VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[ekroniuk]

Um, no? First of all, there are quite good books on the movies. Read Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover. Secondly, the problem with game/movie novelizations and book/game adaptations is not the superiority of any one art form,

I disagree. It's not about a superiority of art form in general (because you are right they have different strengths), It is about superiority of writing. That's why writing from the book can easily be simplified to fit the form of the movie, but it's hard to do it the other way, because without audiovisual effects reader quickly realize that's it's plot is dumb/simple.

Take imdb top 10, six of these movies (Godfather I and II, Schindler's list, The Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Men and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) are based on the books, so it's a majority of them. Of course their level of fidelity differs, but still the creators had a base on which they were building. The fact that some book writers are also pretty successful as screenwriters also confirms in my eyes that writing for movies is just easier.

As for games - interactivity is indeed their strong side, but it often enforces simplification of the story, so writing is generally inferior to the movies

 

[juniorforlife17313]

8 months. Crap , the wait feels like waiting for the next game of thrones book guys. Here's hoping eva doesn't turn into a George RR Martin type obese goblin.

 

[Echbert]

Um, no? First of all, there are quite good books on the movies. Read Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover. Secondly, the problem with game/movie novelizations and book/game adaptations is not the superiority of any one art form, but that they require a slightly different perspective in creation and their key techniques are integral to the quality of the work. Well, and the fact that novelizations are often not written by professional writers.

Thus, books use imagination, and one of the reasons books are popular is to create images of characters and places in the reader's mind, which is often seen in the way fans are disappointed in the cast of actors, because they do not correspond to the sum of the images in the reader's mind. That is, personal perception is an integral part of a quality literary work and the attempted "forced" rendering in screen adaptations often spoils this effect.

The main element of cinema, accordingly, is the audiovisual component, including the nuances of camerawork, the selection of lighting to match the mood of the scene, etc. A quality novelization can retain some of these impressions through good literary language and the conveyance of mood through the descriptions and thoughts of the characters and the small details in their actions.

The most indispensable element of games is obviously their interactivity. The player is directly in the midst of all the events and his actions somehow have some effect on the world around him, which multiplies the immersion in the action on the screen. When creating a novelization/movie adaptation, the author is limited to choosing certain actions, certain paths, so often other characters are chosen as protagonists, which may simply not interest fans, because they do not have the same connection that is established with the protagonist of the game.

This is why i think that anytime they do a movie/TV show based on a game, they should do a story within the Universe. Game narratives for the most part are designed around interactivity, you eliminate that, and the narrative will be an inferior experience.

I disagree. It's not about a superiority of art form in general (because you are right they have different strengths), It is about superiority of writing. That's why writing from the book can easily be simplified to fit the form of the movie, but it's hard to do it the other way, because without audiovisual effects reader quickly realize that's it's plot is dumb/simple.

Take imdb top 10, six of these movies (Godfather I and II, Schindler's list, The Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Men and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) are based on the books, so it's a majority of them. Of course their level of fidelity differs, but still the creators had a base on which they were building. The fact that some book writers are also pretty successful as screenwriters also confirms in my eyes that writing for movies is just easier.

As for games - interactivity is indeed their strong side, but it often enforces simplification of the story, so writing is generally inferior to the movies

Your missing the point. Your rating movies by the same rubric you would with a book, but that doesn't work because each medium uses different elements to tell it's story. A script in a movie, is written with the fact that the Audio-Visual elements are going to be brought to life in mind, so when looking at the script itself you might think "this is mediocre" but when you watch the movie it feels like a totally different experience. In essence you can't look at a movie script in a vacuum, because that is only one element of the way they tell the story, you just missing too much to make a solid review.

 

[CoalPhelps]

This is why i think that anytime they do a movie/TV show based on a game, they should do a story within the Universe. Game narratives for the most part are designed around interactivity, you eliminate that, and the narrative will be an inferior experience.

Yeah, it would seem pretty simple to use the setting rather than the plot of another work, especially in the case of games, but for some reason many adaptation authors miss this in the pursuit of recognition.

Your missing the point. Your rating movies by the same rubric you would with a book, but that doesn't work because each medium uses different elements to tell it's story. A script in a movie, is written with the fact that the Audio-Visual elements are going to be brought to life in mind, so when looking at the script itself you might think "this is mediocre" but when you watch the movie it feels like a totally different experience. In essence you can't look at a movie script in a vacuum, because that is only one element of the way they tell the story, you just missing too much to make a solid review.

That sums up what I would answer, too.

 

[ekroniuk]

Your missing the point. Your rating movies by the same rubric you would with a book, but that doesn't work because each medium uses different elements to tell it's story. A script in a movie, is written with the fact that the Audio-Visual elements are going to be brought to life in mind, so when looking at the script itself you might think "this is mediocre" but when you watch the movie it feels like a totally different experience.

Yes, but that's why writing it is easier in my view. In movie you don't have to create long descriptions of the scene, because you are showing it, you don't have to describe characters faces in detail, because the viewers will see them you don't have to write out what exactly characters are thinking.

 

[Night Hacker]

Yes, but that's why writing it is easier in my view. In movie you don't have to create long descriptions of the scene, because you are showing it, you don't have to describe characters faces in detail, because the viewers will see them you don't have to write out what exactly characters are thinking.

You hit the nail on the head. I once read the book version of the Star Trek movie called "The Undiscovered Country". In the book, when Kirk fires the missile at the Klingon and the Klingon commander knew he was detected and would soon be destroyed, in the book it tells you what he was thinking at that moment, something you don't normally know. It's also why I prefer the original Blade Runner movie over the director's cut as it tells you what he is thinking with the additional narration, much like a book would, where as I found the newer versions without it very bland.

 

[Echbert]

Yes, but that's why writing it is easier in my view. In movie you don't have to create long descriptions of the scene, because you are showing it, you don't have to describe characters faces in detail, because the viewers will see them you don't have to write out what exactly characters are thinking.

Ehh, It seems like that on the surface, but screenwriting has a lot of factors to consider when creating a script. A Book gives the Author full autonomy, sure it's longer and more descriptive but they can craft every single element as they please, but screenwriting is a collaborative process, they have a lot of "limitations" to take into account, and it's a skill to craft something within that(though if i'm being real how descriptive each script is changes, some writers like to put in things like cinematography and such). There really just different, and take different skill sets. This is also why it's hard to rate a writer's skill based on the script alone, because it's specifically written that way to work in tandem with all the other elements.

You hit the nail on the head. I once read the book version of the Star Trek movie called "The Undiscovered Country". In the book, when Kirk fires the missile at the Klingon and the Klingon commander knew he was detected and would soon be destroyed, in the book it tells you what he was thinking at that moment, something you don't normally know. It's also why I prefer the original Blade Runner movie over the director's cut as it tells you what he is thinking with the additional narration, much like a book would, where as I found the newer versions without it very bland.

that's more of a personal preference though. Saying that, a good director will know how to convey the Character's state of mind in those moments without the need for "introspective thoughts". I'm watching the show "The Patriot" right now, and it does an amazing job of conveying each characters state of mind at all times.

 

[velsh123]

Передайте пожалуйста разработчику что в BJJ нету бросковых техник, там сразу переход в партер, а в игре представлено Judo, а это совсем не тоже самое что BJJ

 

[AhmetBoz]

Thanks

 

[Rudmi]

Передайте пожалуйста разработчику что в BJJ нету бросковых техник, там сразу переход в партер, а в игре представлено Judo, а это совсем не тоже самое что BJJ

ага, еще передайте что игру не выпускает уже год наверно. Тупо динамит.

yeah, also tell that the game has not been released for a year, probably. Stupid milkshak.

 

[Pointless123]

Really enjoy this game, I was a fan of GGGB and seeing something similar is good to see in amongst all the 3D render incest games that are popular.
Quick question - using the mod I see some choices affect my relationship with the men in the game, what does this change?

 

[crazydan]

8 months. Crap , the wait feels like waiting for the next game of thrones book guys. Here's hoping eva doesn't turn into a George RR Martin type goblin.

As others have said before, I think it was a mistake to make the story branch as much as it has. She's said in her progress updates that she already needs to write 10+ variations of each scene to accommodate all the possible iterations. Unless she forcefully collapses or isolates plot threads, that number will only go up.

If you compare to GGGB, that game had one protagonist with plot threads that were pretty self-contained. The dad, the step-dad, arthur, the gang, the popstar, jack, every thread was pretty much isolated with very limited cross play, and even then there was still a tremendous number of iterations to account for little details. This game has two protagonists with more plot threads that are very interconnected. Perry interacts with Emma, and his dad got screwed by the rich man, who is also potentially our boss and the sugardaddy of the other protag and employs the exboyfriend who is also making a move on Cindy who we also want to bang but is dating our friend....

Every thread ties to another somehow. It's incredibly ambitious and she's doing a fantastic job so far, but the story complexity is going to the moon. I'd expect the pace of updates to continue to slow into the future unless something changes.

 

[Night Hacker]

that's more of a personal preference though

Which is t he whole point of this discussion. And my personal preference is a good story in a visual novel, not just porn. Just like some people watch TV just for porn, and some like a good movie with a story. Both can have sexual situations, but it is more interesting to me if there's a reasonably believable story behind it (as believable as possible in these sorts of things anyhow).

Someone else who just likes porn without a story telling ME to go read a book or watch a movie is like me telling them to go watch porn movies. We all have difference preferences. There's porn on TV and books without a good story, just like there's porn in visual novels without a good story, and in all these forms of media, there's people who take the extra time to write a good story and maybe mix in sex where it makes more sense (or as much sense as fiction can make anyhow).

All are valid, and my preference for a good story is valid. Just because the majority may be just porn, doesn't mean they all have to be, and it doesn't mean I am wrong to like it because someone ELSE prefers just all porn and no story. It's a personal preference.

 

[I-No]

It's incredibly ambitious and she's doing a fantastic job so far, but the story complexity is going to the moon.

I totally agree. This complexity is surely one of the sources of Eva's difficulties keeping up her original update schedule or even her dedication for ORS. But Eva obviously wanted to create a complex game with lots of different stories and people. With the experience of developing and maintaining GGGB she also should have known better than anyone else about the challenges she would face creating such a complex game. But Eva is a very ambitious storyteller. And that's exactly what draws us to her games, I guess.

I trust her to handle those difficulties though. Maybe she has to reduce the number of complications with coming updates. So what? ORS is already a great game and will surpass most of the other crap out there even with less options and story arcs for the side characters.

I'd expect the pace of updates to continue to slow into the future unless something changes.

I am sure there will be changes. I guess, Eva herself isn't satisfied with the current update situation...

 

[CoalPhelps]

Передайте пожалуйста разработчику что в BJJ нету бросковых техник, там сразу переход в партер, а в игре представлено Judo, а это совсем не тоже самое что BJJ

I understand you perfectly, but I advise you to write in English on this site out of banal respect and solidarity with other users.

 

[CoalPhelps]

Ehh, It seems like that on the surface, but screenwriting has a lot of factors to consider when creating a script. A Book gives the Author full autonomy, sure it's longer and more descriptive but they can craft every single element as they please, but screenwriting is a collaborative process, they have a lot of "limitations" to take into account, and it's a skill to craft something within that(though if i'm being real how descriptive each script is changes, some writers like to put in things like cinematography and such). There really just different, and take different skill sets. This is also why it's hard to rate a writer's skill based on the script alone, because it's specifically written that way to work in tandem with all the other elements.

Yeah, more than that, not every writer could write a screenplay. If you can use the Gardener approach when writing a book, when you don't see the whole picture beforehand, when writing a screenplay you have to see and plan out its structure before you even write it, otherwise it adds too much work and screenwriters usually can't afford too many edits because of the limited time to create it.

 

[Echbert]

Which is t he whole point of this discussion. And my personal preference is a good story in a visual novel, not just porn. Just like some people watch TV just for porn, and some like a good movie with a story. Both can have sexual situations, but it is more interesting to me if there's a reasonably believable story behind it (as believable as possible in these sorts of things anyhow).

Someone else who just likes porn without a story telling ME to go read a book or watch a movie is like me telling them to go watch porn movies. We all have difference preferences. There's porn on TV and books without a good story, just like there's porn in visual novels without a good story, and in all these forms of media, there's people who take the extra time to write a good story and maybe mix in sex where it makes more sense (or as much sense as fiction can make anyhow).

All are valid, and my preference for a good story is valid. Just because the majority may be just porn, doesn't mean they all have to be, and it doesn't mean I am wrong to like it because someone ELSE prefers just all porn and no story. It's a personal preference.

? what are you on about? this discussion was about whether the writing in books is superior to other mediums. Your reply comes off as if your supporting that statement, hence why I said what your stating is personal preference. I personally have no issue with ppl preferring one thing or another, in fact that is one of the reasons why i hate Book-Elitism because it ignores that narratives can resonate with ppl in different formats due to their preferences. Don't know how you got a vibe that i don't like a good erotic story, or story in general, or that i think your preferences are invalid, knowhere in my commenst do i state that. Defintely feels like you mixed me up with somebody else.

 

[Dave@30121987]

If Emma is going to look like this I might have to cuck Perry

i second this, there should be a cuck route for Perry, his character looks made for it, ... if he enjoys it nothing like it.

 

[Satiro]

waiting.............................................

 

[JohnnyKiss]

i second this, there should be a cuck route for Perry, his character looks made for it, ... if he enjoys it nothing like it.

I see no other purpose for Perry other than for him to get cucked. He is the "Stan" equivalent on Ian's side of the story.