VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Turret]

SECOND MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY:

your saves won't work because of you.

How many times must we remind people that your modded saves - ANY modded save in ANY modded game - ONLY work IF AND WHEN the mod GETS UPDATED?

I like the intensity of your answers here!

 

[ffive]

... Yes... But... Remember that those two are like oil and water in the fact that they don't mix and the entire early game is about establishing a big reason they won't ever want to get emotionally involved unless both change very drastically as characters.

I think this is why people talk about Hana and Ian pairing in the context of Ian who has undergone the introspective, as opposed to his regular douchy self.

 

[Ungawa]

I think this is why people talk about Hana and Ian pairing in the context of Ian who has undergone the introspective, as opposed to his regular douchy self.

Okay, he's in the process of introspection but going for Hana, who's his boss, over the regular girls, as well as all the issues that come with that are still on the table. There'd have to be a regression of Hana to go out with Ian when she knows the history and she's not just going to forgive what he did to Mina same as Felicia, although she's caught up in Carnation business.

 

[Garen]

 

[colombianhoes]

colombianhoes

It's interesting you're so sure of that when it's just as plausible (that she will go back to Ian) as Edwin staying her boyfriend. And she has hots for EVERYONE, even that supposedly handsome, big nosed guy at the party:

Spoiler: handsome guy

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I'm guessing we as players will decide how it will turn out. If we will be bros to Ian and not pursue Mina ourselves it's very likely that Mina will go back to her ex. This is what Mina had to say about Ian:

"I like that Ian can still surprise me. He's goofy and it's almost like he's stumbling through life with blinders on, but sometimes he blindly walks into making a girl feel special"

She was pretty shaken-up for a reason after their break-up.

Now that she will have her "revenge" and that Ian will make an effort (his apology is the first step, although it depends on us whether we will help or not) I'm pretty sure it will be one of available endings.

Yeah, thats what i thought as well as an possibility. Idk what that other guy problem is tho.
The game just doesnt show it fast enough to decide, like saying ok this is happening right now, but in this case, yet again, gotta wait for another version to see whats up before i decide i wanna play that route.

 

[ffive]

There'd have to be a regression of Hana to go out with Ian when she knows the history and she's not just going to forgive what he did to Mina same as Felicia, although she's caught up in Carnation business.

Ehh, let's not forget that Hana is potentially going out with MC who can be all kinds of asshole to the club girls and/or carnations. While, granted, it does impact her opinion of MC in such scenario, I think she's more flexible in this regard than you give her credit for.

 

[Ungawa]

Ehh, let's not forget that Hana is potentially going out with MC who can be all kinds of asshole to the club girls and/or carnations. I think she's more flexible in this regard than you give her credit for.

But this isn't only a focus on Hana. It's that their relationship is already an antagonistic one. Sure, MC can do this. But she's been in the club seeing Ian at his worst and hedonistic and it's harder to establish trust within a month of that stature. Not that it can't be done, but she'd have to be extremely skeptical of the transformation as Ian is going through it. I'm not saying that it can't be something eventually, as the drinking game does show cordiality, but it would take a lot more writing than possibly keeping it off the table and maybe in the epilogue if I'm being honest.

 

[Turret]

Well, now I'm pretty sure that we're seeing a lot of things quite differently.
Wanna make a bet?
- Mina won't go back to Ian no matter what. Ian will settle with Alice/the hairdresser by the story epilogue (if he settles with somebody).

I would not disregard a reconciliation of the two completely, esp. if we get Ian onto the introspection path and help him otherwise as well. Still, your bet might be correct on them staying apart.
Also while a bit an "out there" option, Ian and Viktoria coming together in the epilog is not impossible. Improbable, but not impossible, but hinges IMO on how the Vicki-Grace crisis gets solved too.

My second bet is:
- even though we might see more scenes involving lewd activity between Edwin and Sophia, we won't have any proper sex scene / date between them.

Won´t surprise you that I sincerely hope you are incorrect with this, even if it is a probable situation. But I would be happy with a "tame" date if that would foster a romance of the MC and Sophia in the end.
Actually, Vicki´s problem with Grace (Chuck´s sister!) could be an opportunity to call Sophia for help. Abel and Sophia loath Chuck the most from the PC leadership. And Grace made the mistake to threaten the currently most important person in the MC´s life, his Mom. I am sure Abel and Sophia would like to get ammo against Chuck.

My third bet is:
- Darius and Isla are alive and well.

This has a quite high probability. But it is not a sure thing, since we know that the Club does not shy away from eliminating those getting in the way. See Olli, but he brought it onto himself. August pulled a classic "Make him an offer he can´t refuse" and Olli was dumb enough to disregard the old saying "Watch old people in professions where you do not get old."

 

[ffive]

But this isn't only a focus on Hana. It's that their relationship is already an antagonistic one.

Well, we know from the talk we can have with Ian that this antagonism --if at all genuine-- is largely one-sided, since Ian actually likes Hana, so his interactions with her in this context are more like teasing her, than any actual dislike. And then there's also the fact that "initial antagonists end up with each another" and attraction between opposites are pretty common developments, both in fiction and outside of it.

Ultimately, it's not a hill worth dying on for me, but i do think the possibility for such development is there, and it's not something that'd feel particularly off, should it happen.

 

[Cheemsburger]

Does anyone else game got glitchy whenever an animation scene play

 

[sunaboz]

There's also this variant of Hana/Mina talk, if you didn't push Mina towards girls:

(...)
            hana "We have so much in common, including our taste in men apparently."
            mina "...if that's true, does that mean you think Ian's hot?"
            hana "Fuck no! I mean, as far as looks go, I guess--"
            hana "*Sigh* Let's get you home."
            mina "...alright."

Yeah, that was one of my favourite lines. Same goes for this one:

kil "...coming in! Hope no one's decent!"
kil "--oh, it's just you two."
hana "You stole the words right out of my mouth."

Spoiler: image from newest update

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I think that you guys are starting to forget that Edwin is the MC, not Ian.

So? We're getting Veronica x Mina scenes or Felicia x Mina (we could just observe for the most part of the threesome if we wanted to), we're seeing Victoria getting railed, Sophia, Felicia with her husband (1 image, but still...), etc. Point is people besides Edwin have sex all the time and we're made aware of that (even if off-screen, like it was with Mina x Ian case).

Besides, in this very update Hana advises Mina to fuck Ian so that will happen for sure:

Spoiler

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.. Yes... But... Remember that those two are like oil and water in the fact that they don't mix and the entire early game is about establishing a big reason they won't ever want to get emotionally involved unless both change very drastically as characters.

In my eyes they mix perfectly. If I didn't know any better I would think that their conversations are lover's quarrels (not your typical lovers but lovers nonetheless and as they say: the quarrel of lovers is the renewal of love). And IMO four weeks is enough for Hana to change her mind about Ian now that she got to know him better.

Previously she only saw him as the rich pervert who treats women like whores (so whores like whores) which she didn't like. Now not only she saw a different side of him but she also changed after becoming a co-owner. Her perspective changed a lot and things that would be out of the question 3 weeks ago now she considers herself.

Besides, she's known him for at least a year and she's seen him at his worst, Edwin on the other hand came around only 3 weeks ago. I don't see how relationship with him is any more probable than with Ian when she barely knows Edwin and yet she's dating him (or is fuckbuddies with him).

Anyway, I'm not saying it will happen but that I can see it happening. I think the way Mina and Ian interact with each other leaves a room for interpretation and TD does it deliberately because their every conversation looks like this when they're face to face but when Ian isn't present Hana can say something nice about him and when Hana isn't present Ian can say something nice about Hana.

Does anyone else game got glitchy whenever an animation scene play

AMD drivers might be the problem (I assume you do have an AMD card?).

 

[Ottoeight]

Not quite. Hana all but confirms here in response to Mina's question that she finds Ian sexually attractive.

Nope. And don't forget that Mina's totally stoned at the time.

Does anyone else game got glitchy whenever an animation scene play

Nope.

 

[Ungawa]

In my eyes they mix perfectly. If I didn't know any better I would think that their conversations are lover's quarrels (not your typical lovers but lovers nonetheless and as they say: the quarrel of lovers is the renewal of love). And IMO four weeks is enough for Hana to change her mind about Ian now that she got to know him better.

I mean sure, but that's rose tinted glasses. No one shifts perspective that quickly and this is missing how she'll still feel the issues of the past even if her title changed. She has to have growth just like Ian. What hasn't really been changed in their relationship is sexual and intimate attraction levels which form a bond beyond lust. I just don't see it with everything laid out as it is, especially with how close Hana and Mina have become in most playthroughs of the game for most people.

Previously she only saw him as the rich pervert who treats women like whores (so whores like whores) which she didn't like. Now not only she saw a different side of him but she also changed after becoming a co-owner. Her perspective changed a lot and things that would be out of the question 3 weeks ago now she considers herself.

Again, I can't stress this enough, Ian is going through that transformation and it's mostly internal. She isn't picking up on it. Right now, according to everything laid out, it's Vicky and Ian. What a lot of people are doing is pushing a forced parallel in the story. They WANT Ian to do X and other characters and trying to justify it. As far as I've seen, Hana and Mina have reasons not to get with Ian for the time being and it requires a good amount of writing to make that line up for what people want in an alteration on their core characters at this time.

Besides, she's known him for at least a year and she's seen him at his worst, Edwin on the other hand came around only 3 weeks ago. I don't see how relationship with him is any more probable than with Ian when she barely knows Edwin and yet she's dating him (or is fuckbuddies with him).

Would you really trust someone that cheated on their ex with a maid?

Anyway, I'm not saying it will happen but that I can see it happening. I think the way Mina and Ian interact with each other leaves a room for interpretation and TD does it deliberately because their every conversation looks like this when they're face to face but when Ian isn't present Hana can say something nice about him and when Hana isn't present Ian can say something nice about Hana.

Sure, we know about it from the drinking game. But jumping bones and romance is a bit harder to get away with when their characters were established and we need growth and time in a direction that may not have enough time.

 

[Ottoeight]

Sunaboz, dude. Will you stop trolling us, please?

W e' r e h a v i n g a s e r i o u s c o n v e r s a t i o n, h e r e. We are talking about really important topics, you know

 

[Turret]

Most interesting? Why do you think that?

One of the most interesting characters, I do not have a clear "most most" intersting character in the game. Sophia is an eccentric genius, highly intellectual, odd mannerisms and widely amoral. On one hand she has a really Samurai-like "Do/solve what your Daimyo orders you" relationship with Abel, on the other hand she is his chosen successor-protege and will take over a medical empire once Abel retires. She can highly abstract her sex life ("not pontificate about her bodily functions"), but can also let loose in quite a big way. See the gangbang, even if that partly was to test out the new version of the drug.
Just the most obvious stuff here, I could write more, but I doubt you all would want to read it.

 

[ffive]

Nope. And don't forget that Mina's totally stoned at the time.

It reads very much to me like Hana is about to blurt out that yes, Ian is physically hot, but stops herself at last moment. Mina being stoned doesn't mean anything here, since we're talking about Hana's views of Ian, not Mina's.

 

[Turret]

AMD drivers might be the problem (I assume you do have an AMD card?).

Could also be an outdated mod. Ren´py is quite sensitive to this unlike some other engines which are more forgiving.

 

[ffive]

She has to have growth just like Ian.

Hana is undergoing her own growth -- she stops being flat-out angry at her father and his business (as well as practices in said business) and attempts to honestly engage with these. It's then not too surprising she'd be willing to re-evaluate other things/people she's been giving nothing but cold shoulder so far, namely Ian. Especially since she now gets to interact with him regularly also in situations outside of the work.

 

[Ungawa]

Hana is undergoing her own growth -- she stops being flat-out angry at her father and his business (as well as practices in said business) and attempts to honestly engage with these. It's then not too surprising she'd be willing to re-evaluate other things/people she's been giving nothing but cold shoulder so far, namely Ian. Especially since she now gets to interact with him regularly also in situations outside of the work.

I'm well aware of that. And it's my point that seeing them get together at this late stage is very difficult and may be handled in the epilogue but there's already established antagonisms which make them getting together a bit less likely with so much to be focused on as is.

 

[Machete]

You've just told the naked truth: 99,999999999% of Adult Visual Novels are a complete failure.

They're supposed to be erotic fiction and they fail both as erotic and as fiction.

I wouldn't be this extreme even if, as a matter of fact, a good 90+% of games, especially recent now games, are indeed lazy garbage with 0 effort taken and visibly so.

But if we stick to the games that are well done, or at least decently done, even when the story is actually good, and there are a a good deal of games with a rich well conceived and well executed story, the plot and the sex elements feel disjointed.

Like "Hey! there is this mysterious serie of events, possibly dangerous implication and very shady actors! We need to investigate! But just give me 15 minutes, right now i need to fuck my cousin's brain out, then we can go on with the investigation!"