As someone who has written a scene for it--way more work than you'd expect. What comes out as a paragraph of text may be pages and pages of text and code to generate.
This is exactly a problem, that kills the development. To actually go forward at least you would need a template or template builder for these Scenes. Created by the basic code structure. And then implemented as a part of the game.
Hmm this gives me fantastic ideas to actually make maybe something myself. Been thinking about it a lot...
Thanks!
Not sure what you mean by a template builder. I'm not sure what you're thinking of is really possible/the problem.
The issue comes up in that a graphical game tends to be much more on-rails than a text game. If you've got drawn art, then your character is wearing a skirt in this scene, because that's what the art shows. You don't have any sort of option.
So let's say you're making a scene where your character is on a bus, and a guy comes up to grope her. If you have a graphical game, what happens is going to be pretty defined and constrained. You don't get the same levels of character customization/definition.
If you're writing this for Newlife (or most text-based games), things get way more complicated. We can reduce the starting complexity by defining the parameters of the scene somewhat: Perhaps this will only involve a sleazy guy. Now we know all interactions with the guy are in the 'sleazy' category.
But you still end up with a ton of branching possibilities. Let's say you're doing nothing as the guy gropes you, and he wants to get more personal. Are you wearing pants, that he might try to slide a hand inside your waistband? But if you're wearing a skirt, he'd probably be trying to come up under that. Or maybe you're in a dress. Are you wearing a thong? That'd be something he could slip aside, but boyshorts are not. Maybe you have no underwear, and that might affect how he behaves. And so on, and so on, and so on.
A simple paragraph of text might need dozens of paragraphs of alternatives, all of which have to be generated by a human because they're creative work.
- Nov 20, 2018
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In this game you can shift even grannypanties aside, not to mention boyshorts. Sure there are some variation, but it's not nearly close to multiplying the necessary writing by x10, with one paragraph requiring "pages and pages".
From Shyness Cure, one brief paragraph turns into:
Code:
<SkateRiskyText>
#if($w.getSkill("FITNESS") > $w.getSkill("DANCE"))
#set($skating = $w.getSkill("FITNESS"))
#else
#set($skating = $w.getSkill("DANCE"))
#end
#if($scene.percent($skating))
#if($skating < 20)
Notwithstanding your serious lack of ability, you venture out onto the ice and away from the boards, trying to keep to your feet. Although it is very much touch and go at many points, you manage to keep your skates firmly on the ice and actually make some progress navigating in slow circles around the rink. When you finish your skate and head off the ice, $f.name has to admit that she's impressed that you managed it, given how much you were struggling. $w.skillIncrease("FITNESS",1)$f.addNpcLikingTiny()##
#elseif($skating < 50)
You venture out onto the ice, pushing yourself to try to keep up with the more experienced skaters. Although you're still learning, you manage to avoid taking any nasty spills or tumbles, and learn quite a bit as you go. You skate fairly quickly, and get a decent workout from it as you and $f.name circle around the rink. When you finish you're both smiling and a little tired. $f.addNpcLikingTiny()$f.addWLikingTiny()##
#elseif($w.getBottom().getLength() != "ANKLES" && ($w.hasTrait("AMBITIOUS") || $scene.percent(15)))
You're good enough that you have no problem putting on a bit of a show, skating at speed, backwards, doing a couple flips. Unfortunately, you put on too much of a show, $w.skillIncrease("FITNESS",1)##
#if($w.hasTrait("AMBITIOUS"))
out of an eagerness to show off. ##
#else
losing yourself a little in the moment. ##
#end
During a particularly vigorous twirl your $w.getBottom().getBasicDesc() rides up and flashes your ##
#if($w.getPantiesStatus() == "OFF")
bare pussy ##
#else
$w.getPanties().getBasicDesc() ##
#end
to those around you. You're certain that plenty of people saw more than you'd like. ##
#if($w.getPantiesStatus() == "OFF")
You immediately turn bright red, and skate off the ice. $f.name follows shortly thereafter, and the two of you leave the rink. ##
#else
Unfortunately, that also includes $f.name, who now knows you lied to her. She shoots you an angry look and skates off, leaving you alone on the ice as she storms off in a rage. $scene.addFlag("stormoff")$f.reduceNpcLikingSmall()##
#end
#elseif($w.getBottom().getLength() == "ANKLES")
You are more than skilled enough to put on a bit of a show on the ice, outpacing most of the others out there. Thankfully, your dress is long enough that it hides you from view, even during some of the more exuberant movements, although it does also limit your range of motion and what you can do on the ice. After your skate, you and $f.name turn in your skates and head home. $f.addNpcLikingTiny()$f.addWLikingTiny()$w.skillIncrease("FITNESS",1)##
#else
You are more than skilled enough to put on a bit of a show on the ice, though you have to limit what you do in order to avoid inadvertently flashing anyone. So, you have to restrain yourself from any overly enthusiastic spins or twirls or leaps, but you can still bob and weave around the other skaters. $f.name is not really able to keep up, even with you limiting yourself, ##
#if($f.getPersonality() == "SELFISH")
and looks more than a little annoyed at being upstaged. $f.reduceNpcLikingTiny()##
#else
but takes it in good stride. $f.addNpcLikingTiny()##
#end
Afterwards, you and $f.name turn in your skates and head home. ##
#end
#else
You push yourself, trying to skate closer to your limits, and ##
#if($skating < 40)
your inexperience ##
#else
bad luck ##
#end
catches up with you. You take a fall onto the ice, and it's not a gentle fall, either, but a full on out of control face plant that has you roughly hitting the rink surface. ##
#if($w.getBottom().getLength() == "ANKLES")
Thankfully, your $w.getBottom().getBasicDesc() is long enough that you remain covered, ##
#if($w.getPantiesStatus() == "OFF")
preventing anyone from getting a view of your bare pussy. ##
#else
preventing $f.name from spotting that you're still wearing your $w.getPanties().getBasicDesc(). ##
#end
#elseif($w.getBottom().getLength() == "KNEES")
You're sure that you end up flashing a few people as your $w.getBottom().getBasicDesc() flips up during your fall. $w.addArousalTiny()$w.changeStress(5)##
#if($w.hasTrait("OVERACTIVE_IMAGINATION"))
You can almost hear them mocking you, and imagine what they must be thinking. How many of them must think you're a slut, and how many of them might want to fuck you. $w.addArousalTiny()##
#end
#if($w.getPantiesStatus() == "OFF")
As you are without underwear, there's not a scrap of fabric hiding your pussy from view of anyone who might have caught your fall. Once you're actually on the ice, however, your $w.getBottom().getBasicDesc() again hides you from view, so it's only during the fall itself that you're on display. ##
#else
Unfortunately, one of the people who spots you is $f.name, and she immediately notices that you're still wearing your $w.getPanties().getBasicDesc(). She calls you a bitch for lying to her, and skates off the ice without helping you up, clearly angry. $f.reduceNpcLikingSmall()$scene.addFlag("stormoff")##
#end
#elseif($w.getBottom().getLength() == "THIGH")
Your $w.getBottom().getBasicDesc() is short enough that it provides a pretty good view to anyone who sees you fall or sees you after you've landed, at least, so long as they are coming up from behind you. You turn bright red, as there's obviously quite a few people who see $w.changeStress(10)$w.addArousalTiny()##
#if($w.getPantiesStatus() == "OFF")
your bare pussy. ##
#if($w.hasTrait("OVERACTIVE_IMAGINATION"))
You can almost hear them mocking you, and imagine what they must be thinking. How many of them must think you're a slut, and how many of them might want to fuck you. $w.addArousalTiny()##
#end
#else
your $w.getPanties().getBasicDesc(). Unfortunately, $f.name is one of them, and she calls you a bitch for lying to her and skates off the ice without helping you up, clearly angry. $f.reduceNpcLikingSmall()$scene.addFlag("stormoff")##
#end
#else
If you are seeing this, this is a bug. Report it so it can be deported. ##
#end
After your fall, you leave the ice, still smarting from the impact. ##
#end
</SkateRiskyText>- Nov 20, 2018
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Shyness Cure is a chain of events that is rather long, is probably about the same amount of content that got added to the main game in about a year and it's still just 34 kB of code. It's not insurmountable. Also the quoted amount of code is completely within reason for the text it represents.
- Feb 25, 2018
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I really hope the dev doesn't lurk here and lose motivation from the comments. I really like this game and how it's being built, and I'd hate to see it die or go into another long hiatus.
- May 12, 2018
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Well, if I asked my boss each time for one month to produce a couple of small (and sorry to say, simple) sections like the above, I'd be fired by now.
As people have mentioned before, it's reasonable to expect that it takes time to add content at the beginning. After that, content producers get more skilled, so it should take less time.
If it still takes too much time, someone should code a decent framework and/or implement an efficient workflow. If it still takes whole weeks to add a couple of pages of content after that, you probably ought to either look in the capabilities of your team, because they weren't meant for that kind of job, or just admit that the team lead is a cheat to begin with (and benefits from such delays).
As someone pointed out, it actually is a lot more work than you think. But I think a bigger problem is the creator decided to use JAVA. A programming language that is notorious for making you use more lines of code to do a relatively simple thing, compared to other languages. Thus you can make yourself do more work than you need to because you are using JAVA. I First played NewLife years ago when it was still 2.10(release iirc). After having my fun with the game one of the things I thought after looking at the creators plan was that will take awhile compared to the other "adult/Porn" games I was playing because they were a one person a team using JAVA.
IIRC they were scheduled to be done with the base game at the end of this year, but that doesn't seem plausible now. I personally think the creator bit off more than they can chew and also has lost steam for the game and doesn't really know what to do because they still have a sizable Patreon following. And thus can't really just ghost and leave like a lot of Adult game creators when they are burned out.
I do think this game had a chance because the idea had merits and seemed interesting and that is why I am watching to see what happens with Accidental Woman which has a very similar concept; that while it has its "extreme"/out there elements also has some get up and go in the development side even with the main creator having serious real life stuff going on.
- Sep 29, 2017
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Crazy how people defend the lack of content. Even if a paragraph takes a page of code, it doesn't take a month to do that. Modding for LifePlay, though built to be able to mod easily, can often look just like the example provided and I made like ten scenes in a few hours.
- Jul 24, 2018
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- Mar 9, 2018
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Yesterday a Female Agent update and today a Newlife one, got me excited twice and the facepalm effect was twice as brutal.
No matter what engine or excuses they find, they are either cheerfully milking their patrons, stupidly slow at coding or too stubborn to just realize that releasing bugfixes and minor addition bores everyone except themselves and those who are too blind to see it. If players would stop supporting such developers no matter what they do not do I am convinced that there would far less game versions still starting with a smelly 0 after so many years of 'work', really suspecting they're coding on wordpad.
No matter what engine or excuses they find, they are either cheerfully milking their patrons, stupidly slow at coding or too stubborn to just realize that releasing bugfixes and minor addition bores everyone except themselves and those who are too blind to see it. If players would stop supporting such developers no matter what they do not do I am convinced that there would far less game versions still starting with a smelly 0 after so many years of 'work', really suspecting they're coding on wordpad.
- May 12, 2018
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Man, JAVA is a newbie/beginners language. Besides, the section that was quoted had nothing more than a couple of elseif's, which is not surprising since it's a text game (with hardly any UI) we're talking about here.
Don't try to pretend that you need to be some kind of high level programmer to read the property of an object, because if so, my 13 years old nephew who is still learning the ropes of the trade could probably kick your sorry self-proclaimed forum expert ass. Low-level Java courses are being taught in coder's kindergarten nowadays.
Some lazy author has been milking gullible patrons for years now, and some dumbtwits keep falling for it. That is fine since it's their money they're flushing down the toilet. Not everyone has to adhere to such practices though (or acknowledge lousy excuses for it), especially since more talented game creators exist, producing way more complex games (some even with artwork and sound, imagine that!) at a more consistent pace, and deserve more support.
- Jul 24, 2018
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I never said I was an expert though but if there is really more talented developers why you bother coming here then?I literally just asked a fucking question because I never coded in java before and was curious if you could do the same on it with all the variables of the text game. Also if they are milking patrons is their problem this is literally a fucking piracy forum I guess if you go around talking shit about them maybe some people will feel less inclined to pledge to then, good luck though I already warned some people about lazy devs and they never change.
The problem isn't Java - while python is almost certainly better for this, Java isn't bad, and there are quite a few String based libraries you can use to make things more convenient.
No, the problem is the lack of modularity and the weak framework for adding new content. The time you save putting the thing together at the beginning is nice, but unless you're doing something small (and this is hardly small), you're going to end up spending more time in the long run in overhead adding new content.
If you have to do a task four times, there's no point in spending two weeks building a method to automate it.
If you have to do a task four thousand times, spending two weeks automating it is absolutely worth it.
No, the problem is the lack of modularity and the weak framework for adding new content. The time you save putting the thing together at the beginning is nice, but unless you're doing something small (and this is hardly small), you're going to end up spending more time in the long run in overhead adding new content.
If you have to do a task four times, there's no point in spending two weeks building a method to automate it.
If you have to do a task four thousand times, spending two weeks automating it is absolutely worth it.
- Mar 9, 2018
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One's ideal language may vary depending on the braincells and the dedication they are willing to put into their game. Java is not really that bad if you compare with what others can do, yet the only other text based java game i can think about is Lilith's Throne, Innoxia started working on it quite some time after the lazy ostrich and yet if you compare them the difference of efforts and results will strike you in the face.
As for coding alternatives I guess Newlife could have worked on twine/sugarcube, inform or even qsp which are all noob friendly enough if you only bother with text.
Not sure about him but I personally just feel betrayed by developers such as a ostrich or crunchy, when they offer a very attractive concept coupled with such enjoyable early releases, and yet they just end up adding makeup options and fancying their patreon pages for YEARS. Feels like that cool toy you wanted so badly for christmas as a child, you get trash instead so you just get mad at your parents for scamming you and tell all your friends santa does not exist so they all see the truth lal :/ (talk about traumas)
- Mar 16, 2019
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Seriously, though. And he has a community that's both creating and bug-testing content for him in his Discord. There's much larger text-only games that update more often and with more content than this. Games being done by a single person, and the ones with original artwork and movement tiles etc etc to go along with it are usually a two-person operation--still far from a pretty competent army of content creators. It may be difficult or whatever, but because of how others manage without an entire community submitting work for them to add on, I really can't accept the old "harder than it looks" excuse in this case.
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