VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Gicoo]

That's not what i asked about. Who is to say that Jeremy isn't offering Alison drugs, and that Alison isn't taking them because she feels pressurized to keep Jeremy's interest? Maybe Ian's remarks are also supposed to highlight that her behavior is not "normal" for her?

Unless that is spelled out, we are expected to know everything about their relationship from what the text gives us. Expections arise if the information is flawed on purpose and/or misleading. From what we know of Alison and Jeremy, Alison isn't as gullible as Holly and much more in control of her limits, while Jeremy is too simpleminded to resort to drugs.

The game literally refers to Alison who goes this route as a bimbo. This is, if anything, the extreme form of "corruption" in these games, that goes beyond basic "slutty" behavior of sucking a few cocks.

Yet bimbo Alison doesn't do anything as drastic as Holly. Bimbo could just refer to her new looks. GGGB Ashley could end up as a plastic doll, but still be faithfull to Eric.

Seriously, it kind of boggles the mind why exactly people believe Ivy is the sort of a person who'd drug and rape someone while what, pretending to be their friend? It's funny that for all the talk about "double standards that give women a pass" she seems to be the only person who get smeared with this kind of talk.

Meantime, fucking Arthur: Hello, Lena
*audience: wild cheers*

double standards, indeed.

You can also apply this to Lena on her meanier paths and probably Agnes (not enough screen time and exposition of her character to say what she is up to), Ivy isn't the only female corrupter in the game.

Your Arthur comparison is a strawman. Aside from the odd troll, no reasonable person would't acknowlegde Arthurs criminal tendencies. Him being an evil, wrong, criminal person is known and spelled out in-game.

I don't mind Ivy and Arthur corrupting their victims, these are potentially great plotlines. But I call them out at the same time.

---

I highly differatiate between Holly and the other girls, since Holly is portrayed as noticable more childish, naive, and not mental matured, there is a noticable discrepancy between her intellect and emotional intelligence with her social awareness. Ivy and/or Lena effectively order her what to do and not a single time she resists and says no. Responsibility goes both ways, we have the culprits/abusers and the victims/abused that in some scenarios allow themselves to be used. We can ascertain that Ivy is smart enough to know what damage she could do to Holly.

Ivy isn't treating anyone else as she is Holly. She tries with Lena, but the latter can fight back and Ivy knows that, hence she is less pushy. To judge ones true character, we can observe them in situations when they have full power and nothing to fear, or when they are dealing when subordinates (and not equals or superiors). The way how dismissive and rude Ivy is to Holly, how she doesn't regard her as an equal and fully goes to "take her under her wing" by effectively pimping her out (aside from the money aspect) is far more exemplary and evident of her character than her behavior towards Lena, since with her she has to be on guard and behave herself a bit.


Else I agree that we will never get it spelled out that it could be rape on a technical level. Rape is treated understandably less serious by the audience in porn (games), since its fictive and in the writers and readers control. A bunch of scenarios in GGGB and ORS are flat out criminal, but we rarely complain since we understand its porn. Dubcon was mentioned to have the rape scenario without technically having the troublesome RL rape repercussions. And finally, writers avoiding spelled out rape for a loophole to distribute their work on sites like patreon, but still implementing these scenarios and just dodging it with some esoteric adjustment.

 

[Geigi]

Unless that is spelled out, we are expected to know everything about their relationship from what the text gives us. Expections arise if the information is flawed on purpose and/or misleading. From what we know of Alison and Jeremy, Alison isn't as gullible as Holly and much more in control of her limits, while Jeremy is too simpleminded to resort to drugs.



Yet bimbo Alison doesn't do anything as drastic as Holly. Bimbo could just refer to her new looks. GGGB Ashley could end up as a plastic doll, but still be faithfull to Eric.



You can also apply this to Lena on her meanier paths and probably Agnes (not enough screen time and exposition of her character to say what she is up to), Ivy isn't the only female corrupter in the game.

Your Arthur comparison is a strawman. Aside from the odd troll, no reasonable person would't acknowlegde Arthurs criminal tendencies. Him being an evil, wrong, criminal person is known and spelled out in-game.

I don't mind Ivy and Arthur corrupting their victims, these are potentially great plotlines. But I call them out at the same time.

---

I highly differatiate between Holly and the other girls, since Holly is portrayed as noticable more childish, naive, and not mental matured, there is a noticable discrepancy between her intellect and emotional intelligence with her social awareness. Ivy and/or Lena effectively order her what to do and not a single time she resists and says no. Responsibility goes both ways, we have the culprits/abusers and the victims/abused that in some scenarios allow themselves to be used. We can ascertain that Ivy is smart enough to know what damage she could do to Holly.

Ivy isn't treating anyone else as she is Holly. She tries with Lena, but the latter can fight back and Ivy knows that, hence she is less pushy. To judge ones true character, we can observe them in situations when they have full power and nothing to fear, or when they are dealing when subordinates (and not equals or superiors). The way how dismissive and rude Ivy is to Holly, how she doesn't regard her as an equal and fully goes to "take her under her wing" by effectively pimping her out (aside from the money aspect) is far more exemplary and evident of her character than her behavior towards Lena, since with her she has to be on guard and behave herself a bit.


Else I agree that we will never get it spelled out that it could be rape on a technical level. Rape is treated understandably less serious by the audience in porn (games), since its fictive and in the writers and readers control. A bunch of scenarios in GGGB and ORS are flat out criminal, but we rarely complain since we understand its porn. Dubcon was mentioned to have the rape scenario without technically having the troublesome RL rape repercussions. And finally, writers avoiding spelled out rape for a loophole to distribute their work on sites like patreon, but still implementing these scenarios and just dodging it with some esoteric adjustment.

Ivy reminds me of my ex friend from class, we were minors back then. I remember we were in the park just talking and since it was getting dark I wanted to go home. Suddenly, some guys came out of nowhere who knew my friend. I was very uncomfortable because she wanted me to stay and meet them(there were no other people besides us and the guys). What I had done? I panicked for some reason and left.

 

[Gicoo]

Ivy reminds me of my friend from class, we were minors back then. I remember we were in the park just talking and since it was getting dark I wanted to go home. Suddenly, some some guys came out of nowhere who knew my friend. I was very uncomfortable because she wanted me to stay. What I had done? I panicked for some reason and left.

Well, we won't get the darker, more realistic of these porn plotlines, since they firstly meant to entertain, not to inform or educate. As far as yet, we won't get Holly suffering under negative long term effects of drug abuse, misscarriage, PTSD, withdrawing herself, failing to write her book etc. Instead the game focuses on her sexual liberation and debauchery in a very comforting and encouraging way.

Though to Evas credit, the darker repercussions are called out in Jessicas bad ending, some of Ashleys and Evas endings on the gang route, and Arthur can end up in jail. Regarding ORS, Seymour and his crownies may lose their reputation and get intangled in a scandal, Axel may get a imprisoned if his stalking tendencies goes too far, maybe Stan will get physical and have a breakdown if Lena and Louise push him too hard. So Hollys life getting destroyed by Ivy and Lena is still possible.

 

[Geigi]

Well, we won't get the darker, more realistic of these porn plotlines, since they firstly meant to entertain, not to inform or educate. As far as yet, we won't get Holly suffering under negative long term effects of drug abuse, misscarriage, PTSD, withdrawing herself, failing to write her book etc. Instead the game focuses on her sexual liberation and debauchery in a very comforting and encouraging way.

Though to Evas credit, the darker repercussions are called out in Jessicas bad ending, some of Ashleys and Evas endings on the gang route, and Arthur can end up in jail. Regarding ORS, Seymour and his crownies may lose their reputation and get intangled in a scandal, Axel may get a imprisoned if his stalking tendencies goes too far, maybe Stan will get physical and have a breakdown if Lena and Louise push him too hard. So Hollys life getting destroyed by Ivy and Lena is still possible.

I thought Seymour is the main villain and I was curious as to how his arc with Lena will progress since you can choose to accept/refuse signing the contract, so it could meant that there will be consequences for that and being loyal to Ian or not, but it seems that Eva won't expand it anymore.

 

[SearingFive]

Can't wait for the fedora Stan arc!

 

[Gicoo]

I thought Seymour is the main villain and I was curious as to how his arc with Lena will progress since you choose to accept/refuse signing the contract so it could meant that there will be consequences, but it seems that Eva won't expand it anymore.

He was very tame and "toothless" in his latest segment, but maybe he was playing it nice and can return to being demanding and ruthless later on. Also depending how Lena is treating him. The other possibility is that Arthur got introduced precisely to overtake Seymours nastier and evilier role. That way we still get the vile content, while Seymour remains classy. I'd disagree with that notion, I wanted Seymour to stay as sinister and ruthless as he was introduced and over the course of the story his sinister machinations should reveal and confirm our suspicions of him, that would be a rewarding, tense narrative.

 

[SearingFive]

I thought Seymour is the main villain and I was curious as to how his arc with Lena will progress since you can choose to accept/refuse signing the contract, so it could meant that there will be consequences for that and being loyal to Ian or not, but it seems that Eva won't expand it anymore.

It seems that if you accept the contract and go all in with Seymour, he's going to give her a lavish life, but in return, she would probably have to cut ties with her former friends and lover and ride the high-rise life. The word "control" is often used when talking about or to Seymour, so he's probably going to do that and take over her life as a paranoid control freak lover.

Refusing the contract on the other hand blacklists her from modelling jobs and it's not a be-all-end-all situation for Lena. She can and is recovering from that.

 

[Geigi]

It seems that if you accept the contract and go all in with Seymour, he's going to give her a lavish life, but in return, she would probably have to cut ties with her former friends and lover and ride the high-rise life. The word "control" is often used when talking about or to Seymour, so he's probably going to do that and take over her life as a paranoid control freak lover.

Refusing the contract on the other hand blacklists her from modelling jobs and it's not a be-all-end-all situation for Lena. She can and is recovering from that.

Damn, my type of a toxic male character. You are mine or no one else's.

 

[SearingFive]

Damn, my type of a man. You are mine or no one else's.

Well, she's gonna cheat on his paranoid ass later in the epilogue. A rich woman with nothing to do and an old-ass control freak paranoid husband is a recipe for a disaster. How long will he be the "Architect of her pleasure" after a certain age? Mommysboii gonna cream his pants!

 

[Geigi]

Well, she's gonna cheat on his paranoid ass later in the epilogue. A rich woman with nothing to do and an old-ass control freak paranoid husband is a recipe for a disaster. How long will he be the "Architect of her pleasure" after a certain age? Mommysboii gonna cream his pants!

Long until a younger Seymour shows up. No wait, Axel...

 

[Blurpee69]

Can't wait for the fedora Stan arc!

Before his overhaul he used to wear a fedora to the exhibition if Lena invited him. Lena and Louise both could comment on it. If I remember the conversation correctly, it was less him being a M'lady Red Pill Neckbeard Simp, and more just being unaware of fashion. Louise was also noticeably less antagonistic with Stan back then too, and both girls agreed to "fix" his wardrobe latter. So sorry buddy, seems you might have missed the fedora Stan arc.

Edit: Found the old Fedora screen shot

 

[ffive]

Yet bimbo Alison doesn't do anything as drastic as Holly. Bimbo could just refer to her new looks. GGGB Ashley could end up as a plastic doll, but still be faithfull to Eric.

You know, all else aside it's kind of funny that people keep talking about sucking a few dicks at a gloryhole (in a porn game of all things) as "drastic".

Without context, you'd think Holly has hold a donkey show on 5th Avenue or made a gang bang porn movie. Meantime, for your typical game with female protagonist and "must make money" excuse for a plot, a gloryhole is an entry-level activity that's considered relatively "safe" form of sex, because of anonymity and physical separation from the dick owner(s).

As for bimbo Alison, her options are somewhat limited, with her being potentially attached to Ian in some form. I doubt that many players would be keen to get movies of their sort-of-girlfriend taking central spot in a "white girl and black guys" meme, the way GGGB escalated. Still, we have yet to see how that sub-plot of hers unfolds.

Your Arthur comparison is a strawman. Aside from the odd troll, no reasonable person would't acknowlegde Arthurs criminal tendencies. Him being an evil, wrong, criminal person is known and spelled out in-game.

My point wasn't that people don't acknowledge Arthur's tendencies. The point was that they cheer on him for those and express wishes to see him indulge in them as much as possible. You don't really see people repeatedly complaining how Arthur is a terrible father and a drugging rapist in a way that's clearly negative towards him, as opposed to "and it's awesome".

I highly differatiate between Holly and the other girls, since Holly is portrayed as noticable more childish, naive, and not mental matured, there is a noticable discrepancy between her intellect and emotional intelligence with her social awareness.

I'm just as tired of this infantilization of Holly as Holly herself. She's an adult, one who is as old as Ivy and a year older than Lena. She is not a virgin, and she was interacting with people on sexual level before she focused on her writing career. No one gives Cindy a pass for being an idiot, i'm not going to make a special exception for Holly and coddle her as if she's some sort of autistic 12-year-old.

That's Stan's job.

 

[notstaged]

Found the old Fedora screen shot

Euphoric Stanley was too powerful, and now he will no longer be enlightened by his own intelligence anymore, the thread of fate was unceremoniously severed.

 

[Gicoo]

You know, all else aside it's kind of funny that people keep talking about sucking a few dicks at a gloryhole (in a porn game of all things) as "drastic".

Either I'm oversensitized or this is when the desensitized aspect kicks in and we are that used to porn that a glory hole just invokes a yawn, when its a mentally taxing act, very intrusive, objectifying and I gather you need a certain mental strenght and preparation to commit to it.

My point wasn't that people don't acknowledge Arthur's tendencies. The point was that they cheer on him for those and express wishes to see him indulge in them as much as possible. You don't really see people repeatedly complaining how Arthur is a terrible father and a drugging rapist in a way that's clearly negative towards him, as opposed to "and it's awesome".

With Arthur it is a good chunk more obvious and called out in text, though Lena does have to option to call Ivy out. Ivy isn't constantly called out for it, but she gets a freepass for being a hot woman, while her male equivalent Jeremy gets much more flag for much less troublesome shit he pulls. To get back to my very first observation: Would people here comment just as favorable and cheerfully if it was Mark or Marcel who sent Lena the video and gloatfully commented on it? Or would we, what I estimate, get a bit more backlash and worry about Holly being abused by those man?

I'm just as tired of this infantilization of Holly as Holly herself. She's an adult, one who is as old as Ivy and a year older than Lena. She is not a virgin, and she was interacting with people on sexual level before she focused on her writing career.

Age doesn't equate maturity, especially teens and young tweens, even more so if they had a sheltered restricted upbringing. Lena and Ivy have very quickly a good picture of how naive and sheltered Holly is, so there is more decency and delicacy to be expected.

You can say I apply a double standard when Holly is taken advantage of, while someone experienced and hardened like Lena knows the game and its rules and easily backs out on her own the moment she feels uncomfortable.

 

[CreativeCritic2]

You know, all else aside it's kind of funny that people keep talking about sucking a few dicks at a gloryhole (in a porn game of all things) as "drastic".

Without context, you'd think Holly has hold a donkey show on 5th Avenue or made a gang bang porn movie. Meantime, for your typical game with female protagonist and "must make money" excuse for a plot, a gloryhole is an entry-level activity that's considered relatively "safe" form of sex, because of anonymity and physical separation from the dick owner(s).

Agreed.

I dated someone who would basically spend afternoons sucking doink in the way that Holly does in the game. I asked about it and she said that it's safe once you're in as gloryholes in clubs and porno theatres have floor-to-ceiling doors that can be locked and the spaces are monitored so if anyone decides to try and force their way into your cubicle they'll be seen.

She said that the unpleasantness is in getting in and getting out as you can sometimes have guys approach or try to follow you. Once you are in the cubicle, you are safe. Way safer than going to a porno theatre or even a sex club. She also said that it's one of those things where the first one is the most difficult... once you're there and you've sucked one, as long as you're still horny you might as well suck another and another.

A couple of interesting complications:

A) She did all of this stuff in a period of her life where she was doing a ton of coke. She got off coke, cleaned up her act, and didn't go back so that chimes with the idea of Holly being high and doing stuff that was otherwise out of character.

B) She always said that she gave up because she thought it was nicer to hook up with guys over the internet and invite them to her home (which is how I met her). So that chimes with the idea that gloryholes are in some sense the safer, more anonymous version of hooking up with randos.

 

[dolfe67]

Age doesn't equate maturity, especially teens and young tweens, even more so if they had a sheltered restricted upbringing.

Sure but you infantilize them. Are they not accountable for their acts? Then they should still be under care and not having voting rights among other things. Do you think the same about male teens?

For instance if Ivy tells Holly to kill somebody, it's Ivy's fault and not hers?

 

[Mr. Notserious]

is there a route where Jeremy is dominant? not like Lena is always the one taking initiative.

 

[Hungover00]

Agreed.

I dated someone who would basically spend afternoons sucking doink in the way that Holly does in the game. I asked about it and she said that it's safe once you're in as gloryholes in clubs and porno theatres have floor-to-ceiling doors that can be locked and the spaces are monitored so if anyone decides to try and force their way into your cubicle they'll be seen.

She said that the unpleasantness is in getting in and getting out as you can sometimes have guys approach or try to follow you. Once you are in the cubicle, you are safe. Way safer than going to a porno theatre or even a sex club. She also said that it's one of those things where the first one is the most difficult... once you're there and you've sucked one, as long as you're still horny you might as well suck another and another.

A couple of interesting complications:

A) She did all of this stuff in a period of her life where she was doing a ton of coke. She got off coke, cleaned up her act, and didn't go back so that chimes with the idea of Holly being high and doing stuff that was otherwise out of character.

B) She always said that she gave up because she thought it was nicer to hook up with guys over the internet and invite them to her home (which is how I met her). So that chimes with the idea that gloryholes are in some sense the safer, more anonymous version of hooking up with randos.

I was always under the impression that gloryholes were 99% gay men.

Also, how do these more organised gloryholes avoid trouble with the cops?

You must be registered to see the links

for the lazy

 

[Eleanorduval]

I was always under the impression that gloryholes were 99% gay men.

Also, how do these more organised gloryholes avoid trouble with the cops?

man holly have sucked dicks at gloryholes? what u guys talking about

 

[Hungover00]

man holly have sucked dicks at gloryholes? what u guys talking about

Play the game and don't hang out in the comments!