VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[Saerwen]

I think that, given as you note yourself, Ivy doesn't actually have problem with trying to push boundaries with Lena, or do things behind Lena's back, the idea that she treats Lena and Holly differently is, well, just another presumption the game itself doesn't really support. Wouldn't it be more logical to take things at face value, and conclude that there's things Ivy thinks are okay to do (like fucking a guy she knows Lena is interested in, or making a move on a girl she's interested in) and there's things Ivy thinks aren't okay, like drugging people against their consent?

Seriously, it kind of boggles the mind why exactly people believe Ivy is the sort of a person who'd drug and rape someone while what, pretending to be their friend? It's funny that for all the talk about "double standards that give women a pass" she seems to be the only person who get smeared with this kind of talk.

Meantime, fucking Arthur: Hello, Lena
*audience: wild cheers*

double standards, indeed.

Fucking Arthur, indeed. Western type of an ugly bastard.

 

[ffive]

Fucking Arthur, indeed. Western type of an ugly bastard.

The one way for me to get behind the "Ivy is a drugging rapist" theory is if she picks Arthur to be on the receiving end.

 

[Hungover00]

I think that, given as you note yourself, Ivy doesn't actually have problem with trying to push boundaries with Lena, or do things behind Lena's back, the idea that she treats Lena and Holly differently is, well, just another presumption the game itself doesn't really support. Wouldn't it be more logical to take things at face value, and conclude that there's things Ivy thinks are okay to do (like fucking a guy she knows Lena is interested in, or making a move on a girl she's interested in) and there's things Ivy thinks aren't okay, like drugging people against their consent?

Seriously, it kind of boggles the mind why exactly people believe Ivy is the sort of a person who'd drug and rape someone while what, pretending to be their friend? It's funny that for all the talk about "double standards that give women a pass" she seems to be the only person who get smeared with this kind of talk.

Meantime, fucking Arthur: Hello, Lena
*audience: wild cheers*

double standards, indeed.

Well, I think you may have grouped me with some others that I don't share the same views of. Not an Arthur fan, firstly.

Primarily the reason not to take Ivy at face value is the game's writing suggests she's always on the make. She pumps Ian for information about Cindy and the group after the gym, but then says she's just trying to get to know him better. And there's many other moments too, of her going behind peoples backs or around their wishes to get what she wants (she bad mouths Minerva, while taking her money, everything about the Axel shoot is sus, Lena can try and stake a claim on Mark and Ivy ignores it and does what she wants). I don't think the game has really indicated that Ivy has a code of beliefs, more just an assortment of best practices that can be ignored when they become inconvenient.

I think it is probable that Ivy got Holly to take drugs before the glory hole, but whether that was coming from 'she'll feel more comfortable and let loose better if Holly's on Molly' or if it was more of 'if I get her high I can surprise her and push her past her old boundaries,' I don't know.

And as I've said, it's part of what makes Ivy such a compelling character for the story. I don't think Ivy respects mainstream values and definitions of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. I think it's likely that her ego is so strong she can justify any behaviour because she would enjoy that, so so should they. She's almost like a sociopathic prophet of sluttyness, a Nietzschean Uber-Slut that everyone should emulate. Like don't you think Seymour and Ivy would vibe like hell? (but probably hate each other a bit too)

 

[Eleanorduval]

i didn't research the part where is drug.I m not huge fan of drug corruption in games

 

[John Doe Jr.]

Don't mix up clubs with brothels

Plenty of girls into clubbing/raving dress the exact same

 

[Hungover00]

i didn't research the part where is drug.I m not huge fan of drug corruption in games

You really don't need to research anything about the game unless you're on your 4+ playthrough. Just have fun, make the choices you want the characters to make, and let the story unfold.

Save before each choice would also be my recommendation, but likely others would disagree. If the characters seem tense, be tense yourself, there are quick time choices.

Drugs should be avoidable.

 

[Hungover00]

The one way for me to get behind the "Ivy is a drugging rapist" theory is if she picks Arthur to be on the receiving end.

'The dildo of consequences rarely comes lubed!'

(always fun debating with you. You make excellent points, I think we just value the evidence differently.)

 

[fatpussy123]

Im going to say it i dont give a fuck,Holly not being high in that scene would be terrible writing by Evakiss.
Holly THE SAINT Watson being high on penis like people are saying is GGGB bullshit,horrendous outcome.

I think it's obvious she is high, Lena comments on it, why add those comments if it's not going anywhere. The question to me isn't is she high, it's did she know what was going to happen when she was sober, was she drugged, or did she willingly take hard drugs and thing escalated.

 

[Eleanorduval]

You really don't need to research anything about the game unless you're on your 4+ playthrough. Just have fun, make the choices you want the characters to make, and let the story unfold.

Save before each choice would also be my recommendation, but likely others would disagree. If the characters seem tense, be tense yourself, there are quick time choices.

Drugs should be avoidable.

i don't understand the last part,ivy will dug holly whatever u do? i try not take games too serious,not identify my self to the character. If u see on most threads there is fight,it is due to extreme addictation

 

[Blurpee69]

i didn't research the part where is drug.I m not huge fan of drug corruption in games

There isn't drugs. People are assuming that Holly was drugged, when there isn't really proof of it at this moment. Lena thinks Holly looks out of it, but that could be any number of things outside of drugs. And like ffive has been argueing, even if there are drugs involved, there is no proof that Holly didn't take them willingly.

 

[Socrambus]

The real double standard in this discussion is considering promiscuity corruption, but only if we are talking about a female character. If it's a male character, then he's a chad. Just imagine an alternative story where Jeremy is Stan's friend and he makes an effort to try to make Stan stop being a virgin. He encourages him to party, have some drinks, maybe some drugs. He wingmans him so he gets some action with some random girls but always insisting on no catching feelings and just have casual sex. And Stan ends up fucking several girls including some thereesomes with Jeremy and let's say being in the other side of Holly's glory hole. Most people would be calling Jeremy the best friend ever and Stan a fucking chad.

And this is not a defense of Ivy. I see her as a manipulative bitch who plays with people for her own advantage and amusement. But she really thinks her way of life and seeing things is the right one, she doesn't see as corrupting getting Lena and Holly to be more like her.

 

[Canto Forte]

Ivy is just a pethetic, lonely, whore like version of Lena, if Lena had never had any falling out with Axel.

If Lena embraced promiscuity and had her own lez harem, just like Ivy and just like Jeremy - she would be the girl chad all along.

This game is made by a girl who writes, draws and produces female run harems in her games. Chad whoring girls are the heroes she gives players to toy with and we love it.

And this is not a defense of Ivy. I see her as a manipulative bitch who plays with people for her own advantage and amusement. But she really thinks her way of life and seeing things is the right one, she doesn't see as corrupting getting Lena and Holly to be more like her.

The real double standard in this discussion is considering promiscuity corruption, but only if we are talking about a female character. If it's a male character, then he's a chad.

There never was any double standard - if Lena had no trouble with Ivy, Jeremy or Axel being whores, as this is who those jerks are all game long, there would be nothing to game for. Lena would already be just another whore just like them and game over.

This game is about the disillusioned Ian and Lena, either getting with the whore program and lifestyle their BFFs condone, or try another path or two.

Though that ignores that Ivy/Lena and Ivy/Holly's relationship is very different.

the idea that she treats Lena and Holly differently is, well, just another presumption the game itself doesn't really support.

Jeremy, Ivy and Axel never change the whole game - they are just narcisistic disgusting sex predators who toy with everyone they ever meet just like a Hyena with the prey, including Lena and Ian—those poor souls they torture the most.

 

[Hungover00]

The real double standard in this discussion is considering promiscuity corruption, but only if we are talking about a female character. If it's a male character, then he's a chad. Just imagine an alternative story where Jeremy is Stan's friend and he makes an effort to try to make Stan stop being a virgin. He encourages him to party, have some drinks, maybe some drugs. He wingmans him so he gets some action with some random girls but always insisting on no catching feelings and just have casual sex. And Stan ends up fucking several girls including some thereesomes with Jeremy and let's say being in the other side of Holly's glory hole. Most people would be calling Jeremy the best friend ever and Stan a fucking chad.

And this is not a defense of Ivy. I see her as a manipulative bitch who plays with people for her own advantage and amusement. But she really thinks her way of life and seeing things is the right one, she doesn't see as corrupting getting Lena and Holly to be more like her.

Though you're skipping over Stan and Jeremy sucking each other off if you want to actually mirror the dynamics

I think the same argument could be made though, that Jeremy's influence on Stan was toxic rather than healthy, as it boiled everything down to a pursuit of sex, and viewing sex in a transactional manner.

And I agree, Ivy is a manipulative bitch, but she also believes her actions are correct or even righteous. Seymour would likely relate to her as a fellow Master/Child.

Personally, I do believe having a slutty period in one's life is a good thing overall. The game ignores STI/STDs, pregnancy risk, and minimises potential reputational damage. Domestic violence is also ignored as a threat, and a trip to service a gloryhole is at the extreme edge of a slutty phase. But I view a benevolent slutty phase as being one of exploration and personal growth and understanding. Ivy's version goes a bit beyond that, imo.

But it's a porn game, so reality doesn't need to rear it's ugly head at every corner. This game at least includes condoms, if briefly. So it's ahead of most games here.

 

[Saerwen]

The real double standard in this discussion is considering promiscuity corruption, but only if we are talking about a female character. If it's a male character, then he's a chad. Just imagine an alternative story where Jeremy is Stan's friend and he makes an effort to try to make Stan stop being a virgin. He encourages him to party, have some drinks, maybe some drugs. He wingmans him so he gets some action with some random girls but always insisting on no catching feelings and just have casual sex. And Stan ends up fucking several girls including some thereesomes with Jeremy and let's say being in the other side of Holly's glory hole. Most people would be calling Jeremy the best friend ever and Stan a fucking chad.

And this is not a defense of Ivy. I see her as a manipulative bitch who plays with people for her own advantage and amusement. But she really thinks her way of life and seeing things is the right one, she doesn't see as corrupting getting Lena and Holly to be more like her.

It is a double standard which is disgusting. Whether in fiction or life, women are always seen as sluts but men, never. Also, I don't consider that influencing characters to try/do something bad is same as encouraging to be better.

 

[soprano31]

Ivy is just a pethetic, lonely, whore like version of Lena, if Lena had never had any falling out with Axel.

If Lena embraced promiscuity and had her own lez harem, just like Ivy and just like Jeremy - she would be the girl chad all along.

This game is made by a girl who writes, draws and produces female run harems in her games. Chad whoring girls are the heroes she gives players to toy with and we love it.




There never was any double standard - if Lena had no trouble with Ivy, Jeremy or Axel being whores, as this is who those jerks are all game long, there would be nothing to game for. Lena would already be just another whore just like them and game over.

This game is about the disillusioned Ian and Lena, either getting with the whore program and lifestyle their BFFs condone, or try another path or two.

 

[redwolf321]

I was wondering does anybody know whether Molly, Ed, Gillian, and Nat be getting any scenes as I thought they would be bigger parts for them in the narrative.

 

[Eleanorduval]

I was wondering does anybody know whether Molly, Ed, Gillian, and Nat be getting any scenes as I thought they would be bigger parts for them in the narrative.

maybe gillian

 

[dolfe67]

The real double standard in this discussion is considering promiscuity corruption, but only if we are talking about a female character. If it's a male character, then he's a chad. Just imagine an alternative story where Jeremy is Stan's friend and he makes an effort to try to make Stan stop being a virgin. He encourages him to party, have some drinks, maybe some drugs. He wingmans him so he gets some action with some random girls but always insisting on no catching feelings and just have casual sex. And Stan ends up fucking several girls including some thereesomes with Jeremy and let's say being in the other side of Holly's glory hole. Most people would be calling Jeremy the best friend ever and Stan a fucking chad.

And this is not a defense of Ivy. I see her as a manipulative bitch who plays with people for her own advantage and amusement. But she really thinks her way of life and seeing things is the right one, she doesn't see as corrupting getting Lena and Holly to be more like her.

Yes patriarchy and all that jizz. Virgin women are valuable, virgin men are nobodies.

And Holly is an adult, she can make her own decisions, right? Otherwise she should be under care. So if she gets pressured to take drugs, it's on her not on Ivy. And I don't think Ivy roofed her, she just asked her, like we can see how she did with Lena

 

[dolfe67]

I was wondering does anybody know whether Molly, Ed, Gillian, and Nat be getting any scenes as I thought they would be bigger parts for them in the narrative.

Molly no, Ed was abandoned (maybe in a dlc), Gillian maybe one scene outside the dreams, Nat probably not at this point

 

[Socrambus]

Though you're skipping over Stan and Jeremy sucking each other off if you want to actually mirror the dynamics

I think the same argument could be made though, that Jeremy's influence on Stan was toxic rather than healthy, as it boiled everything down to a pursuit of sex, and viewing sex in a transactional manner.

And I agree, Ivy is a manipulative bitch, but she also believes her actions are correct or even righteous. Seymour would likely relate to her as a fellow Master/Child.

Personally, I do believe having a slutty period in one's life is a good thing overall. The game ignores STI/STDs, pregnancy risk, and minimises potential reputational damage. Domestic violence is also ignored as a threat, and a trip to service a gloryhole is at the extreme edge of a slutty phase. But I view a benevolent slutty phase as being one of exploration and personal growth and understanding. Ivy's version goes a bit beyond that, imo.

But it's a porn game, so reality doesn't need to rear it's ugly head at every corner. This game at least includes condoms, if briefly. So it's ahead of most games here.

It's an alternative universe with no STD, reputation or police (IRL, at least in Spain, Axel would sleep in a cell and find himself in front of a judge after going to his ex workplace and hitting a guy). There's a pretty popular game in this site where getting a STD even impacts the path with one LI IIRC, in this game creampies are mostly a kink.

It is a double standard which is disgusting. Whether in fiction or life, women are always seen as sluts but men, never. Also, I don't consider that influencing characters to try/do something bad is same as encouraging to be better.

Yes patriarchy and all that jizz. Virgin women are valuable, virgin men are nobodies.

And Holly is an adult, she can make her own decisions, right? Otherwise she should be under care. So if she gets pressured to take drugs, it's on her not on Ivy. And I don't think Ivy roofed her, she just asked her, like we can see how she did with Lena

My point was not a judgemental one. For example, I find a girl taking part in a glory hole disgusting and would never have a relationship with her. But I wouldn't get my dick sucked in one either. My point is for people to be consistant with their views, whatever they are.

And if you really think about it, when we advice someone about something we oftenly end up just trying to make them more like us. If we thought our lifestyle and views were wrong, we wouldn't have them in the first place. So basically that's the thing with Ivy, she sees it as encouraging Lena and Holly to be better. We can disagree but that's her pov.