- Jan 13, 2022
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- Thread starter Eva Kiss
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I wouldn't call Lena's choices a 'corruption' at all. In GGGB, yeah, there was a real corruption. Compared to mugging. selling drugs, Tyrone's pool party and Arthur's quest, Lena sleeping with manager to keep a job and making erotic photos for rich old man is nothing.
- Oct 17, 2019
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dude this game is half way done eva cant give everything away so fast I am 100% sure there will be way more corruption and options even if in a relationship with cindy,alison,holly,lena,gillian... but this need build up I am pretty sure the things that you expect will probably happen between cheapter 15-20.
the game needs a fundation and proper build up first which happend until now GGGB was already done at this point because it was lees complex, less content.
The cheating from Lena is absolutely corruption. Seymour's route can be corruption if Lena is dating Ian, otherwise it depends if you see being blackmailed as Lena being corrupt, maybe it depends if she begins to enjoy it. If she's into Seymour from the start maybe it's not corruption, but if she reluctantly agrees to it then I guess it counts. GGGB was all about corruption tho it literally says in the title.
- Jan 13, 2022
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- Apr 25, 2020
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When it's ready obviously
- Oct 1, 2017
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When it rains, it pours. Not only was one of the games I have been following for a long time been abandoned but now, ORS has had a 2 week long delay. There is also a game I have been following where the author hasn't made any progress in a month because they decided to add animations, a game where the author hasn't communicated with the players in 2 months and a game that is seemingly just getting endlessly rendered XD
- Jun 15, 2022
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Lena is not as shy and prude as basic Ashley, but it's still corruption. At the moment it's a lighter version than GGGB, but we've only covered half of the game. Stalkfap, cheating, sex with everything that moves, become Axel's slave again or go under a perverted oligarch, as for me, this fits the definition of corruption.
- Dec 23, 2018
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Considering some of your other posts, this view does not surprise me in the least, still it is black and white on several points, when the world is shades of grey. While cheating or going back to an asshole like Axel most definitely is corrupt or self-forgetting, your other points are very much a choice of what you do and not corrupt on their own.
Stalkfap is as corrupt as far as you decide to go and the "corruption grade" hinges very much why and what you do with it. Posting some "risk" bikini pics or artsy nudes on your own decision is about as corrupt as buying a packet of chewing gum!
"Having sex with anything that moves" might not be as squeaky clean as some people will want to, but a single or FwB Lena is not corrupt simply by the number of her sex partners. There is more to it than just this.
"Go under a perverted oligarch" is simply metagaming, since Eva "cast" Seymour as the main antagonist of the game, which he does not have to be. He could simply be a bored rich man dabbling in a new hobby and simping on Lena, as some paths of the game very much insinuate. Even Seymour and Lena hitting off from early on does not make her corrupt just so.
- Jun 15, 2022
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About Stalkfap, this is nothing more than a clarification, the player himself decides how much to corrupt Lena in this role. But more involvement in Stalkfap brings more easy money, especially exclusive requests, which are more perverted - you can't argue with that. When you play as "good Lena", you always face this temptation - "Wouldn't it all go to hell?" Because there simply isn't enough money.
Well, look, Lena. who went from being in a relationship with a guy, starts sleeping with a lot of guys. In terms of game mechanics in AVN, this can be called corruption. Of course I'm not judging, I myself have 3 such runs.
Based on some of your previous posts, these views don't surprise me at all. Yes - yes, good, innocent, slandered Seymour. I've heard this tale before. I won't fall for it a second time, I have more important things to do.
I think for something to be considered corruption in porn terms, 3 things broadly need to be met.
First: The character needs to undergo some sort of shift at the hands of some outside force. Of course the result will be sexual in nature.
Second: the character needs to initially believe what the end result to be as being bad. For example Lena initially thinks cheating on Ian is bad, but though the outside influence of Axel's wondercock, she does it anyways. At the end she may or may not feel bad about it, maybe she justifies it to herself.
Third: The player must believe the final result to being a bad outcome for the character or for characters affected by the actions. If the player doesn't see anything wrong with the final result of the corruption, then they won't perceive it as being corruption. For example if Lena decides to make a very slutty stalkfap because of he bad finances, a player who sees stalkfap/onlyfans as being a bad path for women to go down, for whatever reason, will see Lena as being corrupted. But if a different player doesn't see anything wrong with making a stalkfap/onlyfans and just sees it as female empowerment, then he won't see it as being corruption.
This line of reasoning is in an earlier message I said Seymour's path could considered corruption if he went down the blackmail path, but not necessarily if Lena was down with him from the start. Obviously I see one as being very bad and the other not really bad unless you want
Regardless of how the player feels IRL about the themes used in Lena's corruption, it is still important to emphasize that Lena's character already starts with an established value that artistic modelling should not devolve into sex work, and both StalkFap and Seymour's route tempt Lena into selling out and to betray that value as they both start under the prerrogative of just being alternative ways of promoting and developing her modelling career.
Had both of those routes been presented as sex work from the start, perhaps the player could have explored them as a way of tailoring how Lena's character feels about sex work without it necessarily being "corruption", but the fact they are both about perverting her initial artistic values makes the corruption tropes pretty evident, regardless of if the player is having their Lena enjoy herself and dive headfirst, or if they are having her begrudgingly dragged into it.
Had both of those routes been presented as sex work from the start, perhaps the player could have explored them as a way of tailoring how Lena's character feels about sex work without it necessarily being "corruption", but the fact they are both about perverting her initial artistic values makes the corruption tropes pretty evident, regardless of if the player is having their Lena enjoy herself and dive headfirst, or if they are having her begrudgingly dragged into it.
How the player sees that shift is still important for whether or not it is corruption. Lena changing or going against her values alone does not constitute corruption. The end-state has to be seen by the player as bad.
As an example imagine if someone had a friend who would watch movies because they are the work of the devil. Now if that someone eventually convinced the friend to watch movies with them and the friend changed their opinion on whether or not movies are the devil's work, would that be corruption? No, because from our outside perspective we have an opinion on the end-state as not being bad. Same with Lena, if someone doesn't see a problem with Lena mixing sexuality with her artistic integrity, then they wouldn't see what she is doing as getting corrupted, rather just Lena changing her perspective.
Corruption is to some extent defined by the player's morality. Most people have broad shared values on this stuff though, which is why most corruption content is agreed upon as being corruption, such as enjoying blackmail, rape, and cheating on ones partner. The player sees those things as being bad and therefore as the character being corrupted.
Even Ian has corruption content that meets this threshold with Wade and Cindy. Everyone would agree that banging your friends girl behind his back is a bad person thing to do and Ian initially has reservations, but eventually succumbs to the Cindy gorilla grip.
I'd still see it as "corruption" if the method of "convincement" involved bribery, threats, blackmail, and other forms of manipulative coercement. For example I don't have a problem with drinking alcohol, still does not sit right with me to see someone peer pressured and borderline bullied into drinking when they didn't want to.
The issue with your example is that "your friend believing movies are the work of the devil" sounds like something he would only get from religious indoctrination which would already be a form of "corruption". If you convinced them to change their mind on the merits of your arguments alone with no shady stuff, you'd basically be doing the reverse of corrupting them since you'd be helping them break free and assisting then into making up their own mind.
On the other hand if your friend just didn't want to watch movies for whatever quirky reason he came up with himself and you started to be really pushy, demeaning his lifestyle, threatening to cut him off, etc etc until he gave up and went along with what you wanted, then I'd say you were a "corrupting" influence regardless of good intentions and seemingly harmless results.
It is the difference between Ian and Lena convincing Holly that it is okay for her to be more confident in enjoying herself and Ivy basically calling her a no-life nerd if she doesn't start doing the things Ivy tells her to do.
- Dec 4, 2017
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My 2 cents: This distinction is not what separates corruption from non-corruptive influence. Is Ivy being a bitch to Holly by doing those things? Definitely. Is it what makes it corruption? Not really. Rather, it's the difference between Holly in point A and Holly in point B (shift in her morality). Lena can corrupt Holly, too, but in a much gentler and seductive way, cheering her on to be brave (and promiscuous / exhibitionist) which leads to the same result (Holly blowing Mark in a car). I'd say it counts as corruption because Mark is openly a player who simply follows Ivy's instructions and doesn't care about Holly's interests.
We all remember Lena's reaction when Ian acted this way with Holly, she was super-protective of her. But now, gently pushing Holly to have a one-night stand with a guy who thinks with his cock (who Holly is not even into), directly contradicts Lena's established morality. So not only Holly got corrupted by Lena, the player also corrupted Lena to not be as protective of Holly, pushing her towards casual sex with a guy but without demeaning Holly's self-worth, only tempting her with positive consequences if she does that (promise of improved confidence in her sexuality) which is totally manipulative but in a way that makes Holly happy, not insecure.
To sum-up, my understanding of corruption is that it has nothing to do with the player's morality or the attitude in which you go about it, but it's about the significant shift of the character's starting morality that makes them do things outside of their comfort zone and goes against their initial desires / goals. So by that formula: Holly wants to be beautiful, brave, and confident just like Lena and Ivy (she is envious of Lena even if you don't increase holly_change score, so that desire is intrinsic to her and is outside of player's control) but being promiscuous isn't in her plans and is clearly outside of her comfort zone. So, posing naked for Lena as an excercise for her self-confidence isn't corruption, because Lena only encourages Holly to do what she already wants or is curious about, but hooking up with Mark or Ivy falls under corruption because it adds promiscuity into the mix (and requires holly_change variable if we're being meta). Likewise, her desire is Ian but not a meaningless one-night stand - she's glad that it happened but still feels used by Ian. So sleeping with her by itself isn't corruption (it's what she wanted) but somehow convincing her to accept being Ian's side-piece (if that ever happens) would classify as corruption because it's something that Holly wouldn't go for initially.
The tricky thing with Lena though, is that we can't fully judge Lena's starting morality regarding sex because we're starting the game with her after she's already been with Axel. We don't know the full extent of her sexual adventures. It came as a huge surprise when Eva revealed that Lena used to be Axel's sub and thus having capacity to be perverted. Those polaroids were pornographic, and while they did that in private, it still lets us know that Lena is okay posing for private porn (that goes beyond her artistic modeling). And we don't really know if she had other boyfriends before Axel or just sexual experience we don't know about (besides Ivy and threesome with Cherry). So if we think of something as corruption at this point, some details may be revealed exposing that Lena can be much more perverted that we imagined, thus none of what has happened so far could be considered as corruption if she has done similar things before. The only obvious corruption with Lena so far is not really based on sexual activities but regarding her interactions with people or changing opinion about modeling / stalkfap. Seducing Louise's boyfriend and fucking him behind her back is an obvious corruption, so as hooking up with Mike knowing he has a girlfriend. Or treating Louise like a sex toy is also corruption of Lena's morality. Then, from posting only artistic modeling pictures to being okay posting lewd porn for money and thrill, without any artistic pretense is also corruption regardless of the player's views on it because Lena at the start of the game wouldn't be okay doing that, she needed Ivy to lead by example.
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Agree with most of what you said, will just add real fast that I don't think it is possible to get the Mark scene if you haven't told Holly to keep going to the gym, which removes nearly all of Ivy's interactions with her. Until the "no-gym" route gets an equivalent scene, I wouldn't say Lena is "corrupting" Holly, at most she accidentally makes her more influenceable and then lets Ivy do her thing, either because Lena agrees with Ivy's goals (if not her methods) or is too passive about the whole affair.
Lena being protective of Holly in regards to Ian was less about the corruption and more about the heartbreak. I think that if you play your Lena to not be interested in romance anymore, her behavior in regards to pushing Holly into a one-night stand with Mark isn't really contradictory nor a sign of Lena's own corruption. Lena starts the game at a crossroads and uncertain about how she feels about the entire idea of finding love due to the heartbreak she had with Axel, she can simultaneously think the one-night stand with Ian was a bad idea because it would bring Holly pain while also think that the one-night stand with Mark is not a terrible idea because being able to have casual relationships without romantic feelings would be a good thing for Holly (although I think that no matter the scenario, Lena is always a bit shocked about Holly giving Mark a bj in their first date, rathen than impressed or proud)
Also I think it is important for there to be a distinction between "corrupting" someone and just sharing your own opinion and being a part of another person's growth. Saying that any kind of influence is a form of corruption just because it resulted in change is a dangerous line of reasoning in my opinion, hence why I associate "corruption" more with coercion and manipulation than just the result of change.
Very much this!
In addition, as we can see often in the thread, there is quite a number of discutants which consider everything is fine and dandy if it concerns their chosen characters, all others or the differing opinion of other members is directly "corrupt". Which is far from helpful.