VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[dav121]

Coming back to this thread today after being away for a couple of weeks, and things are just

View attachment 1942564

You forgot the most important element.... the troll

 

[monk_56]

My two cents are the following. If you want to criticise Eva for the development of ORS, you should criticise her for the decisions she has made regarding the scope of the game - not for milking her patrons, or for purposefully slowing down the release of new chapters.

While the game certainly takes much longer to develop, it is not like the updates don't come with any additional content, that corresponds to the additional time taken. Generally, the average chapter of ORS contains more scenes and more images than the average episode of GGGB, so the additional development is clearly used to pack more into each update. Therefore, I don't think that you can say that she is milking her patrons, as that would mean the updates are constantly being delayed without any output to show for it.

Instead, it is abundantly clear to me that the reason why this game takes so long to develop nowadays, is because she has taken on twice the amount of work. Assuming that you want to keep the content per MC roughly the same as in GGGB, adding an additional MC immediately implies that you would need to double the work you do, even if you wouldn't intertwine their stories at all. However, their stories are intertwined, which means that you must now consider not only how each MC relates to their own closest group of characters, but also how each MC relates to the other MC's closest group of characters. Naturally, this makes the game increasingly complicated to develop, with longer times between updates as a consequence.

Both of these are caused by Eva herself, though, which makes me less sympathetic to her development struggles, and less accepting of the increased development time. Literally anyone could have predicated that this was going to happen when she announced that the game was going to have to MCs, which makes you wonder how Eva decided to move forward with that idea. Likely, all of the problems could have been solved by just keeping the scope at a reasonable level, something that Eva is solely responsible for. For this, I think you have every right to criticise her, and express dissatisfaction at how long the game is taking to develop.

Further, the development tendencies aren't great either. Looking back, the game was actually released relatively frequently for the first five (or so) chapters, after which it has slowed down tremendously. It feels as if every status update contains some comment about how the week wasn't as productive as she would have liked, or how she is struggling with the writing. Clearly, this is a worrying trend, because it suggest that the development is unlikely to speed up, and that, if anything, it will probably slow down, which is once again a consequence of the decisions that she has made regarding the cope of the game.

Personally, I also feel quite annoyed with how Eva seems to have completely accepted that this is now a game that takes five months to develop, and is making no effort to find ways to reduce this time. As long as this doesn't impact her patron numbers, she isn't really incentivized to do so either, which adds to the impression that this game is more likely to slow down in development, rather than speed up, and that Eva really hasn't managed this in the best way possible.

Overall, then, I think that you can criticise Eva for several things when it comes to the development of ORS. Milking, is not one of them. Mismanaging the scope and development, though, is something that I do think Eva has made herself guilty of. It is just unfortunate that it has come to this, because at the end of the day, we all just want as many updates as possible. And while five months can be a huge update for a 3D game, a 2D game does't really compare in this regard...

If you like all the routes waiting 5 months for the product you get seems acceptable. If you are mainly waiting on a couple routes and find many of them depressing instead of erotic the releases tend to be pretty underwhelming. As such, the value proposition of being a Eva Patreon is pretty heavily linked to kink diversity.

 

[mommysboiii]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

my boiii ian for sure stan the MAN would be even better

 

[CoalPhelps]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

Ian for sure. Lena's POV is still more about corruption and flings, while Ian's POV focuses on his creative struggles and career, as well as helping his friends, which itself is much more interesting.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

Ian for sure. Lena's POV is still more about corruption and flings, while Ian's POV focuses on his creative struggles and career, as well as helping his friends, which itself is much more interesting.

I'd say her corruption and fling-filled POV is intricately tied to her money and career struggles. Seymour alone is a prime example.

This is why I'm a bit reluctant to pair up Ian with Lena, her path has so many landmines lmao.

 

[grunwaldzki]

I'd say her corruption and fling-filled POV is intricately tied to her money and career struggles. Seymour alone is a prime example.

This is why I'm a bit reluctant to pair up Ian with Lena, her path has so many landmines lmao.

Samizuki Hydaiko killed Lena by running her over in his ford freestyle

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

Samizuki Hydaiko killed Lena by running her over in his ford freestyle

If I could get away with it, why not.

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

I really like Ian's path, but Lena's has so many temptations for her, just as Ian does. Not to get political, but why is it normal if Ian wants to chase all kinds of sexual opportunities, but if Lena does it's "corruption"? Both Ian and Lena face risks (hurt feelings and STDs, to name two) as they get more careless with sex, but otherwise there's nothing inherently wrong with Lena having and enjoying sex as much as Ian does. At any rate, Lena's path is more erotic to me.

 

[Canto Forte]

”course it is more erotic, hence the whole reason eva was created,
to be the twist in adam”s mind and keep him off them damned apples!

if Lena does

Lena has it easy, this is the story, me not made it up.
She goes nekkid, a number of guys just jump on her.
That is her story. That is her ”career”. So she has no redeaming qualities to work on.
Just drop even more of her clothes, on top of being treated like a sex object on the jobs she takes.

She has baggage with a number of pals who are easy shags if she just forgets how bad they are.
Ian has nobody, guys be joking of his ineptitude
and that barman keeps twisting the dagger with his hookups.

So play Ian and rinse him of bad habbits while trying to land him somebody, anybody.
Then go right into Lena and jump on any number of guys who just immagine her a meat sleeve for their ....

 

[bauman]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

Definitely Ian. I think his path is vastly superior to Lena's as of 0.9. Better plot/conflict, better character interactions, better scenes, etc. For the most part, I view Lena's side of the story as a rethread of GGGB, but GGGB did it way better because it had a superior main cast, and the game's simplistic story encourages multiple playthroughs on different paths. In ORS, starting from the beginning feels like a chore to me if you don't CTRL+skip through everything.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

Personally, I find Lena's path more interesting. A young girl who can go wild. Probably I was influenced by GGGB.
I like Lena's friends more than Ian's - most of his environment is annoying (Perry, Wade, Alison)
Lena faces much bigger challenges than Ian. She loses her job and money to live on, her parents are seriously ill, her ex-boyfriend is a stalker and a psychopath. Lena's antagonist is a very dangerous and powerful person. Seymour can really ruin her life. And I am very interested in how Lena's path will develop in the future.

Ian? He's doing well so far. And calmly. The conflict with Minerva is easily resolved, drama is possible in the future if your Ian fucks everything that moves, drama is likely due to cheating with Cindy ... and that's it.

Definitely Ian. I think his path is vastly superior to Lena's as of 0.9. Better plot/conflict, better character interactions, better scenes, etc. For the most part, I view Lena's side of the story as a rethread of GGGB, but GGGB did it way better because it had a superior main cast, and the game's simplistic story encourages multiple playthroughs on different paths. In ORS, starting from the beginning feels like a chore to me if you don't CTRL+skip through everything.

The problem with the corruption path in GGGB. I played and did not believe what was happening. Shy and well-mannered Ashley suddenly becomes a whore? Have you seen a lot of girls IRL go from cute girl with one sex partner to gangbang with black rappers in a few months? And being in a street gang. I did not see the motivation that would change Ashley so much. Didn't see realism. "I want something different in life" is not motivation. It's pretty fake and was only meant to jerk off for the gamer on the other side of the monitor. The game was good, but I wouldn't call it a story masterpiece.
. In the ORS, Lena faces financial challenges, low income, and a father with cancer. She is already a relaxed, open girl, with extensive experience in sex. Lena is not shy and has done wild things in her life. Lena likes modeling and is not shy about showing her body. We have a formed personality with character and motivation. And here corruption successfully enters the plot - the opportunity to earn big, easy money just by showing your body.
As well as an asshole sex partner she can have some fun with to get over her toxic relationship with Axel.
Instead of the long road of a good girl, in which Lena takes a detour to success, becoming a musician and dating Ian. But there is no black and white in ORS, you can easily go in a mixed way. The game has a lot of gray morality, unlike GGGB.

 

[bauman]

Personally, I find Lena's path more interesting. A young girl who can go wild. Probably I was influenced by GGGB.
I like Lena's friends more than Ian's - most of his environment is annoying (Perry, Wade, Alison)
Lena faces much bigger challenges than Ian. She loses her job and money to live on, her parents are seriously ill, her ex-boyfriend is a stalker and a psychopath. Lena's antagonist is a very dangerous and powerful person. Seymour can really ruin her life. And I am very interested in how Lena's path will develop in the future.

Ian? He's doing well so far. And calmly. The conflict with Minerva is easily resolved, drama is possible in the future if your Ian fucks everything that moves, drama is likely due to cheating with Cindy ... and that's it.


The problem with the corruption path in GGGB. I played and did not believe what was happening. Shy and well-mannered Ashley suddenly becomes a whore? Have you seen a lot of girls IRL go from cute girl with one sex partner to gangbang with black rappers in a few months? And being in a street gang. I did not see the motivation that would change Ashley so much. Didn't see realism. "I want something different in life" is not motivation. It's pretty fake and was only meant to jerk off for the gamer on the other side of the monitor. The game was good, but I wouldn't call it a story masterpiece.
. In the ORS, Lena faces financial challenges, low income, and a father with cancer. She is already a relaxed, open girl, with extensive experience in sex. Lena is not shy and has done wild things in her life. Lena likes modeling and is not shy about showing her body. We have a formed personality with character and motivation. And here corruption successfully enters the plot - the opportunity to earn big, easy money just by showing your body.
As well as an asshole sex partner she can have some fun with to get over her toxic relationship with Axel.
Instead of the long road of a good girl, in which Lena takes a detour to success, becoming a musician and dating Ian. But there is no black and white in ORS, you can easily go in a mixed way. The game has a lot of gray morality, unlike GGGB.

I suppose it depends on what you want from your smut. I like good stories, but I don't prioritize them because a good porn game needs more than a story to be 'good.' I think GGGB works because the story is good enough to be semi-believable and push the plot forward, and it's better than your average porn game, but it's not the whole picture. ORS has a more grounded in reality storyline compared to GGGB, but I feel it's too stuffed while, at the same time, it's not good enough for me to take it seriously either. That's why I think the story in GGGB, although comically exaggerated at times, works better in the porn game setting than the one in ORS (at least for now).

Also, I liked the 'sandbox' approach GGGB had to storytelling. Ashley wasn't a blank slate, but she was easily shaped to whatever version the player wanted, while Lena and Ian feel too much like pre-made characters, which somewhat limits what the developer (and the player) can do with them.

An example: a few updates back, EvaKiss added a scene in which Lena steals from the cash register at the coffee shop. Then she cut it out because people complained, and she realized that Lena is not the type of character who steals money from her lovely employers.

Have you seen a lot of girls IRL go from cute girl with one sex partner to gangbang with black rappers in a few months? And being in a street gang.

I knew a few in college, but they weren't fucking any rappers -- they were fucking their drug dealers. One of them ODd on fentanyl a couple of years back, and she was the preppy upper-middle-class A+ student type you find in most corruption stories.

 

[reyir]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

I will go with Lena, most of the game in this site is male protagonist, and female protagonist is kinda rare if we compared it to male protagonist, IMO female protagonist only became booming, i think when GGGB blow up, but before that, its really rare to see female protagonist game in this site.

If i rank all of female protagonist game in this site, GGGB will became my number 1, cuz it had a ton of content and the story itself is also great, and thats rare for female protagonist game, thats why if i need to choose between Ian or Lena, i will definitely choose Lena, Eva writing female protagonist game, its just too good for me

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

I suppose it depends on what you want from your smut. I like good stories, but I don't prioritize them because a good porn game needs more than a story to be 'good.' I think GGGB works because the story is good enough to be semi-believable and push the plot forward, and it's better than your average porn game, but it's not the whole picture. ORS has a more grounded in reality storyline compared to GGGB, but I feel it's too stuffed while, at the same time, it's not good enough for me to take it seriously either. That's why I think the story in GGGB, although comically exaggerated at times, works better in the porn game setting than the one in ORS (at least for now).

Also, I liked the 'sandbox' approach GGGB had to storytelling. Ashley wasn't a blank slate, but she was easily shaped to whatever version the player wanted, while Lena and Ian feel too much like pre-made characters, which somewhat limits what the developer (and the player) can do with them.

I see that we have different requirements for adult games. I put a good story first, but it shouldn't completely replace sex. There must be a lot of sex. I love games like Our Red String, BaDIK, Acting Lessons, Become a Rock Star. Story oriented. ORS has a very cool story with real characters and I love that. Such ABNs are like a breath of fresh air after the sterile and too politically correct AAA video games from large companies. Now there is really nothing to play.

An example: a few updates back, EvaKiss added a scene in which Lena steals from the cash register at the coffee shop. Then she cut it out because people complained, and she realized that Lena is not the type of character who steals money from her lovely employers.

YES. This is true. Eva's serious problem is that she listens to subscribers too much, reacts to the smallest whining and runs to fix it. This increases development time. It turns out that this is no longer her game, patrons.

I knew a few in college, but they weren't fucking any rappers -- they were fucking their drug dealers. One of them ODd on fentanyl a couple of years back, and she was the preppy upper-middle-class A+ student type you find in most corruption stories.

Yeah, college in your country is crazy. Probably a lot funny stuff, but crazy. I couldn't even find cannabis in 5 years of college. What is fentanyl no one can answer in our region.

 

[Gato21]

Ian for sure. Lena's POV is still more about corruption and flings, while Ian's POV focuses on his creative struggles and career, as well as helping his friends, which itself is much more interesting.

I feel like when Lena's music career path is more fleshed out, assuming you can avoid all the pitfalls along the way, it will mirror Ian's path, providing a more creative and fulfilling path for her self-actualization. Essentially a GGGB "good ending".

 

[BloodyMares]

Both Ian and Lena face risks (hurt feelings and STDs, to name two) as they get more careless with sex, but otherwise there's nothing inherently wrong with Lena having and enjoying sex as much as Ian does. At any rate, Lena's path is more erotic to me.

I'd say Lena's corruption is not the promiscuity but the more explicit options to sell her body and moral decay. Compromising her ideals and aspirations for money and instant sexual gratification. Seymour being an endgame of corruption of course. It's not corruption yet if Lena begrudgingly agrees to work for him if she feels like she has no choice. Corruption starts where her sexual fantasies and arousal get the better of her and she starts enjoying all this objectification and wanting Seymour's approval.

Ian gets corrupted mainly by Minerva and indirectly by Axel (triggering jealousy and competition for Lena and Cindy). Alison route also corrupts Ian since he starts treating her, his childhood friend, like some cheap slut, disrespecting her limits and manipulating her desire for him to make her consent to his sexual whims.

 

[BloodyMares]

An example: a few updates back, EvaKiss added a scene in which Lena steals from the cash register at the coffee shop. Then she cut it out because people complained, and she realized that Lena is not the type of character who steals money from her lovely employers.

It wasn't cut, the conditions have changed. She only steals the money if she's certain the cafe can't be helped and has a grudge on Ed for giving her 2-week notice. To trigger that, don't ask how you can help save the cafe. It's just, the plot with thief Lena was kinda left behind, Lena's efforts to help the cafe became a priority in writing because it provides most content (singing / life drawing).

 

[alex andrews]

Eva milk, kiss*

 

[alexferno]

If this would have had only 1 MC, which would you prefer? Ian or Lena?

Last year's poll results.

You must be registered to see the links

I enjoy both Lena and Ian - 729 votes
I prefer playing as Lena - 812 votes
I prefer playing as Ian - 145 votes

 

[boulimanus]

Eva milk, kiss*

Dunno if it's milking but either way it seems to be a trend for more and more games to take more and more time.
And personally... I like it.
I like it because it helps me forgetting and getting detached from it. And soon I won't be watching these threads weekly anymore and will use my time differently. Win-Win.