VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[MF_DOOM]

True. But sometimes they pay the consequences of their actions. Like Harvey weinstein for example.

Harvey Weinstein is a sex offender unlike Seymour.

 

[BloodyMares]

For those who need a refresher on Seymour's blackmail. This is from a playthrough where Lena had good photoshoots with him, but refused the initial offer for the meeting. He had already blacklisted her. Meaning he always planned to blackmail her and only doesn't if Lena is agrees to meet with him.

Don't even need to go that far, really. First Lena gets fired from the restaurant (even if she slept with Robert to hold onto it a little longer), then Danny tells her he's busy and can't work with her, and the gallery owner takes back his offer and claims they've found a replacement and won't be needing Lena anymore. Before Seymour even calls her. So Seymour made her feel intentionally desperate before calling her and putting his "generous" offer on the table. Kinda hard to refuse "easy" money if you've been fired from everywhere at the same which Seymour counted on.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Those people who justify Seymour's behavior with the line "This is a common practice in real life", are you serious? Hello, just because it's "common practice" doesn't make blackmail a good thing, Seymour is still a bad and corrupt person.
This is the crappiest excuse ever.
I imagine if Stan bought AR-15 and started mass shooting because the girls were ignoring him, you would say: "Nothing terrible happened, there is nothing wrong with it. Because mass shootings happen in real life, this is a common practice."

 

[fatpussy123]

I dont care about your anecdotal "experience". What Seymour doing was done by people like Lyor Cohen, who was the president of Def Jam, Universal, Warner and now he is with YouTube and Spotify. Probably one of the most influential people in the music industry in the last 30 years.
I can give you at least 10 exemplars of musicians who went through this practice, as it's very common.

You say you don't care about his anecdotal experience, but then procede to use anecdotes to back up your point. Showing examples of blackmail happening isn't enough to prove that it is the standard.

Even so, if it was the standard, which it's not, that doesn't change the fact that it is still blackmail, which is both illegal and morally wrong.

I get that you find Seymour's scenes hot and so you feel the need to defend his honour, but that isn't a good reason to justify blackmail.

 

[BloodyMares]

Harvey Weinstein is a sex offender unlike Seymour.

Seymour is doing exactly the same thing Weinstein has been doing. According to Weinstein, he hasn't abused a single girl, they willingly decided to sleep with him for career advancement, he "just" blackmailed them by saying their career will be dead on arrival if they walk out on him and don't do sexual favors for him. What exactly is Seymour doing with Lena if not asking sexual favors of her? Voyeurism is also a sexual activity, even Seymour agrees with it. "All of the modeling is sexual in nature, camera is merely a pretense". So he's making Lena do a sexual show for his twisted pleasure, saying she won't be hired by anyone if she doesn't do it.

 

[evilkitty97]

The thing is, there is not always blackmail involved. Especially if Lena and Seymour get off to a good start, he is far more a simp for her. And to be blunt, it is not nice, but today even the "blackmail" contract is not unusual in various businesses. Look e.g. into the music biz where adhesive contracts (and worse than the one Seymour gives out) are completely normal. That Seymour wants to bind the raw diamond he found in Lena is not unusual in business.
And unlike some real-life companies we could name, Seymour only takes the gloves off and resorts to blackmail if the Lena situation goes completely off the rails for him. Which does happen only under specific circumstances.

Face it, the Seymour as of chapter 10.3 is hardly a bad guy, just a shrewd business man, he is not half as rotten as the antagonists of GGGB.

Exactly my man, you seem like an entrepreneur yourself.
"The raw diamond in Lena" is the bomb and you just delivered it.

Monopoly has always been the ultimate goal of businessmen. You wanna own something not because you are greedy or power hungry like actual villains are, but because you seek stability. It is the one thing every businessmen dreams of everyday.

You get to worry less about competitors due to potential acquisitions that would take your asset away from you.
The blackmails were insurance, so that Lena never gets tempted from "better" offers from others.
Basically Seymour was establishing loyalty and a shrewd trust.


I understand some of the views against it. Lena getting conquered and owned by a nasty old man who looks like Smeagol is quite awful. Tyrannical because he is owning her almost as if he is crazy about her. But that is normal for businessmen who found a gold mine that they dont want to share.

And he is indeed looking like he wants her more than just a moneymaker. There was clearly BDSM going on with them, some sort of 50 shades of bull vibe that might turn her into his sex slave.
Now that would suck, I dont want that either.

Though I wish Seymour would indeed get competitors over her and turn the whole half of the game into some sort of corporate war. Its up to Lena and Ian whether to work together or get help from others, make deals, alliances and enemies. Cindy could help, or she becomes a rival in the business, Ian(or Lena, lesbian content) could win her back etc.

Ultimately, whoever gets a piece of Lena's ass more, wins.
Literally, gets a piece of it. Stan is starting, and my bet is on him to win the corporate war.
Stan solos everyone.

Now THAT, is a plot.

 

[BloodyMares]

Lena is not comfortable posing without a camera and he doesn't give her a choice in the matter. He tells her that by signing the contract she "agreed" to pose for him, pretending not to know the difference between modeling (implies the manufacture of the artistic product or promotion of the physical product) and performing a strip / sex show (which he tells Lena to do).

 

[Turret]

This is not true, in ALL paths even the ones where Lena is completely simping for him he blacklists her before meeting with her. That means in ALL PATHS he intended to have have blackmail over Lena if she refused him.

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Lena is not comfortable posing without a camera and he doesn't give her a choice in the matter. He tells her that by signing the contract she "agreed" to pose for him, pretending not to know the difference between modeling (implies the manufacture of the artistic product or promotion of the physical product) and performing a strip / sex show (which he tells Lena to do).

Well, it's her problem she signed a legally binding contract without representation. How is that blackmail?

 

[fatpussy123]

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

In every reality he blacklists her and goes into the meeting with the intention to blackmail her. He's a bad person in the same way a guy who goes on a date with a girl with the intention to rape if she refuses sex with him is. Yes he doesn't blackmail Lena in some paths, but he always has the intention to. If he always has intention to that makes him a bad person, he might not be criminally liable, but that was never the point. The first few posts were making the case that he is the bad guy in the story, which he is.

 

[BloodyMares]

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

He may not always blackmail Lena but he always blacklists Lena, thus Danny shutting her off, the Gallery guy refusing to give her more gigs, and the restaurant firing her. That happens on every path and Seymour is behind it. That may not be blackmail but it's emotional and financial manipulation for one purpose: make the victim the most vulnerable and more likely to accept the new reality. This type of behavior is very common with cults and its leaders preying on those who are most vulnerable, socially isolated, and unlikely to seek help (or get it if they do seek it).

 

[BloodyMares]

Well, it's her problem she signed a legally binding contract without representation. How is that blackmail?

"Modeling" doesn't legally bind her to be treated like an escort. She is legally free not to proceed unless there's a camera and there will be the artistic product in the end. Yet he blackmails her that if she keeps resisting, their contract will be considered broken and she'll lose all of the jobs and won't be compensated for her time, thus blackmailing her. Don't have to be a lawyer to win this case in court, Seymour did use the term "modeling" explicitly, he can't reimagine the term to fit his needs and win the case. He'd lose because of his ignorance. If he was smarter, he'd use the term "performing" which doesn't require a camera, only the audience (even if it's one person).

 

[MF_DOOM]

"Modeling" doesn't legally bind her to be treated like an escort. She is legally free not to proceed unless there's a camera and there will be the artistic product in the end. Yet he blackmails her that if she keeps resisting, their contract will be considered broken and she'll lose all of the jobs and won't be compensated for her time, thus blackmailing her. Don't have to be a lawyer to win this case in court, Seymour did use the term "modeling" explicitly, he can't reimagine the term to fit his needs and win the case. He'd lose because of his ignorance. If he was smarter, he'd use the term "performing" which doesn't require a camera, only the audience (even if it's one person).

Modeling is not exclusive to a camera, what about cat walks? Painting? Sculpting? I bet I could think of some more.

 

[BloodyMares]

Modeling is not exclusive to a camera, what about cat walks? Painting? Sculpting? I bet I could think of some more.

Neither of those elements are present during Lena's posing session with Seymour. If there's no camera, there'd need to be a canvas. If there's no canvas, then materials for sculpting which Seymour does none of.

Cat-walks promote the product (clothing / jewelry / anything else) to a buyer. Seymour is not a party interested in buying anything Lena is wearing. And even if he would be, the legally-binding document should specify the category of the items that would be promoted. If, say, it's the shoes and accessories (that he makes Lena wear), then they would have to be listed in the contract. And there would need to be an interested buyer if it's a private viewing like an auction, or there would need to be a public promotional event where any attendant gets to see the product on the model. Plus there would need to be a contract with a manufacturer / seller of the item (in this case the shoes).

So, Lena doesn't create anything artistic, nor does she promote anything to anybody because there's no contract with any of the company asking Seymour to promote their items (to himself?). Any lawyer would be able to prove it as at least a sexual exploitation / fraud if not an outright abuse.

 

[mommysboiii]

guys guys i think seymour is the antagonist to and obiously not a good guy but he is not real calm down there is nothing to disprove or justify seymour dosent exist !!!

and he gives the story good tension and twist potential and a worthy rival next to axel

 

[fatpussy123]

guys guys i think seymour is the antagonist to and obiously not a good guy but he is not real calm down there is nothing to disprove or justify seymour dosent exist !!!

and he gives the story good tension and twist potential and a worthy rival next to axel

Yep. In the context of the game he is a bad person, but his scenes are also hot in a sub Lena run. Similar in that regard to Axel I guess.

 

[dolfe67]

Debate about if Seymour is a good guy or not is funny, but we can find funnier subjects. Let's talk again about cucking Ian

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Debate about if Seymour is a good guy or not is funny, but we can find funnier subjects. Let's talk again about cucking Ian

 

[MF_DOOM]

If only there's an option to play songs in the café. The game couldn't possibly give us that scenario.

Very common ≠ ethical and good, but someone else has beaten me to the punch.

Your clowning managed to keep this thread from being a cuck for a while, so thank you for your service.

Also, Seymour is a good guy for cucking Ian.

 

[Joshy92]

Debate about if Seymour is a good guy or not is funny, but we can find funnier subjects. Let's talk again about cucking Ian

Don't worry My Ian will be mega cucked
And he will like it by golly