jamdan

Forum Fanatic
Sep 28, 2018
4,426
24,145
Milking accusations for this dev make no sense. She has already completed one game, released 9 updates of a somehow even more complex and higher quality game, the last one being a few months ago. And yet people say she is milking because... reasons.

If she is milking, all the other big developers who release once or twice a year are milking too.
 

_Zebra_

Member
Jun 24, 2017
198
831
You did it again. The game is about the players following at least 2 paths, LEna and Ian.
This is not a one path game, never was.
This game gets boring with just one path - wham + bam+ thank you ma”am end of game.

Need I remind you Lena is swarmen by men all over the place? She has no challenge.
The only challenge is realistically Ian:
-on his path, you could realistically end up with nobody unless you are aggressive with the girls.


Lena could just jump on any number of shlongs at any given time and game over.
Unless you wanna dumb her down, hummiliate her and turn her into meat for all the guys to beat to.
Your choice.
Ok, I will try one more time and I will start by quoting you: "You did it again." You clearly don't understand what I am trying to say. I was curious to see how many of you use only one save when you play the game. Why? Because I was wondering how many people would be affected if the chapters would be cut in half in scope, and instead of getting a scene with character X in every chapter you would get one every other chapter, or once every 3 chapters. It was a simple attempt to move the conversation in a different direction.

So no, you don't have 2 paths, you have only one. When you start a game, at the end you have only one save, only one playthrough. I never stated that this was just a play it once type of game and even after I said that I had 7 saves at one point you try to explain to me how the game works and that I need to play it multiple times.
 
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May 16, 2018
61
215
Def milking. Each update takes like 4-5 months and they said they've been trying to figure out the story every week. Hire a writer maybe if youre struggling that hard. When I first heard of this game when they released the last update I was about to support on patreon because the quality was so good, but checked the work ethic, and time between release and how long it took her to even release the remaster. Dev should be ashamed of themselves for exploiting the people who support them.
 

BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,035
Def milking. Each update takes like 4-5 months and they said they've been trying to figure out the story every week. Hire a writer maybe if youre struggling that hard.
Wow, you're right! George RR Martin needs to hire Stephen King to finish the Song of Ice and Fire for him in a couple of months... Who cares if King has his own books to write...
 

DatBoit

Member
Dec 2, 2018
270
1,208
My two cents are the following. If you want to criticise Eva for the development of ORS, you should criticise her for the decisions she has made regarding the scope of the game - not for milking her patrons, or for purposefully slowing down the release of new chapters.

While the game certainly takes much longer to develop, it is not like the updates don't come with any additional content, that corresponds to the additional time taken. Generally, the average chapter of ORS contains more scenes and more images than the average episode of GGGB, so the additional development is clearly used to pack more into each update. Therefore, I don't think that you can say that she is milking her patrons, as that would mean the updates are constantly being delayed without any output to show for it.

Instead, it is abundantly clear to me that the reason why this game takes so long to develop nowadays, is because she has taken on twice the amount of work. Assuming that you want to keep the content per MC roughly the same as in GGGB, adding an additional MC immediately implies that you would need to double the work you do, even if you wouldn't intertwine their stories at all. However, their stories are intertwined, which means that you must now consider not only how each MC relates to their own closest group of characters, but also how each MC relates to the other MC's closest group of characters. Naturally, this makes the game increasingly complicated to develop, with longer times between updates as a consequence.

Both of these are caused by Eva herself, though, which makes me less sympathetic to her development struggles, and less accepting of the increased development time. Literally anyone could have predicated that this was going to happen when she announced that the game was going to have to MCs, which makes you wonder how Eva decided to move forward with that idea. Likely, all of the problems could have been solved by just keeping the scope at a reasonable level, something that Eva is solely responsible for. For this, I think you have every right to criticise her, and express dissatisfaction at how long the game is taking to develop.

Further, the development tendencies aren't great either. Looking back, the game was actually released relatively frequently for the first five (or so) chapters, after which it has slowed down tremendously. It feels as if every status update contains some comment about how the week wasn't as productive as she would have liked, or how she is struggling with the writing. Clearly, this is a worrying trend, because it suggest that the development is unlikely to speed up, and that, if anything, it will probably slow down, which is once again a consequence of the decisions that she has made regarding the cope of the game.

Personally, I also feel quite annoyed with how Eva seems to have completely accepted that this is now a game that takes five months to develop, and is making no effort to find ways to reduce this time. As long as this doesn't impact her patron numbers, she isn't really incentivized to do so either, which adds to the impression that this game is more likely to slow down in development, rather than speed up, and that Eva really hasn't managed this in the best way possible.

Overall, then, I think that you can criticise Eva for several things when it comes to the development of ORS. Milking, is not one of them. Mismanaging the scope and development, though, is something that I do think Eva has made herself guilty of. It is just unfortunate that it has come to this, because at the end of the day, we all just want as many updates as possible. And while five months can be a huge update for a 3D game, a 2D game does't really compare in this regard...
 

patachoucs

Member
Mar 26, 2020
409
1,508
My two cents are the following. If you want to criticise Eva for the development of ORS, you should criticise her for the decisions she has made regarding the scope of the game - not for milking her patrons, or for purposefully slowing down the release of new chapters.

While the game certainly takes much longer to develop, it is not like the updates don't come with any additional content, that corresponds to the additional time taken. Generally, the average chapter of ORS contains more scenes and more images than the average episode of GGGB, so the additional development is clearly used to pack more into each update. Therefore, I don't think that you can say that she is milking her patrons, as that would mean the updates are constantly being delayed without any output to show for it.

Instead, it is abundantly clear to me that the reason why this game takes so long to develop nowadays, is because she has taken on twice the amount of work. Assuming that you want to keep the content per MC roughly the same as in GGGB, adding an additional MC immediately implies that you would need to double the work you do, even if you wouldn't intertwine their stories at all. However, their stories are intertwined, which means that you must now consider not only how each MC relates to their own closest group of characters, but also how each MC relates to the other MC's closest group of characters. Naturally, this makes the game increasingly complicated to develop, with longer times between updates as a consequence.

Both of these are caused by Eva herself, though, which makes me less sympathetic to her development struggles, and less accepting of the increased development time. Literally anyone could have predicated that this was going to happen when she announced that the game was going to have to MCs, which makes you wonder how Eva decided to move forward with that idea. Likely, all of the problems could have been solved by just keeping the scope at a reasonable level, something that Eva is solely responsible for. For this, I think you have every right to criticise her, and express dissatisfaction at how long the game is taking to develop.

Further, the development tendencies aren't great either. Looking back, the game was actually released relatively frequently for the first five (or so) chapters, after which it has slowed down tremendously. It feels as if every status update contains some comment about how the week wasn't as productive as she would have liked, or how she is struggling with the writing. Clearly, this is a worrying trend, because it suggest that the development is unlikely to speed up, and that, if anything, it will probably slow down, which is once again a consequence of the decisions that she has made regarding the cope of the game.

Personally, I also feel quite annoyed with how Eva seems to have completely accepted that this is now a game that takes five months to develop, and is making no effort to find ways to reduce this time. As long as this doesn't impact her patron numbers, she isn't really incentivized to do so either, which adds to the impression that this game is more likely to slow down in development, rather than speed up, and that Eva really hasn't managed this in the best way possible.

Overall, then, I think that you can criticise Eva for several things when it comes to the development of ORS. Milking, is not one of them. Mismanaging the scope and development, though, is something that I do think Eva has made herself guilty of. It is just unfortunate that it has come to this, because at the end of the day, we all just want as many updates as possible. And while five months can be a huge update for a 3D game, a 2D game does't really compare in this regard...
And this, you little trolls, is how you do constructive criticism.
This I can agree with. And I share some of those worries.

My main criticism of Eva's way of doing it is her obvious lack of planning. With a project of this scope, "gardening writing" (aka "I'mma wing it as it goes" in my book) only goes so far. And I know and understand that it's the best way for her to feel like she can create at all, but it's frustrating to see her hit the same walls time and again.

I think "ideal timeframe of updating" for such a project would be 3 to 4 months. Of course, following and supporting a fair amount of devs with ambitious ones, I've come to realized this only holds for so long and there's a point in the story where, lest they burn themselves out, it's unsustainable and it keeps growing further. This is what happened with ORS, but I'm sure part of it is due to her workflow. Can she work on it and change for the better ? That's a real, hard question. I know Oceandev seemingly went through this not long ago, and apparently is now much more efficient and faster because he changed the way he works and plans (that's his own words though, we'll have to see for ourselves if updates of his two games indeed come out faster than they used to).

In the end, it's not gonna stop me from supporting her though. Because she still delivers what is in my opinion the best updates around, with an insane amount of replayability, and a story that I actually enjoy discovering and revisiting. ORS being what it is, one of the most ambitious VNs around here, makes it both a pain to develop and wait for, and a pleasure to play when it's out. That is its curse.
 

BlackIsBetter

Member
Jul 22, 2022
102
252
Wow, wow, wow, this game is A-mazing! What a miracle. Our Red String. Fun. Smart. Creative. And a perfect archetypal structure. Persona. Shadow. Anima. Self. In that order. Perfect.

It's clear that the dev of the game knows what they are doing. Through their writing it's evident that there is no doubt in their mind about what they want to write about. No second guessing, just a master of their craft at work.

They come off as hard-working and diligent; someone who wants to give their all to the fans of this game. I don't know if there is a way to be in touch with the dev but I hope there is. Communication is the key in any successful relationship.

Anyway, do we know when the next update is? I just finished Chapter 9 and I cannot wait for Chapter 10!
 
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May 8, 2020
369
535
16-35-14-full.png I like arguments and points on both sides))
but the general fact is that both parties love this game and want to continue developing the game.
and wanting to release updates of the game faster or defending the devs for its slowness (or speed) is also an indicator that the game is super and its fans are worried about the fate of the game.
I think both opinions should exist, if you allow the deva to make a game then when he "wants" then updates will come out very rarely,
and if you rush the game, it can affect the quality of the game.
just my my opinion
don't throw stones at me with "facepalm" written on it.
 

JoJoPool

Active Member
Nov 19, 2017
659
1,508
tbh i'm starting to think this is what goes on in her patreon :
- Eva : *oh shit oh shit i haven't posted anything for two weeks, patreons must be furious!*
Eva posts something : hi guys so i'm actually taking a few days off but i'm also working hard all is good no worries.
- Patreons : OMG we love you you're awesome please take all the time you need because we have lots of money and we don't mind giving it to you for the rest of our lives even if you don't do anything.
- Eva : * wow they took that very well * Okay thank you guys don't mind if i do. :ROFLMAO:
she then proceeds to extend her vacation.......
 
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kalnitez

New Member
Jun 5, 2018
5
20
Why would it be milking ? This is a work in progress. It might need further rework in the future (probably not to that extent though, at least I hope for poor BM and for Eva's sanity's sake). That's the nature of it.


A couple of people, yours truly included, mentionned this before, but do you guys have any ideas how many times a game/movie/novel is being reworked and polished before being published ? Think of the Patreon updates till now as "previews".

The game is far from over. And now IS the time to do reworks, because the more chapters there are the more difficult it gets. It's frustrating, I get it I feel the same as you guys do and want to play new content. But to think Eva is simply drinking Maitais on the beach while laughing at our expenses is ludicrous. And unwarrented, since she has actually earn most of her patreons trust by communicating and showing results for a while now. And the (silent) majority understands that yes, the further a project goes, the more complex it gets, the more time you need to work on it to avoid plotholes and the like.

Lest you get a rushed ending with Lena suddenly deciding to burn the city "to show everyone who's boss", have Ian decides he wants to get in exile after killing her, and Perry become king of the town because "he's the one most deserving".
smells like white knight in this reply
 

Zirael Q

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2017
1,626
9,622
tbh i'm starting to think this is what goes on in her patreon :
- Eva : *oh shit oh shit i haven't posted anything for two weeks, patreons must be furious!*
Eva posts something : hi guys so i'm actually taking a few days off but i'm also working hard all is good no worries.
- Patreons : OMG we love you you're awesome please take all the time you need because we have lots of money and we don't mind giving it to you for the rest of our lives even if you don't do anything.
- Eva : * wow they took that very well * Okay thank you guys don't mind if i do. :ROFLMAO:
she then proceeds to extend her vacation.......
Noo you can't say that, she has 17382829393 reasons to take a vacation after a very tiresome and necessary, definitely not a pointless rework!!!! Stan was the most important character in the game, and what about the black dude Lena meets in the club? It would be more fitting if he was white instead. Thanks to that huge rework this game has been nominated as the Game of the Year! Don't think it'll pass Elden Ring but it'll definitely be a strong contender, because Stan is reworked now. You have no idea how worth it was to wait months for this, and how crucial it actually was.

You guys don't get it, creating a branching story is way too hard, only she's doing such a thing! No other dev writes a complex story, you don't get it :Kappa:

So, you decide to criticize her or the game? You're a crybaby :cry:
 

mommysboiii

Engaged Member
Oct 17, 2019
2,471
4,768
You guys don't get it, creating a branching story is way too hard, only she's doing such a thing! No other dev writes a complex story, you don't get it :Kappa:
name a single one with that amount of branches and different story events
 
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4.60 star(s) 351 Votes