VN Ren'Py No More Money [v4.2.0 S4 Ep.2 GE] [RoyalCandy]

[Alfius]

This is pretty disingenuous and frankly not all that true. When people talk about abandoned games they are 99% of the time speaking of western games made with patreon and made slowly over many years. If you remove Japanese games which alone make up half the overall completed games on the site and prolly another 10-15% of games that are once offs made for steam or short games you will easily see that the amount of abandoned games outnumber completed games roughly 65 to 35. Anyone who's been around here long enough will know this to be true.

You are simply wrong:
Top 30 games by views - Abandoned games = 0

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Top 30 best rated games - Abandoned games = 0

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I can extend this further
Top 130 games by views = 8 abandoned
Top 130 games by rating= 12 abandoned

I can also anecdotally note that of my games that I rated on F95 roughly 1 is abandoned for every 10 that's completed (And I don't play any Japanese games)

I also have an abandoned and completed folder (Granted both of them need some work). And that correlates to my figures.

I am very picky before I start a game. A game must be more the 6 months old, and it must be rated at least 3 stars (I actually use 4, but I know that the ratings are skewed according to Tags and genres, so I take that into account)

So my conclusion is that most abandoned games are new developers that finds out that a lot of work and time to write an AVN and then quits. You very seldom get an established developer that abandons his game, and in a lot of instances they try a new genre/story/idea/fetish and finds that it's not popular and then abandons that game and starts of a new game.

I can even give you a challenge. Find me an abandoned game with that is older than 6 months (From dev start to date of abandonment) and I will find you 10 that that's completed.

This whole high abandon rate is a myth. It's just so depressing when a game you love and spent hours on playing gets abandoned, that you instantly forget about all the other good games out there. I too know the bitter disappointment of abandoned games and it sucks.

 

[Niuul]

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Hey everyone,

I've been putting off writing this post for a while, but after seeing all your messages, I felt like it was time to share what's been going on. As you know, I've always tried to be upfront with you, but given what I do for a living, I've kept my personal life separate from this space. However, to explain where I'm at now, I'm going to have to open up a bit more than usual.

When I started this page back in 2018, I was a single guy who never imagined having a serious relationship or a family. But a lot has changed since then—I started a family and now have two kids, who are honestly the light of my life. But they're also the reason I've stepped away.

For a while now, I've been struggling with a kind of depression. I couldn't look my children in the eye knowing what my games promote. I felt ashamed, even disgusted with myself. What I thought was my “dream job” had turned into something I hated. That's why I decided to quit.

In the past few months, I've been trying to pivot to making SFW games. But since I've been doing this for so long, my mind kept going back to ideas that were... well, sexual. That's what I've always been good at. I thought I could finish No More Money, start something new, and maybe ask you guys how you'd feel about removing a certain taboo element that shows up in all my games. But honestly, I can't do it anymore.

I can't continue with No More Money. It's been breaking me to keep working on it, and I just can't do it anymore. I know you guys enjoy these games, and there's nothing wrong with that, but for me, it's personal. I'm not really a writer. I draw inspiration from real people in my life. Most of the characters you love from No More Secrets and No More Money were inspired by ex-girlfriends, friends, people I know, so it's hard for me to separate those feelings when I'm writing. I didn't value family before, so making taboo games was easy before, but I can't do that anymore.

So, I need to know where you all stand. I know walking away from another game is going to hurt my reputation, and I'm ready to face the consequences of that. But if I were to start No More Homework without the “household” taboo, would you still be interested in the game? I really need to know what kind of adult visual novels you're into now and how you feel about this shift.

I've included a few possible answers. Based on your responses, I'll decide what I'll do in the future.

Thanks for understanding and I apologize for everything.

Fantasy =/= reality.

Gotta be able to separate the two if you want to make any kind of AVN that isn't the most vanilla of vanilla out there. But I guess if it makes you not even be able to look yourself in the mirror then the dev should just pack it in to be honest and keep their steady 9-5 job. Live that family life.

 

[zeromike]

It's hard to put faith in him going forward, he showed an inability to separate personal life and work and poor work ethic (not the worst, the ones that go radio silent and the ones that try to fool their patrons while into keep paying while doing nothing are worst, but still bad work ethic to leave things unfinished).
He's gonna try and restart his business going in a slightly different direction, but who knows when he's gonna have his next "come to Jesus" moment about the work that he does?

Personally I think the whole crisis of conscience thing is an excuse. RC isn't exactly a great writer and his scenarios started getting silly. Public sex in the alley with Triss was pretty dumb for instance. There are a lot of women to manage an ending for too. What combinations are possible? Harem, solo endings, good ending, bad endings...Seems like a pretty large mess especially with Katrina's crime boss thing. What do you do for players who are sleeping with random combos or Katrina and Sheila or whomever. Seems like it is far easier to take the money you already made and save yourself the headache. I thought the game was pretty good but I'm not surprised it got abandoned.

 

[JakReaver]

I can extend this further
Top 130 games by views = 8 abandoned
Top 130 games by rating= 12 abandoned

I can also anecdotally note that of my games that I rated on F95 roughly 1 is abandoned for every 10 that's completed (And I don't play any Japanese games)

That's not how math works. You can't look at the top games and extrapolate an overall percentage of abandoned games based on that.

And anecdotally, my "Watched" list is about 50% abandoned games.

 

[LSC82]

Personally I think the whole crisis of conscience thing is an excuse. RC isn't exactly a great writer and his scenarios started getting silly. Public sex in the alley with Triss was pretty dumb for instance. There are a lot of women to manage an ending for too. What combinations are possible? Harem, solo endings, good ending, bad endings...Seems like a pretty large mess especially with Katrina's crime boss thing. What do you do for players who are sleeping with random combos or Katrina and Sheila or whomever. Seems like it is far easier to take the money you already made and save yourself the headache. I thought the game was pretty good but I'm not surprised it got abandoned.

Maybe he overextended himself with so many girls, and that criminal plot.
And also the fucking dad that no one even remembers, at some point that guy was gonna figure out that his son is banging his wife right? Maybe his wife and his daughter... he oughta have some reaction to being cucked by his own son...
The criminal thing is also weird given that might be some players out there that want a happy ending with Katrina rather than see her get her karma commeupance.

RC sure set himself up him a lot of work that would be a lot of trouble to narrow down.
I'd say that character work can be strong in this VN, i love Triss, i love Denise, Bea and Charlote... since that what matters most to me, i really liked it.
Things outside of these 4 however felt like wasting my time.
Whenever i heard that an update would focus on the other girls it shot my excitement all the way down.

Triss always had a wild side despite being a virgin, but doing it outside in broad daylight may have been too much for the second time she's having sex.

However i still believe there's some degree of truth in what he said, that he doesn't want to include Incest anymore.

 

[Alfius]

That's not how math works. You can't look at the top games and extrapolate an overall percentage of abandoned games based on that.

And anecdotally, my "Watched" list is about 50% abandoned games.

Contrary to you I did provide at least some evidence.

I also provided the % of the total number of games
50% complete
25% abandoned
25% in progress

Other people are claiming, WITHOUT EVIDENCE (OMG I hate this new media phrase), that most games gets abandoned.
There is not a shred of evidence of this. Unless of course you can provide me with some.

My method might not be perfect, but at least it is based on solid data.
90% of top rated games (Minority Japanese games) are not abandoned.
75% of all games are not abandoned.

These are facts.

You must be a magician to conclude that most games are abandoned (Or even 50% of games gets abandoned)
There is 0 evidence to back that up. Unless of course you can provide me with it.

In terms of your 50%. You seem to be really bad at picking new games to play. I would suggest waiting 6 months before starting a game. Time in development is the single biggest determining factor in my view to reduce the chance of abandonment.

==================================================================

To be totally Transparent, I did some research for you (As a counterpoint to my own research)
If we exclude the Japanese games The abandoned figure does rise significantly

In progress: 175 pages
Completed: 182 pages
Abandoned: 193 pages

So the % of abandoned games move from 25% to 35%
(And the ratio between completed to abandoned to 50/50)

However: I would still argue that a big majority of the abandoned games have been in development less then 6 months. Unfortunately, there is not a way that I can see to get this data to prove this, short off going through all of them 1 by 1.

 

[JakReaver]

Contrary to you I did provide at least some evidence.

I also provided the % of the total number of games
50% complete
25% abandoned
25% in progress

Correct. But you were also replying to someone who said...

This is pretty disingenuous and frankly not all that true. When people talk about abandoned games they are 99% of the time speaking of western games made with patreon and made slowly over many years. If you remove Japanese games which alone make up half the overall completed games on the site and prolly another 10-15% of games that are once offs made for steam or short games you will easily see that the amount of abandoned games outnumber completed games roughly 65 to 35. Anyone who's been around here long enough will know this to be true.

Now, I'm not agreeing with his numbers but I will say filtering for patreon supported, western devs, etc, will most likely raise the abandoned percentage and looking at the top rated games for your counter argument numbers is not only imperfect, but completely wrong.

You must be a magician to conclude that most games are abandoned (Or even 50% of games gets abandoned)
There is 0 evidence to back that up. Unless of course you can provide me with it.

I never claimed 50% of games are abandoned. I was just being an asshole.

In terms of your 50%. You seem to be really bad at picking new games to play.

Correct, but waiting 6 months wouldn't have helped here. NOW the really interesting thing, that I am going to throw out without evidence, is that incest seems to be a really popular tag for some of the top rated games (here and on patreon). I think if you filter for incest games you would find an even higher percentage of abandoned games because people think it is easy money, they start making a game, try to fund it through patreon, and eventually abandon it because they bit off more than they can chew. This would also explain why so many people here think that games get abandoned so often. Everyone, developers and coomers, are chasing the tag.

 

[DeadpoolandWolverine]

Why can.t thy finish off the game i guess not

 

[MrD812]

Maybe he overextended himself with so many girls, and that criminal plot.
And also the fucking dad that no one even remembers, at some point that guy was gonna figure out that his son is banging his wife right? Maybe his wife and his daughter... he oughta have some reaction to being cucked by his own son...
The criminal thing is also weird given that might be some players out there that want a happy ending with Katrina rather than see her get her karma commeupance.

RC sure set himself up him a lot of work that would be a lot of trouble to narrow down.
I'd say that character work can be strong in this VN, i love Triss, i love Denise, Bea and Charlote... since that what matters most to me, i really liked it.
Things outside of these 4 however felt like wasting my time.
Whenever i heard that an update would focus on the other girls it shot my excitement all the way down.

Triss always had a wild side despite being a virgin, but doing it outside in broad daylight may have been too much for the second time she's having sex.

However i still believe there's some degree of truth in what he said, that he doesn't want to include Incest anymore.

Several of us even here, held who knows how many conversations with RC on the directions taken with this title.
Choice creating the product(s) expressing to those compensating, intent to provide completion in good faith, per se'.
Going back on his word's is Not going to put him in a trustworthy lite, when all's said and done.

There are some whom won't be as forging, his inability keeping... let's say: "hobbies, work'ethnics and family separated".
Owning up to things, actual honesty with one self and others paying a person out of their pocket come in to play.
'karma's commeupance' may return unfavorably.

With any future endeavours.

 

[JakReaver]

To be totally Transparent, I did some research for you (As a counterpoint to my own research)
If we exclude the Japanese games The abandoned figure does rise significantly

In progress: 175 pages
Completed: 182 pages
Abandoned: 193 pages

So the % of abandoned games move from 25% to 35%
(And the ratio between completed to abandoned to 50/50)

However: I would still argue that a big majority of the abandoned games have been in development less then 6 months. Unfortunately, there is not a way that I can see to get this data to prove this, short off going through all of them 1 by 1.

OH. You edited it before I made the post. Should've refreshed the page before sending it. And yes, I think you could probably remove games with a development time of less than 6 months to lower the abandoned percentage quite substantially.

EDIT: Wait a minute.... I didn't need data to prove my original point. I just pointed out a problem with the math not the numbers.

 

[Justaphase]

However i still believe there's some degree of truth in what he said, that he doesn't want to include Incest anymore.

All he had to do was make them "step" related. So his dad is his biological father but got with Charlotte later who already had Triss. It was the dev who decided to make them all bio related and do the whole Charlotte remembering the MC as a baby, before sucking his dick thing. I could have done without that personally. Make Triss his step-sister and Charlotte the neglected step-mom, simple.

 

[zeromike]

All he had to do was make them "step" related. So his dad is his biological father but got with Charlotte later who already had Triss. It was the dev who decided to make them all bio related and do the whole Charlotte remembering the MC as a baby, before sucking his dick thing. I could have done without that personally. Make Triss his step-sister and Charlotte the neglected step-mom, simple.

He could just have the Dad come home early while the Mc and Charlotte are doing ridiculous things in the hot tub. It's as simple as "I knew we shouldn't have adopted you!" -problem solved. Dad moves out, the MC learns the truth and Charlotte has to comfort him. This shit writes itself unless you're a game dev apparently.

 

[Niuul]

He could just have the Dad come home early while the Mc and Charlotte are doing ridiculous things in the hot tub. It's as simple as "I knew we shouldn't have adopted you!" -problem solved. Dad moves out, the MC learns the truth and Charlotte has to comfort him. This shit writes itself unless you're a game dev apparently.

that would make it too hard to refute finishing the game though.

 

[MrD812]

He could just have the Dad come home early while the Mc and Charlotte are doing ridiculous things in the hot tub. It's as simple as "I knew we shouldn't have adopted you!" -problem solved. Dad moves out, the MC learns the truth and Charlotte has to comfort him. This shit writes itself unless you're a game dev apparently.

You as well as Justaphase, LSC82 and several more have sound reason.. and yeah, simple fix.
RC was warned of not just this, countless times with unnecessary content to plot twists and so on.
As stated who knows how many times in regards to 'No More Secrets' with reference.

More drama, more characters and so on... and so forth.

 

[Alfius]

OH. You edited it before I made the post. Should've refreshed the page before sending it. And yes, I think you could probably remove games with a development time of less than 6 months to lower the abandoned percentage quite substantially.

EDIT: Wait a minute.... I didn't need data to prove my original point. I just pointed out a problem with the math not the numbers.

Off topic, but 50% is still pretty bad.
If you are playing Western VNs only. In your total watchlist, the abandoned % should about 35%

 

[JakReaver]

Off topic, but 50% is still pretty bad.
If you are playing Western VNs only. In your total watchlist, the abandoned % should about 35%

It's not, I was being an asshole. I just checked and it is closer to 20%. I'm doing better than the average!

 

[Alfius]

NOW the really interesting thing, that I am going to throw out without evidence, is that incest seems to be a really popular tag for some of the top rated games (here and on patreon). I think if you filter for incest games you would find an even higher percentage of abandoned games because people think it is easy money, they start making a game, try to fund it through patreon, and eventually abandon it because they bit off more than they can chew. This would also explain why so many people here think that games get abandoned so often. Everyone, developers and coomers, are chasing the tag.

Just confirmed your suspicion.
Incest (non-Japanese)
Abandoned = 37 pages
Completed = 19 pages
In Progress = 28 pages

 

[MrBaddieBear]

Wow, so we really got absolutely cucked and stolen one of the hottest slow burn sis arcs because the dev turned into a moralfag? Sad to see, if he isn't just covering his base with that lame excuse.

 

[VoidlessBat]

abandoned another game because incest is wrong all of a sudden, because they can't separate fiction from reality, and yet they still want to make porn games??? Maybe you should quite making games all together. Anyone who believes this tripe is a sheep, what total and utter bullshit. Thank you, fuck you, bye.

 

[Ruykiru]

Wow, so we really got absolutely cucked and stolen one of the hottest slow burn sis arcs because the dev turned into a moralfag? Sad to see, if he isn't just covering his base with that lame excuse.

Sad to see another one go, but this is what happens when you get burn out because you milked subscribers for years instead of finishing your project. No More Money? Soon no more patreons, I guess. Nobody likes being lied to.

Just confirmed your suspicion.
Incest (non-Japanese)
Abandoned = 37 pages
Completed = 19 pages
In Progress = 28 pages

I will offer some advice. Have a clear vision and a plan. That's the most important thing from the beginning. Just chasing trends without the passion ends up in an abandoned project. If you're gonna make an incest story and want to explore the taboo, don't make silly patches that only change names because you want to ride the patreon money. Make it the default, use substar or other platforms, interested people will flock in anyway. If you have burn out, pause for a while. Communicate early to your subs and tell the truth. Don't milk. You don't need 5 years to make a slow burn story if you focus on what's important and have a plan. Also please, fiction is not reality. You can be a perfectly functioning adult, but a depraved incest loving pervert in your room. It's all in your head, don't let that consume you.

I say all that in good faith as a fellow incest dev to anyone reading, to keep in mind if you ever wanna create something that is more than just a money printing machine.