VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ottoeight]

On the whole age gap.
The largest single commonality in future divorces is an age-gap. The closer in age two people in a relationship is, the less likely a divorce becomes.

So in the longterm it's unlikely it would actually work.

Statistics tell that the single largest commonality in divorced people in Western society is that divorced people have divorced parents.

 

[Ottoeight]

A big age gap in a couple is more accepted in society if the older one is the man, even though women live a few years longer than men. But there are exceptions, even famous ones like a certain president of a top 10 nation.

I think an ending with Rosa is certain, now how it plays out I'm not sure but there can be a good ending. If you play her good path you may notice how she's looking at him

My honest feeling is that I would consider Rose getting rid of her debt and move away with her daughter a satisfying, good story end. Same with Veronica saving her gym and getting back with her wife. Felicia? I guess a really good Felicia ending would be Felicia getting a divorce and having her own children and becoming a painter in a distant future.

I don't see why I should consider Edwin starting a stable relationship with a Carnation as the only good Carnations' endings.

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them: why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

 

[Takkatakka]

I feel like people here underestimate just how underhanded and vicious Rose is. She's not some beat junkie bimbo getting turned out to get her next fix, she's a mother who's trying to get her child and herself out of danger. A few weeks ago she was a typical repressed housewife in a dead marriage with a loser husband, and now her whole world's been turned upside down.

Edwin is very susceptible to Rose, due to his own mommy issues and with Rose being in the same situation Vicky was when Edwin was a boy. But I believe Rose only sees Edwin as a useful idiot out of who she can fuck favors and help. It's a shame that Rose doesn't know about Vicky's circumstances, or she would be able to manipulate Edwin much more effectively.

Much like Vicky learned to enjoy the gangbangs and humilliation once she let go of shame and inhibitions, so does Rose start to enjoy her own humilliation, and the little slave/master relationship she's fostering with Edwin, as evidenced by her lust stat. But just as Vicky let go of her porn career and returned to normal life unscathed, Rose will want to forget about the Club as soon as she cashes out, and resume her normal life. And at the end of the day Edwin is just another one of her tormentors, who's also good friends with Ian, who has extensively tested Rose out before she got the gig. I doubt Rose cares about Edwin's petty struggles that led him to the club, especially given the gravity of her own situation.

Also, do you people actually think that Rose will let her daughter anywhere near a freak like Edwin, who's morally grey at best. I just think our boy Edwin shouldn't be surprised once Rose skips state after she gets the cash. The age gap is the least of their problems.

I think there are multiple things at play here. First and foremost its Rose's almost obsession about her daughter to the point it becomes almost questionable. Yes, taking good care for your kid is obviously commendable, important and the right thing to do, but for Rose it has gone so far, that she doesn't even know what to do with herself, when her daughter isn't around to be cared for. That is also the reason, why she immediately starts to take care of Edwin and/or Ian, whenever they are around.

A second aspect is that she - for obvious reasons - hates to feel indebted to someone. And I don't only mean the money she owes to the loan shark. It feels like whenever Edwin (or Ian) does something for her, she feels the need to give at least something back. A meal for example or just making them feel good through sex. For her sex is something she does seem to enjoy more and more, but it is also an easy way for her to pay someone back, even if that person just meant it as a favor and doesn't even want anything in return.

At least so far she hasn't really shown any deeper feelings towards Edward in my opinion and I don't think she has space in her heart for anyone but her daughter.

That said she won't skip state after all is said and done, since she explicitly stated she doesn't want to uproot her daughter (circling back to my first point, she is so obsessed with her daughter that she rather goes through the events in the club instead of inconvenience her daughter), but I don't see her and Edwin get into a stable and committed relationship at the end. At least not from the point in the story we're now at and if I interpret TD's comment right, not all the LI paths will lead to a "happily ever after".

I can see a happily ever after for Hana, Mina and it seems to develop for Frankie as well and probably an affair with Felicia (I mean she already is married), but with Rose? Even if she would be younger...right now I don't see a logical path to reach a ending in which here and Edwin are in some form of committed relationship.

 

[se20299]

I think there are multiple things at play here. First and foremost its Rose's almost obsession about her daughter to the point it becomes almost questionable. Yes, taking good care for your kid is obviously commendable, important and the right thing to do, but for Rose it has gone so far, that she doesn't even know what to do with herself, when her daughter isn't around to be cared for. That is also the reason, why she immediately starts to take care of Edwin and/or Ian, whenever they are around.

A second aspect is that she - for obvious reasons - hates to feel indebted to someone. And I don't only mean the money she owes to the loan shark. It feels like whenever Edwin (or Ian) does something for her, she feels the need to give at least something back. A meal for example or just making them feel good through sex. For her sex is something she does seem to enjoy more and more, but it is also an easy way for her to pay someone back, even if that person just meant it as a favor and doesn't even want anything in return.

At least so far she hasn't really shown any deeper feelings towards Edward in my opinion and I don't think she has space in her heart for anyone but her daughter.

That said she won't skip state after all is said and done, since she explicitly stated she doesn't want to uproot her daughter (circling back to my first point, she is so obsessed with her daughter that she rather goes through the events in the club instead of inconvenience her daughter), but I don't see her and Edwin get into a stable and committed relationship at the end. At least not from the point in the story we're now at and if I interpret TD's comment right, not all the LI paths will lead to a "happily ever after".

I can see a happily ever after for Hana, Mina and it seems to develop for Frankie as well and probably an affair with Felicia (I mean she already is married), but with Rose? Even if she would be younger...right now I don't see a logical path to reach a ending in which here and Edwin are in some form of committed relationship.

Wow, you phrased my comment better than I did! Thank you for that. That's exactly what I was trying to say. Rose is by far the most unhealthy and toxic LI option for Edwin, both due to Edwin's mommy issues and Rose's parallels with Vicky, along with the fact that Edwin still hasn't fully come to terms with the duality of his mom being a "saint" and her porn career, which he noticebly struggles with during his interactions with Rose, and he unfairly projects many of his unacknowledged issues with his mom onto Rose, and he hasn't even begun to unpack his mommy issues.

There's also the fact that Rose has gotten out of a long lived toxic relationship, and I don't think she has a good framework of a healthy relationship, judging by her using sex as a currency, instead of something she wants to do. And her doting on Edwin unknowingly stirs up his mommy issues, which Rose has no idea about. There's also her daughter, who will always come first for Rose, as she should. But that's unfair towards a young man like Edwin who needs a partner fully devoted to him and who won't judge him and who will support him (Hana *wink wink*). I think both Edwin and Rose have far too much baggage to be good partners to each other, and they bring out each other's worst impulses.

Hell, I think even Kat would be a more healthy and balanced LI for Edwin, just by the fact that Kat knows who she is and is upfront about her preferences and intentions, while I get the sense that Rose, and Edwin to a lesser extent, don't know what they want.

 

[Turret]

Now this is a story all about how, Rose's life got flipped, turned upside down..

And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there...

I'll tell you how she's the Princess of a town called Bel-Air

...

Wait, wrong theme song...

I don't think useful idiot is quite the word for this one. Edwin has chances to go out of his way for all the girls and Rose responds accordingly. You can certainly exploit her and see a more vicious side, but someone on YOUR side for getting a bit of breathing room on finances hits different when you're out of your league on an issue. Rose has extraordinary circumstances and was thrust into it. So how she sees Edwin is in relation to what he's doing to help her with a bit of this also overlapping with assisting all the girls in knowing each other while also having them compete. What was stated before was that Rose is adaptable and that's her greatest strength. Girl certainly knows how to use it.

Still haven't gone through the new update but I think both Vicky and Rose are compartmentalizing what they have to do. We know there's social ramifications with Vicky but that princess is in an office castle so isn't quite dealing with her career. And no matter how much you cash this out, the ramifications and experience still hit you... We just don't know how yet.

I'm not understanding this one... Rose MIGHT look into something short term with Edwin or she won't. It's really not up to us at this time. We gotta see how the story flows. But I do know that if Rose gets help on the debt, there's a certain gratitude to that. But seriously, I'd put this as highly speculative. I'll leave it at that.

My honest feeling is that I would consider Rose getting rid of her debt and move away with her daughter a satisfying, good story end. Same with Veronica saving her gym and getting back with her wife. Felicia? I guess a really good Felicia ending would be Felicia getting a divorce and having her own children and becoming a painter in a distant future.

I don't see why I should consider Edwin starting a stable relationship with a Carnation as the only good Carnations' endings.

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them: why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

I think there are multiple things at play here. First and foremost its Rose's almost obsession about her daughter to the point it becomes almost questionable. Yes, taking good care for your kid is obviously commendable, important and the right thing to do, but for Rose it has gone so far, that she doesn't even know what to do with herself, when her daughter isn't around to be cared for. That is also the reason, why she immediately starts to take care of Edwin and/or Ian, whenever they are around.

A second aspect is that she - for obvious reasons - hates to feel indebted to someone. And I don't only mean the money she owes to the loan shark. It feels like whenever Edwin (or Ian) does something for her, she feels the need to give at least something back. A meal for example or just making them feel good through sex. For her sex is something she does seem to enjoy more and more, but it is also an easy way for her to pay someone back, even if that person just meant it as a favor and doesn't even want anything in return.

At least so far she hasn't really shown any deeper feelings towards Edward in my opinion and I don't think she has space in her heart for anyone but her daughter.

That said she won't skip state after all is said and done, since she explicitly stated she doesn't want to uproot her daughter (circling back to my first point, she is so obsessed with her daughter that she rather goes through the events in the club instead of inconvenience her daughter), but I don't see her and Edwin get into a stable and committed relationship at the end. At least not from the point in the story we're now at and if I interpret TD's comment right, not all the LI paths will lead to a "happily ever after".

I can see a happily ever after for Hana, Mina and it seems to develop for Frankie as well and probably an affair with Felicia (I mean she already is married), but with Rose? Even if she would be younger...right now I don't see a logical path to reach a ending in which here and Edwin are in some form of committed relationship.

Hi!
There are good reasons due to circumstances, personality and Eagle Eye view, why I consider Hana, Felicia and Sophia in front of e.g. Mina or Rosi for a relationship.
Hana is rather self-explaining to anyone playing the game. They can form a nice bond, do not judge and want to support the other. There is a happy ending for them in the cards, with kids of their own, in and out of the Club.

Felicia might be an epicurean artist (she actually has won several prices already), who became a gold digger, but she has never forgotten her roots, which is why she wants to save/reopen her old school. Which is the reason she is in the competition at all. Felicia might love sex, but as we can see in the game she is one of Epikur´s children, so she sucks big time at taking and dishing out punishment. She is also one of the most intelligent persons in the game. In addition, she is developing a crush on Edwin, just look at her reaction when you decide to go with her to the art exhibtion for free.
I definitely can see a rather happy ending of Felicia and Edwin, with kids of their own, both inside and outside the Club.

While I know what several other members will say and I am aware of the general situation who are the main LIs of the game, Sophia Lundgren is one of the best fits for Edwin. Both are socially challenged Nerds with a lot of life baggage they carry around. But they can click together (depending on your choices) to the point they banter a bit during the "home invasion". Edwin is aware that quite a bit of their rime together was a test for something, but as we can see with their makeout session in the blue room, they have a connection. Sophia could have sat out this thing without blinking, but she chose to get involved.

I know that Sophia is a dangerous and calculating woman, but she is also a very straight, blunt, eccentric person. She is hardly the best choice to hear out someone. That Sophia and Edwin can click together as well is because they are more alike than some might think they are.
I can definitely see a possible happy ending for those two, along with a couple of nerd kids.

I would put even Dahlia and Mina in front of Rosi and Vera as happy LI choices!

 

[ename144]

My honest feeling is that I would consider Rose getting rid of her debt and move away with her daughter a satisfying, good story end. Same with Veronica saving her gym and getting back with her wife. Felicia? I guess a really good Felicia ending would be Felicia getting a divorce and having her own children and becoming a painter in a distant future.

I don't see why I should consider Edwin starting a stable relationship with a Carnation as the only good Carnations' endings.

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them: why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

I'd consider those scenarios to be good, satisfying endings, but I wouldn't consider Rosalind, Veronica or Felicia to be Love Interests in them. They'd effectively be side-girls writ large: someone we can have sex with during the game, but not someone we can ride off into the sunset with. I don't think that distinction has anything to do with Patreon funding.

Also, given that TD has often stated hentai games are a big inspiration, this is an odd place to complain about hentai tropes derailing a game.

 

[Biscardone]

My honest feeling is that I would consider Rose getting rid of her debt and move away with her daughter a satisfying, good story end. Same with Veronica saving her gym and getting back with her wife. Felicia? I guess a really good Felicia ending would be Felicia getting a divorce and having her own children and becoming a painter in a distant future.

I don't see why I should consider Edwin starting a stable relationship with a Carnation as the only good Carnations' endings.

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them: why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

Well, expecting the protagonist of a VN being somewhat involved with the Love Interests in their dedicated endings is not something unreasonable, I think. And in any case, there are a lot of different ways in which the scenarios could play out. Even in the world of hentai VNs there are a lot of different examples that could be drawn upon.

Take Starless, for example, one of TD's most direct inspirations: I'd argue there isn't a single good ending in there, you end up broken in a different way in each one of them. What's more, you have no way of ending in a relationship with many of the female cast members, and if you pursue to the bitter end one of the arguably most interesting characters (Sachie) you'll reach one of the worst endings.

Another example. Crescendo, one of VNs I'm most fond of, has a different take on good and bad endings. One of the bad endings (Yuka's one) has to be one of my favorite of all times: you don't end up with the girl you pursued, but you meet her years later, and find a way to reconnect with her in a bittersweet, yet hopeful finale.

In the end, it's not the tropes - it's how you handle them. We'll have to see what TD and GIL have in store for us, but if their endings manage to be narratively and thematically coherent and resonant with the characters, I doubt I'll have complaints with them, irrespective of them being good or bad, conventional or unconventional. I'll make a spoilery parallel:

Spoiler: One of Baldur's Gate 3 finales

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[TD1900]

Also, given that TD has often stated hentai games are a big inspiration, this is an odd place to complain about hentai tropes derailing a game.

It is an overwhelming inspiration, yes.

However, romance is an element of the game because I like romance. Maybe, not as much as I like seeing Kathleen torment the Carnations, but variety is the spice of life. Especially in a 10+ hour visual novel that is your sole focus for years on end.

For example of what I consider a romantic moment, Edwin and Veronica swapping a bottle while walking along a moonlit pier tickles the cinematic part of my brain in ways that make me giddy. The whole time we were executing that sequence, I was gushing to GIL that his work felt like something out a movie. And that's usually where my head is at when it comes to dramatic beats and character moments; emulating the sweeping, magical feeling that watching a film gives you.

So I wouldn't say romance is an element of the project because of the conventional five-heroine charage. It's just that stories in general contain romance: movies, comics, books, visual novels... and to Otto's point, sometimes that is to the narrative's detriment, but we'll see if we stick the landing.

 

[dolfe67]

Romance can take multiple forms, even the most unexpected ones. I don't see why MC can't end up with a carnation. Best love stories are the ones where the odds are against the protagonists.

 

[ename144]

It is an overwhelming inspiration, yes.

However, romance is an element of the game because I like romance. Maybe, not as much as I like seeing Kathleen torment the Carnations, but variety is the spice of life. Especially in a 10+ hour visual novel that is your sole focus for years on end.

For example of what I consider a romantic moment, Edwin and Veronica swapping a bottle while walking along a moonlit pier tickles the cinematic part of my brain in ways that make me giddy. The whole time we were executing that sequence, I was gushing to GIL that his work felt like something out a movie. And that's usually where my head is at when it comes to dramatic beats and character moments; emulating the sweeping, magical feeling that watching a film gives you.

So I wouldn't say romance is an element of the project because of the conventional five-heroine charage. It's just that stories in general contain romance: movies, comics, books, visual novels... and to Otto's point, sometimes that is to the narrative's detriment, but we'll see if we stick the landing.

Speaking as someone who's here for the romance more than the torment, I don't think the two have clashed to either's detriment thus far. If anything, I think the interplay has benefited both of them. The torments make us worry about the characters, but the romantic moments (sexual or platonic) give us a reason to hope in the face of those threats. Too many stories, IMHO, botch that last element by inflating the threats to such a degree that hope feels like a delusional afterthought. Giving both their proper time in the spotlight is essential.

Obviously the balance will get harder as we progress and the ending will be the acid test, but as I said I think there are ways to pay off the romances with a 'happy' ending that don't invalidate the torments - assuming we choose to go in that direction, of course. I have faith you and GIL will stick the landing with style.

No pressure.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them

I very much agree with this.

why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

I very much disagree with this. Both for the (1) goal and the (2) reasoning.

1) I want a lot of romance in my stories, and I want happy endings involving a relationship.

2) The first fragment I quoted IS a big problem in a lot of non-hentai VNs, but it generally pushes things away from romance. "Corruption" is big (god I hate that word), strife and competition over girls is big, but things like holding hands, kissing, joking, stroking? Yeah not so much. Everything under the umbrella of flirting or foreplay tends to be oddly absent.

While I know what several other members will say and I am aware of the general situation who are the main LIs of the game, Sophia Lundgren is one of the best fits for Edwin. Both are socially challenged Nerds with a lot of life baggage they carry around. But they can click together (depending on your choices) to the point they banter a bit during the "home invasion". Edwin is aware that quite a bit of their rime together was a test for something, but as we can see with their makeout session in the blue room, they have a connection. Sophia could have sat out this thing without blinking, but she chose to get involved.

Agreed on Sophia, they feel like two puzzle pieces together and fit well in conversation.

Also your analysis of Felicia is a big part of what I'm so sympathetic to her; despite her facade of blonde bimbo, she hints at being both intelligent and altruistic, the latter an extremely rare trait in the PaleCanations universe.

 

[se20299]

Well, expecting the protagonist of a VN being somewhat involved with the Love Interests in their dedicated endings is not something unreasonable, I think. And in any case, there are a lot of different ways in which the scenarios could play out. Even in the world of hentai VNs there are a lot of different examples that could be drawn upon.

Take Starless, for example, one of TD's most direct inspirations: I'd argue there isn't a single good ending in there, you end up broken in a different way in each one of them. What's more, you have no way of ending in a relationship with many of the female cast members, and if you pursue to the bitter end one of the arguably most interesting characters (Sachie) you'll reach one of the worst endings.

Another example. Crescendo, one of VNs I'm most fond of, has a different take on good and bad endings. One of the bad endings (Yuka's one) has to be one of my favorite of all times: you don't end up with the girl you pursued, but you meet her years later, and find a way to reconnect with her in a bittersweet, yet hopeful finale.

In the end, it's not the tropes - it's how you handle them. We'll have to see what TD and GIL have in store for us, but if their endings manage to be narratively and thematically coherent and resonant with the characters, I doubt I'll have complaints with them, irrespective of them being good or bad, conventional or unconventional. I'll make a spoilery parallel:

Spoiler: One of Baldur's Gate 3 finales

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I get really annoyed by people coming in here and bitching about NTR, sharing, harems, demaning a romantic ending etc. Go play a moege if you're looking for a sweet romance. Pale Carnations is first and foremost a story about sexual perversion and the dark side of people's sexuality. Vast majority of the characters are fundamentally broken people incapable of having a healthy relationship, forced by various circumstances to participate in the club. I feel like most endings will be bittersweet, and demanding "good" romantic endings just misses the point of the whole game. Most of these people were broken by the club, or were already broken. Some people will never get their happy ending, and I think it's obvious that most of these characters will meet a bad end one way or the other.

 

[Biscardone]

I get really annoyed by people coming in here and bitching about NTR, sharing, harems, demaning a romantic ending etc. Go play a moege if you're looking for a sweet romance. Pale Carnations is first and foremost a story about sexual perversion and the dark side of people's sexuality. Vast majority of the characters are fundamentally broken people incapable of having a healthy relationship, forced by various circumstances to participate in the club. I feel like most endings will be bittersweet, and demanding "good" romantic endings just misses the point of the whole game. Most of these people were broken by the club, or were already broken. Some people will never get their happy ending, and I think it's obvious that most of these characters will meet a bad end one way or the other.

While I can see where you're coming from, you may want to read TD's post just below mine, and adjust your expectations accordingly.
I'll just repeat myself: I'm quite confident in TD's and GIL's writing chops, and their skills in balancing two extremes (hope and despair) in a tonally coherent ensemble. To me, given the good screenwriting we've seen so far, narrative coherence trumps all other aspects. In other words: I'm in for the ride, wherever it lands.

 

[Turret]

Agreed on Sophia, they feel like two puzzle pieces together and fit well in conversation.

Also your analysis of Felicia is a big part of what I'm so sympathetic to her; despite her facade of blonde bimbo, she hints at being both intelligent and altruistic, the latter an extremely rare trait in the PaleCanations universe.

Thank you!
For Sophia: Definitely, they really are like two fitting puzzle pieces and I think this is not by chance. You know I hope that we will get a Sophia path in PC, despite her being a "latecomer" in the game as far as interesting women go. Hopefully TD and GIL see the potential here, romancing such an amoral and eccentric girl as Doc Sophia is would be a very different tasty experience, hardly the typical dating we see in VNs.

For Felicia: If you play her route just a little bit it becomes obvious that Felicia has the "biggest" facade of all 3 Carnations. Her outside is a Holly Golightly persona, inside she is an intelligent woman artist with more altruism than most in the Pale Carnations universe. She is in PC to gain influence/money to save her old school, if you ask her for money for Rosi, she will give it to you. What might be also overlooked, Feli is the one Carnation we met before the Club and she knows us players a bit better than Rosi or Veronika do. We can make a good impression on her quite early and if keeping to it that shows when we go to Feli´s special place and agree to go with her to the art exhibition. It is clear she is developing feelings for Edwin.
Among the Carnations Felicia is the one who can see beyond Edwin being their "handler" the easiest.

 

[Ungawa]

I get really annoyed by people coming in here and bitching about NTR, sharing, harems, demaning a romantic ending etc. Go play a moege if you're looking for a sweet romance. Pale Carnations is first and foremost a story about sexual perversion and the dark side of people's sexuality. Vast majority of the characters are fundamentally broken people incapable of having a healthy relationship, forced by various circumstances to participate in the club. I feel like most endings will be bittersweet, and demanding "good" romantic endings just misses the point of the whole game. Most of these people were broken by the club, or were already broken. Some people will never get their happy ending, and I think it's obvious that most of these characters will meet a bad end one way or the other.

Ya know... Not every bad person gets that karmic backlash. Some of them tend to be Karmic Houdinis that escape the bad ending they look to dish out.

But I'd argue that Pale Carnations takes a LOT of influence from Alice in Wonderland and the look at two sides of the coin in its duality. In order to know the light side, you have to be able to look into the dark side.

Even then, some of the darkest characters can bring out a LOT from those depths that some people aren't quite willing to go. Really, the story is built up on this where you won't learn as much about the Carnations unless you push them. Even then, Kathleen (arguably the darkest character in the Club) brings about MORE that you can chew on. I know I've talked about Veronica being such a pervert right along with how Kathleen hits her with a receipt while also knowing how one tracked that girl is (ex: she insisted on talking to Kathleen with a bad plan right before getting stung for it with the tasers) but once you crack her center, she really shows how fragile she can be when it's not something she's used to. Each character brings so much to the table and I find the relationships interesting as the VN expands.

 

[Ottoeight]

Ya know... Not every bad person gets that karmic backlash. Some of them tend to be Karmic Houdinis that escape the bad ending they look to dish out.

But I'd argue that Pale Carnations takes a LOT of influence from Alice in Wonderland and the look at two sides of the coin in its duality. In order to know the light side, you have to be able to look into the dark side.

Even then, some of the darkest characters can bring out a LOT from those depths that some people aren't quite willing to go. Really, the story is built up on this where you won't learn as much about the Carnations unless you push them. Even then, Kathleen (arguably the darkest character in the Club) brings about MORE that you can chew on. I know I've talked about Veronica being such a pervert right along with how Kathleen hits her with a receipt while also knowing how one tracked that girl is (ex: she insisted on talking to Kathleen with a bad plan right before getting stung for it with the tasers) but once you crack her center, she really shows how fragile she can be when it's not something she's used to. Each character brings so much to the table and I find the relationships interesting as the VN expands.

Question to everybody: is Kathleen the darkest/worst character?

I'm not so sure: how about Warren? August? how about that member who beat a girl and she got hospitalised?

What do you think?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Question to everybody: is Kathleen the darkest/worst character?

Yes.

I'm not so sure: how about Warren? August? how about that member who beat a girl and she got hospitalised?

August at least seems to live by a creed. Warren is just a dime a dozen thug.

 

[misfolk]

Question to everybody: is Kathleen the darkest/worst character?

I'm not so sure: how about Warren? August? how about that member who beat a girl and she got hospitalised?

What do you think?

I would bet on Uncle Chuck being the worst. Everyone else has a dark side that is not a big secret at all: Warren is a violent thug, August is a mob boss, Kathleen is a sadist. Uncle Chuck is an amicable college professor who lets you in on a secret that his dark side is being a co-proprietor of an exclusive brothel. After this the shutters go up and you continue to interact with fundamentally the same mask of his as before. He's just a libertine and a bon vivant, too deep in pussy to notice that the club is about destroying people's lives and souls.

 

[Birdnman993]

Question to everybody: is Kathleen the darkest/worst character?

So far she seems like the worst person, I don't care what the doctor says she is the lesser evil.

I'm not so sure: how about Warren? August? how about that member who beat a girl and she got hospitalised?

Warren is just a thug who would put a bullet between his eyes without hesitation.

August as a mobster has surely done a lot of terrible things, but if we stick to the current time he would say that at least he has principles and values family.

Uncle Chuck is difficult to classify because I have a feeling he may be very dark, my only conclusion so far is that the club is his amusement park and he sees all women as dolls for his entertainment without caring in the slightest about their well-being, which which he makes very clear when Edwin goes to him to ask for help with Rosalind's situation, but the worst thing is how he is expressing his twisted vision of the world to his nephew.

 

[Ungawa]

Question to everybody: is Kathleen the darkest/worst character?

I'm not so sure: how about Warren? August? how about that member who beat a girl and she got hospitalised?

What do you think?

Her character really sells it.

We know she's full blown psychosadist.

August has a certain set of standards that you can get behind or leave behind. Remember that he stopped a young recruit from getting his tongue burned.

Chuck is only accepting of family being harmed in which he'll do harm. But he's not above darkness as his games with Sophia show.

Warren is a gun to be directed while Jacob has a bit of compassion and can take care of things as muscle. But Jacob's secret is his empathy which can mean he's easier to be controlled as the entire Emma episode showed. Warren is basically ruthless and the wolf comes out of him.

For the most part, the patrons are darkness and the Club enables it but you have certain people that have something in them that motivates them to care outside of money. Ian, August do care about the girls a bit more. Meanwhile, Chuck and Kathleen just want to pursue their interests. But the reason this one works comes to, again, Kathleen. Honest about her intentions, high class, side deals and hustles... I point to Kathleen because that's where you go from brothel ideas of Chuck and August to forcing expired sperm down the gullet of Veronica and screwing her by forcing a tarantula on her back which is *chef's kiss* for "We aren't in Kansas anymore"