See, I'm different. I play the game for the lore and story. Eliza isn't the end all be all for me. I have no reason to drop the game because of a single character. There's nothing that says I have to like this character or I can't continue to play the game. It's not as intrusive as it might have came off. It's just clear the dev has his bias and it shows with some of the scenes.
I usually play for the story as well. In Nephilim, the early chapters were more about the romance between MC and Eliza. Had the story been about say, MC and Kira, I probably would have moved on as there wasn't a lot of lore in the early stages to hold me, but in this case, Eliza kept me interested. Interest in the Lore came later for me as the story developed.
It's all good, we are different people, we approach games in our way, nothing wrong with that. I find it interesting to learn how others approach games. So thanks for the back and forth.
I think this also boils down to how you play the game. I generally play these games with my personal feeling I don't give a shit about the MC's. So for me it didn't feel to fast it felt kind of perfect for a slow burn character , as I felt I got to know her and enjoy everything else in between.
But with Leyala it felt like it skipped the romance part because of the bond bs, It left me wanting to get to know her better but takes a very long time for that happen and still doesn't feel like there is much romance there for me. Even With Kali I felt a bit the same but better was only in the last Season she got better for me.
I get that with Leyala - fortunately for the Dev I like Leyala a lot. However, he built in a failsafe which is that Leyala lets you know really early on that she doesn't care who you fuck and there are a ton of other options. I also like the bond thing. I wish we had that with Eliza because with Leyala - if we're apart, I know she's fine or I know immediately if she's not fine.
It's tricky to want to tell a story a certain kind of way and then also give players agency. More so when you're consistent on updates and it limits your ability to really adjust the dialogue as needed when you give players tons of agency.
Honestly it feels like Buu wanted to tell a kinetic story but since those tend to be less popular, chose to give us the ability to accept/reject LIs but then doesn't have the necessary time in development to make sure all types of routes are covered. So you end up with the weird mess that is the story in it's current state unless you just run full harem. That has it's own downsides since it undermines a lot of what he says to Eliza and the romance between them.
Yeah I mean, it still is basically a kinetic novel - the only thing, so far, that really changes based on your choices is you see the lewd scenes, or you don't but everyone still acts like they happened. I redid my main save with the walkthrough and kept score. I'm on the friendship path (locked) with 5 of them and have less than 10 relationship points with everyone else combined (including the goddesses) but all the Lis still act like we're in a relationship - I mean the last update where Luna and the Princess, and then Pearl and Kira are all talking about how much they love MC - I have zero relationship points with any of them, am locked on the friendship path with Luna and the Princess, and actually have negative relationship points with Kira ... but it changes nothing (except the lewds didn't actually happen). So ... still a Kinetic novel. There are choice dialogues but they don't change anything. Oh, and you absolutely lie to Eliza all the time - MC keeps telling her that he won't leave her alone anymore.
So I did a thing. I had mentioned earlier that I wanted to go through and count all the lewd scenes in the game. I tossed URM on and decided to look at some of the coding. This ended up changing my plans somewhat because after a while, I can't tell when lewd scenes are going to be called up. I think it's due to not having a gallery.
I came away with some big takeaways in this project.
A) A lot of relationship flags are already in the game but spoil future characters. The harem will definitely harem.
B) There are path flags that are separate from relationship flags. I haven't broken down who has path only versus relationship only but a cursory glance tells me not many. Maid path is a good example.
C) The way this is coded sometimes hurts my brain. You can turn off a path for a character and then seemingly turn it back on later. This sounds good in practice, like if you weren't sure on someone or wanted them to wait for better circumstances (Sage from BaDIK is the best example of this) but this VN takes it to the extreme. You can flip flags in the same scene sometimes.
D) I don't know if anyone else will get a kick out of this but I certainly learned a lot from it. I tried to be objective and just report what I saw but sometimes some bias slips in. I was reminded how much I absolutely hate the first Meredith scene and the scene with Alice and Eliza in bed together. A replay did not help things, at all.
E) I tried to skip choices that were strictly flavor only but I included some when I felt it was appropriate.
I'm still not 100% sure how Buu calls lewd scenes sometimes but I blame that on a lack of experience with Ren'py. I would think they would be tied to a characters path flag but I never see the flags get called except in rare cases like achievements. Some lewd scenes just seem to be baked into the dialogue. Someone smarter than me can explain it better.
If there's any typos, just give me a heads up and I'll edit.
So I did a thing. I had mentioned earlier that I wanted to go through and count all the lewd scenes in the game. I tossed URM on and decided to look at some of the coding. This ended up changing my plans somewhat because after a while, I can't tell when lewd scenes are going to be called up. I think it's due to not having a gallery.
I came away with some big takeaways in this project.
A) A lot of relationship flags are already in the game but spoil future characters. The harem will definitely harem.
B) There are path flags that are separate from relationship flags. I haven't broken down who has path only versus relationship only but a cursory glance tells me not many. Maid path is a good example.
C) The way this is coded sometimes hurts my brain. You can turn off a path for a character and then seemingly turn it back on later. This sounds good in practice, like if you weren't sure on someone or wanted them to wait for better circumstances (Sage from BaDIK is the best example of this) but this VN takes it to the extreme. You can flip flags in the same scene sometimes.
D) I don't know if anyone else will get a kick out of this but I certainly learned a lot from it. I tried to be objective and just report what I saw but sometimes some bias slips in. I was reminded how much I absolutely hate the first Meredith scene and the scene with Alice and Eliza in bed together. A replay did not help things, at all.
E) I tried to skip choices that were strictly flavor only but I included some when I felt it was appropriate.
I'm still not 100% sure how Buu calls lewd scenes sometimes but I blame that on a lack of experience with Ren'py. I would think they would be tied to a characters path flag but I never see the flags get called except in rare cases like achievements. Some lewd scenes just seem to be baked into the dialogue. Someone smarter than me can explain it better.
If there's any typos, just give me a heads up and I'll edit.
So are you saying that, according to the code, I’m still on a harem path - even if I got zero points and activated no flags. I mean I’ve been careful not to trigger anything. I haven’t held, hugged, kissed, flirted with or fucked anyone except Eliza. I’ve always sided with Eliza over anyone else, I didn’t even catch Kira when she fell because I didn’t want to be on her path … so I’m still on a harem path?
So are you saying that, according to the code, I’m still on a harem path - even if I got zero points and activated no flags. I mean I’ve been careful not to trigger anything. I haven’t held, hugged, kissed, flirted with or fucked anyone except Eliza. I’ve always sided with Eliza over anyone else, I didn’t even catch Kira when she fell because I didn’t want to be on her path … so I’m still on a harem path?
I can say so far that there is no "harem" flag. Where I thought there would be one (the talk with Borri) literally nothing like that gets applied, it's all trust points. Each character has a path flag and some have a relationship flag. Path flags get turned on and off in a lot of scenes, it's frustrating to try to follow them, which is probably why Buu included "romance" and "friendly" text help into a lot of the choices. Otherwise how would you know that standing next to Luna instead of behind her would turn her path off, or grabbing her ass instead of her legs would do the same?
Relationship flags seem to only get affected by "Major Choices" except Eliza. Eliza's relationship flag is messed with a lot earlier but her actual "Major Choice" doesn't seem to come until Chapter 5. I think after these relationship flags start turning on, you have less and less choices involving that character and they start to go kinetic. Eliza's relationship flag in chapter 5 is her last choice in current content (here, I don't have 5.1 yet) and we know that you mess around with Eliza afterwards. I'm guessing that is how Buu will handle characters long term. You'll mess around with their path, decide if you want the relationship in a major choice, and possibly go kinetic from there. I could be wrong though.
Long winded but your Kira example...not catching her on the boat turns her path to false, but later on you could do something and the path would turn right back on. It's pretty confusing at times tbh. Kira only had one choice after you had her major choice (flipping her relationship on or off) and that was if you say I love you or not for trust points.
There's never been an Eliza only flag to set. There is her path flag and her relationship flag and if you played it the way you wanted to, Eliza should show true for both and then everyone else will show false on both. I still haven't quite separated the difference between a relationship flag and a path flag yet.
TLDR: You're not on a harem path but it always feels like you're one choice away from being on one. I'm gonna inline spoiler all of this, kind of annoying to do but I think it's for the best.
I can say so far that there is no "harem" flag. Where I thought there would be one (the talk with Borri) literally nothing like that gets applied, it's all trust points. Each character has a path flag and some have a relationship flag. Path flags get turned on and off in a lot of scenes, it's frustrating to try to follow them, which is probably why Buu included "romance" and "friendly" text help into a lot of the choices. Otherwise how would you know that standing next to Luna instead of behind her would turn her path off, or grabbing her ass instead of her legs would do the same?
Relationship flags seem to only get affected by "Major Choices" except Eliza. Eliza's relationship flag is messed with a lot earlier but her actual "Major Choice" doesn't seem to come until Chapter 5. I think after these relationship flags start turning on, you have less and less choices involving that character and they start to go kinetic. Eliza's relationship flag in chapter 5 is her last choice in current content (here, I don't have 5.1 yet) and we know that you mess around with Eliza afterwards. I'm guessing that is how Buu will handle characters long term. You'll mess around with their path, decide if you want the relationship in a major choice, and possibly go kinetic from there. I could be wrong though.
Long winded but your Kira example...not catching her on the boat turns her path to false, but later on you could do something and the path would turn right back on. It's pretty confusing at times tbh. Kira only had one choice after you had her major choice (flipping her relationship on or off) and that was if you say I love you or not for trust points.
There's never been an Eliza only flag to set. There is her path flag and her relationship flag and if you played it the way you wanted to, Eliza should show true for both and then everyone else will show false on both. I still haven't quite separated the difference between a relationship flag and a path flag yet.
TLDR: You're not on a harem path but it always feels like you're one choice away from being on one. I'm gonna inline spoiler all of this, kind of annoying to do but I think it's for the best.
As far as I can remember, based on your breakdown - everyone (except Eliza) should have their relationship and path flags off. A few of the choices seem really minor, unimportant and non-sexual or romantic and I can’t remember 100% but I know that if the walkthrough said romance or path or + … whatever I turned it down and if it said “Friendship Path Locked” - I did that one. So I should be locked for Sylph, Luna, Amelia and Pearl … and it seems like there was one more but don’t remember. The only ones I should have positive relationships or trust with are Bori, Maia and Lucid. So … hopefully safe from a harem for now.
As far as I can remember, based on your breakdown - everyone (except Eliza) should have their relationship and path flags off. A few of the choices seem really minor, unimportant and non-sexual or romantic and I can’t remember 100% but I know that if the walkthrough said romance or path or + … whatever I turned it down and if it said “Friendship Path Locked” - I did that one. So I should be locked for Sylph, Luna, Amelia and Pearl … and it seems like there was one more but don’t remember. The only ones I should have positive relationships or trust with are Bori, Maia and Lucid. So … hopefully safe from a harem for now.
I don't have a great example of Eliza to use for this so I'm gonna use Luna because it's fresh. You can pick the "friendly' choice with her at every opportunity, keeping her path flag set off and she's still gonna do whatever the story wants her to until you hit the major choice, which turns the relationship and path flag on.
I don't have a great example of Eliza to use for this so I'm gonna use Luna because it's fresh. You can pick the "friendly' choice with her at every opportunity, keeping her path flag set off and she's still gonna do whatever the story wants her to until you hit the major choice, which turns the relationship and path flag on.
Right but I hit that choice - after going (friendly) etc - then Let's Have a Rematch (Friendship Lock In) but in the scene where MC isn't there, during the last update - she still tells her mom that you're the only one she wants.
Right but I hit that choice - after going (friendly) etc - then Let's Have a Rematch (Friendship Lock In) but in the scene where MC isn't there, during the last update - she still tells her mom that you're the only one she wants.
Been a while since I was last in here...but this shit is exactly why I ditched this updates ago. That, and a lack of original Pearl. Everything is way too forced and I shouldn't need 25 fucking choices to reject someone only to still be given a damn finakl choice and they stay stuck to the MC regardless.
I wonder..has the MC remembered he was supposed to be getting revenge for his parents or is he still waiting for his dick to be dry?
Been a while since I was last in here...but this shit is exactly why I ditched this updates ago. That, and a lack of original Pearl. Everything is way too forced and I shouldn't need 25 fucking choices to reject someone only to still be given a damn finakl choice and they stay stuck to the MC regardless.
I wonder..has the MC remembered he was supposed to be getting revenge for his parents or is he still waiting for his dick to be dry?
MC is too busy with his face in Pearl's ass to worry about Taron. I posted a wall of text earlier in the day about what I think are permanent locks to routes but time will tell if Buu will stick to them or not. I can almost guarantee the dialogue will slip up here and there. This VN frustrates the hell out of me because I like it but there's so many things I want done better.
MC is too busy with his face in Pearl's ass to worry about Taron. I posted a wall of text earlier in the day about what I think are permanent locks to routes but time will tell if Buu will stick to them or not. I can almost guarantee the dialogue will slip up here and there. This VN frustrates the hell out of me because I like it but there's so many things I want done better.
It is what it is. It's not changing. It's the way it has been since the start.
You can be locked on friends path with anyone, but the dialogue and actions will mostly play out like you are not. Every girl IS going to act like they are with you. Lewd scenes and some dialogue will be skipped automatically but not all of it. This is so Buu can still put out monthly updates without having to add in all the branching that would be required for all the possible combinations that players may choose.
I didn't like it, but I have learnt to live with it, because I like the AVN, the story and most of the girls. I do multiple paths including solos and I can laugh about some of the things said now. But if you can't live with it, it is not going to change, there WILL be dialogue indicating you are with a certain girl when you are not. You will be much better off, deleting the game, ignoring the thread and moving on to something that suits you.
This was not aimed at you guys in particular, but as someone who has been playing since the beginning, this complaint has been around a long time and rehashed over and over on just about every page.
It is what it is. It's not changing. It's the way it has been since the start.
You can be locked on friends path with anyone, but the dialogue and actions will mostly play out like you are not. Every girl IS going to act like they are with you. Lewd scenes and some dialogue will be skipped automatically but not all of it. This is so Buu can still put out monthly updates without having to add in all the branching that would be required for all the possible combinations that players may choose.
I didn't like it, but I have learnt to live with it, because I like the AVN, the story and most of the girls. I do multiple paths including solos and I can laugh about some of the things said now. But if you can't live with it, it is not going to change, there WILL be dialogue indicating you are with a certain girl when you are not. You will be much better off, deleting the game, ignoring the thread and moving on to something that suits you.
This was not aimed at you guys in particular, but as someone who has been playing since the beginning, this complaint has been around a long time and rehashed over and over on just about every page.
So that's the path vs relationship flag? I initially thought it meant friendship but given how everyone just seems to be in the story regardless of how you treat them I dismissed the path flag being related to friendship. The relationship flag is obvious and outside of Eliza, only seems to get triggered by each LI's major choice. The other flag for each person just seems trivial sometimes.
So that's the path vs relationship flag? I initially thought it meant friendship but given how everyone just seems to be in the story regardless of how you treat them I dismissed the path flag being related to friendship. The relationship flag is obvious and outside of Eliza, only seems to get triggered by each LI's major choice. The other flag for each person just seems trivial sometimes.
I see the path flag as a 'yes you are interested', but it has not become an official relationship yet, until the major choice.
For e.g. right now in my (almost) harem route I am on Frida's path (because we fooled around a couple of times), but I am NOT on her relationship path, because there has been no Major Choice yet. I will constantly get choices with her and if at anytime I say no I'll go off her path, or vice versa, until the Major Choice.
Whereas I constantly turned Kira down and am NOT on her path, and when I turned her down at the Major Choice I stayed of her Relationship Path as well.
It is what it is. It's not changing. It's the way it has been since the start.
You can be locked on friends path with anyone, but the dialogue and actions will mostly play out like you are not. Every girl IS going to act like they are with you. Lewd scenes and some dialogue will be skipped automatically but not all of it. This is so Buu can still put out monthly updates without having to add in all the branching that would be required for all the possible combinations that players may choose.
I didn't like it, but I have learnt to live with it, because I like the AVN, the story and most of the girls. I do multiple paths including solos and I can laugh about some of the things said now. But if you can't live with it, it is not going to change, there WILL be dialogue indicating you are with a certain girl when you are not. You will be much better off, deleting the game, ignoring the thread and moving on to something that suits you.
This was not aimed at you guys in particular, but as someone who has been playing since the beginning, this complaint has been around a long time and rehashed over and over on just about every page.
IMO he'd be better off doing multiple paths instead of monthly updates - nearly all of the big games on steam have paths - but I get that some Devs aren't in this to make money or build a reputation. Do you think that, in the end, they all end up living with MC - even if you rejected all of them? Or will there come a point when choices start to matter?
IMO he'd be better off doing multiple paths instead of monthly updates - nearly all of the big games on steam have paths - but I get that some Devs aren't in this to make money or build a reputation. Do you think that, in the end, they all end up living with MC - even if you rejected all of them? Or will there come a point when choices start to matter?
I believe there will be different endings/epilogues (or I'd be wasting my time doing over 15 paths. LOL).
This is based on what he said 2 years ago and I haven't seen anything to contradict it since.
"there is currently planned 2 main endings 1 for each morality path.
on top of that I plan to do some epilogues depending on which girls you have romanced.
Many choices serve the purpose of building your trust with characters, and at a later date some scenes will only happen if you have enough points, so small choices don't directly affect your ending, however when they add up you might not be able to finish with a girl if her points are too low."
I see the path flag as a 'yes you are interested', but it has not become an official relationship yet, until the major choice.
For e.g. right now in my (almost) harem route I am on Frida's path (because we fooled around a couple of times), but I am NOT on her relationship path, because there has been no Major Choice yet. I will constantly get choices with her and if at anytime I say no I'll go off her path, or vice versa, until the Major Choice.
Whereas I constantly turned Kira down and am NOT on her path, and when I turned her down at the Major Choice I stayed of her Relationship Path as well.
Thanks for confirming it for me. This backs up what I seemed to find earlier, once that relationship flag goes up, it's permanent. The only exception to this was Eliza because her relationship flag was messed with in earlier chapters and her major choice didn't come until chapter 5.
Edit- Adding this on because of the talk about points. I haven't seen points get used at all yet but it makes sense if Buu is doing a multiple episode project to just stockpile them all towards an ending (like how points influence your ending in Melody).
