VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[falsapersona]

The "treats her to the point she'll cheat on him" is victim blaming. It also could be said that Cindy is such a bitch that cause Wade depression and to become the pathetic loser she later cheats on. I don't think we got an explicit reason for Wade changing from his younger persona.

She's entitled, and in many ways Wade was too because he has been taking* her for granted and for a while has not made an active effort to kept the relationship moving forward. Cheating aside, at the start of the game, their relationship is in a bad place and likely would have ended even without Ian's or Axel's presence, and that's not bad at all. Not every relationship is made to last forever, and particularly in the case of Wade will be beneficial bc the breakup will serve as a wake up call to start getting some agency in his life moving forward

The "treats her to the point
It is his fault, if you really think it isn't you have really low standards for your male friends and yourself as a man. And even if we give him a pass on getting a blowjob from the girl his best friend is in love with, he should have inmediately told Ian about it. Not saying anything and letting your best friend continue to be naively in love with a girl that goes around sucking his friends' dicks is not good friend behaviour.

What kind of weak-ass mentality is that? The whole event started as a game between consenting adults, if a hot girl that your friend dated twice jumps on you wanting to suck your dick while on it, it gets a pass, specially if you call for a moment to think things through before she gets down to business. And immediately going and spill the beans to your friend would be the bitch ass move, because if they had a chance with each other that may create friction and fuck things over before they get a chance to build something. A friend, a real one, will talk about that happening in the future when the whole event is a thing of the past and not an issue, or will use it to talk the friend out of the relationship before he gets too deep

And extra important, Jeremy doesn't purse Lena after it happens, so it could be left as harmless fun if Lena doesn't make any other move on Jeremy

 

[Ebet Ebety]

Oh, is it time for Jeremy bashing again?

Who and what. Lena, Ivy, Alison and Emma knows he just want to fuck, none of them expect to be in a relationship with him. They either agree with him or refuse him (and he backs down in the latter case). Louise remains, and while there is some blame on Jeremy's side, its also clear she is too immature to be in a relationship and has wrong expectations with all of her partners (Lena and Ian just as much).


If Alison isn't taken, Jeremy is as free to make a move on her as every other person. And if Ian invites him to a threesome and spurns him on, that's on him.


Stopping from what? Hooking up with available girls? The audacity of this guy!!!
Jeremy doesn't hook up with any girl unless they agree on it (like any person with basic sensibility).


Considering how traumatic Ian is about her, that's a fairly reasonable call.


As usual, Jeremy's biggest screw-up, that he hides Ian and Cindy fucking from Wade, wasn't even mentioned. Because that is convenient for Ian/the player, so its not bad behaviour, right? Jeremy sucks because he can hook up with girls that Ian/the player may have in sight, the audacity.

Yeah imagine having the audacity to disagree with you... please.
Jeremy hooks up with Lena without any problem if relationship with Ian is not above a certain threshold and even if it is he can still be convinced, which is extremely shitty. He treats Louise like garbage and cheats on her shamelessly. If you think a partner is not right for you for whatever reason and you are a decent person you dump them, you don't keep them around just because you enjoy fucking them while you go after half of town, again very shitty. He shares intimate pictures of the women he hooks up with without their consent which is illegal on top of being unfathomably shitty.
Won't comment on the part on the part about Jeremy not hooking up with girls unless they agree to it because I'm not really sure why somebody would feel the need to underline something like that, like somehow not engaging in criminal behavior is to be considered a merit.
And for the record I'm not complaining about any of it being part of the story, I'm only assessing Jeremy's general character, which IMO is pretty damn terrible.

 

[Blurpee69]

That implies Wade is a victim here and honestly i don't view it like that. Wade himself recognizes during his self-reflection at the beach house that he's had treated Cindy poorly. As long as he's got his wits around him to do any self-reflection, anyway.

Right? Both Wade and Cindy have issues that resulted in the relationship devolving into what it is by the time of the beach house. Ian and, to a much less extent, Lena can help them realize that both have faults that led to their breakup.

As you mentioned, Wade can recognize that he hasn't supported Cindy as much as he should and has taken her for granted while he's struggled to find himself and the motivation he used to have. Cindy is incredibly pushy and fails to recognize Wade's depression for what it is. Ian can very blatantly point it out when the two of them leave the Fortress for Shine, but that doesn't mean Cindy is equipped to handle that kind of knowledge appropriately. It's also not a stretch to assume that Cindy can reach a similar conclusion with Wade that she does on a loving Ian path with similar boundaries to Wade. (i.e. modeling is very ephemeral without the creative depth she seeks). That realization can lead her back to Wade. It seems in all paths Cindy recognizes, to some extent, that Axel is manipulating her. But if Ian and Wade don't have a good relationship with her, who else is she going to turn to, other than Axel?

The difference between Ian and Perry; is that Ian can see Cindy's pushiness for what it is, trying to make Wade better, even if it isn't what Wade needs right now. Ian also pushes Wade to be better, he just happens to be more subtle about it than Cindy, thus letting Wade come to his own realization, but doesn't encourage the slacker mentality like Perry does. Ian, also unlike Perry, can see how Wade's depression affects those around him, namely Cindy. You can only try and help someone so much before recognizing that they're not bothering to help themselves so your efforts are wasted. Cindy is just the first domino to fall if Wade were to continue like this.

That's not me trying to knock Perry either. He just lacks the maturity, though specifically emotional maturity, of Ian at the beginning of the story. Coincidentally Ian, and again a lesser extent Lena, can help Perry find that maturity within himself by pushing him into working at the cafe and seizing the moment with Emma or Cherry or both.

I have my doubts that EK will do this, because it could be a massive programming and script writing sink, but I'd love to see variables for Perry and Wade's relationship based on which of them have matured thanks to Ian. Just an example: Ian has helped Perry with Emma and working at the cafe, but has done nothing to support Wade. Does Perry become the last domino to fall in Wade's support structure? Does he take charge in trying to help Wade?

 

[ExtremeLips]

I mean, we have plenty people in this very thread who keep simping for Ivy and hoping she'll throw them a bone, too.

Je suis Jeremy.

Ivy is overrated

 

[Yellowie The Goldie]

Right? Both Wade and Cindy have issues that resulted in the relationship devolving into what it is by the time of the beach house. Ian and, to a much less extent, Lena can help them realize that both have faults that led to their breakup.

As you mentioned, Wade can recognize that he hasn't supported Cindy as much as he should and has taken her for granted while he's struggled to find himself and the motivation he used to have. Cindy is incredibly pushy and fails to recognize Wade's depression for what it is. Ian can very blatantly point it out when the two of them leave the Fortress for Shine, but that doesn't mean Cindy is equipped to handle that kind of knowledge appropriately. It's also not a stretch to assume that Cindy can reach a similar conclusion with Wade that she does on a loving Ian path with similar boundaries to Wade. (i.e. modeling is very ephemeral without the creative depth she seeks). That realization can lead her back to Wade. It seems in all paths Cindy recognizes, to some extent, that Axel is manipulating her. But if Ian and Wade don't have a good relationship with her, who else is she going to turn to, other than Axel?

The difference between Ian and Perry; is that Ian can see Cindy's pushiness for what it is, trying to make Wade better, even if it isn't what Wade needs right now. Ian also pushes Wade to be better, he just happens to be more subtle about it than Cindy, thus letting Wade come to his own realization, but doesn't encourage the slacker mentality like Perry does. Ian, also unlike Perry, can see how Wade's depression affects those around him, namely Cindy. You can only try and help someone so much before recognizing that they're not bothering to help themselves so your efforts are wasted. Cindy is just the first domino to fall if Wade were to continue like this.

That's not me trying to knock Perry either. He just lacks the maturity, though specifically emotional maturity, of Ian at the beginning of the story. Coincidentally Ian, and again a lesser extent Lena, can help Perry find that maturity within himself by pushing him into working at the cafe and seizing the moment with Emma or Cherry or both.

I have my doubts that EK will do this, because it could be a massive programming and script writing sink, but I'd love to see variables for Perry and Wade's relationship based on which of them have matured thanks to Ian. Just an example: Ian has helped Perry with Emma and working at the cafe, but has done nothing to support Wade. Does Perry become the last domino to fall in Wade's support structure? Does he take charge in trying to help Wade?

I think their relationship is destined to fall no matter what. The Wade that Cindy fell in love with is sadly gone. He's not the 'take no shit and don't care about shit', womaniser, effortlessly charming and good looking kind of guy anymore. He's become a shut in. Isolated, addicted to playing video games, declining in every other aspect of his life including his relationships with Cindy and friends (as constantly mentioned even in the first episode).

Cindy is a woman that is ambitious, giddy and joyful, desiring attention and constantly takes initiative. She wants someone to match her energy (or offer a balance to it like Ian does), like Wade used to do. Unfortunately as we know it, he no longer does: he has low/negative energy versus high energy. Barely hanging out with his friends unless it's to play games with Perry. A social outcast.

It hurts to say this since I do like Wade, but in order for him to get better as a person: he needs to face reality and have Cindy break up with him. Not only for her to detach and make him see what he has lost, but also for him to realise just how much he's been living in his own world while not paying attention to the world outside of his room.

 

[Gicoo]

Jeremy hooks up with Lena without any problem if relationship with Ian is not above a certain threshold and even if it is he can still be convinced, which is extremely shitty.

He adresses this issue to Lena, she tells him to not worry, indicating him that she doesn't intend to be serious with Ian (and isn't, because the Jeremy flag stops her to get into a relationship afterwards), so Jeremy understands that she is a loose girl and fair game. Ian may want her to be his girlfriend, but Lena shows she doesn't intend to and the world doesn't revolve around your bro. It has some similarities with Ian entirely being allowed to make a move on Emma, regardless if Perry is interested in her, because what matters is Emma's interest and not her being reserved for Perry only, just how Lena isn't reserved to Ian. If Ian complains later, he has to face reality that Lena isn't a faithful girlfriend material.

Louise stuff I already mentioned, you once again ignored Louise's behavior, how she is very pushy and demanding, while Lena, Ian and Jeremy told her they aren't committing yet and just hooking up.

He shares intimate pictures of the women he hooks up with without their consent which is illegal on top of being unfathomably shitty.

All the girls were aware the pictures are taking (consent), none complained. If you take that risk (I wouldn't), you can't be surprised if its spread. Emma is debauched, Alison wants it so be spread to make Ian jealous. None of them told him to not spread it around and keep it a secret. I don't get picture taking in general, I assume it was done so that Eva could deliver content not involving Ian and Lena and still having them the PoV.

Won't comment on the part on the part about Jeremy not hooking up with girls unless they agree to it because I'm not really sure why somebody would feel the need to underline something like that, like somehow not engaging in criminal behavior is to be considered a merit.

I only highlighted that because you referred to Jeremy as a shitty person who treats woman like garbage, when he is reasonable to them. Hence I point out that Jeremy does refuse Lena first, he stops making moves on women if they tell him off, he does tell Ian if he saw Lena cheating on him. You may say that is normal and to be expected, but then it proves he isn't as awful and two-faced as you make him out to be.

 

[Yellowie The Goldie]

Hence I point out that Jeremy does refuse Lena first, he stops making moves on women if they tell him off, he does tell Ian if he saw Lena cheating on him.

Wait, he does? When? What are the triggers

Ivy is overrated

I mean, not to insult her or women like her or anything but like, she's an ordinary OnlyFans "fuck around and try to not find out" kind of woman. She's shameless, promiscuous, slutty and enjoys it when attention is on her. Especially if she's doing lewd things, like dancing on the pole at the club. Her taking drugs and even sleeping with taken guys like Mike shows that she has no boundaries whatsoever. Just like she sexually objectifies herself, she sexually objectifies men too and sees them as sex toys. And that's not even mentioning her peer pressuring Lena into playing a clearly lewd game with the intention of getting her to do sexual things with Jeremy, even if she's in a (new) committed relationship.

Jeremy is no saint but by comparison, he's a devil's advocate whereas she is the devil herself.

 

[Da¥e]

He shares intimate pictures of the women he hooks up with without their consent which is illegal on top of being unfathomably shitty.

You know, that all parties did in fact agree having those pictures shared, right? Ian just isn't aware of it in case of Alison. Eva even removed the sending of intimate pictures regarding Louise to Ian, that was in earlier versions of the game.

 

[Gicoo]

Wait, he does? When? What are the triggers

??? You posted the walkthrough earlier. Jeremy refuses the blowjob because of Ian and only agrees if Lena insists on it, indicating that she isn't serious about Ian.

 

[Yellowie The Goldie]

??? You posted the walkthrough earlier. Jeremy refuses the blowjob because of Ian and only agrees if Lena insists on it, indicating that she isn't serious about Ian.

"he does tell Ian if he saw Lena cheating on him "

THIS part specifically, I never had him tell Ian if Lena was cheating on him.

 

[Gicoo]

"he does tell Ian if he saw Lena cheating on him "

THIS part specifically, I never had him tell Ian if Lena was cheating on him.

Chapter 12, after the tournament. If he saw Lena fucking someone at Blazer, he always tells Ian.

 

[Yellowie The Goldie]

Chapter 12, after the tournament. If he saw Lena fucking someone at Blazer, he always tells Ian.

...oh?

TIME TO DO YET ANOTHER PLAYTHROUGH!!

MYSTERY GANG TO THE CASE!

 

[Ebet Ebety]

He adresses this issue to Lena, she tells him to not worry, indicating him that she doesn't intend to be serious with Ian (and isn't, because the Jeremy flag stops her to get into a relationship afterwards), so Jeremy understands that she is a loose girl and fair game. Ian may want her to be his girlfriend, but Lena shows she doesn't intend to and the world doesn't revolve around your bro. It has some similarities with Ian entirely being allowed to make a move on Emma, regardless if Perry is interested in her, because what matters is Emma's interest and not her being reserved for Perry only, just how Lena isn't reserved to Ian. If Ian complains later, he has to face reality that Lena isn't a faithful girlfriend material.

Louise stuff I already mentioned, you once again ignored Louise's behavior, how she is very pushy and demanding, while Lena, Ian and Jeremy told her they aren't committing yet and just hooking up.


All the girls were aware the pictures are taking (consent), none complained. If you take that risk (I wouldn't), you can't be surprised if its spread. Emma is debauched, Alison wants it so be spread to make Ian jealous. None of them told him to not spread it around and keep it a secret. I don't get picture taking in general, I assume it was done so that Eva could deliver content not involving Ian and Lena and still having them the PoV.


I only highlighted that because you referred to Jeremy as a shitty person who treats woman like garbage, when he is reasonable to them. Hence I point out that Jeremy does refuse Lena first, he stops making moves on women if they tell him off, he does tell Ian if he saw Lena cheating on him. You may say that is normal and to be expected, but then it proves he isn't as awful and two-faced as you make him out to be.

It is clear we have a different moral compass. I my view, when a friend is dating a woman you don't go after her no matter what, especially if he says he has feelings for her. If you cannot refuse advances that's on you, being "young and horny" is no excuse (and no getting a BJ from her in a "game" is not harmless fun to me). What you can certainly do is warn your buddy about it, knowing it could damage your friendship in the short run. Jeremy doing that with Ian would be fine and even appreciable if he didn't backstab him himself first

How have I ignored Louise's behavior? I have never denied she's naive and immature, I have just said that the decent thing to do would have been to dump her instead of cheating on her and lying about it. Her behavior does not excuse Jeremy's

Has Louise consented to having her pictures shown around? When has Allison ever given consent? Not even Ivy has told Jeremy to do it, she just does not care, there's a big difference and that is again no excuse.
Cheating on women, disrespecting them and violating their trust and privacy qualifies as treating them like garbage to me

 

[sztrb]

The "treats her to the point she'll cheat on him" is victim blaming. It also could be said that Cindy is such a bitch that cause Wade depression and to become the pathetic loser she later cheats on. I don't think we got an explicit reason for Wade changing from his younger persona.

Some people stop trying when they start dating. They stop taking care of themselves, or trying. It doesn't really have anything to do with who Cindy is or what she does.

Its taking away agency from Wade wallowing in self pity, getting overweight and not trying anymore, treating Cindy like shit on top of that. If they're not good together, then they should break up.

People blaming one person in a relationship especially one as toxic as Wade and Cindy is part of the problem and doesn't actually get to the root of the problem.

It is clear we have a different moral compass. I my view, when a friend is dating a woman you don't go after her no matter what, especially if he says he has feelings for her. If you cannot refuse advances that's on you, being "young and horny" is no excuse (and no getting a BJ from her in a "game" is not harmless fun to me). What you can certainly do is warn your buddy about it, knowing it could damage your friendship in the short run. Jeremy doing that with Ian would be fine and even appreciable if he didn't backstab him himself first

How have I ignored Louise's behavior? I have never denied she's naive and immature, I have just said that the decent thing to do would have been to dump her instead of cheating on her and lying about it. Her behavior does not excuse Jeremy's

Has Louise consented to having her pictures shown around? When has Allison ever given consent? Not even Ivy has told Jeremy to do it, she just does not care, there's a big difference and that is again no excuse.
Cheating on women, disrespecting them and violating their trust and privacy qualifies as treating them like garbage to me

I might be misremembering, but doesn't Jeremy try to fuck around on Louise by claiming that they're not really dating (while she seems to be of the opposite understanding).

Tbh, Jeremy isn't my favourite side character. Probably in my top 5 disliked characters in the game. Although I fucking hate Perry far more.

Probably:
1. Perry
2. Stan
3. Seymour
4. Axel
5. Jeremy

Actually, I'd put him in 6th place. I just remembered that Lena's male coworker is a bigger ass.

Talk about yourself, buddy. I'm here to spread the word of god.

Sorry, didn't realise you were a worshipper of Zardoz.

 

[Gicoo]

I my view, when a friend is dating a woman you don't go after her no matter what, especially if he says he has feelings for her.

If she makes a move on me and tells me she doesn't consider my friend her boyfriend, it is a different matter. I would tell him sooner than later, but it is still his responsibility, I'm not his caretaker and responsible for his relationships. If I fall for a loose girl and I learn that other guys are sleeping with her and she is on board with it, I may blame them and her to some extent, but objectively, it would be mostly on me since I expected too much and failed to properly communicated her my intentions, while not understanding hers as well. She wasn't gunning for a relationship, so I can't blame her for not being in a faithful relationship with me. That's why "the talk", establishing relationships and pre-dating stages are important. Lena can fool around with Ian, Jeremy and multiple others in the pre-dating phase, just how Ian can casually fuck Emma and Cherry as well while dating Lena, the game logic doesn't consider it cheating (yet). For the relationship, the game tracks that neither Lena and Ian are too involved with other persons like Jeremy or Alison, hence they automatically won't go for a whole relationship.

So no, the game made a detailed effort to not make Lena cheat on Ian with Jeremy and distinguish the types of commitment.


Others commented on the sharing picture matter. Jeremy does it very openly, so we can assume its always with consent unless stated to the contrary. Alison wants him to sent Ian material to make him jealous. Emma is free-spirited. Ivy sents nude selfies to many people. The Louise one apparently was removed? She is the one character I can defend the least regarding Jeremys character, it was a doomed relationship since both had entirely different expectations.

 

[Blurpee69]

I think their relationship is destined to fall no matter what. The Wade that Cindy fell in love with is sadly gone. He's not the 'take no shit and don't care about shit', womaniser, effortlessly charming and good looking kind of guy anymore. He's become a shut in. Isolated, addicted to playing video games, declining in every other aspect of his life including his relationships with Cindy and friends (as constantly mentioned even in the first episode).

Cindy is a woman that is ambitious, giddy and joyful, desiring attention and constantly takes initiative. She wants someone to match her energy (or offer a balance to it like Ian does), like Wade used to do. Unfortunately as we know it, he no longer does: he has low/negative energy versus high energy. Barely hanging out with his friends unless it's to play games with Perry. A social outcast.

It hurts to say this since I do like Wade, but in order for him to get better as a person: he needs to face reality and have Cindy break up with him. Not only for her to detach and make him see what he has lost, but also for him to realise just how much he's been living in his own world while not paying attention to the world outside of his room.

Yes? That was my point. I wasn't advocating, directly anyway, that they get back together. I was advocating that they both played a part in the relationship failing. Which is true, even if they don't recognize it. The relationship always fails. They always breakup. No matter what. It's a matter of how they breakup that determines their relationship going forward.

Wade's story arc, through the beach house event, is how he comes to terms with his breakup with Cindy. If Ian has helped them, Wade recognizes his failings in the relationship and that he is partially to blame. If Ian does nothing, Wade will recognize his failings, but he won't take the blame (or at least significantly less). If Ian actively sabotages their relationship, Wade will neither recognize his failings and will place all the blame with Cindy. It can be safe to assume that mostly holds true for Cindy as well, although we're not privy to her line of thinking like we are Wade's.

I'll be honest, the longer the storyline goes on, the more I'm inclined to believe that they should not get back together in a romantic capacity.

 

[Yellowie The Goldie]

I'll be honest, the longer the storyline goes on, the more I'm inclined to believe that they should not get back together in a romantic capacity.

Yeah, they're just not meant for each other. They're better off apart and maybe being just friends at the end if Ian helps out Wade with the relationship.

 

[Gicoo]

The morality on Cindy/Wade and the dilemma on who to blame how much is well done understandable cheating.

Their relationship was doomed and Ian/Axel sped up the inevitable. Circumstances and personal issues in the heat of the moment is a thing, so Cindy getting swayed by Ian on Wade's birthday flows so naturally and understandable, a contender for the best scene in the game in general.

Cindy's main flaw is her hesitance to for change and get out of her comfort zone. Breaking up with Wade is a risk, staying in the relationship and hoping it magically solves itself is the better choice for a spoiled person used to get everything handed.

I can understand being overwhelmed by Ian and the whole emotional turmoil that comes with it, but afterwards, she should've broken up with Wade much earlier than the end of chapter 12. But as said, she wants the insurance and maybe the yacht event got too much in the way to deal with Wade immediately.

As for Wade, he pays the price for ignorance and dispassion. Communication is key and neither of them managed convey their thoughts, instead its just distractions and pretending that everything goes smoothly. I do give him much less blame on the matter, since he didn't cheat and we don't know if he would have. The biggest argument for it is the chapter 12 off screen conversation he has with Lena that whose content was never disclosed. Wade isn't an entire idiot, Lena goated him putting on sunscreen on her, posed with him and asked for a threesome. His relationship with Cindy at that time was very much at the end of it, so is it straight cheating or just planning ahead after breaking up?


It shows how difficult it is to maintain a healthy relationship, which to maintain is easier than done. The objective easy answer is, no Cindy mustn't fuck Ian, and Wade mustn't encourage Lena, despite their relationship almost over. But heat of the moment emotions dictate us more than we like, so they aren't behaving unexpectedly and unreasonably.

 

[Ebet Ebety]

If she makes a move on me and tells me she doesn't consider my friend her boyfriend, it is a different matter. I would tell him sooner than later, but it is still his responsibility, I'm not his caretaker and responsible for his relationships. If I fall for a loose girl and I learn that other guys are sleeping with her and she is on board with it, I may blame them and her to some extent, but objectively, it would be mostly on me since I expected too much and failed to properly communicated her my intentions, while not understanding hers as well. She wasn't gunning for a relationship, so I can't blame her for not being in a faithful relationship with me. That's why "the talk", establishing relationships and pre-dating stages are important. Lena can fool around with Ian, Jeremy and multiple others in the pre-dating phase, just how Ian can casually fuck Emma and Cherry as well while dating Lena, the game logic doesn't consider it cheating (yet). For the relationship, the game tracks that neither Lena and Ian are too involved with other persons like Jeremy or Alison, hence they automatically won't go for a whole relationship.

So no, the game made a detailed effort to not make Lena cheat on Ian with Jeremy and distinguish the types of commitment.


Others commented on the sharing picture matter. Jeremy does it very openly, so we can assume its always with consent unless stated to the contrary. Alison wants him to sent Ian material to make him jealous. Emma is free-spirited. Ivy sents nude selfies to many people. The Louise one apparently was removed? She is the one character I can defend the least regarding Jeremys character, it was a doomed relationship since both had entirely different expectations.

As I said we have apparently very different views of friendship and relationships.
A friend dating a woman makes her an automatic no-go to me, it doesn't matter if she hits on me, it doesn't matter if she says it's not serious, I make sure to make it clear immediately and warn the friend right after.
To be honest I don't even think dating\hooking up with multiple people at once is acceptable. I don't care if other people want to do it, but I'm not going to be part of it period.

Intimate pictures are a VERY delicate subject. I believe the exact opposite of what you do. The only assumption I make is that they are to be considered strictly private unless EXPLICITLY stated and with the understanding that consent is never to be taken for granted even after it has been given once. Making sure the other party is comfortable with what we do with our shared intimacy is responsibility of both at all times

 

[Gicoo]

I'm kind of with you in RL, I wouldn't want any of the ORS characters as friends (or partners) the issue is that we have porn characters in a porn game acting on porn logic.

The issue is not so much if Jeremy is terrible friend, its if he is one by the games standards.

What does Jeremy do what Ian, Lena, Ivy, Mike, Cindy, and Alison aren't doing? They fuck around, have multiple partners, have casual relationships and aren't overly worried if they aim for someone who may or not be already taken. It's partly the criticism against Jeremy that gets me (moreso if its factual wrong, like he supposedly tries to antagonize Ian or tries to directly manipulate women), but its also the hypocrisy how he is called out for fucking around when other characters do it, but get a pass because they are either 1. a hot girl, 2. Ian aka me and I can't do no wrong or 3. asshole rivals who are expected to be shitty.

Jeremy only thinks about scoring and doesn't want relationships? What about Ivy, Slut Lena, Chad Ian, casual Emma, slut Holly doing the same? He is slightly manipulative as in he may not tell his friends all the information he has immediately and considers presenting them when its convenient for him? He boasts about his sexual life? He is interested in the same girls as the MC and may not kindly step aside but make a move on his own? Those are character flaws, but they are understandable, fairly consistent, not overly exaggerated to make the characters villains/caricatures.

Ultimately, Jeremy is as flawed as most friends are. We want those 100% supportive loyal superhumans as friends, but just as we they all have their issues and flaws, will get in your way and fail to understand each other in every situation, leading to conflict. Someone isn't your friend if you never had a strong argument and crisis with them and stuck to them afterwards despite of it. Just how Perry and Jeremy can be Ian's closest friends, despite them being shown very flawed, negatively and often a detriment in his life instead of support. Since that's usually how your friends and family is. Now, this can lead into being codependent on abusers, so naturally they have to grow up and improve as well to keep up, else its true that leaving them may be the healthier choice. Perry can improve greatly. With Jeremy there isn't much development. Lena does have a love option with him, so maybe he becomes a proper boyfriend. Maybe he and Alison stay together. Maybe he and Ian embrace being bros and don't pursue serious relationships ever.