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Dr. Mick

Active Member
Nov 21, 2017
505
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Oh, you're sure that it will happen? Knowing that the AVN isn't exactly a fairytale where "good always defeats evil" I wouldn't put my money on that outcome. Chuck and Kat, and August for that matter, successfully kept getting away with all the stuff they were doing all their long lives, so why it will be different now?
It's simple. Taking them down is the only thing I have to look forward to after what they've done. It's quite literally why I'm still reading. So I have to believe that we'll be able to triumph, save the abused and oppressed, and have some semblance of a happy ending.
Otherwise what everyone has had to endure is pointless.
 

Simpgor

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2020
1,120
3,065
Oh, you're sure that it will happen? Knowing that the AVN isn't exactly a fairytale where "good always defeats evil" I wouldn't put my money on that outcome. Chuck and Kat, and August for that matter, successfully kept getting away with all the stuff they were doing all their long lives, so why it will be different now?
August is already "defeating himself" by having Hana slowly take over his position, Kathleen says (to edwin) she's betting alot on the next moves she's planning, and as for Chuck..... uh..... Ian is maybe a bit more self reflective now? :HideThePain:

Also the usual protagonist privilege of being involved with all of them: as a new toy/protege for Kathleen, dating/fucking/being friends with? Hana for August, and being "family" to Chuck/potentially very close to Ian

Edit: Also Endings have long been confirmed to have range in them it would be weird for that range to be [within the bounds of 3 borderline senior citizens still winning]
 
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GokutheG

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2022
1,562
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It's simple. Taking them down is the only thing I have to look forward to after what they've done. It's quite literally why I'm still reading. So I have to believe that we'll be able to triumph, save the abused and oppressed, and have some semblance of a happy ending.
Otherwise what everyone has had to endure is pointless.
I'm thinking that the mc will be able to turn Chuck and August against Kat once whatever she's plotting comes to light. I'm not sure about Chuck and August. August seems like as long as his daughter is happy he'd be happy stepping back and letting her run the buisness. I think Chuck would gift his shares to the mc if Ian hasn't gotten his act together. I think they could reform the club. I have a harder time thinking of a reason of how/why to really take down A/C. I can't really think of any leverage because it seems Chuck has the cops in his pockets. Unless he steps down to protect his family that would fit. August may also have to worry about his gang but Chuck's cop connections and profitable club seems to make them a non factor. Unless they go after Hana to get to him.
 

Dr. Mick

Active Member
Nov 21, 2017
505
1,127
I'm thinking that the mc will be able to turn Chuck and August against Kat once whatever she's plotting comes to light. I'm not sure about Chuck and August. August seems like as long as his daughter is happy he'd be happy stepping back and letting her run the buisness. I think Chuck would gift his shares to the mc if Ian hasn't gotten his act together. I think they could reform the club. I have a harder time thinking of a reason of how/why to really take down A/C. I can't really think of any leverage because it seems Chuck has the cops in his pockets. Unless he steps down to protect his family that would fit. August may also have to worry about his gang but Chuck's cop connections and profitable club seems to make them a non factor. Unless they go after Hana to get to him.
From what we've seen, Chuck is just as sadistic as Kat, with even less empathy, and potentially more violent considering the disappearances that are suspected to be attributed to him, and his relentless pursuit of the science assistant. Have to find proof of his misdeeds to use as leverage and/or probable cause, or find a way to make him slipup.
 
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Simpgor

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Apr 18, 2020
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From what we've seen, Chuck is just as sadistic as Kat, with even less empathy, and potentially more violent considering the disappearances that are suspected to be attributed to him, and his relentless pursuit of the science assistant. Have to find proof of his misdeeds to use as leverage and/or probable cause, or find a way to make him slipup.
In my opinion a key difference is unlike kat he can get "something" from people he cares about (Ian/Edwin) indulging in a way he couldn't in his youth. For Kathleen it's not enough to know people are suffering because of her orders she wants to be in the room to see it (Edwin's Present). That being said i agree that if the MC wasn't Edwin/Ian Chuck would be a much bigger (imo the biggest) obstacle
 
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helo138

Newbie
Nov 4, 2018
44
99
Exactly. After going through all that, and watching as the ladies are all abused as well, it will make the eventual takedown of Kat and Chuck that much sweeter.
Go through all these uncomfortable situations with depraved sadists, sympathize with how it feels to be on the receiving end, and then enjoy their comeuppance later on.
100% this. Too many VNs with potential story lines like this skip on the first part even though it makes revenge 100-times sweeter and more inpactful later. I am really looking forward to dominating Kathleen on Edwins terms at some point, although I can understand that some people just want to put her in jail or worse. However, she is just too hot for that in my opinion and we are still reading an adult visuel novel, so...
 

Dr. Mick

Active Member
Nov 21, 2017
505
1,127
100% this. Too many VNs with potential story lines like this skip on the first part even though it makes revenge 100-times sweeter and more inpactful later. I am really looking forward to dominating Kathleen on Edwins terms at some point, although I can understand that some people just want to put her in jail or worse. However, she is just too hot for that in my opinion and we are still reading an adult visuel novel, so...
I would, but from what I've heard about Kat's offered "gift" I'd be afraid of Edwin sinking to her level. So I'll settle for seeing her incarcerated, or exiled, or paraded through the streets naked while a nun walks behind her ringing a bell and yelling "Shame!".
 

helo138

Newbie
Nov 4, 2018
44
99
I would, but from what I've heard about Kat's offered "gift" I'd be afraid of Edwin sinking to her level. So I'll settle for seeing her incarcerated, or exiled, or paraded through the streets naked while a nun walks behind her ringing a bell and yelling "Shame!".
Parading her in front of the club would work for me, I guess:BootyTime:.
 

GokutheG

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2022
1,562
3,042
I would, but from what I've heard about Kat's offered "gift" I'd be afraid of Edwin sinking to her level. So I'll settle for seeing her incarcerated, or exiled, or paraded through the streets naked while a nun walks behind her ringing a bell and yelling "Shame!".
It seems that K tries so hard to be seen as an equal to the clients that I'm starting to think that turning her into a permanent Carnation might be a fate worse than jail for her ego. It could be seen as some sort of poetic justice. She used her sister's charity to turn desperate women into Carnations for her own sick amusement just to end up there herself.
 

Dr. Mick

Active Member
Nov 21, 2017
505
1,127
It seems that K tries so hard to be seen as an equal to the clients that I'm starting to think that turning her into a permanent Carnation might be a fate worse than jail for her ego. It could be seen as some sort of poetic justice. She used her sister's charity to turn desperate women into Carnations for her own sick amusement just to end up there herself.
Fitting end.
Once Edwin and Hana take over, they reshape the club how they see fit. They can keep the brothel side going, but make it optional, rather than a punishment. While the club has a new bottom piglet, aka Kat.
Can even still have exhibition show, with the significant difference of getting consent from any of the carnations that remain, and those who join.
 
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GokutheG

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Oct 20, 2022
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Fitting end.
Once Edwin and Hana take over, they reshape the club how they see fit. They can keep the brothel side going, but make it optional, rather than a punishment. While the club has a new bottom piglet, aka Kat.
Can even still have exhibition show, with the significant difference of getting consent from any of the carnations that remain, and those who join.
Yeah maybe some girls who actually have a humiliation fetish or something to actually enjoy the work. I can see someone with Felicia's personality enjoying something like that. But then would the clients still care if the exploitation isn't there?

Having Kat compete against people who actually enjoys what happens to earn her freedom could be funny. Of course the games feel rigged against her.
 

Birdnman993

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2021
1,638
2,538
It's simple. Taking them down is the only thing I have to look forward to after what they've done. It's quite literally why I'm still reading. So I have to believe that we'll be able to triumph, save the abused and oppressed, and have some semblance of a happy ending.
Otherwise what everyone has had to endure is pointless.
At least if you can't take control of the club it would be good to be able to help all the carnations, Veronica's problem would be as simple as changing her business model to a more profitable approach, Felicia would not need someone to accept her as a member of the Club and Rosalind would literally be solved with money, it is so simple that Felicia gives Roselind money to help her win the game and both come out winning with this Felicia wins the game and we help the other two, problem solved.

I'm thinking that the mc will be able to turn Chuck and August against Kat once whatever she's plotting comes to light. I'm not sure about Chuck and August. August seems like as long as his daughter is happy he'd be happy stepping back and letting her run the buisness. I think Chuck would gift his shares to the mc if Ian hasn't gotten his act together. I think they could reform the club. I have a harder time thinking of a reason of how/why to really take down A/C. I can't really think of any leverage because it seems Chuck has the cops in his pockets. Unless he steps down to protect his family that would fit. August may also have to worry about his gang but Chuck's cop connections and profitable club seems to make them a non factor. Unless they go after Hana to get to him.
You could also have another more pacifist route so to speak, since all the members have an age to retire and leave the club to a new generation, Hana would have her share through inheritance from Agust and Ian from Uncle Chuck, and since Kathleen is so determined to have Edwin as her apprentice perhaps she would give him her position in the club, with that the 3 of them could manage the club in a less shady way, you know without making employees disappear or irresponsibly neglecting the health of their "employees".

And as for the pale carnation game, I've been thinking that it wouldn't be so bad if at the end you could help the finalists, so that the contest would continue as we all know and if you got to the end without withdrawing, you would fulfill the reward promised to the participants behind the scenes, of course this will be something that they will only know when the game ends so the tension of losing will still be there and they will only get their reward if they haven't withdrawn.

The tests will continue to be tough and will put the participants to the limit, but if they make it to the end it will be worth it.
 

Simpgor

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2020
1,120
3,065
At least if you can't take control of the club it would be good to be able to help all the carnations, Veronica's problem would be as simple as changing her business model to a more profitable approach, Felicia would not need someone to accept her as a member of the Club and Rosalind would literally be solved with money, it is so simple that Felicia gives Roselind money to help her win the game and both come out winning with this Felicia wins the game and we help the other two, problem solved.


You could also have another more pacifist route so to speak, since all the members have an age to retire and leave the club to a new generation, Hana would have her share through inheritance from Agust and Ian from Uncle Chuck, and since Kathleen is so determined to have Edwin as her apprentice perhaps she would give him her position in the club, with that the 3 of them could manage the club in a less shady way, you know without making employees disappear or irresponsibly neglecting the health of their "employees".

The tests will continue to be tough and will put the participants to the limit, but if they make it to the end it will be worth it.
The "issues" imo would be that three kids (even assuming they have the current 3 owners helping) not only can somehow run a brothel but also somehow make it "better" (sex competition being removed notwithstanding) despite their lack of experience and their only connections being the ones the current owners have most of which are bad people lol (august gangster friend, the shady government guys from chuck).

The bigger issue is definitely Kathleen though. She wants Edwin to indulge because she can see the "sadism" he is constantly mentioning/struggling with sure but leaving the club to him? What about her plan (that involves lying to Chuck and august)? What about the drugs? What about van doren/Sophie?

I really don't think Kathleens side of things are set to work in a "pacifist" route, in a Kathleen ending it would work fine (like how her route is mutually exclusive now) but otherwise it would seem suuuuuper out of character for her.
 
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