VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[PervySageKem]

Is it me, or it sounds sexist? I get where you're coming from (Ian spoke to my soul the first scene he appeared in) but the phrasing could be better.

So, what you're saying is, you didn't care about Ashley. You didn't care about her parents divorcing (they're not your parents), didn't care about her best friend spiraling out of control and making very questionable decisions (it's not your best friend), didn't care about her grades (but she would if she was a hard-working student all this time), you didn't care about her emotional pain caused by Eric's selfish desire to leave, you didn't care about her money problems (making her sell her body is the first instinct, because it's not your body).

Isn't it a boring way to play the female protagonist POV? Didn't you want to open your mind enough and make the choices for Ashley as if her life was your own? Or as if she was your sister / best friend that you cared and empathized for?

What I get from this, is that you just can't roleplay as female protagonists, but it's not the problem of the game's design but a purely subjective incompatibility with female characters that require empathy to play AS, not WITH.

Hey, hey, hey! Wtf is this judgement coming from man?

I didn't ONLY do those things, I played several different routes. My main playthorugh was a Good Girl Route that turned Jack into a good guy and had a great relationship with him (and had a side hustle with Eva as friends exploring).

What I was saying there is that I could play the corruption routes without feeling bad because there was no Male MC with which I was more related too. You just picked up my post and interpreted in the worst way possible in order to put words in my mouth I never said and judge me as a person. Wtf is wrong with you?

I immersed myself completely with Ashley. I played pratically every possible route in GGGB and I enjoyed her character extensively.

The only thing I'm trying to fucking say here is: by putting a Male MC that appears first who you play the POV first you naturally become more immersed in his POV, making him the main protagonist for yourself (wtf does that have to do with sexism? can I not consider him my main protagonist just because he's a guy? is it that abnormal that maybe there is a bigger tendency to relate with people of your gender?)

Dude, you made some good posts but you snorted some crack for this response.

 

[PervySageKem]

This shit that goes around the internet that male players can only identify with male protagonist has absolutely no basis in reality.

I can read a novel by a female author and with a gay or female protagonist and still identify with the character, because I have an imagination. The same goes for the MC's race, nationality, rather they are a human being, and etc. Because if you use your imagination you can actually identify with someone who isn't exactly like you.

I never fucking said that you CANT identify with the female protagonist. I said you have an HIGHER TENDENCY to relate with the protagonist of your genger if there are two protagonists.

 

[lipe2410]

immerses you enough that you would want to care for the protagonists and wish for them to succeed in their endeavors.

This is the key thing of this game to me. I care so much about Ian and Lena. And that's why i don't wanna they become someone i wouldn't like. I'm not into corruption kink and this already close most of the path in Lena's side. And i don't like asshole chad Ian wich also close some fan-favorite paths in his side to me. But i also like, very much, naughty stuff so i don't wanna Lena being like a prude just waiting for Ian, nor Ian as a insecure dumb who just watch other people get laid. I'm all for balance, where both Ian and Lena exploring their sexuality (sometimes together, sometimes with other person) but always in a positve way for them. That's one of the reasons i like so much Ian/Alison (without Ian being a asshole with her) and Lena/Louise (despite Lena doesn't realy caring about her). And i can make Lena hook up with Robert in the beginnig just to give her some release from all the crap she have to endure right in the start of the story, but soon her relationship with Ian really starts, she have no problem in ignore Robert and give Ian much more priority. I just hope that all of this pay off down the line with much more lewd stuff and with Ian and Lena become a hell of a powerfull couple. Two succesfull person whith a healthy and very naughty sexual life. Lost most of the naughty stuff just because you did'nt engage in the "dark" routes is my greatest fear in ORS right now.

 

[PervySageKem]

This is the key thing of this game to me. I care so much about Ian and Lena. And that's why i don't wanna they become someone i wouldn't like. I'm not into corruption kink and this already close most of the path in Lena's side. And i don't like asshole chad Ian wich also close some fan-favorite paths in his side to me. But i also like, very much, naughty stuff so i don't wanna being like a prude just waiting for Ian, nor Ian as a insecure dumb who just watch other people get laid. I'm all for balance, where both Ian and Lena exploring their sexuality (sometimes together, sometimes with other person) but always in a positve way for them. That's one of the reasons i like so much Ian/Alison (without Ian being a asshole with her) and Lena/Louise (despite Lena doesn't realy caring about her). And i can make Lena hook up with Robert in the beginnig just to give her some release from all the crap she have to endure right in the start of the story, but soon her relationship with Ian really starts, she have no problem in ignore Robert and give Ian much more priority. I just hope that all of this pay off down the line with much more lewd stuff and with Ian and Lena become a hell of a powerfull couple. Two succesfull person whith a healthy and very naughty sexual life. Lost most of the naughty stuff just because you did'nt engage in the "dark" routes is my greatest fear in ORS right now.

Yes, I also fear the dark routes are the ones with the most content and will continue to have more in future updates.

I just want Ian and Lena to be happy together and maybe have fun with one other girl, if both of them like her. It's highly doubtful it'll be my favorite (Cindy), so if it can't be her it'll be nobody... Which might be a pretty boring playthorugh, but whatever xD

 

[lipe2410]

Yes, I also fear the dark routes are the ones with the most content and will continue to have more in future updates.

I just want Ian and Lena to be happy together and maybe have fun with one other girl, if both of them like her. It's highly doubtful it'll be my favorite (Cindy), so if it can't be her it'll be nobody... Which might be a pretty boring playthorugh, but whatever xD

I mean, i don't have any issue if there's paths where Lena is corrupted by Seymour, Axel or anyone else. I simply don't play and wish for whom like these kink enjoy and have fun. I just hope that the "wholesome" path that i like can be naughty with his own kinks as well

 

[DavDR]

This is the key thing of this game to me. I care so much about Ian and Lena. And that's why i don't wanna they become someone i wouldn't like. I'm not into corruption kink and this already close most of the path in Lena's side. And i don't like asshole chad Ian wich also close some fan-favorite paths in his side to me. But i also like, very much, naughty stuff so i don't wanna Lena being like a prude just waiting for Ian, nor Ian as a insecure dumb who just watch other people get laid. I'm all for balance, where both Ian and Lena exploring their sexuality (sometimes together, sometimes with other person) but always in a positve way for them. That's one of the reasons i like so much Ian/Alison (without Ian being a asshole with her) and Lena/Louise (despite Lena doesn't realy caring about her). And i can make Lena hook up with Robert in the beginnig just to give her some release from all the crap she have to endure right in the start of the story, but soon her relationship with Ian really starts, she have no problem in ignore Robert and give Ian much more priority. I just hope that all of this pay off down the line with much more lewd stuff and with Ian and Lena become a hell of a powerfull couple. Two succesfull person whith a healthy and very naughty sexual life. Lost most of the naughty stuff just because you did'nt engage in the "dark" routes is my greatest fear in ORS right now.

Why wouldn't you like a Lena who liked sex? I'm sure that you enjoy having sex with women, why can't women enjoy having sex with other men?

The whole problem with 'corruption' in these games is that it assume's that Women are 'pure' to begin with. That's not the way that the world is made. Women enjoy sex too.

 

[PervySageKem]

I mean, i don't have any issue if there's paths where Lena is corrupted by Seymour, Axel or anyone else. I simply don't and wish for whom like these kink enjoy and have. I just hope that the "wholesome" path that i like can be naughty with his own kinks as well

Yes, I don't mind them existing, everyone has a right to have their kinks satisfied. There should be a dark/corruption path.

I just think that the wholesome path should have the same amount of content.

 

[PervySageKem]

Why wouldn't you like a Lena who liked sex? I'm sure that you enjoy having sex with women, why can't women enjoy having sex with other men?

The whole problem with 'corruption' in these games is that it assume's that Women are 'pure' to begin with. That's not the way that the world is made. Women enjoy sex too.

Yes, women enjoy sex and they should. That doesn't mean that breaking their personal morals and the trust of other people isn't "corruption".

 

[lipe2410]

Why wouldn't you like a Lena who liked sex? I'm sure that you enjoy having sex with women, why can't women enjoy having sex with other men?

I enjoy that Lena like have sex. That's why i like her content with Louise where she can discover i dom side that she didn't knew she had before. Or even with Robert where she can act more dominat too in the later scenes. I'm just no into in make her submit to guys who already shown that are completly assholes imho.
Edit: and that's why i'm happy with Stan rework and will definetly play his path as Lena when the revised ch. 1-9 release.

 

[BloodyMares]

I didn't ONLY do those things, I played several different routes. My main playthorugh was a Good Girl Route that turned Jack into a good guy and had a great relationship with him (and had a side hustle with Eva as friends exploring).

Okay, my bad. You confused me with how you only spoke about playing Ashley as an immortal slut as the main focus of your point, so I reached a different conclusion. I apologize for this unjust judgment, let's calm down.

The only thing I'm trying to fucking say here is: by putting a Male MC that appears first who you play the POV first you naturally become more immersed in his POV, making him the main protagonist for yourself (wtf does that have to do with sexism? can I not consider him my main protagonist just because he's a guy? is it that abnormal that maybe there is a bigger tendency to relate with people of your gender?)

Personally, I find gender as a non-factor for immersing myself with certain characters. I don't relate to Ian more because he's a guy, I relate to him because he's a struggling underdog with great aspirations, has a group of friends that are kinda drifting apart which hits close to home for me, and he's kinda a dorky nerd overthinking everything which gives him charm. And the heartbreak is always relatable, too. Say, if the genders were switched, and Holly was in Ian's place (they're fairly similar minus the gym and not having any friends), but in Lena's place was Robert (if he wasn't such a douche) or Mike, then I would relate to Holly a lot more simply because her character traits I find in myself, but seeing those outgoing playboys who had too much on their shoulders would make them compelling characters, but I wouldn't relate to them to the same extent.

 

[DavDR]

Yes, women enjoy sex and they should. That doesn't mean that breaking their personal morals and the trust of other people isn't "corruption".

Oh, what is her personal morals, I don't think that was ever defined in the game. And whose trust is she breaking?

In my game Lena is seeing both Robert and Ian. She's not looking for a serious relationship, having just come out of one, but she decides to take her friend Ivy's advice and have some fun. She's also like 98% of the population and not interested in her own sex, with Louise or any other woman. Being intelligent she also avoids Jeremy, Seymour, and Axel like the plague.

 

[BloodyMares]

This is the key thing of this game to me. I care so much about Ian and Lena. And that's why i don't wanna they become someone i wouldn't like. I'm not into corruption kink and this already close most of the path in Lena's side. And i don't like asshole chad Ian wich also close some fan-favorite paths in his side to me. But i also like, very much, naughty stuff so i don't wanna Lena being like a prude just waiting for Ian, nor Ian as a insecure dumb who just watch other people get laid. I'm all for balance, where both Ian and Lena exploring their sexuality (sometimes together, sometimes with other person) but always in a positve way for them. That's one of the reasons i like so much Ian/Alison (without Ian being a asshole with her) and Lena/Louise (despite Lena doesn't realy caring about her). And i can make Lena hook up with Robert in the beginnig just to give her some release from all the crap she have to endure right in the start of the story, but soon her relationship with Ian really starts, she have no problem in ignore Robert and give Ian much more priority. I just hope that all of this pay off down the line with much more lewd stuff and with Ian and Lena become a hell of a powerfull couple. Two succesfull person whith a healthy and very naughty sexual life. Lost most of the naughty stuff just because you did'nt engage in the "dark" routes is my greatest fear in ORS right now.

I wouldn't worry about it. The latest Ian x Lena scene in Chapter 9 was a good sample of things to come I think. They can rock each other's worlds.

 

[lipe2410]

And do you belive that i miss this scene in the first time i play because i make Lena go to Axel's place just to reject him? I laught seem how dumb i was

 

[BloodyMares]

Oh, what is her personal morals, I don't think that was ever defined in the game.

If we take first 3 chapters to make a character judgment, then she enjoys nude modeling but mainly for the artistic side of it, being seen as the modern-day Venus to inspire people to create art, not the sexual side or doing anything for money (that comes with Ivy's corruption of Lena). Which is how Seymour could probably sweet-talk to her so efficiently because he sees her as a muse as well, but rather the Siren type. Other than that, she hates cheaters (at least when she or her friends are involved). When that moral doesn't control her (Mike, Jeremy), it could easily be viewed as corruption as well because she starts making choices that hurt other people.

 

[JohnnySolo]

It’s difficult to say what is wrong with Lena’s alternate routes. I personally like Lena’s character and I can also connect to her, even if I am a male. She is a hard-working young girl and cares for her family even if she has a complicated relationship with her mother. She has clear moral believes and maybe she is a bit too much under a bad influence of her friend (Ivy).

With this in mind a lot of Lena’s alternate content doesn’t fit for me. I like the Lena / Holly story and also like the Lena/Louise content, but the rest is just a loss of time. And it’s not because I think Lena should only have sex with Ian, it’s because I really dislike the character of Robert, Mike, Jeremy and Axel. Robert is a complete idiot (I know the Robert fan boys are coming after me…) and Lena is completely out of his league, so can’t image why Lana should have sex with him, even if she would be horny af. For Mike / Jeremy Lena is just another trophy. And Axel is just Axel, Mr. Perfect Asshole.

Also, the story with Seymour leads to pretty predictable ending. And maybe most disappoint thing is, that all these stories lead to Lena being on the weaker end. Okay, I don’t know how Eva Kiss is planning the ending of the game, but I don’t see anything of intriguing especially compared to Ian’s possibilities. And this is the big difference, on Ian’s side all options are somehow interesting, some are better (Lena, Holly, Alison, Cherry) some are more conflicted (Emma (fucking the girl your best friend is in love with), Cindy).

 

[indubarbie]

I recommend waiting for the revised version of Chapter 9 and start the new game. Your old saves won't work anyway.

Thank you for your info

 

[PervySageKem]

Okay, my bad. You confused me with how you only spoke about playing Ashley as an immortal slut as the main focus of your point, so I reached a different conclusion. I apologize for this unjust judgment, let's calm down.



Personally, I find gender as a non-factor for immersing myself with certain characters. I don't relate to Ian more because he's a guy, I relate to him because he's a struggling underdog with great aspirations, has a group of friends that are kinda drifting apart which hits close to home for me, and he's kinda a dorky nerd overthinking everything which gives him charm. And the heartbreak is always relatable, too. Say, if the genders were switched, and Holly was in Ian's place (they're fairly similar minus the gym and not having any friends), but in Lena's place was Robert (if he wasn't such a douche) or Mike, then I would relate to Holly a lot more simply because her character traits I find in myself, but seeing those outgoing playboys who had too much on their shoulders would make them compelling characters, but I wouldn't relate to them to the same extent.

Good on you for admiting you jumped the gun, apologies accepted. I'm sorry if I also reacted strongly, it's just really annoying when I get judged over something that isn't even true.

Yeah, I can understand how people can relate more with personality. I continue to believe that is not the most common situation, I still think it's more common for players to relate with Ian.

Either way, my whole point can be boiled down to this: there is a probably much bigger percentage of players which find the "Lena Corruption" paths unattractive choices, even if said players loved the Corruption Path's in GGGB.

If most players won't enjoy these scenes and if it's true they are the majority (I believe it is, but I can't know for certain I dont read minds), it might be a good idea to expand and add more "wholesome content".

Another suggestion I have: add an option right on the beginning to completly send Ian and Lena on completely different paths and never see each other again. If that were an option, I'd be much more confortable in experimenting on the content I missed out on.

 

[PervySageKem]

Oh, what is her personal morals, I don't think that was ever defined in the game. And whose trust is she breaking?

In my game Lena is seeing both Robert and Ian. She's not looking for a serious relationship, having just come out of one, but she decides to take her friend Ivy's advice and have some fun. She's also like 98% of the population and not interested in her own sex, with Louise or any other woman. Being intelligent she also avoids Jeremy, Seymour, and Axel like the plague.

Like BloodyMares says, there is quite a bit of exposition through the whole game about Lena's reasoning when doing things. If the "worst thing" that ever happened in her love life was cheating, and she's constantly talking about how much it hurt, it doesn't make sense for her to cheat. She always talks about her modelling in an artistic way and the way she reacts to most things leads me to believe she's accepting of other peoples decisions, she just doesn't want them for herself.

There is also another piece to consider: if we think how Ian is portrayed and we think of the reasons that makes Lena like him, that doesn't sound like a girl that just wants to snort cocaine and fuck around with a bunch of different people.

I'm not entirely sure, but from playing the game while using the walkthrough I got the idea that the options that are needed to take for her to go down those paths are pretty off-character.

In the end, it's all player interpretation. A lot of people come to this game after GGGB for the corruption and slutty-ness, so they tend to defend that type of behavior. Others found both games and wanted fairly wholesome experiences (I myself look for games with a chill vibe that end well for everybody).

If your Lena was slutty from the beginning, you think that all the choices makes sense. If my Lena was always viewed as wholesome and prude, I'll look at the same choices and think they don't make sense. It's a matter of what is your favored perspective.

 

[Canto Forte]

This game gets us the hard choices of being true to yourself.
You have ta join the dark side to get a girl. Period.

Ian is portrayed with absolutely no chance of getting with a girl the 1st time they meet,
while some of his friends are portrayed as getting the panties drop on anyone in no time.

LEn is portrayed as being this meat sock every creep hits on just ”cause.
They all treat her disingenuous and detrimental.

So that is it .. one can save Len from falling on some easy dumb chick pole,
getting her the hard relationship choice of waiting for Ian and then painstakingly
work this uphill relationship with him,
or just give in to all and any jerk she meets along theway.

One can also save Ian by keeping him awquard just long enough to meet Len.

Showing how the only possible way of Ian to get with anyone is by
letting his womanizer man whore barman turn him into something or other,
while actively trying to get into the pants of any option Ian might heave,
that is the travesty of this game.

Fear not tho, shrewd trial and error choice hammering will get you girls
all after you smart up and fight the programming of this mega gigolo.

Game oN!

 

[Baka!]

Am I the only one who thinks it's a waste that Eva isn't developing too much of a possible Ed + Lena route while Molly is Cucked? a pregnancy on that route makes sense considering Ed's biography. On the other hand, as a fan of Arthur's route in GGGB, I feel like there won't be anything as immoral and fucked up in ORS, sad...