VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[shitass1001]

in fact I think there is a good chance that Ian will fuck MC's mother, especially following a more perverted route, like treating Rosalind like a piece of meat, we always see scenes of MC's mother being fucked in his porn, this happened in the last scene of this route in the recent update.

I see those scenes more as a way of adding some internal conflict for the MC, not as a hint for whats to come. The MC seeing flashbacks of the porn videos his mother was in during situations with Rosalind seems to be showing the similarities between their situations, and maybe a bit of hypocrisy for the MC.
From my analysis, Victoria doing porn in the first place is a window into how far she would go for the sake of her son, how much she is willing to sacrifice in order to make him have a good life. When the MC remembers how much of a shitter he was as a kid, its often in scenes where he also remembers the sacrifices she made.

We need to think in terms of how these characters are written and the relationships between them. As I see it, knowing what he knows about Ian, the MC would NEVER approve of Ian having sex with her, and Victoria would understand that having sex with Ian would be a major breach of trust. Also, despite being a complete idiot, Ian understands that the bond between the MC and his mom is very strong, and he values the relationship he has with the MC dearly (at least thats what I got from the story) he also knows that pursuing Victoria would irreparably damage his relationship with the MC, regardless of what path the MC is on.

Just because she did porn in the past, doesn't mean she wants to have sex with her sons best friend. Those two things are completely disconnected in terms of the story

 

[Turret]

We need to think in terms of how these characters are written and the relationships between them. As I see it, knowing what he knows about Ian, the MC would NEVER approve of Ian having sex with her,

I would not be so sure about that, esp. on the more positive paths and with high bromance scores. Edwin knows(!) that Ian is different from his usual behaviour when it comes to Vicki. That something along those lines might be in the cards on some paths is hinted at with what happens when we as the MC push Ian towards some introspection and planning for the future.
It is not his disco bunny Ian has with him these last nights, but Alice, who is also older than him.

 

[assman1337]

i played this long ago.... female domination content at that time was only lesbian at that time..... any such content with mc ?

 

[TD1900]

i played this long ago.... female domination content at that time was only lesbian at that time..... any such content with mc ?

There's a small smattering of femdom-ish vibes with Veronica and Kat (the most recent update featured a nice Amazon press), but probably not worth your time if that's your primary interest in the project.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Just because she hasn't felt the need when other distractions were present doesn't mean it is off the table entirely. Setting up a dating profile implies some romantic intent.

Spoiler

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Not true.
This dating app profile is very likely the source of Victoria's casual sexual encounters she implied having in the latest update.

Seems to me your are setting yourself for some disapointment if you believe there is a possibility of Victoria having some romantical interest in this game, despite the developers already saying otherwise.

 

[traplover19]

Is a walkthrough necessary for this game? I.e are there straight up wrong choices?

 

[MrBubu]

Is a walkthrough necessary for this game? I.e are there straight up wrong choices?

I wouldn't say there are wrong choices, but there are multiple possibilities, the walkthrough can be useful to find and get them.

I'd recommend a blind play first before you look at the walkthrough, if have the time todo multiple plays.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

Not true.
This dating app profile is very likely the source of Victoria's casual sexual encounters she implied having in the latest update.

Seems to me your are setting yourself for some disapointment if you believe there is a possibility of Victoria having some romantical interest in this game, despite the developers already saying otherwise.

AFAIK it was only set up a few weeks ago so it's unlikely to be for hookups given that she has been single for much longer. The context in which it was discussed with Edwin was related to her growing loneliness in part due to his absence.

From the comments I've seen the devs have been very clear about Victoria's role so far and that incest will never happen. I may have missed them discussing her future but the details appear to be ambiguous. The story itself has raised these questions surrounding her future so as a viewer it's fun to speculate regardless of the outcome.

 

[HarryJSON]

I am almost halfway through this game and I am sure there will be no action with mc's mom but do we get to have some fun with Ian's mom?

 

[se20299]

I really hope we see more Vicky gangbang tapes in the future. There's something about a single mother making the ends meet the old fashioned way that really does it for me. It also helps that Vicky is the hottest girl in the game IMO. We know so little about her, and I guess it's the mistery and ambiguity about her that mekes her so interesting to me.

As for Ian and Vicky, their latest scene basically torpedoes the popular theory that they're getting it on. I suspect that Vicky is getting her rocks off by banging random guys from Tinder, as now she's got the time and space for it. She even mentions making a dating app in the beginning of the game, and I doubt Edwin's dissapproval would stop her from fucking other men.

I'd really love to see a glimpse into Vicky's present sex life, I bet she's into some freaky shit.

 

[IndigoHawk]

You mean during the first phone call in the new update? That is normal, she'll call you back later.

Veronica declining during the call is kind of an unfortunate case of story clashing with game design. From a story perspective it's fine for Veronica to say no and later call back, but from a game perspective, it makes sense that players feel they messed up the route and ask for help when they don't get a positive response from her.

This situation creates some confusion. Maybe something to keep in mind for future decisions in the game.

 

[Takkatakka]

So not a decent guy at all then?

That depends...

The duplicity of people is very much one, if not the core theme of the game and you can see it in almost every character including the MC himself.

The smart scientist that mentors young people to get them a high education...who also owns a sex club and brothel.
The sweet and innocent young actress...who is secretly bursting with sexual curiosity.
The hard-ass biker and punk chick that seems to not be fazed by anything...who is internally totally distraught over the condition of her mother.
The wife of a judge who leads a women aid organization...who actually abuses that organization to exploit women.
The confident and prideful selfmade-woman...who actually ran her business into the ground and is full of self doubt.
And so on...and so on...

I mean the whole club is an example of the duplicity of society. Tons of "upstanding", high society people that would be pointed out as pillars of the community who in reality are degenerated pigs and in some ways utter lowlifes.

Veronica declining during the call is kind of an unfortunate case of story clashing with game design. From a story perspective it's fine for Veronica to say no and later call back, but from a game perspective, it makes sense that players feel they messed up the route and ask for help when they don't get a positive response from her.

This situation creates some confusion. Maybe something to keep in mind for future decisions in the game.

Yes, but this way the player also experiences the same surprise the MC does. I guess a lot of people (myself included) are playing these games very "goal" oriented with a mod or a guide to see as much content as possible, so those get called out by this mood-swing from Veronica a bit. While people that just take the decisions because they seem to them to be the right one or because they roleplay the MC in a certain way, have more from a switch like this.

 

[YuNobi1]

i played this long ago.... female domination content at that time was only lesbian at that time..... any such content with mc ?

I recall 1 consensual mix (femdom and reverse) event with MC, plus 2 or 3 choice-based femdom on MC events so far. Fair amount of MC-dom, with a lot of it also being optional.

 

[YuNobi1]

Is a walkthrough necessary for this game? I.e are there straight up wrong choices?

Not "necessary" to play, but necessary to ensure you don't miss the content you want as there are decisions at multiple points that trigger branching content paths. Like the recent update the MC can be with Veronica or Rosalind, but if you choose a specific dialogue choice with Veronica, Rosalind is blocked without warning.

 

[shitass1001]

The duplicity of people is very much one, if not the core theme of the game and you can see it in almost every character including the MC himself.

The smart scientist that mentors young people to get them a high education...who also owns a sex club and brothel.
The sweet and innocent young actress...who is secretly bursting with sexual curiosity.
The hard-ass biker and punk chick that seems to not be fazed by anything...who is internally totally distraught over the condition of her mother.
The wife of a judge who leads a women aid organization...who actually abuses that organization to exploit women.
The confident and prideful selfmade-woman...who actually run her business into the ground and is full of self doubt.
And so on...and so on...

I mean the whole club is an example of the duplicity of society. Tons of "upstanding", high society people that would be pointed out as pillars of the community who in reality are degenerated pigs and in some ways utter lowlifes.

This is a good analysis of the story, well said.

 

[DevinHesi]

Good news today: Chapter 4 Update 4 is officially under develolment!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 62

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Let's see if we can get the new spreadsheet up to speed. In the 8 days since work on Chapter 4 Update 4 began, TD and GIL have completed 170 static images, 0 animations and 5166 words. That's an average (both locally and overall) of roughly 149 statics, 0.0 animations and 4520 words per week. Here are the charts for Week 1:

Spoiler: Great Updates Begin By Charting a Single Step

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I'm eager to see what the next update has for us; it sounds like it will be a big one. That makes sense, since my guess is it will need to juggle significant content for Rosalind and Felicia as well as whatever revelations we uncover from the increasingly perilous Darius investigation. Add in some time for Mina, Hana and the Club and I get the impression the new update has a lot of ground to cover. Given that I'd expect this dev cycle to be on the long end - unless it gets cut in half partway through, of course.

We'll see what happens. It will be tough to wait, but even with the tragic drop off in Veronica content I'm definitely excited to see the next step!

 

[Biscardone]

Yes, but this way the player also experiences the same surprise the MC does. I guess a lot of people (myself included) are playing these games very "goal" oriented with a mod or a guide to see as much content as possible, so those get called out by this mood-swing from Veronica a bit. While people that just take the decisions because they seem to them to be the right one or because they roleplay the MC in a certain way, have more from a switch like this.

Agreed. The structure of choices in VNs can often be very simplistic: players are often lead to rely on a sort of reward system, where every choice has an immediate consequence or reaction. In developer terms, a +1 on a variable, or a flag set (if you play with the aid of a tool like URM, you can even see this change before the choice is made, and act accordingly). This makes things easy to manage, both for players and authors... but it is utterly unrealistic.
If you slap someone in the face, you're can expect to have an immediate reaction. If you compliment, or even insult someone, you may have one... but you may not. People are not so simple. Think of an underhanded insult: the first reaction may be to laugh it off, but the effects may fester.
That's why I think Veronica changing her mind is brilliant. And while I don't advocate every choice of the game to be this convoluted, it makes the game less predictable and more complex.

 

[TD1900]

Veronica declining during the call is kind of an unfortunate case of story clashing with game design. From a story perspective it's fine for Veronica to say no and later call back, but from a game perspective, it makes sense that players feel they messed up the route and ask for help when they don't get a positive response from her.

This situation creates some confusion. Maybe something to keep in mind for future decisions in the game.

I knew it would cause some people to second guess if they failed a point check or not, but I accepted it.
Or maybe even relished it a little bit.

Even if it's not the case with most players (just guessing), I like approaching the design of these things from the standpoint of someone engaging with the story honestly and just let the punches roll without trying to meta-game outcomes.

I'm not dismissing your criticism or anything. I appreciate you mentioning it, even. I think it's valid, especially as there are other examples in the story where similarly not-quite-forcasted choices have uncomfortably long-reaching results that are pretty fucking egregious. In my opinion, the game design of the project is indeed sorely lacking. I've made some errors on the back end that I wish I could take another stab at from a more seasoned perspective.

However, in this particular instance, I'm comfortable with the game side of things taking a backseat in favor of the characters. The way exhibition 2 got calculated over an entire week not so much.

Another issue is that Pale Carnations hides the time stamps from save games, so I tend to forget what my last save was. I try to keep my paths organized on separate save pages but I thought I picked the wrong save.

I'll make a note about this. The next update is going to see some UI overhauls (like a more organized gallery, among other things), so I'll take a look into adding back some functionality that I haphazardly carved out.

 

[kumenl0l]

I knew it would cause some people to second guess if they failed a point check or not, but I accepted it.
Or maybe even relished it a little bit.

Even if it's not the case with most players (just guessing), I like approaching the design of these things from the standpoint of someone engaging with the story honestly and just let the punches roll without trying to meta-game outcomes.

I'm not dismissing your criticism or anything. I appreciate you mentioning it, even. I think it's valid, especially as there are other examples in the story where similarly not-quite-forcasted choices have uncomfortably long-reaching results that are pretty fucking egregious. In my opinion, the game design of the project is indeed sorely lacking. I've made some errors on the back end that I wish I could take another stab at from a more seasoned perspective.

However, in this particular instance, I'm comfortable with the game side of things taking a backseat in favor of the characters. The way exhibition 2 got calculated over an entire week not so much.



I'll make a note about this. The next update is going to see some UI overhauls (like a more organized gallery, among other things), so I'll take a look into adding back some functionality that I haphazardly carved out.

sir, how dare you. I have been meta-gaming outcomes since I first played Do You Like Horny Bunnies 2 in 2007!

 

[Takkatakka]

That's why I think Veronica changing her mind is brilliant. And while I don't advocate every choice of the game to be this convoluted, it makes the game less predictable and more complex.

I think I wouldn't agree with that in principle. Yes, humans are like all animals very shortsighted and need gratification or punishment immediately for it to really work. Like you don't tell a puppy 2 days after it pissed into the living room that that was wrong, but you have to do it within a few minutes for the dog to understand it.

So the "press button and get result" is somewhat ingrained to humans as well and while we CAN understand certain long term results of our actions on a cognitive level, it will have a much harder time to work well. Especially with a game like this, where your action might have been like 4 updates aka 2 years ago.

Another important point for a game and especially for renpy games where the interaction is very limited to begin with, is the fact that the player - generally - needs to be able to make informed decisions. If the few decision you make lead to completely random results, then that will only ever be frustrating even if it might be somewhat more "realistic".

Of course that was not really the case here, where the player didn't really make a decision (at least not a decision in this update) and where the original decision leading to this new result made sense.