- Jun 15, 2021
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Veronica and Hana are my favorites. Love the secret society vibe that this game has.
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- Dec 29, 2017
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So i was wondering to what extend empathy is a necessary precondition for friendship and love and how this would relate to Kathleens sadism.
Although there seem to be a general understanding on the concept of empathy, it is actually a rather amorphous and ill-defined trait. Apparently there are like 43 different definitions and classifications in current psychological scientific literature about this.
Without going into greater detail there seems to be a common trend to differentiate at least between the concepts of functional or cognitive empathy and emotional or authentic empathy.
The first one entails the ability to conclude from external signs and non-verbal communication of our counterpart onto their internal emotional state. It looks like e.g. people on the autism spectrum especially struggle with this kind, and therefore get attributed with a lack of empathy. Autists need to decode "They make a 'sad' face, this means they feel sadness; they are laughing, therefore they are probably happy." it doesn't come "naturally" to them. This kind of empathy is trainable, and there are management courses which are focused on that, to boost for instance success with sales and HR management.
The second one is about being able to mirror our counterparts feelings and to invoke compassion for them (although there are definitions which seperate compassion from empathy). Now this seems to be rooted a bit deeper in our brains, located primarily in the limbic system. A part of that seems to be evolutionary hard-coded, while another part seems to be malleable to a certain degree. Which means tinkering with emotional empathy is considerably harder, but not impossible. Two examples would be telling toddlers that they hurt others, if they hit their peers in the sandbox, which normally leads them to stop this behaviour; and training child-soldiers to be insensitive towards their victims by repeatedly ordering them to conduct atrocities.
So in this setting i would like to view sadism rather as a medical condition than a mere kink.
Since no human can survive alone, Empathy is an important evolutionary trait which enables humans to operate appropriatly in their social surroundings. Grieving for a beloved lost one with your family is important to strengthen your mutual bonds, enjoying similar activities is often needed to establish new ones. Whereas poisoning the tribes water-supply, because one of them strives for the suffering of others is highly detrimental to the overall survivability.
Now Kathleens problem, and more generally the problem of sadism is, that it connects the "wrong", the "inappropriate" emotions. Reportedly Kat tore off the heads of her sisters dolls as a child, i doubt she would have done this, if she had not gained any positive feelings from that. So instead of appropriatly mirroring her sisters sadness, anger and frustration, she probably felt joy and accomplishment. Also Kathleen told Edwin, that she lost friends because she was unable to show the expected feelings towards them. Which is understandable, because most people would be creeped out by a friend laughing with visible delight at you, if you fell and scratched your knee bloody.
That doesn't mean Kathleen didn't want to have friends and this also doesn't mean that she is unable to interpret her counterparts feelings and feel something herself. It just does mean that her condition triggers the "wrong" emotional response. Kathleen has empathy, else her sadism would be pointless, since she would not be able to gain any emotion from someone else, but her emotional empathy connects to a false response.
Kathleen had to learn the hard way, if she wants to be her true self, she is unable to fit in society, therefore she trained her functional empathy to a point where she is able to express the "appropriate" emotional response in a given social situation.
However this puts a high amount of pressure and stress on her and she longs for a place where she can let loose, with the Carnation Club being that; in a way it is her sanctum, where she can be at peace with herself.
With that said, Kathleen is not impaired in having emotions at all, we have seen examples of anger, frustration, joy, amusement, boredom and placidity. I dare to say she is indeed capable of loving someone else, but keep in mind that love can be one-sided and unrequited, and her condition puts serious constraints on any "conventional" or "traditional" relationship. For instance i get the feeling that she really loved her sister, in her own way. Because making someone suffer, who is emotionally close to her should trigger a far bigger response than doing that to a random stranger, like we usually get way more affected if something bad happens to our family than the same thing happening to some people in e.g. africa.
I don't know what exactly RC-1138 Boss deems to be "true" friendship and love, and looking into those constructs would be easily another essay of at least this length, but if they mean "conventional" or "traditional" they are probably right.
However if we base love and friendship on terms like appreciation for each other, considering the wants and needs of each other and the desire to spent time with each other, there are possible pathways those two, Edwin and Kathleen, could take.
On a personal note: i view sadism as a highly antisocial and dangerous paraphilia, actually surpassed by only a few others like e.g. pedophilia (the real one with prepubescent children). There is a reason evolution has led mankind on a path where sadism is not very prevalent and should be considered an aberration. While this kink may have its merit as an erotic fantasy, i do believe it should be never acted out.
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- Apr 25, 2020
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- Apr 26, 2017
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- Feb 17, 2020
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As they should.
A man that can read you like a book while being unreadable is the most fearsome man. Chuck gives me the creeps. Yet, I find him very interesting.
- Apr 8, 2018
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I think you mean Veronica I don't recall a Victoria. Hana's also my favorite along with Mina.
- Jul 8, 2018
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- Apr 8, 2018
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- Jul 8, 2018
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It happens. Lord knows there's a lot to take in when playing PC.
- Apr 26, 2017
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- 20,405
It is in the way he talks and makes facial expressions sometimes. Like when he is speaking about how the carnation club previous assistent won't bother them again.
I wouldn't be surprised if he already let his darker tempers show inside the club in front of other members.
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- Sep 20, 2018
- 3,454
- 14,245
New Dev Diary today!
The news sounds pretty good. In the last 16 days TD and GIL have completed 263 static images, 3 animations and 5855 words, an average of roughly 115 statics, 1.3 animations and 2560 words per week. Overall, they are now averaging ~119 statics, 1.3 animations and 2650 words per week since work on Chapter 4 began.
Whether that confirms TD's estimate depends on how you define average. As you'll be able to see from the slope of the lines on the upcoming charts, these rates match or exceed the output in the previous dev diary, but they're below the pace set during the first report of the update. With only three data points it's hard to say definitively which one is the outlier. If we compare this to the overall average from Chapter 3 Update 4 (~123 statics, 4.2 animations, and 2870 words/week), we're nearly even on statics and Words but well behind on animations. So I'd say TD is only partially correct, thought to be fair animation numbers vary a lot week to week and tend to be low at first. At any rate, enough of my words, let's get to the charts:
In keeping with our discussion on averages, we can see animations appear to be the gating item at the moment. That said, it sounds like Chapter 3 Update 4 may not be the best baseline for Ch4Up1; things improve a bit if we look at Ch3Up1 instead. That was likewise a lull after the exhibition and it sounds like it was similarly structured - starting with a bunch of low-key scenes leading up to a big event in the evening. If we go by those alternate baselines the slow animation rate is less of an outlier, though we'll still need GIL to pull off his usual increase in animation production as development continues. Since words are a new category I don't have much sense for how their rate fluctuates over time yet, but that's okay because I also don't have a Ch3 Up1 number to compare them too. 
It's hard to say exactly where we stand, but I still think we're doing pretty well. I like the idea of a short, focused update; I thought Ch3 Up1 worked extremely well, so making another update in that style is a great move in my book. The items TD mentioned for Ch4 Up1 sound really interesting and should be a good segue into subsequent updates while still giving us a beat to take stock of where things stand after all the sturm und drang of the exhibition. Definitely looking forward to it.
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The news sounds pretty good. In the last 16 days TD and GIL have completed 263 static images, 3 animations and 5855 words, an average of roughly 115 statics, 1.3 animations and 2560 words per week. Overall, they are now averaging ~119 statics, 1.3 animations and 2650 words per week since work on Chapter 4 began.
Whether that confirms TD's estimate depends on how you define average. As you'll be able to see from the slope of the lines on the upcoming charts, these rates match or exceed the output in the previous dev diary, but they're below the pace set during the first report of the update. With only three data points it's hard to say definitively which one is the outlier. If we compare this to the overall average from Chapter 3 Update 4 (~123 statics, 4.2 animations, and 2870 words/week), we're nearly even on statics and Words but well behind on animations. So I'd say TD is only partially correct, thought to be fair animation numbers vary a lot week to week and tend to be low at first. At any rate, enough of my words, let's get to the charts:
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It's hard to say exactly where we stand, but I still think we're doing pretty well. I like the idea of a short, focused update; I thought Ch3 Up1 worked extremely well, so making another update in that style is a great move in my book. The items TD mentioned for Ch4 Up1 sound really interesting and should be a good segue into subsequent updates while still giving us a beat to take stock of where things stand after all the sturm und drang of the exhibition. Definitely looking forward to it.
I am so PUMPED for the next update. The relationship with Hana is finally about to get serious and as she is definitely my favourite girl, I am teetering in anticipation.
As someone who enjoys friendzoning LIs, it's been almost satisfying to turn down other LIs like Felicia and Mina on subsequent playthroughs, much as I love them both. But aside from the first time I played, I could never bring myself to turn down Hana.
In fact, I suspect that the character has had no small part to play in my rediscovered interest in goth girls recently...
As someone who enjoys friendzoning LIs, it's been almost satisfying to turn down other LIs like Felicia and Mina on subsequent playthroughs, much as I love them both. But aside from the first time I played, I could never bring myself to turn down Hana.
In fact, I suspect that the character has had no small part to play in my rediscovered interest in goth girls recently...
Depends on how you define chapters, but as an info for you, the current version of PC is about 40-50% of the game.
- Dec 8, 2017
- 828
- 7,932
There will be five chapters in total, plus the epilogues that make up the endings.
- Jan 2, 2020
- 13
- 23
Another rare gem among pebbles and I'm late to it as usual, both a blessing and a curse.. now can someone dump all the HanaMina pictures on me? Pretty please?
So after finally completing it. I can say I really enjoyed it.
The good (best from the top of my head)
Animations and VN screen to screen felt really well done. I enjoyed that nearly each transition screen, characters were constantly moving positions, eyes looking towards different places, different expressions, People in the background were moving. Got the impression alot of time was spent making the scenes flow. I apricate that. Character models also very pretty.
The bad
Well I kinda got sick of the MCs moral policing, just about at every turn of the game. He always comes back to whinging, how this is not a nice place, or that this is depraved or its some shithole. Its a high end VIP brothel work place, not a dirty corner one with bad hygiene. Yet we are allowed to do depraved stuff (which makes the game fun). He'd go out and preform on the show, then go back to complaining about it after. Maybe its a little hard to describe. I share the same view Felicia pointed out.. "Noones holding a gun to their heads" They've all signed up for fast easy money out of desperation or not. High pay, humiliating work. If they want a stable job, go work in a fast food joint on minimum wage. That being said, I do enjoy seeing the MCs constant care for the girls even if he uses "its his job" as an excuse. Its the Moral policing he constantly does that gets annoying. If it was more about the customers rather than the place itself, it'd ease this problem. I got the impression he was suppose to be a delinquent as a child too.
The Characters
Well out of the Carnations, I got the feeling Rosalind is going to win. Unfortunately havent been able to do anything outside of the clubs work with her, but I did choose trying to help with her debt problem, so maybe that leads to something down the line. Chose to see if I can help Veronica too, but shes kinda my least fav of the 3 (even tho I like really tall girls), but havent really felt like we have gelled, maybe it will change if I solve her gym problem, seeing as I've predicted her loosing and shes already 2-0 down. Not much to say on Felicia, but I like her.
Hana, not really into girls with tats, but shes a nice friendly one (black hair yellow eyes is kinda nice). Im kinda hoping now that shes taken on a new role in the club, she could become a little bit corrupted ? Say like that last show she was made to sit through for the first time, Observing her "crush" at work, she'd start having those twisted feelings she never knew or felt before (as was said by someone, she has porno star in her blood). But of course, I expect the changes she hopefully makes is towards the girls safety. Some of those customers are.... not good. She could do alot in that area if she can grab the riens.
Mina, well my favorite one of the bunch. Obviously one girl I wanted to see corrupted heavily, but her recent reveal about her many fantasies and willing to experiment, its on a good path ^_~ . For as bubbly as she is, shes been one starved girl. her bi-curious trait gives me hope for 3-somes with Felicia and Hana in the future.
The game also employs the only NTR I do like, thats the MC taking other girls, married or not. As much as I like Ian in the sense hes your best mate , yep taking Mina too. He'll just have to deal being 3rd wheel. Not like he hasnt earned it with the player he is.
Not going to go into more characters, but I liked the cast on a whole. Each character felt like they had a place. Im sure we see more of the house girls in future updates.
Good game, think its really up their in quality. I like the background choices giving a little more flavour to the game. Nice touch.
Look forward to more.
The good (best from the top of my head)
Animations and VN screen to screen felt really well done. I enjoyed that nearly each transition screen, characters were constantly moving positions, eyes looking towards different places, different expressions, People in the background were moving. Got the impression alot of time was spent making the scenes flow. I apricate that. Character models also very pretty.
The bad
Well I kinda got sick of the MCs moral policing, just about at every turn of the game. He always comes back to whinging, how this is not a nice place, or that this is depraved or its some shithole. Its a high end VIP brothel work place, not a dirty corner one with bad hygiene. Yet we are allowed to do depraved stuff (which makes the game fun). He'd go out and preform on the show, then go back to complaining about it after. Maybe its a little hard to describe. I share the same view Felicia pointed out.. "Noones holding a gun to their heads" They've all signed up for fast easy money out of desperation or not. High pay, humiliating work. If they want a stable job, go work in a fast food joint on minimum wage. That being said, I do enjoy seeing the MCs constant care for the girls even if he uses "its his job" as an excuse. Its the Moral policing he constantly does that gets annoying. If it was more about the customers rather than the place itself, it'd ease this problem. I got the impression he was suppose to be a delinquent as a child too.
The Characters
Well out of the Carnations, I got the feeling Rosalind is going to win. Unfortunately havent been able to do anything outside of the clubs work with her, but I did choose trying to help with her debt problem, so maybe that leads to something down the line. Chose to see if I can help Veronica too, but shes kinda my least fav of the 3 (even tho I like really tall girls), but havent really felt like we have gelled, maybe it will change if I solve her gym problem, seeing as I've predicted her loosing and shes already 2-0 down. Not much to say on Felicia, but I like her.
Hana, not really into girls with tats, but shes a nice friendly one (black hair yellow eyes is kinda nice). Im kinda hoping now that shes taken on a new role in the club, she could become a little bit corrupted ? Say like that last show she was made to sit through for the first time, Observing her "crush" at work, she'd start having those twisted feelings she never knew or felt before (as was said by someone, she has porno star in her blood
). But of course, I expect the changes she hopefully makes is towards the girls safety. Some of those customers are.... not good. She could do alot in that area if she can grab the riens.Mina, well my favorite one of the bunch. Obviously one girl I wanted to see corrupted heavily, but her recent reveal about her many fantasies and willing to experiment, its on a good path ^_~ . For as bubbly as she is, shes been one starved girl. her bi-curious trait gives me hope for 3-somes with Felicia and Hana in the future.
The game also employs the only NTR I do like, thats the MC taking other girls, married or not. As much as I like Ian in the sense hes your best mate , yep taking Mina too. He'll just have to deal being 3rd wheel
. Not like he hasnt earned it with the player he is.Not going to go into more characters, but I liked the cast on a whole. Each character felt like they had a place. Im sure we see more of the house girls in future updates.
Good game, think its really up their in quality. I like the background choices giving a little more flavour to the game. Nice touch.
Look forward to more.
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- May 17, 2022
- 621
- 847
So, we might get PC, Eternum and BaD in the next couple of months, we eatin good boys!
Ah I see. Interesting concept. I didnt know that.
After I thought about it last night, I felt like it be nice if Felicia won, and if I could complete Veronicas saving her gym, and fixing Rosalinds debt, Everyone would kinda win then. Felica would be part of the clientele then too.
But I was judging Rosalind to win just on my gutt instinct from what I have seen. First week I did the photoshoot with Rosalind, but Felica won the 1st Carnation event. Veronica finshed last and thus had the penalty game. But I spent my time with Hana.
2nd week with all 3 photoshoots, I was asked by Kathleen who I liked most, and I went with Rosalind, mainly based on me being a depraved pervert who thinks hot girls peeing right in front of you is super hot. Veronica also did, but I felt more commitment from Rosalind (Hench why I was predicting she would win), Felicia won photoshoot vote, but Rosalind did go on to win the 2nd Carnation event after two votes from Hana and kathleen. Veronica once againt received the penalty.
So as it stands, Felicia 1, Rosalind 1, and Veronics finished last with both events (unless its some different type of scoring system ?). That seems to be the way my game has been going. So I guess me choosing Rosalind twice has put her favorite in the contest ?
After I thought about it last night, I felt like it be nice if Felicia won, and if I could complete Veronicas saving her gym, and fixing Rosalinds debt, Everyone would kinda win then. Felica would be part of the clientele then too.
But I was judging Rosalind to win just on my gutt instinct from what I have seen. First week I did the photoshoot with Rosalind, but Felica won the 1st Carnation event. Veronica finshed last and thus had the penalty game. But I spent my time with Hana.
2nd week with all 3 photoshoots, I was asked by Kathleen who I liked most, and I went with Rosalind, mainly based on me being a depraved pervert who thinks hot girls peeing right in front of you is super hot. Veronica also did, but I felt more commitment from Rosalind (Hench why I was predicting she would win), Felicia won photoshoot vote, but Rosalind did go on to win the 2nd Carnation event after two votes from Hana and kathleen. Veronica once againt received the penalty.
So as it stands, Felicia 1, Rosalind 1, and Veronics finished last with both events (unless its some different type of scoring system ?). That seems to be the way my game has been going. So I guess me choosing Rosalind twice has put her favorite in the contest ?
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Not really, we players have a lot of influence on the outcome of the contests. Not total or open influence, but we can squeeze and push a bit here and there, so our favourite can bag it. It is possible for all Carnations to win each week, but not equally easy or hard. For instance, the second week contest has a bias towards Rosi. Feli and Veronica can win this event too, but that is quite a bit harder.
As for who wins the contest in the end has been topic of discussion several times already. I personally think that Felicia winning could be the best outcome if we have a good wire to the three Carnations. Felicia would get a place among the PC patrons and her coveted influence to reopen the school in her hometown. Rosi´s "debts" are substantial, but neither Felicia nor the (new) Club leadership would break into a sweat covering them. Which could happen, if we have good relations with Feli and/or the Club leaders at the end. (If we aim for a goodish, but slightly corrupted PC leadership, a high libido Rosi might still be convinced to stay at PC for some "parttime" shifts)
In the case of Veronica I think her biggest win would be if we can convince her to start anew with another, better sized and located Gym. She could still live her dream and would be better off. Because let us face it, her current Gym was already in sinking condition BEFORE Sam started his meddling to make her situation even worse. It was a millstone around Veronica´s neck from the start.
From Kath´s PoV Veronica winning would be best. Even Veronica acknowledged that winning at PC would just be a bandaid, no cure. If Veronica wins, it is only a question of time until she is back at PC again. Rosi has to get rid of the debt her ass of a husband left her, so Rosi has to stay working at PC. Feli woulld still get a bit a of the influence she needs in the case she does not win (we see that she is popular at the club), so Feli might be gone, but for Kath a Veronica win would be best. Two for the price of one.
My speculations, mild spoilers maybe:
I'm bettinfg MC's dad worked for ths charity the club uses to find women, which he may have found out/maybe involed woth. Murdered maybe?
Victoria probsbly A) not left porn cuase she ended up being onto it or B) Got out of porn by being a Carnation and winning a previous game. Could also play into a long game scenario like Veronica where someone took out dad so mom would get desprite.
Hana's anger mechanic is probably gonna work like corruption and determine wjat kind of boss she is (epilogue kinda stuff) Kind vs ust
Somethong tells me Lucy is gonna be a high eaening/head girll by the end. She' expeimenring and lyong wothout batring an eye now
I can see a scenario where Felicia bails out the other 2 women since she has resources.
Not saying any of this IS happening, just speculating.
I'm bettinfg MC's dad worked for ths charity the club uses to find women, which he may have found out/maybe involed woth. Murdered maybe?
Victoria probsbly A) not left porn cuase she ended up being onto it or B) Got out of porn by being a Carnation and winning a previous game. Could also play into a long game scenario like Veronica where someone took out dad so mom would get desprite.
Hana's anger mechanic is probably gonna work like corruption and determine wjat kind of boss she is (epilogue kinda stuff) Kind vs ust
Somethong tells me Lucy is gonna be a high eaening/head girll by the end. She' expeimenring and lyong wothout batring an eye now
I can see a scenario where Felicia bails out the other 2 women since she has resources.
Not saying any of this IS happening, just speculating.