VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[qwertycoltan]

I am genuinely baffled that Seymour has such high wits and charisma stats. I always thought Evakiss was setting him up to just a poser who thinks he's an intellectual. turns out she was actually trying to make him sound smart. she really needs to improve her writting of him in the future if that's what she wants him to be because as of now he does not come across that way at all.

 

[WatsonJohn]

That is different from what you expressed previously. It's still Ashley's perspective, hearing Arthur recount the story. If pics/vid were used, it would also be from Ashley's imagination. Story still told by her POV.

Yes. That could be possible if done right in ORS. But at this point, it would, just like your Ashley example, have to be done through a story recounted to Ian or Lena by another character, where their imagination might take the place of pics or video. An invisible narrator dropping in from out of nowhere 1/3 of the way through the game for tea and a quick dirty story just wouldn't work.

BlandChili asked for a scene where other characters from GGGB were narrating an event that occurred.

When do those scenes happen? The only instances I remember dealing with material outside of Ashley's perspective is when people use their phones to show her videos of others without them being aware.

And like I said, I was hoping that Eva would deviate a little from the formula, not just having videos showing the scenes or people narrating the events that occurred but actually having perspective from those other characters. I have even given example where it can work in which the narration wouldn't feel random or out of place given that it is directly tied to the events prior of the scene.

Not really. There are scenes not involving the protagonist in GGGB that are shown through the narration of the other characters of said events. I'm sure this way of portrayal will also be used here. What I'm hoping is Eva to deviate a little bit with this formula on some major events, to show the events from the perspective of other characters. One way the author can do this is by having the protagonist be really worried of the current state of a particular individual and would be wondering what is happening to that individual right now. And, as if answering the protagonist, the game shows what is happening to that individual with the narrator maybe talking about the scene unfolding as well as talking about the protagonist and how this could affect them.

Even if Ashley was there to listen to Arthur, it was still Arthur's perspective that was shown given how the scene showed Arthur and Iris having sex, even having Iris's dialogue prop up to the scene. Because it would be very underwhelming if, for example, the AxelxCindy scenes would only be shown through videos. I guess it would suffice if Cindy narrates the events to Ian, similar to how Arthur narrated the events to Ashley, maybe having Cindy express how she fucked up and the like. It could also happen with Axel bragging about what happened. What is ideal, however, is if we get to see the events in real time and this allows for events in which the protagonists are not in the know but the players get to see them. This adds more dynamic to the characters and narration would not be constraint with just having other characters recounting the events (it would also fuel the cheating kink because the protagonists are not aware).

 

[dundun]

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

A little tidbit I noticed, the last 3 cards were posted at the same time, 10.00 PM CET. I guess there is a way on Patreon to upload a post in advance and publish it at a certain time.

 

[mannice431]

How many character cards are left by now? I'm assuming that the update is gonna come after they've all been released, so i'm guessing it must be soon.

 

[Baka!]

All these character cards are very good and interesting, but... Where is the card of the man who will inseminate Lena? Where are Ed's stats?!

 

[dundun]

How many character cards are left by now? I'm assuming that the update is gonna come after they've all been released, so i'm guessing it must be soon.

3
Well, it will come after that alright.
Sorry to burst your bubble there, mate, it won't come anytime soon.

All these character cards are very good and interesting, but... Where is the card of the man who will inseminate Lena? Where are Ed's stats?!

https://f95zone.to/threads/our-red-string-v0-8-final-evakiss.48813/post-6502582

 

[JustForPorn12]

I'm not a man at all, otherwise you're pretty close. I work in games design and want to publish writing of my own, I quite like CHYOA even though it's got way too many stories with no endings...
I've been into erotic content for a while and feel sad that much of the world is so stuck up about the human body and it's potential pleasures
The reason why I'm quite active here is because ORS is the best product on the market. (Also COVID shut-ins, plenty of time)

Worse part about CHYOA is that damn near every story completely lacks any branching paths at all, which kind of defeats the purpose of calling it choya.

 

[godoff95]

I guess Eva isn't sure about Stan?

 

[Moryaka26]

You must be registered to see the links

Agnes has only made a brief appearance in the story so far, and she's not directly involved with the main plot. And that's probably a good thing. This wicked woman is only trouble. Her zodiac sign is Sagittarius.

Maybe Agnes is Cindy's grandma

 

[godoff95]

Maybe Agnes is Cindy's grandma

I don't think so. Because grandma would had been the one introducing her to modelling.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

I am okay with good Jessica and even Agnes (sugar momma for Lena?). But i find really weird that a arrogant prick like Seymour has 10 of charisma. The guy literally can't spend one conversation without acting like having a superior intelect to people around him. High int. definitelly but i was expecting him to be low on charisma.

 

[fatpussy123]

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

I am okay with good Jessica and even Agnes (sugar momma for Lena?). But i find really weird that a arrogant prick like Seymour has 10 of charisma. The guy literally can't spend one conversation without acting like having a superior intelect to people around him. High int. definitelly but i was expecting him to be low on charisma.

My guess is that he is charismatic amongst his rich buddies and thats how he gets what he wants, but when hes with our characters he looks down on them.

 

[BlandChili]

An example would be if you decide to corrupt Iris with his dad, Arthur. During sex, he tells Ashley how he slowly made Iris "open up" with him and how they are now fucking without constraints. And the scene didn't feel out of place because it connects with the current event of the game.
That's the thing, it's not a random shift in perspective because the change of perspective ties well with the narrative just like my example of "thinking about the individual" or Arthur narrating how he corrupted Iris.

Alright, see I never played this specific route in GGGB but I get what you mean now. Like what dontcarewhateverno said I thought you meant that an external narrator was going to suddenly pop up and show us clips of what was happening "in the meanwhile far, far away" or something like that.

I don't think retellings like your example would be completely out of place though, but they probably work best when it feels prompted. With Arthur and Iris it is for example an update on events the player gets to decide to set in motion or not.
Axel/Cindy can probably happen "accidentally" if you lust for her as Ian but decide to be a friend to Wade after all at the party and chase after him. I'd prefer not to get an unprompted scene showcase between Axel/Cindy the next time Axel and Ian talks, unless you were to show curiosity towards it, like with the Ian voyeur route with Jeremy/Alison. I don't think such a thing is unviable or anything.

It wouldn't break the POV structure of the narrative IMO, at least if it just happened in select cases where the player has agency to trigger it or not.

 

[Zedire]

The reason why Seymour probably comes across as being 'fake smart' or not as intelligent as he's supposed to be is because of how Eva seems to perceive his intelligence as '10', and the fact that he's supposed to understand philosophy. The problem is, if you're really going to write a character who is that intelligent and philosophical to boot, you can't just have a passing knowledge of philosophy and think it will suffice. That's like that time when Paris Hilton went to jail for one night, 'read' the bible for the first time because it happened to be the only thing in her cell, then came out the next morning saying she'd 'read it all' and was an enlightened Christian. Understanding philosophy isn't the work of a single book - a single book is a brief introduction. People who think they understand philosophy at that stage and decide they want to talk about it generally come out sounding more like a pretentious hipster rather then wise and enlightened.

I mean, considering Seymour is meant to be a fan of philosophy, and considering his age of 50-something, I think it's reasonable to assume he'll have read and reflected and conversed with other lovers of philosophy over a lot of material over the years. Probably using it for his own ends, and shaping his personality and beliefs with it bit by bit as he went. To write someone who understands philosophy as well as Seymour is supposedly meant to would take a lot of study and inner-reflection by the writer. It takes time to truly grasp.

The other mistake is giving Seymour a 10 in charisma. Yes, it may seem like 'just a character card' and largely irrelevant, but it's a bit more then that - it's an indication of how Eva envisions the character, regardless of what we as readers/players have experienced so far. Let me put it this way: Leonardo Da Vinci is considered by many to be the greatest mind that ever lived (even to this day), and even LDV wouldn't be a 10, because 10 is supposed to be the pinnacle of perfection, and he was still learning when he died.

Even though we're still to see a fleshed-out Seymour, he wouldn't be a 10 in any skill. Well, maybe in lust if he's willing to take it as good as he gives - literally - and nothing is off the table. Like, we're talking kinkiest man that ever lived here. But the fact is, nobody is a 10.

There's a sort of unwritten rule in the world of writing: don't write a character that is [supposed to be] more intelligent then you are. Why? because the character will never feel truly authentic. The fact is, we can't comfortably conceive/write of intelligence above what we possess ourselves as the writer - anyone with more intelligence would read it and instantly see the flaws and write it off, and we as the writer would lack the context of greater intelligence to see those flaws ourselves beforehand (unless someone points it out and we're not adverse to constructive criticism and extensive re-writes).

And yes, in the world of writing, some love to challenge rules; people still write character who are more intelligent then they are, and it's not impossible to do a decent job of it, but the ones who are believable are those that written indirectly. Hinting at intelligence -- observing the effects of the character's intelligence, or hearing it from a third party, for example -- rather then spelling it out directly through the intelligent character's words and actions. Unfortunately that's pretty much impossible to do here considering Seymour is a main character, and considering it's highly unlikely Eva would change the character even if she knew people weren't sold on it. The 'fake smart' thing is something people will just have to try to overlook.

I just live in hope that Eva will flesh out Seymour as she goes, and go a way to making him feel more authentic in whatever direction she plans to take him.

 

[BloodyMares]

I don't dislike random perspective change as a concept but do when they occur in a narrative that have no history of containing them previously. Playing as, and viewing events through, only Lena and Ian for half a game but then suddenly being shown a scene between Wade and Perry, with neither protag present, would IMO feel like a really clumsy shift.

Unless Emma's drug allows astral projection/omnipresense...

What is ideal, however, is if we get to see the events in real time and this allows for events in which the protagonists are not in the know but the players get to see them.

That's not ideal at all, the game simply is not designed this way. Each chapter starts with IAN or LENA in the Calendar, and their POV respectively. The player IS Ian/Lena, always. You are supposed to be fully synchronized with them, constantly. The narrative can't show something either Ian or Lena doesn't know about. Your knowledge of the story is limited to their POV (and they in return learn everything from you if they're on reality-altering drugs). We are, for all intents and purposes, watching/reading their MEMORIES. The narration has a clear diary-like style to it. We can see the scenes not featuring Ian or Lena if a) They imagined it, b) They had a dream about it, or c) They witnessed it.

Leonardo Da Vinci is considered by many to be the greatest mind that ever lived (even to this day), and even LDV wouldn't be a 10, because 10 is supposed to be the pinnacle of perfection, and he was still learning when he died

What if I told you that 10 is not a pinnacle by a longshot? Think about it. By Chapter 8, Ian or Lena can have 7/8 in Wits. If they level up with the same pace (+1 level each chapter), they'll get 10 Wits in Chapter 10. And the game is supposed to have around 20... If 10 is indeed the pinnacle, then it means the game is heavily unbalanced if you can master 1 stat completely by the mid-game. It would be easy to finish the game with 10/10/10/10 which kind of defeats the purpose of role-playing and focusing on different stats if you can have it all even without the cheats. But it wouldn't be much problem if the max level for a stat is 15/20.

 

[JoJoPool]

I guess Eva isn't sure about Stan?

she is saving the best for last, he is the secret final boss that you only get the honor to face if you completed some secret quest. Seymour is nothing, ALL HAIL STAN !!

 

[Zedire]

What if I told you that 10 is not a pinnacle by a longshot? Think about it. By Chapter 8, Ian or Lena can have 7/8 in Wits. If they level up with the same pace (+1 level each chapter), they'll get 10 Wits in Chapter 10. And the game is supposed to have around 20... If 10 is indeed the pinnacle, then it means the game is heavily unbalanced if you can master 1 stat completely by the mid-game. It would be easy to finish the game with 10/10/10/10 which kind of defeats the purpose of role-playing and focusing on different stats if you can have it all even without the cheats. But it wouldn't be much problem if the max level for a stat is 15/20.

Well if it does go beyond 10 then it would be fine (one less problem if 10 isn't meant to be perfection), but I wonder if that will actually happen. I mean, when you think of how the character cards are set up with Axel at 9s and Seymour at 10s, and considering their image, I don't know that they'll be doing the sort of growing in each of their story-lines to constitute ending up at 15 or 20 in order to keep their positions in regards to the other characters (and keep the scores authentic). Seymour is supposed to be incredibly intelligent and 'wise' with his philosophical mind/experience, etc, but even you yourself admitted that he probably won't be willing to do much growing beyond how he is now (beyond some concession for Lena if, as we said, he actually falls for her). And I agree, he's pretty settled in the way he does things, plus he's sort of at an age where he's probably not gonna make any big changes anyway - unless he's forced to.

So I guess that's a point. If he does do any growing in those departments (specifically intelligence/wits) it would need to be as a result of some pretty impactful event/moment - giving him that wake-up call that forces him to grow to remain 'on top' where he likes to be. Again, I guess Lena could be that cause... potentially Emma? Or a vengeful Ian who gets something damning on him? that could do it, but even then, I wonder exactly how much they could truly unsettle him, considering all the shit he's probably had to deal with, and done himself, as a ruthless businessman of age and experience. As such I can't really see any character naturally going beyond Seymour's wits score and thus making him seem less intelligent in context - if it does happen it seems almost like an imbalance in the story (to suddenly have Ian at a 12 or something, while Seymour is still at 10). I just can't imagine Eva would let Seymour be anything less then the ultimate threat/challenge in the game if that's truly what he's meant to be - not just now, but throughout the game.

Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait and see. If Seymour is meant to go beyond his score, and that means character-building growth (for better or worse), I'd happily be proven wrong.

 

[lifehacks]

Even though we're still to see a fleshed-out Seymour, he wouldn't be a 10 in any skill. Well, maybe in lust if he's willing to take it as good as he gives - literally - and nothing is off the table. Like, we're talking kinkiest man that ever lived here. But the fact is, nobody is a 10.

You make a lot of good points in your post, however, EvaKiss hasn't clearly defined the ORS skills. Lust (in the game) could be a collection of several things. In real life lust is defined as sexual desire - which is not neccesarily acted upon. So I think that argument falls a bit flat.

 

[PilotLara]

I'll drop this here as it's somewhat relevant to the current discussion. This affects Ian/Lena's stats.

 

[HaremGamesHater]

does anyone know anymore games that are like this <3 ? female protagonist and meant for more girl gamers uwu <3 ?

Try Descent