VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

Hmm... I could swear I saw the option.
But oh well, maybe it's just something like a deja vu.

If it was really long ago perhaps it was before the inevitable breakup became part of the game, and so walkthrough would make it appear like it was possible for their relationship to continue.

 

[Idontplay]

EDIT
My mistake: the post in which we can find the walkthrough goes back to 2022, but the walkthrough was updated few months ago; I apologize.

 

[Simpgor]

The walkthrough is "only" two years old, so why should we think it is outdated?

I dont think they are saying the walkthrough was outdated but that if the last time someone read it was before Mina and Ian are "forced" to break up in game then the walkhrough would show you how to get a scene (1st scene with Mina) without them breaking up?

That or the guy just mandela effected himself

 

[reeroll]

(Caveat before replying: I am not a trained psychoanalyst, but am somewhat familiar w/the field, and had major social disassociative tendencies myself, growing up; seeing people as behavioral patterns of varying predictabilities, rather than people, tho that bothered me as I could feel it was wrong. It was only in my 20s that this began to self-correct, after seeing strong counterexamples to my mode in certain other people)

Sociopaths do NOT lack emotions. They simply lack empathy and conscience, like psychopaths, but psychopaths are BORN that way, and DO tend to have (oft chillingly) muted emotions, while sociopaths BECOME that way from negative experiences, and tend to have difficulty regulating emotions. Sociopaths can apparently have a limited empathy that manifests more as a focus on loyalty to family and a small circle of friends, but lack real empathy or conscience.

Now..

MC is emotionally detatched and definitely has flat affect, but has a strong concern, as the story begins, as to whether or not he is a good person. People with no conscience or empathy do NOT ask themselves that question. EVER. It would never occur to them to even think about it, much less care.

MC has issues, and possibly some sociopathic tendencies, but an actual sociopath or psychopath would NOT have thought to advise The Carnations to have each others' backs; that sort of social/emotional awareness would just not have been there in such personalities; antisocial types are blind to such things.

A sociopath MIGHT feel appreciation for his mother doing porn to support him, but likely would not have maintained a real concern over reciprocating affection, if such regularly inconvenienced him; at some point, anger, impatience, etc, would have derailed the relationship into more negative habits.

My two cents. Not a shrink, but am fairly familiar w/the subject.

EDIT: In rare cases, a psychopath raised in a VERY loving home can have a sort of reverse effect to sociopathy, becoming more socially attuned and integrated. The one example I know of (a doctor who realized he was a psychopath, from his brain scans), nonetheless exhibited excessive competitiveness (w/n willingly lose games to his grandkids to spare their feelings), unwillingness to share food (IIRC), etc. MC is not overly competitive, shares food, and (importantly) thinks in terms of high ideals, not just material wants, whereas psychopathic speech patterns are natively almost exclusively materialist unless prodded into other spheres by outside sources

very good summary. fun fact they are most commonly found in neurosurgeons or other surgeon jobs alike where the stress is high and the patient has high risk of getting crippled,killed by accident if the surgery goes wrong.
that is to say that those psychopaths are useful since an "average joe" would be clumsy and fuck up the surgery due to stress.
there was even a researcher who made list of the top jobs where you can find the most psychopaths.
to sum up ONLY IF raised in a GOOD environnment a psychopath can be useful for society at large .

 

[lustforsex]

I have a great desire to find out what is written in Felicia's winning essay. She asked to read it the next day when she's not around but I'm not entirely sure that will be in the next update

 

[ename144]

Hmm... I could swear I saw the option.
But oh well, maybe it's just something like a deja vu.

We had this choice following Mina's first big scene back in Chapter 3 Update 3:

AFAICT our choice has no bearing on Mina formally breaking up with Ian in Chapter 4; her own pace turns out to be the ASAP. It's possible it will have some other effects under the hood, since more recent versions of the walkthrough suggest the game is recording the choice.

 

[Ummmh]

very good summary. fun fact they are most commonly found in neurosurgeons or other surgeon jobs alike where the stress is high and the patient has high risk of getting crippled,killed by accident if the surgery goes wrong.
that is to say that those psychopaths are useful since an "average joe" would be clumsy and fuck up the surgery due to stress.
there was even a researcher who made list of the top jobs where you can find the most psychopaths.
to sum up ONLY IF raised in a GOOD environnment a psychopath can be useful for society at large .

Dr. James Fallon, the man who found he was a psychopath from his brain scans, was a neuroscientist. Not sure how much actual surgery would be involved.

CONJECTURE FOLLOWS:

It's possible that psychopaths might also gravitate towards neurosurgery and neuroscience, because the brain is the seat of power of the person, and they would then have power over that seat of power.

A suspicion of mine is that since psychopaths do not believe in a moral underpinning of the universe, they might then inherently believe that everything is random and potentially chaotically dangerous, so staying ahead of the curve in terms of readiness of action, so always being the tip of the spear, would appeal to them. Thus, manipulation of other people tends to be high on their priority list, and being able to mess with someone's brain would literally be an ultimate experience of that.

They might also have an inclination to fascination with how the brain works, since their own brains are so unusual.

This is, of course, conjecture on my part.

PS

I tend not to thinkin terms of a person's "use" to society, though their relation to others, and in the universe as a whole, does catch my attention.

That focus on societal use is one of the deficits I feel in mainstream psychology: it seems to be primarily looking to create a docile, useful work unit. This is why, to me, the "big five" model is less an objective model of Personality than it is a subjective shopping list of what society wants. It's also not particularly well investigated or analyzed since two of its operations openness to new ideas and conscientiousness have been shown to be in a diametrically opposed inverse relationship at the macro scale where subjective BS tends to get washed away. So it really should be called the Big Four with at least one of them being a spectrum

The problem with Psychopaths, to me, is that they are inherently prone to be liars. By default, they have no compulsion to tell the truth: only to say whatever serves their ends at the moment.

My personality is wired towards relating, receiving, and acting upon accurate information. Thus, for me, a psychopath is inherently untrustworthy, and that would obviously create a problem with them being "of use" in society, imo.

 

[dolfe67]

We had this choice following Mina's first big scene back in Chapter 3 Update 3:
View attachment 3860945
AFAICT our choice has no bearing on Mina formally breaking up with Ian in Chapter 4; her own pace turns out to be the ASAP. It's possible it will have some other effects under the hood, since more recent versions of the walkthrough suggest the game is recording the choice.

I think that choice changes her relationship status to lover or FWB

 

[ffive]

We had this choice following Mina's first big scene back in Chapter 3 Update 3:
View attachment 3860945
AFAICT our choice has no bearing on Mina formally breaking up with Ian in Chapter 4; her own pace turns out to be the ASAP. It's possible it will have some other effects under the hood, since more recent versions of the walkthrough suggest the game is recording the choice.

After the breakup, Mina will comment MC was right to suggest doing it as soon as possible, if that's what you did. Don't know if it has any other impact.

 

[ename144]

I think that choice changes her relationship status to lover or FWB

No, that comes from the previous choice: helping her makes you Fuck Buddies, kissing her makes you Casual Lovers.

 

[Turret]

No, that comes from the previous choice: helping her makes you Fuck Buddies, kissing her makes you Casual Lovers.
View attachment 3861393

Not only that, as you already mentioned another choice that game records about Mina, a couple of things is recorded here. How high or low her relation score with Ian is, might also play a role later on.
In all of my three "canon" playthroughs (different LI choices) I tried to help Ian and Mina with their relationship. And when they break up, it should be noted that Mina´s love score with Ian, 6-7 points then, does not(!) fall to zero. I think this might play a role later in the game, depending on what else we do.

 

[Visick]

Those who have multiple saves, which ones do y'all roll with? My old save got messed up which is a good excuse to start over from the beginning and do a few different playthroughs. I was thinking at least 3 so that I can help each girl win the club competition. But may do more than 3 depending on what others say. It's hard sometimes to know the different paths possible when the game has different branches like this one does and it's not done yet.

Another one I was thinking of was having a save that tries to best set up a threesome of some sort with Hana and Mina. I know that's not a for sure confirmed possibility as far as I know, but it'd be nice to have a save slot there in case it does happen

 

[pinuz1]

Those who have multiple saves, which ones do y'all roll with? My old save got messed up which is a good excuse to start over from the beginning and do a few different playthroughs. I was thinking at least 3 so that I can help each girl win the club competition. But may do more than 3 depending on what others say. It's hard sometimes to know the different paths possible when the game has different branches like this one does and it's not done yet.

Another one I was thinking of was having a save that tries to best set up a threesome of some sort with Hana and Mina. I know that's not a for sure confirmed possibility as far as I know, but it'd be nice to have a save slot there in case it does happen

Well I dont really do a save focused on one specific girl, mostly because so far the game hasn't given me any reason to? I know it's not going to be Harem or anything but you can interact with every girl and have no problem with the others. That recently just changed with the Hana GF route so I'll have 1 save where I'm loyal to her, but being totally honest, considering the game is still somewhat far away from being finished I see no reason to start saves thinking too much on what ending I'll get, it's mostly something that'll happen eventually.

I'm happy with a save where I can enjoy the newest update and not miss out on it's content, regardless of which girl gets the spotlight .

 

[Ass prefer]

Still, I would like to see Hana in a nun's costume

 

[Turret]

Still, I would like to see Hana in a nun's costume
View attachment 3864865 View attachment 3864866

Welcome to the Pale Carnations Club, 47! (For those not getting the joke: The "nuns" above are from Hitman: Absolution)

 

[Ass prefer]

Or , at least , fan art

 

[Wooloomooloo]

The problem with Psychopaths, to me, is that they are inherently prone to be liars. By default, they have no compulsion to tell the truth: only to say whatever serves their ends at the moment.

By that metric absolutely all kids (and plenty of adults) are Psychopaths. Unsurprising, really, since it directly stems from being in an unequal dependence relationship (which is basically everybody) where direct conflict is not a workable option - kids and parents, wage slaves and their owners, people in relationships etc...

 

[ffive]

By that metric absolutely all kids (and plenty of adults) are Psychopaths.

You are confusing choice to lie due to circumstances with having no compulsion to tell the truth in the first place. With the exclusion of actual psychopaths, all kids etc. are the case of the former, not the latter.

 

[Ummmh]

By that metric absolutely all kids (and plenty of adults) are Psychopaths. Unsurprising, really, since it directly stems from being in an unequal dependence relationship (which is basically everybody) where direct conflict is not a workable option - kids and parents, wage slaves and their owners, people in relationships etc...

Incorrect.

While there are bursts of such behavior in most children, especially the more intelligent ones, children confronted with their lies and asked to explain them will often tell the truth. As I understand it, children lying is usually more identity boundry experimentation, than actual materialist investment.

More, some kids are more strongly predisposed towards accurate information relation from the get-go and, for a certainty, most adults do NOT exhibit the LACK OF EMPATHY AND CONSCIENCE necessary to REFLEXIVELY lie (without an INTERNAL CHECK ON BEHAVIOR) that psychopaths and sociopaths exhibit.

A certain amount of doublethink is required to lie, but that is not much of a factor for psychopaths, and it seems like they might not see the innate need for truth unless it is directly useful towards their goals, or direct consequences are brought upon them for lying.

Lying is not innately an unequal dependence relationship, though there is overlap, and cases where an individual is in a disadvantaged position will probably exacerbate the probability of lying. Lying also very often occurs when a person has power over others but simply doesn't feel any concern for telling the truth, or even just enjoys the experience of lying, if they are truly bent. Consider that the Nazis were in no way in a disadvantaged position, relative to the Jews in the concentration camps, when the Nazis lied and told them the gas chambers were regular showers.

An argument COULD be made, tho, that there is an unequal dependence relationship between the psychopath **and all of existence**, in that psychopaths engaging in lying to control people in order to feel they are powerful **in the face of what they likely perceive as an innately inimically chaotic universe** might be viewing the individual as being a small **and controllable** part of that universe. This supposition is, however, as previously noted, conjecture on my part, tho it does seem to comport with the pattern psychopaths notably and even characteristically oft exhibit.

I can go into that more but it would be much more developed discussion and not really correct material for this discussion thread.

I will also say that modern society, especially as propelled by social media, seems to have a unfortunate increasing trend towards rampant narcissism, which can indeed result in a more commonplace occurrence of dishonesty: a trend that a younger audience, brought up only experiencing a world full of social media, might then mistake for a natively commonplace state.

On the other hand, it could quite easily be that social media, like certain drugs, simply brings out the traits of a person that were already there beneath the surface. Nonetheless, there does seem to be quite a bit more, and more virulent narcissism in the world than there was prior to the predominance of Facebook, TikTok, etc.

This is definitely getting more and more off topic, though.

 

[omegashrn]

Absolutely love this, need more ASAP