VN Ren'Py New Antioch [R0.6] [TheRedMyst]

[Filipis]

I'm not sure Gaius knows, but it's possible. I think the discussions we've had with him were mainly intended to test us, and check that our character is possibly suitable to succeed him one day, that's how I see it.
Indeed, it's a fairly common trope in SF and dystopian works in general, and will no doubt pose a certain ethical dilemma for many of the characters in the plot. I share your view that Luciana's dissociative personality disorder will undoubtedly play a role in this army-machine business, and shed light on how she came to create it. I suspect that as far as Faustina is involved, she sees these machines as a solution to maintaining her power and ensuring the empire's future against the declining birth rate and the promise of extinction of the human species. It would be interesting to know how the flawed relationship between Faustina and her children led them to develop such psychiatric disorders, and what role this played in the whole story.
It seems that Milena has been involved in experiments on human beings, possibly against her will, and perhaps she has a role to play in this machine soldier business too. She's not necessarily a bad person, but her inability to read and take into account the feelings of others, and her lack of moral restraint in conducting experiments for the sole sake of her scientific curiosity, certainly puts her in a rather gray moral position. In any case, many of the characters seem to have shortcomings, if not ambiguous personalities.

I think Faustina might just be aware about Luciana's "chaos" personality, and even uses that to her advantage on occasion (like creating the cyborg slaves), but never told her.

And just an FYI, it's not Faustina's "flawed" relationship with her children that caused them psychological disorders (though it probably didn't help either), the in-game lore book says that Faustina's unorthodox method of conception is the primary culprit (AFAIK, Faustina refused to get "naturally" inseminated by her husband, the now deceased Emperor of NA, as she considered him disgusting in that way - so she arranged for a surrogate pregnancy, where another woman was implanted with her fertilized eggs). It's also why Milena talked Faustina into keeping MC around, as he could be her last chance to "naturally" conceive a proper, biological child (due to her age & virus).

 

[Pgsurprise]

Dante was quick to jump to the conclusion that the empire had murdered his father and turned everyone against it in a bid to conceal his crime. Moreover, the only point of inventing this false story accusing the MC of being the perpetrator of the murder is to break the ties between the two men and Aqua Palma in case things go wrong, but this puts a target on our character's back right from the start, which for an infiltration and intelligence-gathering mission isn't a great thing, let's face it. So while it's not clear that Dante deliberately set out to kill his adopted brother, we can nonetheless conclude that he wanted to create a diversion for his brother and the whole of Aqua Palma, to cover his tracks, to get his brother out of the way by sending him on a mission that is highly uncertain at best, if not suicidal, and by doing so, he gets rid of a pretender to the Princeps throne who, whether the MC likes it or not, could have raised doubts among the people of Aqua Palma.
Admittedly, Dante isn't particularly clever, but he's probably savvy enough not to want to stir up dissension around him as soon as he's invested as the new Princeps of Aqua Palma. I think he's sufficiently aware that he has a relative legitimacy and that some people would have preferred his brother to take charge, as in their eyes he's already proved his worth. As for the rest, yes, I too feel that these are mere speculations, hot air and theses that don't hold a single bit of water.




I'm not sure Gaius knows, but it's possible. I think the discussions we've had with him were mainly intended to test us, and check that our character is possibly suitable to succeed him one day, that's how I see it.
Indeed, it's a fairly common trope in SF and dystopian works in general, and will no doubt pose a certain ethical dilemma for many of the characters in the plot. I share your view that Luciana's dissociative personality disorder will undoubtedly play a role in this army-machine business, and shed light on how she came to create it. I suspect that as far as Faustina is involved, she sees these machines as a solution to maintaining her power and ensuring the empire's future against the declining birth rate and the threat of extinction of the human species. It would be interesting to know how the flawed relationship between Faustina and her children led them to develop such psychiatric disorders, and what role this played in the whole story.
It seems that Milena has been involved in experiments on human beings, possibly against her will, and perhaps she has a role to play in this machine soldier business too. She's not necessarily a bad person, but her inability to read and take into account the feelings of others, and her lack of moral restraint in conducting experiments for the sole sake of her scientific curiosity, certainly puts her in a rather gray moral position. In any case, many of the characters seem to have shortcomings, if not ambiguous personalities. And it's a good thing for the storytelling to have characters who are ambivalent in terms of morality and personality, it makes the whole thing that much richer and more interesting. They're all imperfect, and much more convincing that way.

I'm not sure I disagree with much of this, but it is fiction. So, I think more like James Bond, the spy everyone knows. Also, personally, I think Dante is a twit and don't really care what he thinks.

 

[Ebonheart (FR)]

I think Faustina might just be aware about Luciana's "chaos" personality, and even uses that to her advantage on occasion (like creating the cyborg slaves), but never told her.

And just an FYI, it's not Faustina's "flawed" relationship with her children that caused them psychological disorders (though it probably didn't help either), the in-game lore book says that Faustina's unorthodox method of conception is the primary culprit (AFAIK, Faustina refused to get "naturally" inseminated by her husband, the now deceased Emperor of NA, as she considered him disgusting in that way - so she arranged for a surrogate pregnancy, where another woman was implanted with her fertilized eggs). It's also why Milena talked Faustina into keeping MC around, as he could be her last chance to "naturally" conceive a proper, biological child (due to her age & virus).

I was aware that the Empress's children had been conceived in an irregular manner, and it's likely that this contributed in part to their psychiatric disorders, although I didn't know the details. In my opinion, the driving force or catalyst behind their psychological problems lies in the toxic relationship they have maintained with their mother throughout their growth. Again, I guess it's a matter of perception or opinion. Of course we can always quibble, debate and thus end up going round in circles about which phenomenon or factor has more impact than the other if it pleases you. x)

I'm not sure I disagree with much of this, but it is fiction. So, I think more like James Bond, the spy everyone knows. Also, personally, I think Dante is a twit and don't really care what he thinks.

The fact that a work is fictional in no way diminishes the need for a story to be coherent. I do agree that Dante is fundamentally a person lacking in judgment, prone to succumb to various temptations, to get angry rather quickly and to be easily manipulated. That's why I've noticed a few inconsistencies with the spy mission/arena and Luciana's dialogue (mentioned by others here), in which she hints at her double persona. Maybe, after all, the developer was simply too keen on the story arc around the arena, and didn't care much about the details of how to get his main character there - my guess. Perhaps the dev just wanted a dramatic death, a semblance of downfall or back to scratch for the MC and a “Gladiator”-style plot revolving around a struggle for survival in the arena.
But I don't know, I'm just pointing out inconsistencies and making assumptions. I don't hold the absolute truth.

 

[Pgsurprise]

I was aware that the Empress's children had been conceived in an irregular manner, and it's likely that this contributed in part to their psychiatric disorders, although I didn't know the details. In my opinion, the driving force or catalyst behind their psychological problems lies in the toxic relationship they have maintained with their mother throughout their growth. Again, I guess it's a matter of perception or opinion. Of course we can always quibble, debate and thus end up going round in circles about which phenomenon or factor has more impact than the other if it pleases you. x)





The fact that a work is fictional in no way diminishes the need for a story to be coherent. I do agree that Dante is fundamentally a person lacking in judgment, prone to succumb to various temptations, to get angry rather quickly and to be easily manipulated. That's why I've noticed a few inconsistencies with the spy mission/arena and Luciana's dialogue, in which she hints at her double persona. Maybe, after all, the developer was simply too keen on the story arc around the arena, and didn't care much about the details of how to get his main character there - my guess. Perhaps the dev just wanted a dramatic death, a semblance of downfall or back to scratch for the MC and a “Gladiator”-style plot revolving around a struggle for survival in the arena.

I was talking about Dante wanting him dead aspect. And, again, people accept James Bond as entertaining stories, despite not being remotely covert.

As for the focus on the arena, I suppose we have to see if that plot continues. I doubt it goes back there.

 

[Ebonheart (FR)]

I was talking about Dante wanting him dead aspect. And, again, people accept James Bond as entertaining stories, despite not being remotely covert.

As for the focus on the arena, I suppose we have to see if that plot continues. I doubt it goes back there.

I'm not suggesting that Dante definitely wanted him dead. It's perhaps more credible and at least possible to remove him physically, but it's not totally out of the question either. It's simply too risky to delve too deeply into the intentions of a character about whom we don't know everything at this stage.
I understand the James Bond analogy, and therefore the suspension of disbelief, but whereas it's accepted in your example, I don't see how it applies here. Story simplicities or plot shortcuts are conceivable, as are simple neglects. Furthermore, the desire to entertain doesn't prevent a story from being well-crafted and coherent, it just depends on the authors and their intentions with regard to the target audience. However, we can disagree and not have the same perception, where I see simple negligence or disparities in script coherence, you see deliberate omissions. I still don't think it works here.
I don't think we'll be back fighting in the arena either, unless the scenario proves otherwise, which wasn't my point here anyway.

 

[Pgsurprise]

I'm not suggesting that Dante definitely wanted him dead. It's perhaps more credible and at least possible to remove him physically, but it's not totally out of the question either. It's simply too risky to delve too deeply into the intentions of a character about whom we don't know everything at this stage.
I understand the James Bond analogy, and therefore the suspension of disbelief, but whereas it's accepted in your example, I don't see how it applies here. Story simplicities or plot shortcuts are conceivable, as are simple neglects. Furthermore, the desire to entertain doesn't prevent a story from being well-crafted and coherent, it just depends on the authors and their intentions with regard to the target audience. However, we can disagree and not have the same perception, where I see simple negligence or disparities in script coherence, you see deliberate omissions. I still don't think it works here.
I don't think we'll be back fighting in the arena either, unless the scenario proves otherwise, which wasn't my point here anyway.

Well, I can live a happy and fruitful life knowing that we disagree on this (my view) minor point.

 

[Ebonheart (FR)]

Well, I can live a happy and fruitful life knowing that we disagree on this (my view) minor point.

I wasn't going to bump into you or hate you for a slight difference of opinion anyway haha It's actually quite minor, I'm simply someone attached to the way a good story is constructed, without it necessarily being complicated, but that it holds together and remains coherent. The level of writing, without being perfect, is already amply superior to others who claim to build their avns around a rich dramatic scenario. So I can perfectly live with that too, no worries

 

[Hawka1O7]

Sigh, I didn't ignore anything. I meant it in general. As I said, I explained everything several times and backed it up by screenshots from the game. The game says what it says.
In short:
There is no definitive evidence Dante is trying to kill MC yet in my game. Future updates may or may not provide some.
MC needs to get into NA quickly, otherwise it would take months or years [more on this at the end]
He needs to definitively cut ties with Aqua Palma otherwise he would not be trusted in NA and would get nowhere as a spy/infiltrator
Additionally, Faustina already wants MC killed because she doesn't want him as a potential successor to Patrius since she perceives him as a more dangerous person than Dante. That's the real reason Aquila was supposed to kill him. It would be actual suicide for MC to just waltz into NA as an immigrant for no reason. She would probably kill him on day one. Since he no longer has ties to Aqua Palma he no longer represents that threat.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're so fixated on him, but discussion about Dante is largely pointless for one simple reason. He has points. That is to say, his behavior depends on player input. If you treat him like shit, it's possible he will reciprocate and maybe even try to murder MC. On the other hand, if you treat him better you will likely get better treatment. Everyone will probably be able to adjust his behavior.
In my game I treated him well and as of now, 0.5 update, it does not look like he's trying to kill MC. He's jealous, maybe depressed and suffers from inferiority complex because everyone always had higher opinion of MC rather than him, but that is understandable. It could not have been easy being compared to MC. Dante is unaware MC is basically bio-engineered superhuman and in fact no one can compete with MC.

Feel free to ignore me because that's all you did in my post. I repeatedly brought up the point about the cover story putting

Again, you're deflecting and bringing up that point is irrelevant because as I have repeatedly tried to course correct this conversation to, this isn't about New Antioch. Again it doesn't matter what Faustina did or did not intend to do, this is about irrefutable facts/evidence that is staring you in the face and you just completely ignore it once again, that being Dante doing something that only served one purpose. Which was creating a cover story designed to get the MC killed, and you just completely ignored it again. And again, and again.

I wouldn't be so fixated about him if you didn't keep bringing up pointless miscellaneous things and argue about subjectivity on what is a clear cut fact. Or say that is somehow about game input when that has no effect on what he does. Because no matter how badly or how good you treat Dante, he will always do this same thing. Sending us into New Antioch under certain death for the fake crime of patricide hanging over the MC's head. And then telling you it was for your own protection when it does the complete opposite. I'm pretty sure I'm writing this in plain English so what exactly about this is so hard to grasp that you never address it? Even if you gave me a reason I disagree with I'd probably have dropped it by now, but here you're just plain missing for no apparent reason

I will give you one kudos, that bit about Faustina being the one to tightening immigration was missed by me since I never picked that option before, glad we clarified it tightened under HER reign. of course You also know that it completely destroys your argument about cyclical abuse by New Antioch to the provinces now because Faustina is actually trying to address the problem the former free movement policy had on them retaining labor? Cause leaving out the part that the change happened under her reign was just a small mistake on your part, I'm sure

Now if only you weren't constantly blind to the plain evidence staring back into your face, but at least I don't have to waste my breath anymore spelling it out for you

 

[MagicMan753]

Feel free to ignore me because that's all you did in my post. I repeatedly brought up the point about the cover story putting

Again, you're deflecting and bringing up that point is irrelevant because as I have repeatedly tried to course correct this conversation to, this isn't about New Antioch. Again it doesn't matter what Faustina did or did not intend to do, this is about irrefutable facts/evidence that is staring you in the face and you just completely ignore it once again, that being Dante doing something that only served one purpose. Which was creating a cover story designed to get the MC killed, and you just completely ignored it again. And again, and again.

I wouldn't be so fixated about him if you didn't keep bringing up pointless miscellaneous things and argue about subjectivity on what is a clear cut fact. Or say that is somehow about game input when that has no effect on what he does. Because no matter how badly or how good you treat Dante, he will always do this same thing. Sending us into New Antioch under certain death for the fake crime of patricide hanging over the MC's head. And then telling you it was for your own protection when it does the complete opposite. I'm pretty sure I'm writing this in plain English so what exactly about this is so hard to grasp that you never address it? Even if you gave me a reason I disagree with I'd probably have dropped it by now, but here you're just plain missing for no apparent reason

I will give you one kudos, that bit about Faustina being the one to tightening immigration was missed by me since I never picked that option before, glad we clarified it tightened under HER reign. of course You also know that it completely destroys your argument about cyclical abuse by New Antioch to the provinces now because Faustina is actually trying to address the problem the former free movement policy had on them retaining labor? Cause leaving out the part that the change happened under her reign was just a small mistake on your part, I'm sure

Now if only you weren't constantly blind to the plain evidence staring back into your face, but at least I don't have to waste my breath anymore spelling it out for you

Dante didn't try to kill you. He placed the blame on us, because his plan was to infiltrate new antioch and put the balme on them even though he know what he did. The MC's goal was to go undercover, he was not supposed to get caught, the do was not supposed to find him. Dante at no point ratted us out or told them we were coming. I didn't know Dante can control dogs to give away our location apparently. Putting the blame on MC was easier since the MC was going undecover. Dante may have made slme questionable decisions, liek working wirh bad people, but Dante's goal was for mc to take down new antioch and put the blame on them, because he didn't want to admit to his brother what he did. So no Dante did not try to kill us. You can argue all you want after this, I will no longer respond to this srgument between you two or you view points beacaue you are clearly stuck in your mind about something not true.

 

[S1nsational]

An interesting update. One the one hand, very important story progress was made, but on the other hand I care more that we just got harem confirmation

 

[JJJ84]

Just got done with the update, and huh, it was pretty good.

Really enjoying this expedition arc; ngl, I'm really digging the MC travelling around going to places of old and new places cause it allows for plenty of world building.
Not to mention the responses/reactions of characters like Luci who's only lived in the Capital experiencing just how worse off everyone else is compared to her life of luxury, I do think adds a lot to her characterization.

Luci's whole "I will stand between you and my mother if it's required."
At first I thought it was only her individual support of the MC, but that whole twist in the end of the update with the robocop legion it does seem that she can physically back it up, given she's the only one who currently has the command codes to the legions.


And Gaius?
He's continuing to be my favorite non-LI character with this game.

Not that there's all that many likable or very memorable non-LI characters here, but with how honored and principled his character is and his chemistry with MC and the girls.
One can't help but root for him to survive in all dangerous encounters and continue to give his sage advice to MC, Imperatix and the girls.

 

[Pgsurprise]

Sending us into New Antioch under certain death for the fake crime of patricide hanging over the MC's head.

We didn't die. Did you mean uncertain death?

Sorry, I'm just going for a laugh. There's already plenty of posts that have shown why people disagree.

 

[ImSenjou]

I have doubts about what the possible future would be if the MC chooses Aqua Palma and not New Antioch, would it be a future where he gets screwed and dies?

The harem only works if he is on the side of New Antioch, since except for Safiya, everyone is from New Antioch, including the future empress and her sister.

In Aqua Palma there is no one, and if the "rebels" manage to take New Antioch, which seems impossible, but let's assume it happens, then in that situation, the girls would have resentment against the MC, and again, only Safiya could be an exception.

 

[BurgRoyce]

I'm fine with grey morality characters, but, as another user previously said, there must be a line at some point between grey and outright evil. And that kind of "technological necromancy" so to speak, falls way beyond that line

On another topic, according to the walktrough, it seems that Luciana's path requires being also on Aquila's path. Forcing you to both or neither of them...
And even more weirdly, when my MC talks with Luciana after the battle, they have a weird conversation about you having rejected Aquila, and Luciana being mad about it... A conversation that, again according to the walktrough, ONLY happens if you're on both paths.
But that previous scene about rejecting Aquila in front of Luciana never happened on my playthrough because I'm not on Aquila's path , but game seems to assume it happened...

That's not a bug but a weird and illogical conversation that should be different, IMHO.

 

[JustMy2Cents]

Absolutely love this Game.

We need less copy/paste Highschool or returning to Landlady Stories and more like this

 

[Krytax123]

Just got done with the update, and huh, it was pretty good.

Really enjoying this expedition arc; ngl, I'm really digging the MC travelling around going to places of old and new places cause it allows for plenty of world building.
Not to mention the responses/reactions of characters like Luci who's only lived in the Capital experiencing just how worse off everyone else is compared to her life of luxury, I do think adds a lot to her characterization.

Luci's whole "I will stand between you and my mother if it's required."
At first I thought it was only her individual support of the MC, but that whole twist in the end of the update with the robocop legion it does seem that she can physically back it up, given she's the only one who currently has the command codes to the legions.


And Gaius?
He's continuing to be my favorite non-LI character with this game.

Not that there's all that many likable or very memorable non-LI characters here, but with how honored and principled his character is and his chemistry with MC and the girls.
One can't help but root for him to survive in all dangerous encounters and continue to give his sage advice to MC, Imperatix and the girls.

Agree with everything yet unfortunaly i think Gaius dying is set in stone already, hes way too cool to not die heroically

 

[Krytax123]

I have doubts about what the possible future would be if the MC chooses Aqua Palma and not New Antioch, would it be a future where he gets screwed and dies?

The harem only works if he is on the side of New Antioch, since except for Safiya, everyone is from New Antioch, including the future empress and her sister.

In Aqua Palma there is no one, and if the "rebels" manage to take New Antioch, which seems impossible, but let's assume it happens, then in that situation, the girls would have resentment against the MC, and again, only Safiya could be an exception.

I doubt it will be a decision like that (supporting new antioch or aqua palma) and i suspect it will more like split up in different "new antioch" factions if any.

I'm fine with grey morality characters, but, as another user previously said, there must be a line at some point between grey and outright evil. And that kind of "technological necromancy" so to speak, falls way beyond that line

On another topic, according to the walktrough, it seems that Luciana's path requires being also on Aquila's path. Forcing you to both or neither of them...
And even more weirdly, when my MC talks with Luciana after the battle, they have a weird conversation about you having rejected Aquila, and Luciana being mad about it... A conversation that, again according to the walktrough, ONLY happens if you're on both paths.
But that previous scene about rejecting Aquila in front of Luciana never happened on my playthrough because I'm not on Aquila's path , but game seems to assume it happened...

That's not a bug but a weird and illogical conversation that should be different, IMHO.

Wasnt like that in my pt, the dialogue (while being with both) made sense, didnt tried to reject Aquila tho

 

[Danv]

kinda surprised what revisiting Aqua Palma was so uneventful, was fully expecting for shit to really go down there or at least some major drama happening, but no - just a short stop on a journey and it's done

 

[S1nsational]

I have doubts about what the possible future would be if the MC chooses Aqua Palma and not New Antioch, would it be a future where he gets screwed and dies?

The harem only works if he is on the side of New Antioch, since except for Safiya, everyone is from New Antioch, including the future empress and her sister.

In Aqua Palma there is no one, and if the "rebels" manage to take New Antioch, which seems impossible, but let's assume it happens, then in that situation, the girls would have resentment against the MC, and again, only Safiya could be an exception.

I predict that our friendly neighborhood three headed dog will take over New Antioch and Aqua Palma before our return from the Seers.

 

[gregers]

I have doubts about what the possible future would be if the MC chooses Aqua Palma and not New Antioch,

1) Burn the fucker down.
2) Dance a merry jig.
3) Skip away whistling.

And even more weirdly, when my MC talks with Luciana after the battle, they have a weird conversation about you having rejected Aquila, and Luciana being mad about it... A conversation that, again according to the walktrough, ONLY happens if you're on both paths.
But that previous scene about rejecting Aquila in front of Luciana never happened on my playthrough because I'm not on Aquila's path , but game seems to assume it happened...

That's not a bug but a weird and illogical conversation that should be different, IMHO.

It's a minor bug with a variable getting set to the wrong default value: You'll get a few lines of wrong dialogue but no other consequences currently. The dev has acknowledged it upstream a ways so it'll likely be fixed in the next update.