VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[fatpussy123]

The thing is, there is not always blackmail involved. Especially if Lena and Seymour get off to a good start, he is far more a simp for her. And to be blunt, it is not nice, but today even the "blackmail" contract is not unusual in various businesses. Look e.g. into the music biz where adhesive contracts (and worse than the one Seymour gives out) are completely normal. That Seymour wants to bind the raw diamond he found in Lena is not unusual in business.
And unlike some real-life companies we could name, Seymour only takes the gloves off and resorts to blackmail if the Lena situation goes completely off the rails for him. Which does happen only under specific circumstances.

Face it, the Seymour as of chapter 10.3 is hardly a bad guy, just a shrewd business man, he is not half as rotten as the antagonists of GGGB.

Wow, so when the buisness man who prior to the meeting with Lena blacklisted her from her prior modelling agencies, doesn't need to resort to to outright blackmail doesn't blackmail Lena? How considerate of him.






For those who need a refresher on Seymour's blackmail. This is from a playthrough where Lena had good photoshoots with him, but refused the initial offer for the meeting. He had already blacklisted her. Meaning he always planned to blackmail her and only doesn't if Lena is agrees to meet with him.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Again, Seymour is not doing anything out of order.
"Blackballing" is a standard business practice, especially in the modeling/music industry.

People should stop virtue signaling and get back to reality.

 

[Turret]

Wow, so when the buisness man who prior to the meeting with Lena blacklisted her from her prior modelling agencies, doesn't need to resort to to outright blackmail doesn't blackmail Lena? How considerate of him.
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For those who need a refresher on Seymour's blackmail. This is from a playthrough where Lena had good photoshoots with him, but refused the initial offer for the meeting. He had already blacklisted her. Meaning he always planned to blackmail her and only doesn't if Lena is agrees to meet with him.

You fail in understanding that the various paths are differently outplaying realities. There are those where he blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not blackmail her. He has NOT always planned to blackmail her, because his preparations for the meeting are NOT always the same. He has stacked his cards if Lena and his relations are not good, but if their relations are well, there is no blackmail and neither was one prepared.

And I find your enacted exaspiration about the blackmail really cute! You have zero experience what a pool of sharks today´s business world is, it seems. What Seymour at his worst does is not in the least unusual, as sad as this situation is. He is not even bad in comparison to the methods of some very known real life companies!
I still remember the times when two business men in e.g. Hamburg or Stuttgart would shake hands to make a deal and kept to it, but unfortunately these times are over in most types of business.
Especially in music, show or modelling biz the contracts and the methods to get contracts are brutal and for newcomers often barely above slavery. Only once you are a known face the situation gets better.
As said, what Seymour does in ORS is not even in the "bad" category of what has happened in real life many times already.

 

[fatpussy123]

You fail in understanding that the various paths are differently outplaying realities. There are those where he blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not blackmail her. He has NOT always planned to blackmail her, because his preparations for the meeting are NOT always the same. He has stacked his cards if Lena and his relations are not good, but if their relations are well, there is no blackmail and neither was one prepared.

And I find your enacted exaspiration about the blackmail really cute! You have zero experience what a pool of sharks today´s business world is, it seems. What Seymour at his worst does is not in the least unusual, as sad as this situation is. He is not even bad in comparison to the methods of some very known real life companies!
I still remember the times when two business men in e.g. Hamburg or Stuttgart would shake hands to make a deal and kept to it, but unfortunately these times are over in most types of business.
Especially in music, show or modelling biz the contracts and the methods to get contracts are brutal and for newcomers often barely above slavery. Only once you are a known face the situation gets better.
As said, what Seymour does in ORS is not even in the "bad" category of what has happened in real life many times already.

This is not true, in ALL paths even the ones where Lena is completely simping for him he blacklists her before meeting with her. That means in ALL PATHS he intended to have have blackmail over Lena if she refused him.

 

[LoneVoyage]

Again, Seymour is not doing anything out of order.
"Blackballing" is a standard business practice, especially in the modeling/music industry.

People should stop virtue signaling and get back to reality.

True He is still a fuck up character.
Just because blackballing is still being done doesn't make it right.

You fail in understanding that the various paths are differently outplaying realities. There are those where he blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not blackmail her. He has NOT always planned to blackmail her, because his preparations for the meeting are NOT always the same. He has stacked his cards if Lena and his relations are not good, but if their relations are well, there is no blackmail and neither was one prepared.

No. If she refused his offer no matter what good relationship she has he is always blackmailing her. If you accept he offer but back down in the middle still he is blackmailing her.

 

[MF_DOOM]

This is ridiculous, it is not anything remotely like a "standard business practice." I have quite a bit of professional experience across a variety of industries and have a pretty extensive professional network.

Yes, there are scumbags in every industry, but these are the scumbags, not the "standard."

I dont care about your anecdotal "experience". What Seymour doing was done by people like Lyor Cohen, who was the president of Def Jam, Universal, Warner and now he is with YouTube and Spotify. Probably one of the most influential people in the music industry in the last 30 years.
I can give you at least 10 exemplars of musicians who went through this practice, as it's very common.

 

[LoneVoyage]

I dont care about your anecdotal "experience". What Seymour doing was done by people like Lyor Cohen, who was the president of Def Jam, Universal, Warner and now he is with YouTube and Spotify. Probably one of the most influential people in the music industry in the last 30 years.
I can give you at least 10 exemplars of musicians who went through this practice, as it's very common.

True. But sometimes they pay the consequences of their actions. Like Harvey weinstein for example.

 

[MF_DOOM]

True. But sometimes they pay the consequences of their actions. Like Harvey weinstein for example.

Harvey Weinstein is a sex offender unlike Seymour.

 

[BloodyMares]

For those who need a refresher on Seymour's blackmail. This is from a playthrough where Lena had good photoshoots with him, but refused the initial offer for the meeting. He had already blacklisted her. Meaning he always planned to blackmail her and only doesn't if Lena is agrees to meet with him.

Don't even need to go that far, really. First Lena gets fired from the restaurant (even if she slept with Robert to hold onto it a little longer), then Danny tells her he's busy and can't work with her, and the gallery owner takes back his offer and claims they've found a replacement and won't be needing Lena anymore. Before Seymour even calls her. So Seymour made her feel intentionally desperate before calling her and putting his "generous" offer on the table. Kinda hard to refuse "easy" money if you've been fired from everywhere at the same which Seymour counted on.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Those people who justify Seymour's behavior with the line "This is a common practice in real life", are you serious? Hello, just because it's "common practice" doesn't make blackmail a good thing, Seymour is still a bad and corrupt person.
This is the crappiest excuse ever.
I imagine if Stan bought AR-15 and started mass shooting because the girls were ignoring him, you would say: "Nothing terrible happened, there is nothing wrong with it. Because mass shootings happen in real life, this is a common practice."

 

[fatpussy123]

I dont care about your anecdotal "experience". What Seymour doing was done by people like Lyor Cohen, who was the president of Def Jam, Universal, Warner and now he is with YouTube and Spotify. Probably one of the most influential people in the music industry in the last 30 years.
I can give you at least 10 exemplars of musicians who went through this practice, as it's very common.

You say you don't care about his anecdotal experience, but then procede to use anecdotes to back up your point. Showing examples of blackmail happening isn't enough to prove that it is the standard.

Even so, if it was the standard, which it's not, that doesn't change the fact that it is still blackmail, which is both illegal and morally wrong.

I get that you find Seymour's scenes hot and so you feel the need to defend his honour, but that isn't a good reason to justify blackmail.

 

[BloodyMares]

Harvey Weinstein is a sex offender unlike Seymour.

Seymour is doing exactly the same thing Weinstein has been doing. According to Weinstein, he hasn't abused a single girl, they willingly decided to sleep with him for career advancement, he "just" blackmailed them by saying their career will be dead on arrival if they walk out on him and don't do sexual favors for him. What exactly is Seymour doing with Lena if not asking sexual favors of her? Voyeurism is also a sexual activity, even Seymour agrees with it. "All of the modeling is sexual in nature, camera is merely a pretense". So he's making Lena do a sexual show for his twisted pleasure, saying she won't be hired by anyone if she doesn't do it.

 

[evilkitty97]

The thing is, there is not always blackmail involved. Especially if Lena and Seymour get off to a good start, he is far more a simp for her. And to be blunt, it is not nice, but today even the "blackmail" contract is not unusual in various businesses. Look e.g. into the music biz where adhesive contracts (and worse than the one Seymour gives out) are completely normal. That Seymour wants to bind the raw diamond he found in Lena is not unusual in business.
And unlike some real-life companies we could name, Seymour only takes the gloves off and resorts to blackmail if the Lena situation goes completely off the rails for him. Which does happen only under specific circumstances.

Face it, the Seymour as of chapter 10.3 is hardly a bad guy, just a shrewd business man, he is not half as rotten as the antagonists of GGGB.

Exactly my man, you seem like an entrepreneur yourself.
"The raw diamond in Lena" is the bomb and you just delivered it.

Monopoly has always been the ultimate goal of businessmen. You wanna own something not because you are greedy or power hungry like actual villains are, but because you seek stability. It is the one thing every businessmen dreams of everyday.

You get to worry less about competitors due to potential acquisitions that would take your asset away from you.
The blackmails were insurance, so that Lena never gets tempted from "better" offers from others.
Basically Seymour was establishing loyalty and a shrewd trust.


I understand some of the views against it. Lena getting conquered and owned by a nasty old man who looks like Smeagol is quite awful. Tyrannical because he is owning her almost as if he is crazy about her. But that is normal for businessmen who found a gold mine that they dont want to share.

And he is indeed looking like he wants her more than just a moneymaker. There was clearly BDSM going on with them, some sort of 50 shades of bull vibe that might turn her into his sex slave.
Now that would suck, I dont want that either.

Though I wish Seymour would indeed get competitors over her and turn the whole half of the game into some sort of corporate war. Its up to Lena and Ian whether to work together or get help from others, make deals, alliances and enemies. Cindy could help, or she becomes a rival in the business, Ian(or Lena, lesbian content) could win her back etc.

Ultimately, whoever gets a piece of Lena's ass more, wins.
Literally, gets a piece of it. Stan is starting, and my bet is on him to win the corporate war.
Stan solos everyone.

Now THAT, is a plot.

 

[BloodyMares]

Lena is not comfortable posing without a camera and he doesn't give her a choice in the matter. He tells her that by signing the contract she "agreed" to pose for him, pretending not to know the difference between modeling (implies the manufacture of the artistic product or promotion of the physical product) and performing a strip / sex show (which he tells Lena to do).

 

[Turret]

This is not true, in ALL paths even the ones where Lena is completely simping for him he blacklists her before meeting with her. That means in ALL PATHS he intended to have have blackmail over Lena if she refused him.

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Lena is not comfortable posing without a camera and he doesn't give her a choice in the matter. He tells her that by signing the contract she "agreed" to pose for him, pretending not to know the difference between modeling (implies the manufacture of the artistic product or promotion of the physical product) and performing a strip / sex show (which he tells Lena to do).

Well, it's her problem she signed a legally binding contract without representation. How is that blackmail?

 

[fatpussy123]

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

In every reality he blacklists her and goes into the meeting with the intention to blackmail her. He's a bad person in the same way a guy who goes on a date with a girl with the intention to rape if she refuses sex with him is. Yes he doesn't blackmail Lena in some paths, but he always has the intention to. If he always has intention to that makes him a bad person, he might not be criminally liable, but that was never the point. The first few posts were making the case that he is the bad guy in the story, which he is.

 

[BloodyMares]

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

He may not always blackmail Lena but he always blacklists Lena, thus Danny shutting her off, the Gallery guy refusing to give her more gigs, and the restaurant firing her. That happens on every path and Seymour is behind it. That may not be blackmail but it's emotional and financial manipulation for one purpose: make the victim the most vulnerable and more likely to accept the new reality. This type of behavior is very common with cults and its leaders preying on those who are most vulnerable, socially isolated, and unlikely to seek help (or get it if they do seek it).

 

[BloodyMares]

Well, it's her problem she signed a legally binding contract without representation. How is that blackmail?

"Modeling" doesn't legally bind her to be treated like an escort. She is legally free not to proceed unless there's a camera and there will be the artistic product in the end. Yet he blackmails her that if she keeps resisting, their contract will be considered broken and she'll lose all of the jobs and won't be compensated for her time, thus blackmailing her. Don't have to be a lawyer to win this case in court, Seymour did use the term "modeling" explicitly, he can't reimagine the term to fit his needs and win the case. He'd lose because of his ignorance. If he was smarter, he'd use the term "performing" which doesn't require a camera, only the audience (even if it's one person).

 

[MF_DOOM]

"Modeling" doesn't legally bind her to be treated like an escort. She is legally free not to proceed unless there's a camera and there will be the artistic product in the end. Yet he blackmails her that if she keeps resisting, their contract will be considered broken and she'll lose all of the jobs and won't be compensated for her time, thus blackmailing her. Don't have to be a lawyer to win this case in court, Seymour did use the term "modeling" explicitly, he can't reimagine the term to fit his needs and win the case. He'd lose because of his ignorance. If he was smarter, he'd use the term "performing" which doesn't require a camera, only the audience (even if it's one person).

Modeling is not exclusive to a camera, what about cat walks? Painting? Sculpting? I bet I could think of some more.