I really hope we could have:
- Ian + Jeremy + Lena
- Ian + Lena + Cindy
- Ian + Axel + Cindy
- Ian + Ivy + Jeremy + Lena
- Thread starter Eva Kiss
- Start date
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- May 2, 2017
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Yes, i cancel her patreon already
- Jul 22, 2022
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We'll see who cancels whom!
the game is too good to abandon it. I hope we get the update... eventually
- Oct 1, 2017
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I don't understand how you can talk about the most obvious Threesome in the game without mentioning the one we actually are getting, which is Ian+Allison+Jeremy.
- Dec 29, 2017
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Hm, i think this is where you and those others are wrong, because "milking" implies malicious intend, promising patreons and fans a product, which is or was never planned to be delivered. Whereas being caught in a writers block, or being lost on figuring out in which way to continue the story or writing content and dialogs which are getting scrapped, because they don't meet the quality the author tries to achieve, is not malicious but very often an undesirable part of any creative work. Double that if you are working in a small team, where every other contributor is prone to hit a roadblock (life happens, you know?) also.
Is there an obvious delay in ORS updates? Yes, i think so.
Does that entitle you and your fellows to call this specific Dev a milker? No, i strongly disagree.
It is my understanding, that EvaKiss is from Spain, and while this country may not pay the best wages in the world, they have better ones than alot of other countries and a rather good social security system.
So tell me, why should a Dev, who established a remarkably strong brand and reputation, who has a completed game, which still rates high on F95ZONE, under their belt and an ongoing project which is quite unison considered as one of the better games here, why should this Dev throw their achievements out of the window, for the paltry sum they may gain from 5 or 6 months of "milking" their supporters?
The potential loss is so much bigger than anything they can gain with this.
Granted, some patreons support creators, because they wanna have a bang for their buck, but others understand that they are supporting a project which very well can suffer major setbacks while in development. But the charm is you can of course suspend your patronage.
No, i believe nobody suffers more than EvaKiss in this situation, because you don't undertake a project of this scope, if you weren't serious about this business.
Being from Europe myself, i understand and strongly support the need for recreation and vacation, to fuel up your internal batteries and return fresh and perhaps with a new perspective to your work. There is nothing lazy about that.
So we have an author, who is maybe struggling at the moment or in the past few months to deliver new content, for whatever reasons. In this situation, revisiting and remastering the work done so far, is not as sketchy as you depict it. Perhaps not as desireable as new content, but the enhancement of old content will lead to an overall better game. In the end, it is not your project, but the Devs one, and they have to be satisfied with it.
In any creative process, any author, developer or creator -unless they are masochists or crazy- needs to have at least a little bit of fun with what they are doing, else that creative energy will dry up.
Accusing EvaKiss of basically fraud and declaring this game dead is not helpfull in regaining motivation and inspiration and fun.
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- Apr 25, 2020
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She's clearly not milking, she even stopped patreon sub for a month or 2. Though she may have bit more than she can chew with 2 MC. She really wanted to write a male MC but didn't want to lose the female MC base of her previous game, so here we are.
There are multiple reasons, weariness, depression, changes IRL... Also heard about icstor?
- Dec 29, 2017
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Yes, i was partly hinting on those in my post too. And of course it's not totally impossible, that they will never get back on track.
However my main reasoning was about intend, and i do believe, EvaKiss never intended not to finish this game.
And if above reasons were true, i think it's counterproductive to put too much pressure on the Dev. Because if i were in their (the Devs) shoes, i would probably go: "Ah, go to hell you fucking haters, what do you know about anything? I don't need this, go fuck yourself, i am out for good!" There is a thing called self-fullfilling prophecy.
I would rather see ORS completed in 3 or 4 years, than see it abandoned over something which may be in hindsight a minor hiccup.
I don't want to sound whiny or anything, and I respect Eva who is by far my favourite creator in this kind of game. But there's one bit of logic which I don't get here. People are defending the slow progress based on the increasingly complexity of the game.
When she started she had less resources, less experience and she delivered faster progress, doesn't matter how you do the math, more scenes and plot was developed in the beggining of this game per month.
Thing is, according to Graphteon, she is currently making 5 to 15k per month, that is while she has released no actual new content in 8+ months, 3? if you count the "remaster". I have read here she is spanish (not sure if that's true), but I am spanish too, and live in Madrid which is the most expensive city in the country, and here you can make a decent living with around 1k easily. To my understanding she could very easily spend that money in directing a small team that delivers faster and better, but prefers to keep working in a similar way and simply live a better life. Which again, is completely respectable and is kind of the way Patreon works.
I'm just posting this because I don't agree with the logic that now is understandable that she delivers slower, the fact is that now she has a lot more experience and a lot more resources potentially.
When she started she had less resources, less experience and she delivered faster progress, doesn't matter how you do the math, more scenes and plot was developed in the beggining of this game per month.
Thing is, according to Graphteon, she is currently making 5 to 15k per month, that is while she has released no actual new content in 8+ months, 3? if you count the "remaster". I have read here she is spanish (not sure if that's true), but I am spanish too, and live in Madrid which is the most expensive city in the country, and here you can make a decent living with around 1k easily. To my understanding she could very easily spend that money in directing a small team that delivers faster and better, but prefers to keep working in a similar way and simply live a better life. Which again, is completely respectable and is kind of the way Patreon works.
I'm just posting this because I don't agree with the logic that now is understandable that she delivers slower, the fact is that now she has a lot more experience and a lot more resources potentially.
- Apr 25, 2020
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Define "decent". Maybe if you live with your parents and don't pay rent, or you eat cheap meals every day and don't spend money on hobbies and don't go out.
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Anyway just because you hire someone doesn't mean the speed will double or increase significantly, that's not how it works.
I don't know about those estimations but I live in the center of the city, alone, paying rent and can go out for dinner or drinks here and there, have hobbies, can travel on vacation and buy all I need (with no luxury and having no car) with a bit less than 1k. Could share place with my girlfriend if needed to save more.
Anyway, I don't care, can make exactly the same point saying that you can make a good living with 2k, she's making far more than that.
- Oct 1, 2017
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Is that info supposed to disprove the guy you replied to because those numbers certainly do support his point. Anyway, more people working on the game would undoubtedly speed up the process.
One thing I learned in the last years it's that doesn't matter what a developer do with a game, it's always understandable for people that are in the "official" sites of that game. It's always good, there are no flaws, etc... (with exceptions, of course).
And if you have the idea to put a simple criticism, observation, etc...? Well, good luck with that. The most probable scenario is that you are gonna get ridiculed or they are gonna tell you that you don't have any idea, etc... It's more easy here, because if you have any criticism the most probable response is "but you are getting the game for free here, stop with your criticism, makes no sense".
And I see this scenario lots of times with different videogames, franchises, videogame consoles, etc... In the end I simply put my opinion and criticism if I want and if there is a problem with that with someone... Well, it's their problem. It's not an issue really because as I said before, this site gives lots of tools to avoid users, messages, etc.
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- Jul 5, 2022
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The things is, the amount of content per month has been relatively stable throughout the development of both of Evakiss’ games. I did a search and found this post from a while ago:
That doesn’t include Chapter 9 (which it’s true had a slower production pace, but also included Eva taking her first vacation in several years), or the remake (which isn’t possible to quantify in the same way). Still, the bottom line is the same: The often mentioned “truth” that the production pace has gradually gotten worse and worse, seems drastically exaggerated if we look at the actual numbers.
It’s not completely true either that she “prefers to keep working in a similar way” instead of spending money on getting help. In GGGB all the backgrounds were pretty amateurish looking photographs edited in Photoshop, with ORS she’s hired a professional studio to make them. She’s also hired a colourist for the art, and the jump in quality is significant on both fronts.
You naturally know more than me about how much is needed to make a living in Spain, but I did a quick search, and from what I could find the average monthly salary is about 2,700€, and 1,000€ is even below the minimum wage. I have no idea how much Eva has left after Patreon fees, paying the artist I mentioned and other expenses, but I think it’s more fair to compare to average wage than a sum you can survive on, but is significantly lower than what most others in her country earn in a month.
- Jul 3, 2021
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Good game, well worth the wait. Keep up the good work dev. Some of us are patient and appreciate your work.
honestly, i read all this massive amount of text and i still don't understand what the point is,
did i say the game is bad? No
Did I say I don't like it? No
Have I ever criticized or mocked conditions such as depression, stress, or writing block? no, on the contrary, I agree with that, there's nothing to deny about it, I myself didn't go ahead with my projects just because of the time and stress of doing something like that.
But does that change any of the facts I cited?
Eva haded the habit of post updates between 1 to 2 months? yea
Was the last real update for the story development in November last year? yea
Is it becoming commonplace for developers to take longer and longer to deliver updates to players compared to when they started the project? Definitely yes, as I said, I can name several.
I find it at least curious and funny how many people were offended by me using the term "milking", and I didn't really accuse Eva of doing that, I simply gave my opinion based on my experiences that this type of situation tends to be an increasing pattern.
did i say the game is bad? No
Did I say I don't like it? No
Have I ever criticized or mocked conditions such as depression, stress, or writing block? no, on the contrary, I agree with that, there's nothing to deny about it, I myself didn't go ahead with my projects just because of the time and stress of doing something like that.
But does that change any of the facts I cited?
Eva haded the habit of post updates between 1 to 2 months? yea
Was the last real update for the story development in November last year? yea
Is it becoming commonplace for developers to take longer and longer to deliver updates to players compared to when they started the project? Definitely yes, as I said, I can name several.
I find it at least curious and funny how many people were offended by me using the term "milking", and I didn't really accuse Eva of doing that, I simply gave my opinion based on my experiences that this type of situation tends to be an increasing pattern.
Hi all, new poster but long time follower to this thread and a big fan of ORS and GGGB.
In regards to the recent discussion, obviously there's a lot of differing views with the length of the current update release and I can understand that producing these updates involves lots of work and that like any project there can be periods where work slows down for different reasons. I think what would go a long way though in order to keep her fanbase happy during these long periods is to stick to her commitment of weekly status updates on the progress of the game. Even though it may just be pretty much saying the same thing each week and there may not be much work to show, it still feels like the game is moving forward and it gives fans something to look forward to each week in between updates and builds confidence. I know personally, I really look forward at the start of each week looking for the weekly status update on the game and makes me feel a part of the process so I feel disappointed when a couple of weeks at a time get skipped when really it only takes like no more than 30 minutes in a day to update her fanbase.
Anyway, that's my two cents. I have faith in EVA and undoubtedly ORS is in a league of its own. Good work to the Dev on all she has accomplished so far and I wish her all the best with the ambitious project she is undertaking.
In regards to the recent discussion, obviously there's a lot of differing views with the length of the current update release and I can understand that producing these updates involves lots of work and that like any project there can be periods where work slows down for different reasons. I think what would go a long way though in order to keep her fanbase happy during these long periods is to stick to her commitment of weekly status updates on the progress of the game. Even though it may just be pretty much saying the same thing each week and there may not be much work to show, it still feels like the game is moving forward and it gives fans something to look forward to each week in between updates and builds confidence. I know personally, I really look forward at the start of each week looking for the weekly status update on the game and makes me feel a part of the process so I feel disappointed when a couple of weeks at a time get skipped when really it only takes like no more than 30 minutes in a day to update her fanbase.
Anyway, that's my two cents. I have faith in EVA and undoubtedly ORS is in a league of its own. Good work to the Dev on all she has accomplished so far and I wish her all the best with the ambitious project she is undertaking.
honestly I may sound like a hater maybe, but really all I wanted was for games that I liked the art, the story or both, didn't suffer from delays, abandonment or organization problems.
yeah, I know that criticizing, especially here, won't change anything in the game's development (yes, I know, gentlemen of the obvious), but I also don't think my freedom of opinion should be stifled, just because we all agree that the game is amazing.
yeah, I know that criticizing, especially here, won't change anything in the game's development (yes, I know, gentlemen of the obvious), but I also don't think my freedom of opinion should be stifled, just because we all agree that the game is amazing.