alexferno

Newbie
Sep 13, 2021
78
362
Yea, fair point. But i personaly think that ruined bromance even in ntr aren't cool at all.
I respectfully disagree. Everyone has different tastes, that's why the game allows the players to have the freedom of choice to play the way they want to.
Depending on your choices, Jeremy is a fairly good friend to Ian. Jeremy remains loyal to him, tries to be encouraging and helps him go after Lena. Almost all content is avoidable, you just have to pick the right choices.
 
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BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,035
And imagine if she end up with Jeremy or even Axel :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: , cuz if i remember, Gillian cheat on Ian, so i dont think that Ian want to be with her again
Meh, I doubt Ian would be hurt as badly if Gillian got to cheat on him again. Like, fool me once, what else is new. What is interesting is what kind of relationship with her Ian would have after that. Break up with her for good this time? Cheat on her as well to make things "even"? Humiliate her with Lena's help? Propose an open relationship? Or resign himself to being a stag in the relationship with a playful cheating vixen that he can't control but can't stop loving?
 

BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,035
If we play as a seemingly good girl Lena who falls in love with a loyal loving Ian and commits to a relationship with him, but at the same time struggles to suppress her lustful fantasies, cheating with Jeremy behind Ian's back would be the ultimate sin
True, however I doubt it's a mirror to Ian's relationship with Cindy. What makes it such a struggle for Ian is because he's actually friends with Cindy. She's not only Wade's sexy gf, that alone would make his lust easy to deal with. What sells his struggle is the conflict of whether to respect Wade and Cindy's relationship and be a good friend to Wade (ironically dooming their relationship because he can't help them if he stays passive), or be a good friend for Cindy even if it makes him fall for her, making it harder and harder to contain his feelings/lust for her.

I don't feel this level of temptation between Lena and Jeremy, because her sole focus of her attraction seems to be his dick. It's not like they become friendlier and she feels any closer to him as a person, or that Jeremy flirts with her all the time, making her feel good about herself. What's happening is she herself keeps fanning the flames by pursuing her obsession with purposeful morally questionable actions such as spying on Louise, hacking her phone or performing a dare during Ivy's game, then initiating sexting with him, using the opportunity when Jeremy texted to check up on her. Because of all that, it doesn't feel like Lena suffers from some type of inner conflict or has guilty conscience because she constantly chooses to close in on him, willing to throw both her friendship with Louise and her newfound love for Ian under the bus (in fact, she never seems to think about them at the moment) for something as meaningless and animalistic as sex with a big black dick. Like, she could easily substitute Jeremy with Marcel, and it wouldn't be anywhere as toxic as her weird purposefully instigated fixation on Jeremy. If it was GGGB 2, Jeremy would clearly be a Bad Path for Lena, because every action would reward Lena with Bad points. Ian's attraction to Cindy on the other hand is more like Ashley's dilemma with Dave (available as both Bad seduction and Good crush).

TL;DR - Ian's forbidden fruit is harder to resist due to all the complex feelings involved that couldn't be substituted by some other random sexy blonde (like Jessica) and due to all the pressure both from Wade (to help with their relationship and keep an eye on his gf for her) and Cindy (to be a good friend for her) while Lena's forbidden fruit is artificial and mainly motivated by her desire to be an alpha bitch which could be easily satisfied with any other available BBC.
 
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alexferno

Newbie
Sep 13, 2021
78
362
True, however I doubt it's a mirror to Ian's relationship with Cindy. What makes it such a struggle for Ian is because he's actually friends with Cindy. She's not only Wade's sexy gf, that alone would make his lust easy to deal with. What sells his struggle is the conflict of whether to respect Wade and Cindy's relationship and be a good friend to Wade (ironically dooming their relationship because he can't help them if he stays passive), or be a good friend for Cindy even if it makes him fall for her, making it harder and harder to contain his feelings/lust for her.

I don't feel this level of temptation between Lena and Jeremy, because her sole focus of her attraction seems to be his dick. It's not like they become friendlier and she feels any closer to him as a person, or that Jeremy flirts with her all the time, making her feel good about herself. What's happening is she herself keeps fanning the flames by pursuing her obsession with purposeful morally questionable actions such as spying on Louise, hacking her phone or performing a dare during Ivy's game, then initiating sexting with him, using the opportunity when Jeremy texted to check up on her. Because of all that, it doesn't feel like Lena suffers from some type of inner conflict or has guilty conscience because she constantly chooses to close in on him, willing to throw both her friendship with Louise and her newfound love for Ian under the bus (in fact, she never seems to think about them at the moment) for something as meaningless and animalistic as sex with a big black dick. Like, she could easily substitute Jeremy with Marcel, and it wouldn't be anywhere as toxic as her weird purposefully instigated fixation on Jeremy. If it was GGGB 2, Jeremy would clearly be a Bad Path for Lena, because every action would reward Lena with Bad points. Ian's attraction to Cindy on the other hand is more like Ashley's dilemma with Dave (available as both Bad seduction and Good crush).

TL;DR - Ian's forbidden fruit is harder to resist due to all the complex feelings involved that couldn't be substituted by some other random sexy blonde (like Jessica) and due to all the pressure both from Wade (to help with their relationship and keep an eye on his gf for her) and Cindy (to be a good friend for her) while Lena's forbidden fruit is artificial and mainly motivated by her desire to be an alpha bitch which could be easily satisfied with any other available BBC.
I don't think the Lena x Jeremy cheating scenario is a mirror to Ian x Cindy relationship, but they have some points in common.
The player only controls Ian and Lena's actions, you can't control their feelings. Depending on your choices, Lena suffers from inner conflict and feelings of guilt. You can see it multiple times throughout the story:
"I knew what I was doing was wrong. I was violating Louise's utmost privacy... yet I couldn't make myself look away."
"I had been wise to trust my instincts there. If I had been caught..."
"I couldn't have looked Louise in the eye anymore!"

"My heart was pounding in my chest. I knew it was wrong, but I had to check it out..."
"What the hell am I doing? This is... This is exactly what Louise tries to accuse Stan of."
"I'm violating her privacy, looking at her boyfriend's cock..."

"I was starting to feel something for Ian. Something real."
"And yet I had just given one of his best friends a handjob... I doubted he'd like to know that."

"But what about Louise? How will she take it?"
"She was really drunk last night... We all were."
"Maybe she will hate what happened when she reflects on it... Maybe she'll hate me."

"Maybe it was for the best... I was letting my lustful instincts take over, and that was leading me down a very reprehensible path..."
"However, those instincts had been awakened and now I felt like a kid whose candy just got stolen."

"I shouldn't have kept flirting with Jeremy through text messages, but..."
"I wasn't the only one pushing this situation, was I?"

"Lust was pushing back my feelings for Ian, making me ignore that I was betraying them."

"Feelings of guilt were starting to poke my consciousness, but lust and adrenaline were still running through my body, covering them up."
"My pulse was starting to race just thinking about what we did on Louise's bed..."
It's true that Lena's attraction to Jeremy is purely sexual, but we can't ignore the underlying context. Jeremy can't be replaced by a random character. For those who like cheating and corruption, cheating on Ian with a random guy is pretty boring/entry-level when compared to cheating on him with one of his best friends (who happens to be in a relationship with one of Lena's friends and roommates), which is far more kinky.
 
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Nov 15, 2020
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Not allowing Lena to cheat on Ian with Jeremy would be a huge missed opportunity.
Look at Cindy's route. Cindy is the most popular female NPC, she's attractive and her scenes are hot. But her route wouldn't be as spicy if she wasn't Wade's girlfriend. This is part of what makes her so popular and tempting. She's Ian's forbidden fruit.
Cheating, corruption and BBC are popular kinks. Jeremy is Ian's friend and Louise's "boyfriend". He's also the most popular male NPC.
If we play as a seemingly good girl Lena who falls in love with a loyal loving Ian and commits to a relationship with him, but at the same time struggles to suppress her lustful fantasies, cheating with Jeremy behind Ian's back would be the ultimate sin :devilish:
I agree it would be a missed opportunity, but I see how it might be necessary to prevent all the paths from spiralling out of control. Still I think it would be fairly easy to keep the mutual lust between Lena and Jeremy alive for a while without anything happening between them, and then let them act on those desires later instead. They’ve still got nudes of each other on their phones, and they’re probably going to have to talk more about what happened between them, now that it’s even more important for Lena that Ian doesn’t find out. From there they can start to push the limits of what’s acceptable behaviour, just as they’ve already done in the past.
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,632
14,982
Everyone kept saying Gillian was never going to be put in the game but now this raises a lot of questions
People are saying Gillian is Mike's gf, but I'm not too sure. It could be kinda interesting I guess. That would mean Mike cucked Ian in the past, and then cucks him with Lena too... lol. It's just that Mike doesn't have much development right now, and he seems like a "decent" dude. I mean, he is cheating on his GF and shit, but it seems more like a mutual lust driven affair rather than a super dominator taking what he wants.

I am team Axel when it comes to cucking Ian lol. Cindy, Lena, Cherry already have paths pointing towards Axel. Might as well throw Gillian in there :ROFLMAO:.
 

John Doe Jr.

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2017
1,297
2,620
People are saying Gillian is Mike's gf, but I'm not too sure. It could be kinda interesting I guess. That would mean Mike cucked Ian in the past, and then cucks him with Lena too... lol. It's just that Mike doesn't have much development right now, and he seems like a "decent" dude. I mean, he is cheating on his GF and shit, but it seems more like a mutual lust driven affair rather than a super dominator taking what he wants.

I am team Axel when it comes to cucking Ian lol. Cindy, Lena, Cherry already have paths pointing towards Axel. Might as well throw Gillian in there :ROFLMAO:.
It being Mike makes the most sense to me tbh
 

Lndlordd

Member
Apr 27, 2017
158
167
What's the bare minimum u must do to have a choice to turn down Seymore towards the end....I mean, I know if we shut him down earlier we will have that choice, but how far can u go along before u loose that choice??
 

CoalPhelps

Active Member
Aug 19, 2018
550
1,767
What's the bare minimum u must do to have a choice to turn down Seymore towards the end....I mean, I know if we shut him down earlier we will have that choice, but how far can u go along before u loose that choice??
When he schedules a second photo shoot, you have to choose "I don't mind working with him" and then you can fully cooperate with him, but refuse the contract.
 

BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,035
The player only controls Ian and Lena's actions, you can't control their feelings. Depending on your choices, Lena suffers from inner conflict and feelings of guilt. You can see it multiple times throughout the story:
That is true, however those feelings don't come across as genuine feelings of Lena, but rather a desperate attempt to convince herself that she's not a bad person so she must feel guilty (when she totally didn't when she was making a decision). But if she's guilty, why does she keep repeatedly doing the same thing over and over, thus feeling more guilty? If a person consciously keeps doing a bad thing (if she thinks about them, she's conscious of them and has agency to stop herself), even if they feel guilty, they kinda become a bad person because they change their actions shape their personality. Lena becomes a bad girlfriend to Ian, and a bad friend to Louise. I guess my question is, if Lena understands that she's doing those bad things behind Louise and Ian, can she really claim that she cares about them at this point? It's just in my experience, people who are not diagnosed with some kind of disorder or mental handicap, don't keep doing a really shitty thing if they really don't have a good excuse or are motivated by a strong emotion (lust is not that). You don't keep kicking your friend in the back, and then ask how they're doing if you intend to keep kicking them. That's behavior of a psychopath. Usually when you treat your loved ones badly, it's because something irritates you about them, and you want to act out, which means your relationship becomes worse with them. It made sense for Ashley to want to bully Eva if they weren't friends anymore. And at this point it would make sense for Lena to bully Louise or treat her like shit out of her resentment caused by her lust for Jeremy (she constantly refers that she was envious that Louise got to enjoy his dick all the time). But she does the opposite which makes Lena's actions seem like they happen in a bubble and have no consequence for her personal moral corruption. She's not only hypocritical in this sense, she's almost bipolar or borderline, because her actions and thoughts don't align. It's like Lena the "Louise's Friend" and Lena the "Jeremy's Slut" are completely different people that take control based on whether Lena feels horny at the moment or not.


It's true that Lena's attraction to Jeremy is purely sexual, but we can't ignore the underlying context. Jeremy can't be replaced by a random character. For those who like cheating and corruption, cheating on Ian with a random guy is pretty boring/entry-level when compared to cheating on him with one of his best friends (who happens to be in a relationship with one of Lena's friends and roommates), which is far more kinky.
You summarized it perfectly, but let's look at what you said. The context is that the players want to be naughty. "Those who like cheating and corruption" which Lena is none of those things. Nothing in Lena's personality would make her so weak to fall for some convenient black dick and betray her fairly close friend while somewhat remembering that she's actually supposed to be in love with Ian. There's a direct conflict between what the player wants Lena to do and who Lena is as a character (not a blank slate with a baggage). Players corrupting Lena results in such a mess where Lena can easily participate in all debauchery, then have obligatory guilty feelings that feel fake given what she's done, and then suddenly act surprised and outraged whenever someone does remotely similar but she ends up being on the receiving end of those actions. Blaming Ian for dishonesty but easily keeping secrets from him, blaming Ivy for doing business with Axel behind her back but then doing something way worse with Louise's boyfriend.

One path however avoids these problems. Let's look at Mike for example. It is a very controversial path due to Lena's background trauma from cheating, but one can sort of understand how not knowing Mike's girlfriend personally somehow makes it okay in Lena's mind to be the other girl, because she's not the one being hurt in this scenario and it's thrilling for her to be the seductress and be the one with power in a relationship for a change. The difference however, is that Lena in this path enjoys doing a bad thing, she barely even thinks about Mike's girlfriend, disrespects her during sex with him, so not having guilty thoughts about being naughty helps sell this path as believable. Lena is yet to face reality of her actions. While she might act like a thirsty bitch, in Lena's mind she's not responsible for Mike playing along.

Being involved with Jeremy on the other hand is a separate can of worms that the quotes you mentioned demonstrate very well. Most of them are spoken by Lena in conditions where she catches herself doing a bad thing, acknowledges that it's bad, and ends up doing even a worse thing just because... she's horny? Why does Jeremy in particular make her this stupid horny, and why is it so hard for her to fight that lust or deal with that in healthier ways? Such behavior makes Lena feel very shallow, except she's anything but shallow in the rest of the game, so, what person Lena really is? The traitorous cock-hungry bimbo or the intelligent and empathetic person who hates injustice? Perhaps the problem is that the game wants to sell the fantasy of Lena seducing Jeremy without actually considering that it goes against Lena's principles? In my opinion, it would make more sense if Jeremy was the one who initiated flirting with Lena, and Lena would feel rush of flirting back, acting on her desire even when she originally didn't plan for it. That would make it easier to swallow that she can both want to fuck Jeremy and feel sorry for Louise. But because she hunts for Jeremy, seduces him with clear intent, then it's really hard to swallow that Lena is really such a disgusting individual with absolutely zero self-awareness or defined moral standing.

In GGGB, player's influence on Ashley was tracked via Bad points. She could become a murderous psychopath, and somehow it would still be "logical", because a murderous psychopath wouldn't feel bad about cheating on her dear boyfriend or care that her ex-BFF committed suicide (Oh no! Anyway...). Tracking Ashley's morality helped justify Ashley's crazy actions and prevent her from contradicting herself with sudden Holier-Than-Thou mood swings. If the players expect a similar kind of agency and want to stretch Lena's character as far away from her starting point as possible, then the game should track that character development.

This game either needs to track player's impact on Lena's personality with something other than "posh" variable or sacrifice agency by not letting Lena act outside of her character, or actually writing that behavior in a more plausible way so it fits all Lenas at the same time. Even a hidden "bad" stat would be appropriate in this sense, because it would help differentiate between Good Lena (never compromised her morality or redeemed herself) and Bad Lena (backstabbing horny slut who is not jealous anymore). And the funny thing is, there is such hidden variable which is relationship with Lola. But it's never checked in the game for anything when it could have indicated Lena's moral corruption the lower relationship with Lola dropped (she becomes careless of Lola's needs because her mind is in the gutter all the time).

All that said, while it might sound like I'm shitting on Eva's storytelling, I understand that the scenes are written first, and the plot is added later to fit those scenes, and not every scene acknowledges every possible way for the player to control Ian or Lena (plot-holes and inconsistencies become regular), and unfortunately the game is so big that you can't dedicate enough time to each storyline and consider each variation of Ian/Lena because the players want to get the story going and see more sexy scenes.
 
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