VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[DeronMaron]

Eh. The appeal of a visual novel, at least for me, is the choose-your-own-adventure feel.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the gating for any of the scenes in this update are illogical or hard to achieve. Maybe Lucy doesn't need to be tied so much to the Felicia date (I might change that), but Hana / Mina / Kathleen splits are just "focus on them" stuff and the Allison/Sophia paths are determined within this (single) update.

I can understand not feeling satisfied, it's why stopping where we did was a difficult choice, but big picture the exhibition 3 free roam is a drop in the bucket. For anyone who finds it lacking, I'm hoping the experience rounds out once it's just part of "playing Pale Carnatons" rather than "playing the update", y'know? Sure everything could be linear, but as it stands, Edwin can potentially have sex 3 times BEFORE the exhibition games even start. The "magic of CYOA" aside, tonally it'd be kinda weird to play grab ass with Kat, fuck Hana, fuck Lucy, and also comfort Felicia within that span.

That last part isn't necessarily related to your complaint, but just a thought.

Well, I also like the ability to choose your own path and actions in games (for which the player is usually rewarded with this or that scene; at least that's how it's always been done correctly and interestingly; empty choice options are really of no use to anyone). But when there are so many of them and they turn into a labyrinth and you simply don't understand what you need to choose to get the result you want, then what's the point of having so many options? That's what I mean.

 

[imagica]

I'm so conflicted with who should win the competition in the end especially now with knowing that the winner isn't really free after all they're a slave to the club forever.

Felicia should be the winner. Basically, her goal is to become VIP in the club. Now, it still means they have some dirt on her, but it is not like both her and Elias have nothing to kick back with. By being a patron, she is a tier higher than Allison. With Elias being a patron as well, they really become a power couple. Naturally, they can solve the money issues for Veronica and Rosie.

I think club did them a favor. The worst which could have happened to Felicia already happened. While raising the stakes, they also gave an opportunity for Felicia, in case she wins, not only to reverse the damage, but also to get the advantage. Not like they were a faithful couple. For Elias, the major hit is mostly to his ego, but it can be mitigated if Felicia wins. It is up to Edwin to convey it to them both.

 

[Doggor]

Just finished the update, well one route of it atleast.

Whoo what a ride, this might be applicable to every update but man TD and GIL really outdid themselves with this one.
The insane thing to me is its only half the update, they are really hitting their stride. Can not praise this update enough without getting into spoilers and i just want the devs to know they're killing it.

 

[Discrepancy]

Damn, haven't seen this thread so active in a while so no idea if this was brought before, but I'm a bit sad my dreams of Edwin fucking the pregnant house girl yoori are shattered, since she seems to be in labor
At least the "new" house girl (can't remember the name) that we see Hana and August arguing with is pretty hot, hope Edwin get to try her
Can't wait for the next update

 

[Turret]

I'm so conflicted with who should win the competition in the end especially now with knowing that the winner isn't really free after all they're a slave to the club forever.

I initially felt very strongly that it should be Rosalind she's the only one who really "needed" it and was there not because of any vanity or problem of her own making and I loved the symmetry of Rosalind/Edwin/mom plots. Then I think Felicia because really Rose's problem is like 2 pairs of shoes for Felicia and Edwin could easily fix the problem for Rosalind (and even veronica) without them winning but now...eeeek

It's now portrayed as if its more important than ever for Felicia to win that its survival do or die but after this update and the peek behind the curtain we got of her at the art show I think winning would be insanely detrimental for her soul.

Testement to the great writing when you can make someone flip from wanting every girl to be able to win to not wanting any of them to win haha

I suspect everyone's success actually depends on Edwin and Hana accepting everything and becoming more committed to the club, which aligns with the owners' wishes and is bad for us.

I guess it's looking grim for everyone no matter what, so unless we find a way to help Felicia in future updates, both outcomes look especially bad for her.

Hi!
It is great work by TD, esp. considering that he early on told us we have to make a decision towards the end: staying with the club or getting the hell out of Dodge (Marshall Matt Dillon). At the beginning it looked very much like a minor point, with the club looking like "just" a high brow sex and prostitution club. Now we see the stakes have risen.
Staying at the club without becoming a stain on humankind, means being the bringer of radical change one way or the other. Just think about that even August, a criminal and far from being a saint, is becoming more and more concerned what happens at the club.
We either bring change to the club or leave, if we want to keep a halfway clean soul. If we stay with the club as it is, well, that way lies madness. There is a reason we have to decide between Allison and Sophia beyond our personal likes! Allison impersonates what it takes to flower at the club´s upper levels and it makes her repugnant. Our eccentric doctor shows even at her worst, she is quite the opposite of Allison. I am convinced it was with full deliberatness that we miss most of the orgy if we choose Sophia. That is not to "shortchange" us on the sex scene front, it is a wider choice we make.

 

[slightchance]

As for the list: should Edwin run out and grab some dude off the street corner so they can Eiffel tower her? Should he break out the dog collar after spilling his guts? No, not the time.

It's that kind of thinking that made this update safe and boring as fuck. You got the keys to the kingdom. It is you who put him in this situation, not us. Maybe don't pull us in with a circus of depravity only to chicken out at the last minute. Why have you guys gone so soft on us after such a crazy and promising first week?

Because the more I think about the update, the more I dislike it, including the "big reveal" that fell flat on its nose before it had even started. It would have made more sense to me to tie Elias' membership directly to Felicia losing/winning the competition. And it would have helped had you painted him less as an adulterous asshole and more as guy who only seeks their connection to win the upcoming election. This would have made Felicia's betrayal more substantial and his threat more meaningful.

It was, it seems, more important though to spend 2-3 scenes on Sophia instead of driving the plot forward. Why? I've got no clue. She was nowhere near important as the other girls before but somehow needed to worm her way into Edwin's heart with her autistic demeanor. And when Edwin fucks her during the orgy, no one seem to care that he's actually dating Hana the ice queen, who's of course clueless about everything. There's not a even hint that any of the perverts will use the chance to score some brownie points with her or use the information to drive her out of the game.

So what does Hana do this update? Takes one step forward only to take two steps backwards. The window of getting corrupted by this club has pretty much closed for her at this point or it would have been telegraphed by now. No, instead of having her step up to the task for once she again turns into a blushing virgin who gives compliments like a first grader praising their teacher. Is that really all that's in store for her?

Imagine someone had interrupted their photo session to add much needed spice and conflict to this update. Or what if she had flipped the script on Kathleen and pulled on her nipples to make it clear she's not the pushover she used to be? You know, some kind of growth for a change that is influenced by how much she can rely on Edwin, for example. Showing only 1:1 sessions (in a sex club, no less) with no interruptions or twists feels like a missed opportunity to me.

 

[X2JZcf]

And when Edwin fucks her during the orgy, no one seem to care that he's actually dating Hana the ice queen, who's of course clueless about everything. There's not a even hint that any of the perverts will use the chance to score some brownie points with her or use the information to drive her out of the game.

Thanks Sophia for drugs + coke.

 

[sunaboz]

I don't have time to respond to the whole post so for now I'll argue only this bit:

(...)
And when Edwin fucks her during the orgy, no one seem to care that he's actually dating Hana the ice queen, who's of course clueless about everything. There's not a even hint that any of the perverts will use the chance to score some brownie points with her or use the information to drive her out of the game. (...)

First they would have to know that she's his girlfriend. Even if they knew why would they care about Hana? She's a nobody. She's supposedly a co-owner now but it's not like she has a deed/document that would say it and even if she had she's a kid without any muscle behind her. She has no respect, recall her conversation with Kimberly. If even whores laugh to her face imagine what real VIPs might think of her. The only reason she's treated with respect is that August has her back. With him out of the picture she's meat (look at how Warren treats her for example and recall his suggestion to Kathleen to fuck her).

Also, Hana said "the club is the club but outside of it you're mine" so unless you're suggesting she would go back on her word I don't see how sex with Sophia during an orgy could be used against Edwin. Hana knew what she was agreeing to when she said that.

Besides, calling Hana a girlfriend is a strong word. They know each other for a month and it's a budding relationship so even if it won't work out there shouldn't be much of a blowback.

 

[pinuz1]

Lots of choices and a story are great, of course, when it all leads somewhere... But there are very few H-scenes for nine months of development. At the same time, there's a lot of plot and those same "empty" choices. Apparently, the developer has been working on this game for so long that they've forgotten they're making a porn game, and its core is H-scenes, not a story and various meaningless choices. And this is already the second such pointless update, and considering that you have to wait almost a year for each update, it's quite disappointing... especially if something similar happens next year...

Hana gets two h-scene, Mina has a h-scene, Lucy has another one, Allison, Sophia, there's the huge orgy scene, the Vicky tapes scene depending on what you chose at the end of last update.

Maybe you just pressed skip everytime a pair of tits wasn't on the screen and didn't even bother to check all the stuff in the update? If anything this is one of the chapters with the most H-scenes.

 

[Turret]

It's that kind of thinking that made this update safe and boring as fuck. You got the keys to the kingdom. It is you who put him in this situation, not us. Maybe don't pull us in with a circus of depravity only to chicken out at the last minute. Why have you guys gone so soft on us after such a crazy and promising first week?

Because the more I think about the update, the more I dislike it, including the "big reveal" that fell flat on its nose before it had even started. It would have made more sense to me to tie Elias' membership directly to Felicia losing/winning the competition. And it would have helped had you painted him less as an adulterous asshole and more as guy who only seeks their connection to win the upcoming election. This would have made Felicia's betrayal more substantial and his threat more meaningful.

It was, it seems, more important though to spend 2-3 scenes on Sophia instead of driving the plot forward. Why? I've got no clue. She was nowhere near important as the other girls before but somehow needed to worm her way into Edwin's heart with her autistic demeanor. And when Edwin fucks her during the orgy, no one seem to care that he's actually dating Hana the ice queen, who's of course clueless about everything. There's not a even hint that any of the perverts will use the chance to score some brownie points with her or use the information to drive her out of the game.

So what does Hana do this update? Takes one step forward only to take two steps backwards. The window of getting corrupted by this club has pretty much closed for her at this point or it would have been telegraphed by now. No, instead of having her step up to the task for once she again turns into a blushing virgin who gives compliments like a first grader praising their teacher. Is that really all that's in store for her?

Imagine someone had interrupted their photo session to add much needed spice and conflict to this update. Or what if she had flipped the script on Kathleen and pulled on her nipples to make it clear she's not the pushover she used to be? You know, some kind of growth for a change that is influenced by how much she can rely on Edwin, for example. Showing only 1:1 sessions (in a sex club, no less) with no interruptions or twists feels like a missed opportunity to me.

Hi!
Sorry that a lot of content not focused on depravity flew by you. I am rather sure your Edwin has maxed out his hardness score and is best buddies with Kath, Chuck, Allison and the other unhinged in the Club. That is fully ok that you want to play that routes, but there is also content for those liking less corruption and wanting to play an Edwin with a rest of conscience intact.

E.g. Sophia is one of the most important characters in the game on routes not focused on total corruption and moral decay, even if she is not always hovering around Edwin. Also you seem to overlook that Edwin does not necessarily need to date Hana, there are routes where Edwin is dating e.g. Felicia, Mina, Rosi or no one when the orgy happens.
Besides it seems you missed the point that choosing Sophia means you are not really part of that orgy around them. Choosing Sophia is you two setting a counterpoint to what happens there.

 

[slightchance]

First they would have to know that she's his girlfriend. Even if they knew why would they care about Hana? She's a nobody.

Am I the one who failed to write Hana into a better position? Is that the status quo she has to live with until Kathleen buys her out or comes up with a different retirement plan? Why do M&J not strengthen her position and pretend nothing bad could happen?

Also, Hana said "the club is the club but outside of it you're mine" so unless you're suggesting she would go back on her word I don't see how sex with Sophia during an orgy could be used against Edwin. Hana knew what she was agreeing to when she said that.

Potato banana. Edwin doesn't seem all to convinced about this arrangement, dropping here and there lines about what she would say about him having sex with someone not directly tied to his duties in the club (e.g Allison). Treating it like a blank check to fuck whoever might not be her idea of...ah what the hell, you're probably right. She's fucking gullible, why would she even care.

 

[pinuz1]

Damn, haven't seen this thread so active in a while so no idea if this was brought before, but I'm a bit sad my dreams of Edwin fucking the pregnant house girl yoori are shattered, since she seems to be in labor
At least the "new" house girl (can't remember the name) that we see Hana and August arguing with is pretty hot, hope Edwin get to try her
Can't wait for the next update

Oh damn this is something I wanted to mention but I forgot, Yoori might be a girl we fuck the next week, she's supposedly the top earner, and the one time Edwin talked with her she was really cute and interesting, I'm guessing HS1 makes it hard to animate pregnant stuff? otherwise I don't see why they would make her give labor , also the club would surely make her work next week, we know how ruthless they are.

The "new" girl (I think her name was Kimber?) is indeed pretty hot, we'll see if Edwin can have some payback soon.

Well, I guess they're right when they say that there's no pleasing some people.

Jeez, some posts I've been reading here since when this update has come out are really, really, really stupid, you know.

Honestly that's what one should expect in the first few days of a release, some people that only boot up the game, press the fast forward button, and only play the sex scenes, if their favorite girl doesn't get something then it was bad and leave a comment on how they are dissapointed or it was "too short" etc.

 

[TD1900]

It's that kind of thinking that made this update safe and boring as fuck. You got the keys to the kingdom. It is you who put him in this situation, not us. Maybe don't pull us in with a circus of depravity only to chicken out at the last minute. Why have you guys gone so soft on us after such a crazy and promising first week?

You make some assumptions that are difficult to unravel without spoiling too much, so I'll just ask, why do you assume it won't get back to Hana? Every encounter is flagged.

What gives you the impression Hana can't or won't be corrupted? What do you think the arc she started on updates ago is about?

Hana is like the most central heroine in the game, with arguably a more compelling character arc than Edwin. Maybe my imagination is more limited than yours, but she won't be a wallflower. I promise.

Besides that, all I will add is that I hope exhibition 3 proper satisfies what you're looking for.

 

[GIL3D]

It's that kind of thinking that made this update safe and boring as fuck. You got the keys to the kingdom. It is you who put him in this situation, not us. Maybe don't pull us in with a circus of depravity only to chicken out at the last minute. Why have you guys gone so soft on us after such a crazy and promising first week?

I understand your frustration stems from passion but please... No one is forcing you to play the game. What "crazy" things happened in week one anyways? In Unicron's own words, "you exaggerate".

It would have made more sense to me to tie Elias' membership directly to Felicia losing/winning the competition.

No, this route and the moment it created is ten times better than your suggestion in my opinion. It allowed us to learn more about how the Club actually operates and its true nature. I rebuke.

It was, it seems, more important though to spend 2-3 scenes on Sophia instead of driving the plot forward. Why? I've got no clue.

If you don't like her character, that's fine, but I think you're confused about what it means to move the plot forward in this tale.

And when Edwin fucks her during the orgy, no one seem to care that he's actually dating Hana the ice queen, who's of course clueless about everything. There's not a even hint that any of the perverts will use the chance to score some brownie points with her or use the information to drive her out of the game.

You should know better than to expect instant consequences of your actions with us. We don't do that here.

...Or what if she had flipped the script on Kathleen and pulled on her nipples to make it clear she's not the pushover she used to be? You know, some kind of growth for a change that is influenced by how much she can rely on Edwin, for example.

We see character growth differently. You're suggesting almost a 180º in days. TD knows better.

E.g. Sophia is one of the most important characters in the game on routes not focused on total corruption and moral decay, even if she is not always hovering around Edwin. Also you seem to overlook that Edwin does not necessarily need to date Hana, there are routes where Edwin is dating e.g. Felicia, Mina, Rosi or no one when the orgy happens.
Besides it seems you missed the point that choosing Sophia means you are not really part of that orgy around them. Choosing Sophia is you two setting a counterpoint to what happens there.

There is a 3rd option you forget... not partaking at all. Sophia represents something, for sure, but it might not be what you think.

 

[slightchance]

That is fully ok that you want to play that routes, but there is also content for those liking less corruption and wanting to play an Edwin with a rest of conscience intact.

Not sure why you believe just because you got your cake that the other routes where in any way satisfying. How would you even know?

E.g. Sophia is one of the most important characters in the game on routes not focused on total corruption and moral decay

Well your love for Sophia didn't go unnoticed. When I played the update I honestly thought for a second you had bribed them both to include her in as many scenes as possible. That's how useless I thought her scenes were. It smelled too much like that samurai analogy you came up with.

 

[sunaboz]

(...)
Am I the one who failed to write Hana into a better position? Is that the status quo she has to live with until Kathleen buys her out or comes up with a different retirement plan? Why do M&J not strengthen her position and pretend nothing bad could happen? (...)

It's a fail only in your mind because the script doesn't align with your expectations. Just so happens that Hana's position changed only recently, with time her position might change but you can't expect her to suddenly become someone equal to Kathleen for example. She has no connections, she has no education or achievements of her own. Expecting Hana to have a better position from the start is just stupid. The author of the story has set it up in a way that it makes things interesting and has many potential developments, you can be sure it wasn't just for giggles nor to annoy you.

Edwin has been in the club only for a month and Hana's promotion is even more recent so expecting her position to strengthen significantly at this point of the story is ridiculous.

Potato banana. Edwin doesn't seem all to convinced about this arrangement, dropping here and there lines about what she would say about him having sex with someone not directly tied to his duties in the club (e.g Allison). Treating it like a blank check to fuck whoever might not be her idea of...ah what the hell, you're probably right. She's fucking gullible, why would she even care.

No shit. The thing is, game being a proper CYOA visual novel (i.e. the best kind) we don't have our hands tied and we can think one thing at one point and another at another. Edwin might think he wants relationship with Hana and agrees to it but when he sees someone like Allison or Sophia he just can't help himself, consequences be damned. Simple as that. His infidelity would have a much bigger impact if they would be in a long relationship but it's an even more recent thing than Hana's promotion so everything is nicely logical. TD for real is a skilled writer, you failing to see that reflects badly on you.

 

[MagicMan753]

What? Rose has some of the most prominent, front-loaded content in the game. She's the first branching path you can enter, she's the first official carnation you get introduced to (Felicia doesn't count imo), and for a while she had the most scenes in the Memory viewer. You can be sad she didn't get much this update but don't act like she's being neglected lol.

I really don't think her content is as front loaded as you think. She actually has less then other girls if you remove the sadistic stuff or sharing her, which I don't enjoy. And with her having two routes, romance and sadistic, her content always feels short, quick, an afterthought, I mean during week 3 she didn't even get her own dedicated update, she shared wirh other girls, where everyone else got dedicated updates with full dates, longer scenes, etc.

So to me, it feels like she has been neglected, others may not feel that way, thats just how I do.

Honestly that's what one should expect in the first few days of a release, some people that only boot up the game, press the fast forward button, and only play the sex scenes, if their favorite girl doesn't get something then it was bad and leave a comment on how they are dissapointed or it was "too short" etc.

To go off my comment above and previous posts, I really hope you and the other guy aren't referring to me. I didn't skip anything, I play it all. And look it may come across like I hate the devs or this is the worst update, I really did enjoy it, it just hurts to see the Rose thing after she really didn't get her own update like others, romance path gets split with sadistic and we really don't get any moments even small while the other two at least have that.( At least from what I remember, missed something as someone pointed out probably)

And I know both devs are working hard and I am trying to have hope everything will work out, Rose will get the love she deserves and long scenes or content, etc. its just hard when too many games recently have done the same thing with my favorite girls. I am just tired of getting burned on my fav girls in other games getting shafted, feeling like a side girl or the short end of the stick.

But like I said I guess I just got to believe in the devs, hopefully it will work out, but its just hard not to feel letdown right now.

But still it is a great job Td and Gil, and I am not trying to be this attacking about his issue, so sorry if it came across that way, I just want better for Rose. Do keep up the great work, cause you are do amazing. Now, I will move on from this subject for now, until next update, cause no point in bringing up same discussion.

 

[slightchance]

We see character growth differently. You're suggesting almost a 180º in days. TD knows better.

Do you believe character growth is a linear function? You put x in and then you can predict where the character will end up at point y? I know that every media has its limit and that results shouldn't exceed the readers exceptions of the established framework but don't make it sound like there aren't any wildcards like upbringing, environment, hormone imbalance or drugs that will alter a characters trajectory momentarily or forever, which can also make storytelling more compelling.
They say don't let the intrusive thoughts win but no one will deny they exist.

You make some assumptions that are difficult to unravel without spoiling too much, so I'll just ask, why do you assume it won't get back to Hana?

I never said I knew. You, as the author, can write her into anything if you feel like, that's a fact (even if it doesn't make sense to me). I felt this would have been the last moment to give her enough time to get a foot in the door, to either let her flourish on her own terms or make her take a more passive role. I don't see any merit in her "loosing her innocence" without giving her a chance to succeed and to convince her colleagues of being a valuable asset. There's one week left (?) and you decided to dress her up in lingerie and make her listening to Kathleen's patronizing speech about women in the work place. Sure, blame her silence on drugs. That will help her case.

 

[Idontplay]

Anyway, why discuss in these terms about an update which isn't an update? In fact this is just the first half of the Ch.4 Update 6 and the decision to split the update in two was a last minute thing, so it is highly probable that certain things will make sense (or will show their really importance) only when the second half of this update will be released; or in the future chapter of the game.

 

[Discrepancy]

Anyway, why discuss in these terms about an update which isn't an update? In fact this is just the first half of the Ch.4 Update 6 and the decision to split the update in two was a last minute thing, so it is highly probable that certain things will make sense (or will show their really importance) only when the second half of this update will be released; or in the future chapter of the game.

This is an update, I don't have data but I'm pretty sure most are satisfied with what is there, or are like me that thinks this was one of the best updates TD and Gil ever done, or even maybe the best.
Don't let some loud voices that didn't like it (they have every right to not like it though) dissuade you from trying it, I'm assuming you didn't yet.