VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[TD1900]

 

[HDussen]

Either this is a writing mistake or this is not a club for as rich a people as everyone's keep talking about in the game.

Remember, in order to become extraordinarily rich, someone also has to be extraordinarily greedy.

As a general rule, rich people demand maximum value for minimum cost at every opportunity.

 

[slightchance]

That's why credits is such an often used currency in fantasy and science fiction media. When Luke hears Han Solo's offer in the cantina he replies they could buy a whole ship for 10k. This sum in dollars doesn't even buy you a middle class sedan in today's money, let alone a space worthy 4-seater.

 

[HDussen]

Well if you can't unhinge a little at a place like this then what kind of rich you are, Rich are greedy to get but the real rich sure as hell doesn't give a fuck how much they are spending (being greedy and frugal are two different things) and these are perverts who are trying to make fellow Patrons envious/jealous of them, remember this is a show of wealth so by default they should spend more.

Ah, but now you are thinking like a non-rich person.

A rich person – particularly a rich person who has, or potentially will have, business dealings with the other club members – knows that the other rich persons will take notice if they habitually throw their money around like a drunken sailor. And that this will be to their disadvantage in any future negotiations.

Nothing wrong with the occasional splurge, mind, but when you are swimming in shark-infested waters you probably should not make a habit of deliberately making yourself bleed.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Ah, but now you are thinking like a non-rich person.

A rich person – particularly a rich person who has, or potentially will have, business dealings with the other club members – knows that the other rich persons will take notice if they habitually throw their money around like a drunken sailor. And that this will be to their disadvantage in any future negotiations.

Nothing wrong with the occasional splurge, mind, but when you are swimming in shark-infested waters you probably should not make a habit of deliberately making yourself bleed.

Nonsense. There's a a saying "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" - it illustrates the attitude nicely. No self-respecting rich and/or powerful person would accept the kind of gigantic loss of face in front of any group of their peers that would be incurred by appearing to "need to haggle" about trivial sums of money, regardless of how they might actually act if they were spending that money unseen by others.

 

[slightchance]

Ah, but now you are thinking like a non-rich person

It's possible that the only ones being frugal were the other patrons when they signed his cheap ass. This guy cooks the books and all it takes is to pretend that he's part of the big league now. You could also be right though. A lot of rich folks never had their reality checked. They believe their staff can live off a few pennies in a gentrified neighborhood if they just stopped spending so much on soft toilet paper.

 

[lustforsex]

And that's one of the many reasons why I like Felicia so much - she's so unattainably smart that some players can't help but call her a "stupid whore" or "dumb". Go Felicia!

Also want to thank Pale Carnations developers, TD and GIL, that there has never been, is not, and will never be 'NTR/NTS' content in the game! Thank you very much!

 

[ArsenHumby]

And that's one of the many reasons why I like Felicia so much - she's so unattainably smart that some players can't help but call her a "stupid whore" or "dumb". Go Felicia!

Also want to thank Pale Carnations developers, TD and GIL, that there has never been, is not, and will never be 'NTR/NTS' content in the game! Thank you very much!

Nice ragebait, i give u a 6.5/10

 

[ffive]

View attachment 4813687

Srsly, when you think about it, getting a dude to pay even $200 just so he can jerk himself off is quite a feat.

 

[Ozymandias037]

After listening to falecia's reasons for why she joined the club, I couldn't help but say she might be the most intelligently dumb person one could ever come across saying "she was afraid that her husband could find out about her having a hand in saving that school" (like he would care as long as it's not his money or considering how dumb he is being portrayed in the game as of now at least, that he would attach that school running again to her wife who got fucked by The MC in his office)" but she isn't afraid of her husband getting a hand on those photos that Edwin took at his house (even a patron can easily leak those photos out of envy/hate towards ellais ford to hurt not even his feelings/ego but also hurting his reputation/respect in the city which eventually can cause him financial damage or just for the fun of it, the world is full of leakers) or if you take the realistic approach of this game into account someone like Elias should already know about an exclusive club for the rich and powerful in the middle of the city and will eventually find out that a familiar face has joined it, it's just a matter of time.

So she basically endangered everything that she has built so far, for what? A chance at success (again) from another Asshole other than her husband, out of anger?, up to this point I thought she was wiser than that.

It really seems like she has made a terrible mistake taking this step and if it isn't the case in future for this game and she really cash on this choice of hers without losing more than what she gained, I would say at least her storyline resembles a poorly written harem game where everything happens with no reasons and no consciousness whatsoever.

I think it's all about power dynamics with Felicia. The "ladder" she keeps talking about. I also think the school is more complex than she literally said. It's basically all her trying to square this circle of being a self-described gold digger and a human being, simultaneously.

If she's part of the club - she wins and becomes a patron - she's at an equal plane as all the other patrons. Even while competing in the contest: she's a potential patron the whole time in her eyes, not just a carnation. In her marriage she's pretty much a disposable asset and Elias has all the power. This is particularly depressing to her because Elias is so dumb, in a way. In his mind, something like the MC & the photo shoot under his nose would never even occur to her to do: he believes Felicia is beyond happy, because who wouldn't be happy in her position?, being married to a rich genius & etc. Ego makes people far stupider than desire (far more blind spots). Felicia is almost all desire & he's almost all ego. And as an aside, people can be highly egoic and beyond competent in the socioeconomic realm. It is always one's personal life where ego takes its biggest toll.

I genuinely think she didn't 'try harder' with the school because she was trying to convince herself to take everything in stride and be happy with her marriage. This required repressing how much she actually cared about the school & art in general (really, self-expression of any kind). Thus, this outburst of self-expression from her with the club & the contest. She is resentful of Elias like she says, but that level of resentment doesn't come simply from the school thing; she just made it about that in order to understand it better herself. She also had nothing to materially gain in saving the school. The reward was intangible & the risk was losing all her social currency. At least in the contest she stands to gain something she can trade on. The risk/reward are both way higher, for sure, but people who put their unconscious desires in a pressure cooker for years will naturally gravitate towards such high-stakes scenarios.

But I will agree that she's both intelligent and dumb like you said in your first post, lol. I think she is slightly over-estimating how much social currency being a patron of the club will afford her but, at the same time, she is correct that she has to do something. Her life before the club was obviously not doing it for her. And generally speaking, if anyone wants anything they tend to over-estimate it's importance.

I'm also not saying this to argue with you. You like what you like & I like what I like, which is what makes the world go 'round. I also think I'm in the minority of people who like Felicia particularly. Almost all of it is subtext and, even still, she's not the most sympathetic character of all time, nor is she the most mature. This is just my caffeinated take.

I was one of those who was strongly arguing Felicia's case/motivations the last time this came up. I am admittedly a fan (which is weird, because she's not my normal type of favorite LI at all, so it's really a testament to TD's incredible writing), so naturally I'm biased.

I wasn't wanting to get back into these trenches, so I was going to just say "Yes, this; Wilhelms and Ahreahl88 nailed it" and leave it at that, but then:

I have raised this exact issue in the past in this thread but the Felicia fanboys started to give the reasons that she is bound to succeed with her plan which were as unrealistic and unfeasible as the Felicia's decision itself. When I didn't agree with them they tried to eat me together with all my shit

So, be careful when you doubt Felicia's wit and wisdom. Some people think only with their dick instead of their brain and get very angry when you start arguing with them

So far, for me it is the weakest part of the plot, the rest of which is mostly great, I believe. Because her plan is suicidal, but the rest of what we know about her personality implies her being a clever, calculating woman.

In my opinion this is... a pretty big mischaracterization of the last battle. Nobody was seriously saying that Felicia's plan isn't incredibly risky and possibly catastrophic if it fails. It is. Rather, we were saying that for her, in her mind, the risk is worth the potential reward. Especially since she actively gets off on the competition and the exhibitions, and double especially since she didn't feel like she had any real skin in the game. If she lost, so what? She would still be a privileged trophy wife.

Of course, that attitude is one of the things that makes Kathleen particularly keen on breaking her, and that has to be a fair chunk of why Elias is invited to the club in the first place. Because now there are real stakes for Felicia, plus Kathleen gets to indulge her sadism.

There was also a lot of argument about how, even if Felicia wins, the other club members could take her seriously and respect her after witnessing her being degraded and humiliated, and how she was a dirty filthy tainted whore for allowing these things to be done to her, which (again, in my opinion) was missing a whole lot of things.

But I don't really want to rehash that whole argument again. Anyone interested can go back a few dozen pages and find it

 

[Beduin123]

In my opinion this is... a pretty big mischaracterization of the last battle. Nobody was seriously saying that Felicia's plan isn't incredibly risky and possibly catastrophic if it fails. It is.

That is your position and I understand that. But some other participants were dead sure that her plan must work. That the club members will provide her money and power or necessary connections (for what?) out of respect for her (for what, that she has made a submissive slut of herself?). And all the other various nonsense like that

She would still be a privileged trophy wife.

I wonder how? Only if Elias is a complete sub and cuck but that kind of people never hold real power by definition.

 

[Kameri]

That the club members will provide her money and power or necessary connections (for what?) out of respect for her (for what, that she has made a submissive slut of herself?).

Isn't she the kind of woman who's always trying to climb the social ladder? She seems like the type who would use any power or wealth to boost her social status. They will give it to her not because out of respect for her but out of respect for the club establishment.

 

[ffive]

That is your position and I understand that. But some other participants were dead sure that her plan must work. That the club members will provide her money and power or necessary connections (for what?) out of respect for her (for what, that she has made a submissive slut of herself?). And all the other various nonsense like that

I think it's more accurate to say that some people were simply countering your claims that "it for sure won't work because no man ever is is going to respect a slut", by presenting alternative take that it might work. In other words, that Felicia is engaging in a risk but she is not off her rocker and doing something with zero chance of success.

But it's rather pointless to rehash it (especially seeing how that discussion didn't affect your stance and preconceptions one bit) and anyone genuinely interested can do a search and check it out for themselves.

 

[lustforsex]

I think it's more accurate to say that some people were simply countering your claims that "it for sure won't work because no man ever is is going to respect a slut", by presenting alternative take that it might work. In other words, that Felicia is engaging in a risk but she is not off her rocker and doing something with zero chance of success.

But it's rather pointless to rehash it (especially seeing how that discussion didn't affect your stance and preconceptions one bit) and anyone genuinely interested can do a search and check it out for themselves.

Some people draw conclusions about a character after playing only half of the game, some draw conclusions about the game without even launching it. What will happen next...

 

[Idontplay]

Some people draw conclusions about a character after playing only half of the game, some draw conclusions about the game without even launching it and some others skipping all the dialogues. What will happen next...

Fixed.

 

[lustforsex]

Fixed.

Any gallery unlocker or full save, guys? I'm asking for a friend

 

[Idontplay]

An already played game would be the best.

 

[Beduin123]

But it's rather pointless to rehash it (especially seeing how that discussion didn't affect your stance and preconceptions one bit) and anyone genuinely interested can do a search and check it out for themselves.

My only point this time was that it is not only silly me who finds this plan highly unrealistic even with all the arguments that "by becoming a Member she will gain important social connections and influence". The mere fact that this topic pops up every now and then in this thread proves how fragile is her plan. I just wanted to support Wilhelms , that's it.

The Devs understand all that perfectly and said so many times in the game and here. The only problem I see is the highly split Felicia's personality: on one hand, she is smart and thoroughly calculating woman who builds her success step by step, on the other hand she is frustrated housewife becoming a suicidal gambler ready to lose everything out of her boredom. It's like two different characters in one - bordering on a mental disease.

May be that's the idea, we'll see.

 

[GIL3D]

My only point this time was that it is not only silly me who finds this plan highly unrealistic even with all the arguments that "by becoming a Member she will gain important social connections and influence". The mere fact that this topic pops up every now and then in this thread proves how fragile is her plan. I just wanted to support Wilhelms , that's it.

The Devs understand all that perfectly and said so many times in the game and here. The only problem I see is the highly split Felicia's personality: on one hand, she is smart and thoroughly calculating woman who builds her success step by step, on the other hand she is frustrated housewife becoming a suicidal gambler ready to lose everything out of her boredom. It's like two different characters in one - bordering on a mental disease.

May be that's the idea, we'll see.

Contradictions are what makes us human. If you think personalities should be one tone, you'd only be able to write flat characters that feel inauthentic.

If you can't find strong contradictions within yourself, you simply have low self-awareness.

 

[Beduin123]

If you can't find strong contradictions within yourself, you simply have low self-awareness.

My period of high self-awareness has ended long time ago when I came of the age But that's OK, let's leave it.