VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[mommysboiii]

Man, it would be great if Lena had an option to ridicule Ian if he got beaten up by Robert in the latest chapter. That would add much more depth to the Ian NTR path.

True if you want too play a more bata nerdy cheracter it is difficult/you dont relly have options) you have so much options too involve into a womanizer cheracter but if you want too cum too fast or be more of a nerd its pretty hard maybe we get the options with holly we will see.

 

[Cabot]

The thing is, the game already has lots of flashbacks, particularly with Lena. We see a scene from Ian's perspective, then we transition to Lena and experience a massive flashback to explain what she has been doing before Ian and Lena had their event. Chapter 1, Chapter 6 and Chapter 7 are most noticeable in that regard.

Yep, those are the Rashomon (really GREAT movie, btw) kind of flashbacks I offered as an example of the technique being masterfully used. We even sometimes watch the same scene from both perspectives in ORS as well.

 

[Mrsubtle]

Huh, Curious how about Parallel scenes or '' in the mean time'' you switch to different characters in general I know ORS does by switching between Ian an Lena. ( Whatever the proper terminology for this is)

And some other VN's do it as well, but not all as smoothly.
Suppose Presentation and execution is also an important factor.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

A quick example: a character is given a trait, let's say he lacks one arm.

- He explains to a fatso spider how he lost it in a battle with an enemy: Booooring, especially in a visual medium.

- We're shown in a third person flashback how he lost the arm: Well, at least we're watching something.

- We're shown in a first person flashback how he lost the arm BUT he lies (to the other character and/or the audience and even perhaps to himself) about who did it: Ohohohoh, you've me hooked there.

You can also achieve the "unreliable narrator" bit by exposition, ofc, but you'll still be missing the "show, don't tell" thing. You can pull it off in literature, but it's much harder to digest in a visual medium two characters just speaking (or one having a long William-freaking-Faulkner-style inner monologue, please kill me now).

Yeah, I agree with those points. For some of the minor background stuff I think the first alternative is sufficient, though – a few lines in the dialogue instead of a more thorough flashback. Or somewhere in between – like when they reminisce about their band, and we're shown the picture one of them discovered recently.

The thing is, the game already has lots of flashbacks, particularly with Lena. We see a scene from Ian's perspective, then we transition to Lena and experience a massive flashback to explain what she has been doing before Ian and Lena had their event. Chapter 1, Chapter 6 and Chapter 7 are most noticeable in that regard.

That's true, and it's easy to forget how complex that makes the structuring of the story. I actually hope this will be utilized even more as the story moves forward – that Ian's and Lena's experience of the same situations (and ours, as a consequence of that) will be even more affected by what they know and don't know, and what they notice in that particular situation. The life drawing event, where Ian noticed Lena looking at someone else in the crowd, but at first didn't have the context to understand what was going on, was a minor, but good example of that.

Yep, those are the Rashomon (really GREAT movie, btw) kind of flashbacks I offered as an example of the technique being masterfully used. We even sometimes watch the same scene from both perspectives in ORS as well.

That's Kurosawa, right? I'll might check it out!

 

[Deleted member 3477186]

is there cheating, cucking and girlfriend stealing in game?

 

[BlandChili]

Flashbacks can be done wrong or can be done right, even masterfully, as Rashomon or The man whot shot Liberty Valance show us. Just to throw two examples. They're a device, a technique, and can be as good as the author using them is.

In fact, as has been pointed out, Eva has already done one with the polaroids (not exactly a Harry Potter's pensieve, but still...) and it worked, didn't disrupt the narrative (more like pushed it: making Lena close the door for good to reminiscing Axel or opening it more than before), leaving those decisions to the player while explaining more the background of past Lena (before she was in player's control), and didn't feel -at least to me- clunky at all. Maybe we should trust she knows her stuff?

This might be a linguistic issue, as I didn't learn about the narrative structure of the flashback through writing from the anglophone world, but when I talk and read about the term "flashback" I think of something very specific. When I got my media training back then, the flashback was not a term used to refer to a general set of narrative devices but a very specific turn in the narrative structure.

Admittedly it's been a long time since I worked with this stuff so the terminology might have been accepted into a broader sense since then, but for my understanding a flashback is only a flashback in the true sense of the word: The current narrative stops and the perspective is shifted to a point in the past.

Lena holding a pair of polaroids and explaining the past to the player is a reference, not a flashback. A flashback is an interjected scene that disregards the natural flow of the narrative. Everything that happens in the scene with Lena and the polaroids happen from the same point of view and the same tense as the scenes that come before and after.

I also never said that Eva had never done flashbacks in the past, just that I in general, personally, have a dislike for when they happen.

If you'd like to criticise the way I understand flashbacks I encourage you to explain how you understand the term generally and its applicaitons.

 

[Cabot]

This might be a linguistic issue, as I didn't learn about the narrative structure of the flashback through writing from the anglophone world...

Oh, me neither, I'm not a native english speaker, so there very well could be some linguistic issue at play here. Let's see...

In spanish -my mother tongue- but I think also in other languages, when we want to avoid anglicisms like "flashback" and "flashforward" (and in fact also when studying this devices "scholarly") we refer to this kind of narrative resources as "analepsis" and "prolepsis", from greek. An analepsis can be as subtle, minimal and inconsequential as writing: "And today I am back here, to the city where I was born", and regarding the prolepsis...

Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendía was to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice.

That's the first sentence of Gabriel García Márquez "One hundred years of solitude" and one of the most famous examples of prolepsis in spanish in the last century or so (and quite often used when explaining the concept, as also is the begining of "Chronicle of a death foretold" that directly spoils -in modern terms- you the end of the book). Hardly a fully interjected scene, just a passing mention, but one that strongly resonates.

So I guess you could say the polaroid scene isn't a hard flashback in some sense or definition of the word, just Lena referencing or reminiscing past events, but I would argue it is in fact an analepsis (which, iirc, originally means "recovery", "retrospection"), one homodiegetic and completive to be more precise. It does in fact interrupt the narrative (and yes, there are changes in the verb tense during the scene), tells events from the past and connects different moments of the story.

If you'd like to criticise the way I understand flashbacks I encourage you to explain how you understand the term generally and its applicaitons.

I hope I've managed to do so without being utterly boring, as these things can get.

Nonetheless, and even if we don't consider that scene as a flashback I think that doesn't invalidate my main point: flashbacks aren't clunky in themselves, they've been used to much success in narrative before, they are as good as you can make them work, and simple exposition of past events is not inherently superior to them especially in a visual medium.

 

[BlandChili]

I hope I've managed to do so without being utterly boring, as these things can get.

Nonetheless, and even if we don't consider that scene as a flashback I think that doesn't invalidate my main point: flashbacks aren't clunky in themselves, they've been used to much success in narrative before, they are as good as you can make them work, and simple exposition of past events is not inherently superior to them especially in a visual medium.

You did and I didn't find it boring!

I guess where I see the seperation between analepsis and flashback is that a flashback is always an analepsis but an analepsis is not always a flashback.

I actually do disagree somewhat, at least if we talk about the stereotypical flashback that I had in mind. Maybe clunky isn't the right word, but I think flashbacks generally "halt" the ongoing narrative pace just by their nature. This isn't necessarily a bad thing always, mind you, where it goes from functional argument to my opinion is just that I tend to dislike when they occur specifically in games where we control the choices of a character.

 

[yiyoiyi]

is there cheating, cucking and girlfriend stealing in game?

Yes but not done to you, you are the one Stealing someone's gf, or cheating on others

 

[BloodyMares]

I actually do disagree somewhat, at least if we talk about the stereotypical flashback that I had in mind. Maybe clunky isn't the right word, but I think flashbacks generally "halt" the ongoing narrative pace just by their nature. This isn't necessarily a bad thing always, mind you, where it goes from functional argument to my opinion is just that I tend to dislike when they occur specifically in games where we control the choices of a character.

What are your thoughts about flashbacks as a reason for the player to define the character more? Like, say, if Lena's brother suddenly appears and we get to see a flashback of a moment that defines their relationship in the past (a conflict, his depart, etc). That way we might see what their relationship was like, get to see his personality, and define some outcome. Then, when the narrative turns to the present, you interact based on interactions in the flashback. That way there won't be a lot of exposition dialogue just so the player can learn something about him. I think Ivy and Lena could use this form of storytelling, too, because occasionally Ivy dumps a lot of exposition referencing the wild things they used to do.

 

[BlandChili]

What are your thoughts about flashbacks as a reason for the player to define the character more? Like, say, if Lena's brother suddenly appears and we get to see a flashback of a moment that defines their relationship in the past (a conflict, his depart, etc). That way we might see what their relationship was like, get to see his personality, and define some outcome. Then, when the narrative turns to the present, you interact based on interactions in the flashback. That way there won't be a lot of exposition dialogue just so the player can learn something about him. I think Ivy and Lena could use this form of storytelling, too, because occasionally Ivy dumps a lot of exposition referencing the wild things they used to do.

I think that it can serve the purpose that you propose well enough. It's certainly a tool to be considered, one I might even use myself despite my dislike for flashbacks. Sometimes you write a story in a way that's easy to comprehend even if you aren't a fan of that specific way to do it.
If Eva were to implement something like that now (in ch. 8 for example), without wanting to rewrite scenes from earlier chapters, that would of course be the most simple way to do it.

If I were to write the brother into the story and let the player decide how Lena feels about him I'd have done it during the first or second phone conversation with Lena's mom.

To pace it out I would probably do it in the second. In the first phone conversation I would introduce him as a character that exist the same way that's already in the game.
Then in a later conversation with Lena's mom I'd set a childhood precedent, for example "you used to get along so well" and then I'd let the player have a choice to define their current relationship in a negative or positive manner. For example the choices:

• "We still do, we just don't meet that often"

or

• "We were kids back then, things change"

Something to that effect.
From that basis I would write a four-branch story. One route where Lena and her brother are friends and remain so, one where they are friends and have a falling out, one where they aren't friends but form a connection through the story and one where they aren't friends and only grow to despise each other further.

I think that when it comes to games where we control the main character's personality in some ways, it's important to have a specific starting point that isn't breached. Of course, that's just my opinion and not to claim that it's wrong or right in any way.

 

[Dave1337]

Since I seem to be unable to find a full save myself, would anybody mind to share?
I have dl the gallery mod and just wanna fap.

Nevermind, ound out that the mod lets you browse everythingm you just have to click it.

 

[mhoyko]

Alex Coal reminds me Lena

 

[juicycarmen]

I really hope Stan and Ed get some scenes

 

[Gabriel Knight]

So i wanted to play this with self voicing but i can't seem to change the default language. I canged it in the Microsoft Speech settings but the game doesn't recognize i made changes. Is there any way to change the default language to another one?
Any help would be aprecciated.

 

[Leonardovisk]

Alex Coal reminds me Lena

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[maaarco2014]

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[mannice431]

So for you fine gentlemen here, who do you want to see in this next update?

I'm going to wish for Louise and (at the very least) Ivy, maybe a scene with Minerva too would be great.

 

[BlandChili]

So for you fine gentlemen here, who do you want to see in this next update?

I'm going to wish for Louise and (at the very least) Ivy, maybe a scene with Minerva too would be great.

I'm not a man but I hope you will effort to forgive me for intruding upon your question like this.

Lena/Holly. Is about dang time.

 

[doctor13]

I can see the Lena/Holly thing happening if she gets cold feet about going on the date with Mark and hangs out with Lena instead, so it becomes an either/or thing.