VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[BrockLanders]

In the actual true hidden ending Edwin will marry Ian.

Edwin awakens after their first encounter with a sore asshole and an itchy crotch. As he contemplates his uncomfortable predicament, a USB thumb drive left out on the coffee table catches his eye. He pops it in and plays the file. And as his face is bathed in the warm, soft glow of Caucasian skin and velvet sheets, we regard his slowly wrenching expression turning into disgust as he realizes who the voices he hears are.

Before he even recognizes their writhing bodies, Edwin has discerned their identity in spite of the din of Karen Well screaming her head off in the background. His jaw still firmly weighed to the ground, Katherine finally wins and his psyche is irreparably destroyed as he hears those dreaded words that haunt him in his prison cell to this very night...

"Don't thank me yet Ian, you haven't even tasted it yet."

The novel ends abruptly on a black screen.

STILL NO RENDERED MOTHERFUCKING. STILL NO NTR.

 

[TD1900]

Edwin awakens after their first encounter with a sore asshole and an itchy crotch. As he contemplates his uncomfortable predicament, a USB thumb drive left out on the coffee table catches his eye. He pops it in and plays the file. And as his face is bathed in the warm, soft glow of Caucasian skin and velvet sheets, we regard his slowly wrenching expression turning into disgust as he realizes who the voices he hears are.

Before he even recognizes their writhing bodies, Edwin has discerned their identity in spite of the din of Karen Well screaming her head off in the background. His jaw still firmly weighed to the ground, Katherine finally wins and his psyche is irreparably destroyed as he hears those dreaded words that haunt him in his prison cell to this very night...

"Don't thank me yet Ian, you haven't even tasted it yet."

The novel ends abruptly on a black screen.

STILL NO RENDERED MOTHERFUCKING. STILL NO NTR.

Who the hell leaked our internal documents?

 

[sk456]

Very promising game

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

You heard it here first folks, they will be releasing additional routes in a followup side game after finishing. We need to hold them to this firm promise and bring it up at every possible opportunity.

Pale Carnations Fandisk starring Sophia, Victoria, Grace and Hana's mother. Endings for the true best girls.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

The club in this game is a mix of brothel and the kind of place I'd imagine is designed to cater exclusively to the silver fox types i.e technically voluntary for both but for one of them enjoyment is likely subordinated to the main reason why they're a couple. Also every non-Ian male NPC is the worst version of that type. Actually Ian too cus he coulda swung with Mina like a breeze but he fucks the housekeeper? Severe case of mid-life all around. Kathleen's Sex Spray can't drop soon enough.

The game kinda presents it as if Mina was not very into having sex with Ian and if so only vanilla. So unless he cheated very early on in the relationship and that was the reason for her reluctance, which makes no sense really since she would have just left him if the relationship just begun and he cheated, it's understandable that he was not very satisfied with her if he's into more extreme stuff.

 

[CheatPerv]

Hey! Could someone upload saves? Thanks

 

[Takkatakka]

The game kinda presents it as if Mina was not very into having sex with Ian and if so only vanilla. So unless he cheated very early on in the relationship and that was the reason for her reluctance, which makes no sense really since she would have just left him if the relationship just begun and he cheated, it's understandable that he was not very satisfied with her if he's into more extreme stuff.

I don't think it was ever explicitly stated anywhere, but my interpretation would be, that Ian only ever cared for his own satisfaction. He probably never talked or asked Mina what she wanted. At the same time she had built up this illusion of a "pure innocent girl" when they met each other and she probably either didn't wanted to make herself more vulnerable towards him by deconstructing that illusion or she thought that she had to keep that illusion up, because that was how Ian knows her.

In the end Ian pretty much pushed away what he is kinda looking for, because he is a selfish prick at the very least as far as women are concerned. One might even hypothesis that he is pretty much taking out the hate for his mother on other women by degrading them and just having them serf his needs, doing what he wants without ever asking let alone doing what they want.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

I don't think it was ever explicitly stated anywhere, but my interpretation would be, that Ian only ever cared for his own satisfaction. He probably never talked or asked Mina what she wanted. At the same time she had built up this illusion of a "pure innocent girl" when they met each other and she probably either didn't wanted to make herself more vulnerable towards him by deconstructing that illusion or she thought that she had to keep that illusion up, because that was how Ian knows her.

In the end Ian pretty much pushed away what he is kinda looking for, because he is a selfish prick at the very least as far as women are concerned. One might even hypothesis that he is pretty much taking out the hate for his mother on other women by degrading them and just having them serf his needs, doing what he wants without ever asking let alone doing what they want.

That sounds a bit sexist tbh

"I don't think it was ever explicitly stated anywhere, but my interpretation would be, that Mina only ever cared for her own satisfaction. She probably never talked or asked Ian what he wanted. At the same time he had built up this illusion of a "badboy" when they met each other and he probably either didn't wanted to make himself more vulnerable towards her by deconstructing that illusion or he thought that he had to keep that illusion up, because that was how Mina knows him."

She could have just talked with him about it if she was missing something and also asked him what he likes. But she seemed to not want to do what he was into, didn't tell him what she was into, and kept up this illusion which one could call a lie.

That doesn't justify cheating from Ian and that again doesn't justify her cheating on him, but she seems to be responsible for the shitty relationship as well.


Mina didn't ask Ian what he likes.
Mina didn't want to do what he likes when he told her.

Ian didn't ask Mina what she likes.
Ian might have done what she likes if she told him.

 

[Wacky Woohoo Pizza Man]

Damn Mina can't catch a break, she breaks up with Ian cuz he is an asshole who cheated and is into extreme stuff...only to end up with MC who (if he chooses to) is literally gonna do the same. F in the chat.
(Double timing on Hana/Mina currently, hopefully doesn't blow up in my MC's face).

 

[Bill Temple]

That sounds a bit sexist tbh

"I don't think it was ever explicitly stated anywhere, but my interpretation would be, that Mina only ever cared for her own satisfaction. She probably never talked or asked Ian what he wanted. At the same time he had built up this illusion of a "badboy" when they met each other and he probably either didn't wanted to make himself more vulnerable towards her by deconstructing that illusion or he thought that he had to keep that illusion up, because that was how Mina knows him."

She could have just talked with him about it if she was missing something and also asked him what he likes. But she seemed to not want to do what he was into, didn't tell him what she was into, and kept up this illusion which one could call a lie.

That doesn't justify cheating from Ian and that again doesn't justify her cheating on him, but she seems to be responsible for the shitty relationship as well.


Mina didn't ask Ian what he likes.
Mina didn't want to do what he likes when he told her.

Ian didn't ask Mina what she likes.
Ian might have done what she likes if she told him.

Good point. Poor communication is the root cause of most critical relationship problems. But why is Takkatakka's view sexist? You two were discussing Ian and Mina, not men and women. Placing the greater onus for relationship problems on this fictional man, correctly or not, doesn't equate to a general attack on men.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

Good point. Poor communication is the root cause of most critical relationship problems. But why is Takkatakka's view sexist? You two were discussing Ian and Mina, not men and women. Placing the greater onus for relationship problems on this fictional man, correctly or not, doesn't equate to a general attack on men.

His take on their relationship sounds like viewing everything the girl does through kind and understanding eyes, and everything the guy does through harsh and critical eyes.

 

[Turret]

She could have just talked with him about it if she was missing something and also asked him what he likes. But she seemed to not want to do what he was into, didn't tell him what she was into, and kept up this illusion which one could call a lie.
That doesn't justify cheating from Ian and that again doesn't justify her cheating on him, but she seems to be responsible for the shitty relationship as well.

Mina didn't ask Ian what he likes.
Mina didn't want to do what he likes when he told her.

Ian didn't ask Mina what she likes.
Ian might have done what she likes if she told him.

One important thing here too is that the Mina fans just assume that Ian was a prick to Mina from the get go, so that she did not tell him her fantasies.
While the Ian we know after Uncle Chuck got his hands on him is far from being perfect boyfriend material, esp. in the early chapters there are hints that in the beginning Ian was charming and able to win Mina over. We can even stablilise the romance score of the two, if we want to.
And Ian is quite open about a lot of his sexual desires and e.g. at the birthday party we can see that Ian is open to experiment with Mina, while she played innocence to the point that Hana teased the hell out of Mina. As Hana said paraphrased "She is so easy to tease, I could not resist."
Ian is the main culprit why his relationship with Mina crashed, no doubt about it, but when it comes to Mina´s bucket list, that is not Ian´s fault she never told him.

 

[ename144]

One important thing here too is that the Mina fans just assume that Ian was a prick to Mina from the get go, so that she did not tell him her fantasies.
While the Ian we know after Uncle Chuck got his hands on him is far from being perfect boyfriend material, esp. in the early chapters there are hints that in the beginning Ian was charming and able to win Mina over. We can even stablilise the romance score of the two, if we want to.
And Ian is quite open about a lot of his sexual desires and e.g. at the birthday party we can see that Ian is open to experiment with Mina, while she played innocence to the point that Hana teased the hell out of Mina. As Hana said paraphrased "She is so easy to tease, I could not resist."
Ian is the main culprit why his relationship with Mina crashed, no doubt about it, but when it comes to Mina´s bucket list, that is not Ian´s fault she never told him.

I really don't understand this outlook. Mina is very uncomfortable with her sexual desires; they're not something 'suitable' for good girls. Do you really think the first thing she's going to do once she finally gets a boyfriend is to blurt out her all shameful kinks? Of course not. She's going to wait a bit to get a sense of whether he'd be scandalized by her dirty, dirty thoughts.

Now I'm certain it didn't take long for Mina to conclude that Ian wouldn't be scandalized, but I'm also certain it took her even less time to realize Ian was a complete cad. After all, we know Ian's bad attitude from women stems from Chuck's influence; he's been working with Chuck at the Club for three years but only dating Mina for 10 months. We know Ian places no value on monogamy. We know that both Ian and Mina are surprised it took her this long to break up with him. All the evidence we've seen suggests that Ian would have proven himself thoroughly untrustworthy long before he could have proven himself a fellow deviant.

Above all else, however, we know that Ian liked to make Mina jealous because "she tries that much harder in bed afterwards." In other words, when Mina does demonstrate her more adventurous side, Ian doesn't attribute that to her, he attributes that to him treating her badly. What more proof do you need that Ian wasn't going to leap at the chance to help Mina wave her own freak flag no matter how directly she broached the subject? More than likely he'd just use it as ammo the next time she caught him with someone else's lipstick on his collar: "Okay, maybe I got a little carried away with whats-her-name, but at least I don't want to get covered in stinking cum like you do!"

IMHO, Ian would never have been willing to help Mina explore her list on her own terms (assuming he even realized she *had* a list) because he never saw Mina as a peer. She was a tool for his amusement and tools don't have agendas of their own. Ian needed the MC to give him a swift kick in the complacency before he twigged to the fact that Mina was more than just a doll.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

One important thing here too is that the Mina fans just assume that Ian was a prick to Mina from the get go, so that she did not tell him her fantasies.
While the Ian we know after Uncle Chuck got his hands on him is far from being perfect boyfriend material, esp. in the early chapters there are hints that in the beginning Ian was charming and able to win Mina over. We can even stablilise the romance score of the two, if we want to.
And Ian is quite open about a lot of his sexual desires and e.g. at the birthday party we can see that Ian is open to experiment with Mina, while she played innocence to the point that Hana teased the hell out of Mina. As Hana said paraphrased "She is so easy to tease, I could not resist."
Ian is the main culprit why his relationship with Mina crashed, no doubt about it, but when it comes to Mina´s bucket list, that is not Ian´s fault she never told him.

I really don't understand this outlook. Mina is very uncomfortable with her sexual desires; they're not something 'suitable' for good girls. Do you really think the first thing she's going to do once she finally gets a boyfriend is to blurt out her all shameful kinks? Of course not. She's going to wait a bit to get a sense of whether he'd be scandalized by her dirty, dirty thoughts.

Now I'm certain it didn't take long for Mina to conclude that Ian wouldn't be scandalized, but I'm also certain it took her even less time to realize Ian was a complete cad. After all, we know Ian's bad attitude from women stems from Chuck's influence; he's been working with Chuck at the Club for three years but only dating Mina for 10 months. We know Ian places no value on monogamy. We know that both Ian and Mina are surprised it took her this long to break up with him. All the evidence we've seen suggests that Ian would have proven himself thoroughly untrustworthy long before he could have proven himself a fellow deviant.

Above all else, however, we know that Ian liked to make Mina jealous because "she tries that much harder in bed afterwards." In other words, when Mina does demonstrate her more adventurous side, Ian doesn't attribute that to her, he attributes that to him treating her badly. What more proof do you need that Ian wasn't going to leap at the chance to help Mina wave her own freak flag no matter how directly she broached the subject? More than likely he'd just use it as ammo the next time she caught him with someone else's lipstick on his collar: "Okay, maybe I got a little carried away with whats-her-name, but at least I don't want to get covered in stinking cum like you do!"

IMHO, Ian would never have been willing to help Mina explore her list on her own terms (assuming he even realized she *had* a list) because he never saw Mina as a peer. She was a tool for his amusement and tools don't have agendas of their own. Ian needed the MC to give him a swift kick in the complacency before he twigged to the fact that Mina was more than just a doll.

The main thing is imho that if Ian cheated visibly from the get-go even Mina would have just ended it right then and there. It takes a bit of time to get on the hook. Also how I remember it, Ian is not really treating Mina "badly"(aside from the cheating), like we can see at the birthday party or in the cafe or in the flashback. He just doesn't treat her like a nice guy, is teasing her strongly and sometimes just doesn't care like with the shopping. But its not like he insults her, humiliates her or beats her. Also even when he cheated at some point she probably didn't find out for quite some time. So if she refuses to have more than starfish position sex with him for no reason until that point, and he needs to make her jealous to get some more passionate sex - that doesn't really tells a good story about her.

So I think nobody argues that Ian did wrong at some point, but the question is if Mina was behaving blameless as a girlfriend. Or if she was maybe even partly responsible for Ian's dissatisfaction by not only refusing to have good sex/sex at all with her boyfriend - but acting like that even though she wanted non-vanilla sex.

Ian is not responsible for her upbringing or her innocent image she tries to convey. It makes no sense to me that Mina thought Ian would look down on her if she would have agreed to something that he suggests doing in bed. Or that someone like Ian would have been offended by her ideas. But then again, if she refuses his ideas he would have all right to refuse hers.

Maybe she didn't tell him because she had fucked-up desires like cheating on a boyfriend?

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

The main thing is imho that if Ian cheated visibly from the get-go even Mina would have just ended it right then and there. It takes a bit of time to get on the hook. Also how I remember it, Ian is not really treating Mina "badly"

Ian said he likes to test the limits of people by pissing them off so he can see their shit. Mina didn't give him that and was more like a mirror that let him see his own.

Spoiler

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This seems more like a calculated act of self-discovery/sabotage which goes beyond cheating and that treating Mina badly was part of the process.

Maybe she didn't tell him because she had fucked-up desires like cheating on a boyfriend?

Maybe. Don't think it has to be one or the other.

 

[Takkatakka]

That sounds a bit sexist tbh

"I don't think it was ever explicitly stated anywhere, but my interpretation would be, that Mina only ever cared for her own satisfaction. She probably never talked or asked Ian what he wanted. At the same time he had built up this illusion of a "badboy" when they met each other and he probably either didn't wanted to make himself more vulnerable towards her by deconstructing that illusion or he thought that he had to keep that illusion up, because that was how Mina knows him."

She could have just talked with him about it if she was missing something and also asked him what he likes. But she seemed to not want to do what he was into, didn't tell him what she was into, and kept up this illusion which one could call a lie.

She didn't ask him, because he was probably always telling her, what he wanted her to do. Some of the scenes in the early game show, that they had a very abusive relationship. Not in the physical sense as in Ian beating Mina, but in the psychological sense. When you're in the club and Mina gets angry with Ian you can actually talk to him and he will explain how he is pretty much manipulating and abusing Mina to make her do what he wants.

So obviously Mina didn't had much trust in him to make herself more vulnerable by talking with him about her wishes. He would most likely only exploit her wishes for his own fun anyway...or that would most likely be, what she was afraid of.
That she has no problem talking about her wishes with people, she hardly knows but who build up at least a modicum of trust with her like the MC just shows how bad the relationship between Ian and Mina actually was. I said it before: They were more fuckbuddies than in an actual committed mutual relationship and the MC has probably done more for her by now, than Ian ever did.

Of course a lot of that is just my interpretation of what little we have actually seen of her relationship and what we have seen of Ian's behavior so far.

 

[Turret]

I really don't understand this outlook.(...)

Hi!
I think you missinterpret some arguments here. Many Mina fans assume that Ian treated her badly from the start, so she never told him of her bucket list, which simply cannot be the case. They would not have come/stayed together if that was the case. We know that Ian can be charming if he wants to and when he met Mina, while he was already influenced by Chuck, it was not to the degree he is in the present of PC. There are several hints throughout the game that Ian until starting his selfsabotage later on, he and Mina certainly hit it off.
We even have evidance of this in the game, when it is nearly too late to do something. e.g. There is one outcome of the altercation in the disco where Mina and Ian are clearly happy with each other.

While Ian went far too far with his cheating and it does not excuse his actions, one piece of info we learn about Ian and Mina´s situation in the bedroom does paint a not so good picture about Mina as well, esp. knowing she has her bucketlist. That Ian has to rouse Mina´s jealousy by flirting with other girls to get a hotter roll in the hay with her is not a good sign.
By the time this started (in the past of the game) Mina will certainly had learned that Ian gets off on wild sex, would not look down on her for her sex fantasies and Ian would also be more than happy to experiment with her. But she still played the role of the quasi innocent, despite wanting the same kind of sex as Ian.

Mina playing the innocent role is even more obvious with Hana at the birthday. Mina and Hana click early on with each other there and it is strikingly obvious by Hana´s looks and what she tells us, that there not much which can shock here and she is a quite open girl.
Sure, you normally do not tell someone you know only a couple hours your deepest sex fantasies, but how Mina reacts to and treats Hana and Ian during the truth and dare game is telling. For example the sharp look Mina gives Hana for talking about a kink more tame than most of Mina´s fantasies she wants to realise some day. That is totally unneccesary from Mina. Or how she reacts to some other revelations in the company of people she can be sure(!) won´t think less of her if they knew her kinks and in that case they don´t. But she still plays the innocent one to a ridicilous degree. So much that Hana knowing her for just that evening cannot stop herself from teasing the hell out of Mina.

We just argue that while Ian was the main culprit of their break up, Mina is not completely blameless.

 

[True_Degenerate]

Spoiler: On Ian's treatment of Mina.

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Spoiler: On Mina's treatment of Ian.

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Spoiler: On Mina-Ian communication.

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Spoiler: On Mina not leaving Ian sooner.

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Spoiler: On Mina and cheating.

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[Takkatakka]

Spoiler: On Ian's treatment of Mina.

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Spoiler: On Mina's treatment of Ian.

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Spoiler: On Mina-Ian communication.

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Spoiler: On Mina not leaving Ian sooner.

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Spoiler: On Mina and cheating.

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Gee...I wonder, why she never just talked with Ian about what she wants...

 

[BrockLanders]

Spoiler: On Ian's treatment of Mina.

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Spoiler: On Mina's treatment of Ian.

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Spoiler: On Mina-Ian communication.

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Spoiler: On Mina not leaving Ian sooner.

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Spoiler: On Mina and cheating.

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From the moment he stood at the bar and admitted to Edwin that he was making Mina jealous so she'd work harder in bed, I knew he was an absolute piece of shit. Anyone who still believes that Mina was the problem in that relationship or that Ian is misunderstood is just projecting at this point. I was too lazy to go back and re-screenshot these examples. Excellent work!