VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[dundun]

I'm basing it on trends I've seen across patreon numbers to estimate the total. Some patreon devs like Eva don't show the totals they make per month. But some successful devs do. Analyzing the ones who do, the subscriber count x the second tier price typically comes out to a little over or under what the dev makes per month. The end monthly total is almost always roughly at or over that calculation if you need a Tier 2+ subscription to get updates on new content, as Eva's patreon requires (Tier 1 just gets GGGB). Even more-so if Tier 3 or above saves a week or more wait-time for updates than Tier 2. Eva's matches that as well, on to Tier 4 at the earliest Alpha releases. Do these devs I've calculated from routinely release monthly or bimonthly either? Nope. They tend to release at roughly the same extended schedule as Eva or longer, give or take one or two.

Yes, it's a guess. But based on the trends I've looked through, it's safe to say Eva's at least at around $13k a month and quite likely $14k or more, at least before Patreon takes their chunk.

Why did I even look into this?: Analytics are the best kind of anal when you're planning for a potential porn game.


Given, as one poster mentioned, I haven't calculated what chunk Patreon takes out of that. So this would be a general estimate of beforehand. Patreon may take up to a $2k chunk or more out of the subtotal with commissions, depending on Eva's plan level (likely plan 2 at 8% commission) and transaction fees, which vary from pledge to pledge.

Or you could just extrapolate her last known data. On Jan. 30, 2019 she got 7231$ from 1934 patreons. Now she has 2107 patreons so that would be 7878$, nowhere near your 14k. My secret source tells me it is about 9500 right now which fits very well considering she raised the minimum tier for the full game from 3$ to 5$ (On Jan. 30, 2019 she had 792 patreons on the 3$ tier, if they all raised to the new 5$ tier that would put it to 9500).
Using other creators as reference is not a good choice as their income per patreon differs wildly. Just take the 2 highest ranking adult creators(

You must be registered to see the links

) who's income is still public, DC with 69,885 from 28442 patreons and AS with 117,301 from 11589 patreons. If you use these numbers to divine EvaKiss that would range from 5117 to 21327.

 

[BloodyMares]

at least before Patreon takes their chunk

And before taxes and Paypal fees, as well as paying the coder, colorist, etc. All of those expenses can easily subtract over 50% of income. It's easy to count someone else's money until you start doing something yourself and realize just how much you get ripped off by all that processing. For each $2 pledge you get only 1.25 or so before withdrawal, and after the transaction those .25 are gone as well.

 

[crazydan]

And guys, whether or not Eva has the writer's block, let's not forget that the longer the story goes, the lenghtier every chapter becomes, development should realistically be esponentially longer as the story unfolds and we are currently waiting for the 10th chapter from a project that Eva herself believes can be 20 chapters long or more. This is not being hopeful, this is straight insanity.

I agree. Personally I think it would be best to end the game at 12 chapters. Instead of continuing to broaden the story, start narrowing it towards the end. It would already make ORS a satisfying complete game and better than 99% of what's on this site. Then for the next game, outline all the story/writing upfront. A little project management goes a long way.

For better or worse though, the Patreon system pays for time not product, so there's little incentive to finish quickly, or at all.

 

[juniorforlife17313]

Wonder why she hasn't done her weekly update yet. Been over 11 days now

 

[dundun]

Wonder why she hasn't done her weekly update yet. Been over 11 days now

Nothing out of the ordinary. She always had a hard time keeping up the 'weekly'. She often is a few days late and sometimes skips a week (or two). I guess even for a writer it is hard to come up with another way to say 'I'm still working on it' every week.

 

[bauman]

I agree. Personally I think it would be best to end the game at 12 chapters. Instead of continuing to broaden the story, start narrowing it towards the end. It would already make ORS a satisfying complete game and better than 99% of what's on this site. Then for the next game, outline all the story/writing upfront. A little project management goes a long way.

For better or worse though, the Patreon system pays for time not product, so there's little incentive to finish quickly, or at all.

We're at chapter 9, and the story just got going. Some of the characters in the main cast are still underdeveloped. If the dev ends it at 12, it will be a rushed and unsatisfying conclusion because of the pacing.

 

[atrebor68]

It looks like he means it. In general, based on these figures, we can assume that the income on patreon is around of 9-11k. Just the average figure and, of course, before the deduction of the patreon commission.
View attachment 1909052

Yep. Is right to calculate an average of 5 euros per patronizer.

 

[mommysboiii]

We're at chapter 9, and the story just got going. Some of the characters in the main cast are still underdeveloped. If the dev ends it at 12, it will be a rushed and unsatisfying conclusion because of the pacing.

I agree. Personally I think it would be best to end the game at 12 chapters. Instead of continuing to broaden the story, start narrowing it towards the end. It would already make ORS a satisfying complete game and better than 99% of what's on this site. Then for the next game, outline all the story/writing upfront. A little project management goes a long way.

For better or worse though, the Patreon system pays for time not product, so there's little incentive to finish quickly, or at all.

yeah the story just started(with holly,lena and cindy we can just start a relationship) know the kinky things begin and different routes it would be so unsatisfying if the story just rushed to an end there is so much potentially for different path especially for cindy and holly. And i dont understand what do you get if she starts a new story? I mean if she does 3 short games with worse cheracter devolopment or huge game with good cheracter devolopment I dont really see the difference or the value that you would get out of 3 short games?

 

[Lollonman]

I'm sorry but this is a laughable thing to say. One writer is more than enough for the story to be written, the real issue is that Eva does everything else as well.

Honestly I would agree with you if we were talking about writing a complex storyline, but we are talking about writing scripts for the same story from 2 different POVs and taking into account every different choice taken before. If you combine that with the absence of a set of complete storylines to follow, I still think that whether it's 5 or 10 writers, they'll still need 2 years minimum to complete this project properly, and we are talking about a single persone doing the writing part and everything else.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

Honestly I would agree with you if we were talking about writing a complex storyline, but we are talking about writing scripts for the same story from 2 different POVs and taking into account every different choice taken before. If you combine that with the absence of a set of complete storylines to follow, I still think that whether it's 5 or 10 writers, they'll still need 2 years minimum to complete this project properly, and we are talking about a single persone doing the writing part and everything else.

I'm telling you, it's not that complicated. The hardest thing by far is the coding, not the script writing. A writer can always cut corners when writing, take for example Jeremy in Chapter 8 and 9. After Lena has sex with him in Chapter 8 they never interact in Chapter 9. Eva probably decided to take a shortcut here and not address what they did yet. The biggest issue when writing is figuring where the story is going. Figuring how the choices impact the characters is an issue of coding. It's something that cannot be cut short.

 

[_Zebra_]

Figuring how the choices impact the characters is an issue of coding.

What? The code has nothing to to with that. That is choice management, which is not that hard. You can track stuff on a piece of paper and/or create a map for each major choice that happens in each chapter.

The hardest thing by far is the coding, not the script writing.

IMO, it's exactly the opposite. The code is the easiest thing that you can do in this visual novel. It's bare bones. With a good script, you can write and test everything in a week or less; having 0 bugs at the end of the process. And I said a week, just because I think is boring to copy paste text from the script into a .rpy file. Probably after an hour or two you'll end up on YouTube watching, I don't know, a spaghetti eating competition between a golden retriever and a siberian husky.

 

[Night Hacker]

I'm telling you, it's not that complicated. The hardest thing by far is the coding, not the script writing. A writer can always cut corners when writing, take for example Jeremy in Chapter 8 and 9. After Lena has sex with him in Chapter 8 they never interact in Chapter 9. Eva probably decided to take a shortcut here and not address what they did yet. The biggest issue when writing is figuring where the story is going. Figuring how the choices impact the characters is an issue of coding. It's something that cannot be cut short.

Huh? I have coded in many languages for a few decades now... coding is easy, especially in RenPY (Python) which is probably the easiest languages I have used. Rendering the 3D scenes is also relatively easy (once you have hardware for it)... writing a story has by FAR been the most difficult. It's not something one can just learn from a tutorial. Tracking interactions in visual novels adds more difficulty, especially in this game that has to track two characters where the combination of what can happen is exponential, i dont know how they do it to be honest. I am creating a visual novel with one character and coming up with a good story and figuring out how the characters will act, how various inputs will effect them is far more difficult than coding it.

I have a new found respect for people who can write a good story, that takes a lot of talent.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

And before taxes and Paypal fees, as well as paying the coder, colorist, etc. All of those expenses can easily subtract over 50% of income. It's easy to count someone else's money until you start doing something yourself and realize just how much you get ripped off by all that processing. For each $2 pledge you get only 1.25 or so before withdrawal, and after the transaction those .25 are gone as well.

Yep. But not sure if you're misinterpreting my intent there. My post wasn't a "see! She makes bank. WTF is she doing?!?" sort of thing. Merely guestimating how much she pulls off of Patreon, where I know a huge chunk goes to other expenses, fees and freelancers to help her out. All that takes money to keep the show rolling. My curiosity is merely in how much money certain devs have coming in to make a quality game (which means fees, freelancers, usage rights, ect). Plus what they've done right (or wrong) to gain that fanbase to help with the funding (or not). I wasn't using the estimate to imagine all the trips around the world she's probably not taking and I don't think she's lounging on a beach in Tahiti sipping away all that Patreon money with $20 Pina Coladas.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

What? The code has nothing to to with that. That is choice management, which is not that hard. You can track stuff on a piece of paper and/or create a map for each major choice that happens in each chapter.


IMO, it's exactly the opposite. The code is the easiest thing that you can do in this visual novel. It's bare bones. With a good script, you can write and test everything in a week or less; having 0 bugs at the end of the process. And I said a week, just because I think is boring to copy paste text from the script into a .rpy file. Probably after an hour or two you'll end up on YouTube watching, I don't know, a spaghetti eating competition between a golden retriever and a siberian husky.

I guess people just find stuff they are good at easier than the stuff they are bad at. Go figure.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Or you could just extrapolate her last known data. On Jan. 30, 2019 she got 7231$ from 1934 patreons. Now she has 2107 patreons so that would be 7878$, nowhere near your 14k. My secret source tells me it is about 9500 right now which fits very well considering she raised the minimum tier for the full game from 3$ to 5$ (On Jan. 30, 2019 she had 792 patreons on the 3$ tier, if they all raised to the new 5$ tier that would put it to 9500).
Using other creators as reference is not a good choice as their income per patreon differs wildly. Just take the 2 highest ranking adult creators(

You must be registered to see the links

) who's income is still public, DC with 69,885 from 28442 patreons and AS with 117,301 from 11589 patreons. If you use these numbers to divine EvaKiss that would range from 5117 to 21327.

That's useful info as I'm really just trying to figure this out for my own purposes, not to judge what Eva or any other creator is or isn't doing with the money. But isn't the minimum Tier to get the latest chapters (one week after Beta) $6.50 now? I don't even see a $5 tier on her patreon.

Are there any other sites to look at for these sort of metrics, btw? Links appreciated.

 

[dundun]

That's useful info as I'm really just trying to figure this out for my own purposes, not to judge what Eva or any other creator is or isn't doing with the money. But isn't the minimum Tier to get the latest chapters (one week after Beta) $6.50 now? I don't even see a $5 tier on her patreon.

Are there any other sites to look at for these sort of metrics, btw? Links appreciated.

For me is is 5€ so I just guessed the $ price.
Why would you need another site? There is everyting right there. (

You must be registered to see the links

)

 

[BloodyMares]

With a good script, you can write and test everything in a week or less

Are you a tester by any means? From my experience, the hardest/most time-consuming part of testing is reading the text and remembering which branch you're on (and some characters have A LOT of them), making sure the dialogue is accurate to what has happened in that particular playthrough. While it takes around a week to test the code itself, making sure there's nothing that would lead to an error or wrong sprite display, which I can even fix on my own, the branch-tracking takes A LOT more time to do by yourself. You got to have notes of everything that happened per branch and cross-reference anything you read with that data. The problem is, there is no such data to cross-reference with and you only have to rely on your memory (and the guide). Like, I was able to spot some branch-related issues in Chapters 2 - 5 only recently, because while testing it never occured to me to try and commit to unpopular choices such as getting black-eyed by Robert and seeing that the image of Ian sitting in front of computer doesn't have a black eye overlay.

 

[JoJoPool]

Wonder why she hasn't done her weekly update yet. Been over 11 days now

She's busy working she couldn't find the time, and by busy i mean sipping a cocktail on a nice beach somewhere.
P.S : THIS IS A TROLL POST MEANT AS A JOKE, DO NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND GO FULL RAGE MODE !

 

[reyir]

I'm telling you, it's not that complicated. The hardest thing by far is the coding, not the script writing. A writer can always cut corners when writing, take for example Jeremy in Chapter 8 and 9. After Lena has sex with him in Chapter 8 they never interact in Chapter 9. Eva probably decided to take a shortcut here and not address what they did yet. The biggest issue when writing is figuring where the story is going. Figuring how the choices impact the characters is an issue of coding. It's something that cannot be cut short.

The coding stuff its not that hard, cuz when she write the story with all of that branch, she will makes variable for every branch that she makes, and basically just use the code in the previous routes that already in the game and modify it a little by changing the variable and the rules for the new story... only if she had some kind of minigames in the new updates that need their own algorithms and logic to makes that minigame works, then the coding stuff will became difficult, but if she only focusing on the story stuff without adding new minigame, then its rather easy, the only bug that will pop up is the misplacement of the variable or some typo, thats it.

The story part is on another level if we compared it to coding part, cuz to makes one scene with multiple outcome then that every outcome will had multiple outcome for it and so on. And then its two character story, all of that branch need to combined in some occasions in the game and again it can be different based on what choices you makes before you reach it.

Her previous games, GGGB, if we use the standard of most games in this site, GGGB can split into multiple games and its still can beat most of the games in this site in story, art and content aspect, cuz most of the game in this site barely gave us a choices that will come up with different outcomes sometimes just pure linear, but GGGB has so many routes in it, and thats enough of proof of how hard it is to makes the story for ORS

 

[JohnnyKiss]

The coding stuff its not that hard, cuz when she write the story with all of that branch, she will makes variable for every branch that she makes, and basically just use the code in the previous routes that already in the game and modify it a little by changing the variable and the rules for the new story... only if she had some kind of minigames in the new updates that need their own algorithms and logic to makes that minigame works, then the coding stuff will became difficult, but if she only focusing on the story stuff without adding new minigame, then its rather easy, the only bug that will pop up is the misplacement of the variable or some typo, thats it.

The story part is on another level if we compared it to coding part, cuz to makes one scene with multiple outcome then that every outcome will had multiple outcome for it and so on. And then its two character story, all of that branch need to combined in some occasions in the game and again it can be different based on what choices you makes before you reach it.

Her previous games, GGGB, if we use the standard of most games in this site, GGGB can split into multiple games and its still can beat most of the games in this site in story, art and content aspect, cuz most of the game in this site barely gave us a choices that will come up with different outcomes sometimes just pure linear, but GGGB has so many routes in it, and thats enough of proof of how hard it is to makes the story for ORS

I see where you are coming from but the story is definitely not that complex that 10 writers couldn't complete it in 4-5 years like someone else mentioned. You basically have 2 stories, Ian's and Lena and you write those two mostly separate from one another. You decide where you want to go with them and then write all of the supporting characters depending on how you want them to interact/react with the two protagonists.

Lets use the example of Ian asking Lena for them to be an official couple. The whole idea behind the scene is that Ian asks Lena to be his girlfriend and then you go from there writing the variables. For example, If Lena had sex with Jeremy she will say no to the request, and so on. Maybe writing the dialogue for all of the different scenes is time consuming and hard but figuring out the variables shouldn't be that hard as all of the supporting characters already have a role to fulfill which was assigned to them.