza her legs back. She didn't make any deal with MC, nor agree to help him get it, so therefore by the very definition it cannot be a betrayal.

If you and I both want the last piece of chocolate and you take it first, that is not a betrayal (unless you agreed to let me have it). I'll be pissed at you, but you haven't betrayed me.

You can hate her cause she beat you to it, you can be pissed that her actions put Eliza's recovery at risk, you can dislike her as a person, but you cannot claim she betrayed you.

If MC had told her what he needed it for, knowing what we know of Pearl, they most likely would have agreed to use it to heal Eliza and then Pearl can take it back to save Kira. Everyone wins.

It's also quite interesting that Selena, Kira & Mei, who all knowingly put MC and/or Eliza lives in mortal danger, show no remorse or offer any real apology for their actions. While Pearl, who didn't know what she did, carries the guilt with her for ages and is extremely apologetic.

Maybe but at the end of the day, we’re quibbling about a word - I deeply dislike Kira and Pearl both and never took any choice that would indicate otherwise. As I said before, if my count was right I was at -3 trust points with Kira and zero with Pearl when they decided I was the guy to come and save them. I really wish we could have said “no” - even if that meant zero content until the people who did go came back. I don’t like Selena, Kira or Mei either - or the princess, or the Queen, or Luna, or Alice or any of the Island girls. Sylph and Bori have been good to Eliza so I don’t dislike them, but that’s about as far as that goes. But if it were my choice, I wouldn’t go to anyone’s rescue unless I was being paid well and could take Eliza with.

 

[Dessolos]

Maybe but at the end of the day, we’re quibbling about a word - I deeply dislike Kira and Pearl both and never took any choice that would indicate otherwise. As I said before, if my count was right I was at -3 trust points with Kira and zero with Pearl when they decided I was the guy to come and save them. I really wish we could have said “no” - even if that meant zero content until the people who did go came back. I don’t like Selena, Kira or Mei either - or the princess, or the Queen, or Luna, or Alice or any of the Island girls. Sylph and Bori have been good to Eliza so I don’t dislike them, but that’s about as far as that goes. But if it were my choice, I wouldn’t go to anyone’s rescue unless I was being paid well and could take Eliza with.

just easier to say you don't like anyone . I thought it was you that said you would kill Bori if he came to visit your house unannounced must of been Trix.

Personally I see the Princess as Eliza 2.0. So I would want to do as much as for her as Eliza. The others it depends on the context. I see no reason to say no to helping Peral just cause the MC should be trying to make Allies. As far as I'm concerned the kingdom is useless and someone that knows that sea could be a valuable ally just incase it's needed.

 

[Pixillin']

just easier to say you don't like anyone . I thought it was you that said you would kill Bori if he came to visit your house unannounced must of been Trix.

Personally I see the Princess as Eliza 2.0. So I would want to do as much as for her as Eliza. The others it depends on the context. I see no reason to say no to helping Peral just cause the MC should be trying to make Allies. As far as I'm concerned the kingdom is useless and someone that knows that see could be a valuable ally just incase it's needed.

That might be a good reason to help admiral whatsername but no, I just wouldn’t have saved Pearl or Kira. I just wouldn’t have gone. I mean I don’t consider either of them to be particularly useful allies. I might as well make the bartender at the in an ally - way less travel involved. And no, I wouldn’t kill Bori. I think I just said that if I got my way and took Eliza somewhere far from the Kingdom to build our house that I wouldn’t invite him. But yeah, I don’t really find any of the other characters in this interesting at all and as I said a little while ago … not sure I really want to save the world anymore, as long as Eliza is ok I don’t really care about the rest. After exploring this world a bit and meeting it’s people, I think the last Nephilim might have had the right idea.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Maybe but at the end of the day, we’re quibbling about a word - I deeply dislike Kira and Pearl both and never took any choice that would indicate otherwise. As I said before, if my count was right I was at -3 trust points with Kira and zero with Pearl when they decided I was the guy to come and save them. I really wish we could have said “no” - even if that meant zero content until the people who did go came back. I don’t like Selena, Kira or Mei either - or the princess, or the Queen, or Luna, or Alice or any of the Island girls. Sylph and Bori have been good to Eliza so I don’t dislike them, but that’s about as far as that goes. But if it were my choice, I wouldn’t go to anyone’s rescue unless I was being paid well and could take Eliza with.

I realize it's just a word, and I'm honestly not trying to be pedantic. To me, betrayal has horrible undertones, so calling it a betrayal when it's not, (and I consider Pearl a fairly decent person), it does tend to trigger me. Saying you hate or deeply dislike her is fine, as that's your opinion and perfectly valid.

I suspect you are going to get more and more frustrated with this then, because we are going to be interacting with everyone and they are going to be in love with MC regardless of whether you keep turning them down or not. I really dislike Kira and Alice, but I accepted that I was going to be interacting with them and just learnt to live with it because I really like it overall and don't mind spending time with everyone else. Eliza is my very clear #1, but if I didn't like anyone else, I think I would have just deleted it and moved on by now.

 

[Dessolos]

not sure I really want to save the world anymore, as long as Eliza is ok I don’t really care about the rest. After exploring this world a bit and meeting it’s people, I think the last Nephilim might have had the right idea.

so you are saying your MC is basically a sith

Spoiler: other meme

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[jadepaladin]

I wish Buu had the time on their hands to toss out a 10 render or so ending for people that didn't want to go help Pearl/Kira. Just a game over like "You stayed in the capital, your growth stagnated, eventually whatever major plot is supposed to happen did and you died because you didn't have the allies or powers needed to deal with it. Hey, you built a house though...it burned down in the carnage."

Kinda like how in Suikoden 2 you can fuck off and run away with Nanami and you still get to play for another 5 hours or so before you hit a "You ran away, lived with Nanami, and died" ending.

 

[Dessolos]

I wish Buu had the time on their hands to toss out a 10 render or so ending for people that didn't want to go help Pearl/Kira. Just a game over like "You stayed in the capital, your growth stagnated, eventually whatever major plot is supposed to happen did and you died because you didn't have the allies or powers needed to deal with it. Hey, you built a house though...it burned down in the carnage."

Kinda like how in Suikoden 2 you can fuck off and run away with Nanami and you still get to play for another 5 hours or so before you hit a "You ran away, lived with Nanami, and died" ending.

lmfao that would be great would show saying no to helping potential allies has real consequences just cause of some silly dislike over a character