VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Lucielz]

Because of those holidays, i finally get myself have some free time to test a few games here on f95 that i found interesting (base on the ratings,comments from other members and the artwork from screenshots), i have discovered about 10 games that i'd love to follow and if they're ever go to steam, without a doubt i'd buy them for sure (though maybe some of them would hardly have a chance to go on steam)

Well, i have to admit that this one is very good,based from what i have experience, the story is kind of fresh to me, i love it when i can learn and see from the point of view of the devs, who give us a unique story that i/we dont have much chance to see it everyday (got bored a lot from a lot of cliches, troupes stories nowaday).
The UI is also clean and very nice to look at, graphic/art is okay, nothing new but personally, i like the look of Felicia, Rosalind and Mina....

However despite all of the things i like/love about this one. I dont think that i'd want to keep follow or continue it anymore. Trust me, i'm an adult and i have gone through or seen something worse/darker, but even so, that doesnt mean i want to see some more of them again, and here is a 3 big minus from me.
(-) Mina sure is sweet, nothing amazing so far from her story but as a FMC, she's doing well enough. On other, Killika is kind of an ass, but he's a very good bro, too nice and the way he treating MC, i dont EVER share a though of doing some bad behind his back, even if he has a worst fetish like NTR by his own best bro, i still cant accept that but for this kind of game, something like that seem unavoidable.
(-) The backstory/story is kind of real (maybe too real and even if can be happend anywhere/somewhere out there, who know) and believeable. I like it because it does give me some new fresh view. But on the other hand, the MC's mother backstory is too....well, kind of too dark for me to keep continue. It's a heart breaker, i know, though i respect and accept that it's just a part of real, harsh life out there somewhere, but as a player, if i have to choose, i'd prefer to avoid to dive any deeper into that kind of story.
(-) Once again, since the story to too real, i cant help but feel it's too dark, too heart breaker when i have to see the girls that i known (almost all of the FMC since most of them working for Carnation) must gone through. You could ask what did i expect when i come here to f95, playing this game and DID NOT expect something like that. Well, you're technically not wrong, but the fact that not all of games on f95 are at this level, it's technically something you could call a brothel-management or something ??? and NTR (genre that i found one of the most disgusted fetish but just leave it at that, since it based on each person pov). I cant help but feel bad, sorry and mad when i see other humilate them, it's a kinky club, yes, but if i dont know them, i could prefer like i dont see anything since seeing other get humilated, i dont think i'd love to take a seat and take a look at what happend. But i known them, none of them are virgin, some are MILF, some in relationship but that doesnt change the fact that we're going to witness that they're slowly become more and more....erm degenerate...day by day. A sad, very sad scene for me to see.

Sorry if some of you find my post make you annoyed. But it's the opposite, if i found some games i didnt like, i would not wasting my time to share you my story/point of view. I dont want to complain for such everything detail thing that i dont like.
Just want to say that the devs doing a very good job, at making player like me found his story is very captived (maybe not everyone but it is for me). I may said i dont want to keep continue for his later work, but it's not because he's bad, in fact it's good, i like it, really but the ways he's approaching is not something i want to break my weak heart with. I wonder if the devs ever read this post, please dont be discourage, in fact keep doing his good job. If this one ever go to steam, i'd buy it for sure, since i cant do patron but to support someone as good as this devs, i think that a must do for me.

P/s: sorry for a long post, and full of broken gramma,sentences. I'll edit/shorten it later but for my feeling, i think it should write it right now before it's cold and i'm too lazy to write it later.

 

[Retromancer]

I like the idea of making her OUR* slut tho' soft* bdsm/master-slave play with such a caring, elegant, beautiful lady would be nice af. and that threesome with Mc's mother and her...... man, I can't imagine.

Leave the MC's mom out of this. The "threesome" I was talking about is a metaphorical, psychological, and emotional one, not a sexual one. I really hope the MCs mom does not get roped into any sexual stuff in this game. Instead, it's way more interesting to see how the MC treats Rosalind based on how the player interprets the mom's past. Is there admiration? Respect? Suppressed anger? Latent rage? Desire, and a feeling of ownership? Fuck mommy incest shit, it's boring. And this game is not boring - not so far.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Leave the MC's mom out of this. The "threesome" I was talking about is a metaphorical, psychological, and emotional one, not a sexual one. I really hope the MCs mom does not get roped into any sexual stuff in this game. Instead, it's way more interesting to see how the MC treats Rosalind based on how the player interprets the mom's past. Is there admiration? Respect? Suppressed anger? Latent rage? Desire, and a feeling of ownership? Fuck mommy incest shit, it's boring. And this game is not boring - not so far.

Kind of heavy handed but I do agree I don't want the mom to be an LI. Her role is used great so far for reasons you mention.

I do find her video clips erotic and never mind seeing clips of them. Maybe I'm sick but knowing what I know it's a perverse pleasure seeing him watching them.

My biggest wish for this vn is that it gets made complete and as the devs intended. It really is a unique classic in the making as far as I'm concerned

 

[Retromancer]

My biggest wish for this vn is that it gets made complete and as the devs intended. It really is a unique classic in the making as far as I'm concerned

1000% Which is why they should be getting more support on Patreon. And yeah my post was heavy handed, but I feel passionately that the psychological aspects of this game are so unusual, and so interesting, that people coming in here and suggesting stuff that ruins that - I need to argue against. Probably don't need to since the devs have said their vision of the game is not going to be compromised, but still. It's almost perfect, like you said

 

[Deniz31]

One of the best looking games using HS.

 

[LadyBee]

any progess report for the next update??

 

[TD1900]

any progess report for the next update??

We're chugging along. Progress has slowed some due to the holidays, but we're about 600 images into the update. Next update should be everything up to the next exhibition, which will be the Sunday of week 1 and the first five days of week 2.

As always, we'll only give a release date that we're 100% sure we'll hit.

 

[sunaboz]

any progess report for the next update??

There's an extensive update on the

You must be registered to see the links

plus a character popularity poll and I encourage everyone to support these devs. They're one of the few who value their patrons and don't "milk" them or make false promises so that cash would keep on flowing. Whether it will stay that way remains to be seen but at this moment there are no better devs.

 

[MoarDakka123]

Hoo boy. While I have my favorites, due to the quality of the writing and posing and visual design they all made a pretty big impression.

Then again, the way Veronica just tackles everything like a god damn diamond battering ram, I think the answer here is pretty clear.

 

[vall6269]

seeing the mom's flashback just hurts, i don't even know if i can keep on playing D:

 

[Watcher X]

seeing the mom's flashback just hurts, i don't even know if i can keep on playing D:

They are powerful scenes but they are important for the story. I can only encourage you to stick with it, but be warned there are more confronting scenes ahead with people you grow to care about.

 

[Watcher X]

There's an extensive update on the

You must be registered to see the links

plus a character popularity poll and I encourage everyone to support these devs. They're one of the few who value their patrons and don't "milk" them or make false promises so that cash would keep on flowing. Whether it will stay that way remains to be seen but at this moment there are no better devs.

Mina is my fav girl, but Felicia is by far the most interesting and enigmatic girl so I voted for her.

Side note, the fact this game only has 140 subscribers is a disgrace. I see lesser games, trash games made with a fraction of the skill and care of this game and they get 1000 subscribers. Open your wallets if you can people, this game deserves it.

 

[Deleted member 2030943]

Side note, the fact this game only has 140 subscribers is a disgrace. I see lesser games, trash games made with a fraction of the skill and care of this game and they get 1000 subscribers. Open your wallets if you can people, this game deserves it.

I think it's an issue with this being a darker themed game. A lot of them seem to drive people away from from support because people like "feel good" games and most people don't want to see their LI getting gangbanged by a bunch of old pervs. I normally wouldn't support a game like this myself except that all the women are actually volunteering for this craziness. If they were being black mailed into it or it was a human trafficking sex ring setting I wouldn't touch it.

I definitely agree with you though. It's an amazing game with a great story and writing. Good writing always hooks me

 

[quorkboy]

Felicia's the only one really there by choice. The others are there because they're desperate. Not as bad (ethically/morally speaking) as blackmail or human trafficking but the club is definitely taking advantage of them.

I think there's a fair amount of support for darker themes - I certainly see it in support for some other games I play - but probably not as much. In a lot of other games either you can avoid the dark path, or in the case of the creepy MC (spying on family members, molesting them in their sleep, corrupting them) in many incest games, most people rationalise this ("the girls fall in love with him, so it's all good") and look at them as good guys. In this game it's a bit more difficult. I don't see the MC as a good guy. I see him as a potential good guy but let's face it - he's actively participating in what's happening to these women. He's at best morally compromised.

A secondary factor is that they're all sexually involved with characters other than the MC. The dislike for that kind of thing is strong in quite a number of people.

 

[Deleted member 2030943]

Felicia's the only one really there by choice. The others are there because they're desperate. Not as bad (ethically/morally speaking) as blackmail or human trafficking but the club is definitely taking advantage of them.

I think there's a fair amount of support for darker themes - I certainly see it in support for some other games I play - but probably not as much. In a lot of other games either you can avoid the dark path, or in the case of the creepy MC (spying on family members, molesting them in their sleep, corrupting them) in many incest games, most people rationalise this ("the girls fall in love with him, so it's all good") and look at them as good guys. In this game it's a bit more difficult. I don't see the MC as a good guy. I see him as a potential good guy but let's face it - he's actively participating in what's happening to these women. He's at best morally compromised.

A secondary factor is that they're all sexually involved with characters other than the MC. The dislike for that kind of thing is strong in quite a number of people.

It's still their choice. They can drop anytime they want. One wants to get her kid into a prestigious school, which is a completely selfish reason. Another girl is in debt. Anyone who has financed a car or taken out loans for college is in debt and one wants to save her business. They do have other choices, but in their minds they believe this is the easy way out of their situations.

 

[ename144]

Felicia's the only one really there by choice. The others are there because they're desperate. Not as bad (ethically/morally speaking) as blackmail or human trafficking but the club is definitely taking advantage of them.

I think there's a fair amount of support for darker themes - I certainly see it in support for some other games I play - but probably not as much. In a lot of other games either you can avoid the dark path, or in the case of the creepy MC (spying on family members, molesting them in their sleep, corrupting them) in many incest games, most people rationalise this ("the girls fall in love with him, so it's all good") and look at them as good guys. In this game it's a bit more difficult. I don't see the MC as a good guy. I see him as a potential good guy but let's face it - he's actively participating in what's happening to these women. He's at best morally compromised.

A secondary factor is that they're all sexually involved with characters other than the MC. The dislike for that kind of thing is strong in quite a number of people.

I may be reading too much into the MC's inner monologues, but I think how 'good' a guy the MC is will be one of the main themes of the game. He chose to work at the Carnation Club, but he did that before he knew much about how the place worked. It's also not clear just badly he needed that money Chuck offered him.

It's obviously a Faustian deal in retrospect, but that still doesn't tell us whether the MC was a good guy who made a mistake or a bad guy who no longer needs to act otherwise. We'll decide that ourselves based on how we make the MC respond to the situations he finds himself in. That's my guess, anyway.

I do think that makes the game a bit niche, though. People who flat out hate dark themes have plenty of games where the MC isn't helping bad people exploit desperate girls. People who find dark themes a guilty pleasure would prefer games that don't put quite as much emphasis on the guilty part. It's only those of us who either revel in the darkness or relish the chance to deliberately refute it that get something unique out of this game.

It's somewhat similar with your point about sharing the LIs. NTR (or anything remotely approaching it) is already a bit of a niche; it's a very polarizing topic and the majority dislike it. This game has enough of it to be a hard pass for everyone who despises NTR, but there's not enough to be a slam dunk for those who love NTR, either.

It's still their choice. They can drop anytime they want. One wants to get her kid into a prestigious school, which is a completely selfish reason. Another girl is in debt. Anyone who has financed a car or taken out loans for college is in debt and one wants to save her business. They do have other choices, but in their minds they believe this is the easy way out of their situations.

Rosalind isn't in debt to a bank, she's in debt to organized crime. The penalty for non-payment to them is bad enough that I don't consider her participation voluntary. Veronica's would be... except for the detail that the only reason she's in so much debt is that Samson sabotaged her business specifically to force her into the contest. How is that meaningfully different from extortion?

 

[Retromancer]

Rosalind isn't in debt to a bank, she's in debt to organized crime. The penalty for non-payment to them is bad enough that I don't consider her participation voluntary. Veronica's would be... except for the detail that the only reason she's in so much debt is that Samson sabotaged her business specifically to force her into the contest. How is that meaningfully different from extortion?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, your whole post was thoughtful and well-said. As far as Veronica goes, businesses fail every day in America. The owners of said businesses pick themselves up and move on. It's not the end of the world. Samson caused her business to fail, and then presented an offer - through intermediaries, if my reading is correct, to voluntarily submit herself to a sex competition for money. By my understanding, this in no way meets the legal definition of extortion.

As far as Rosalind goes (and she is my favorite character), there are potential alternatives, such as going to the FBI or other law enforcement, moving out of state, etc. She is the one with my most sympathy because while I think it might have been possible to get out of this mess without going into the club, it's not really clear that she did have another choice. We will have to see how the rest of the backstory plays out.

As far as the game being too dark for some people, I can personally attest this is true. Recommended it to someone, they respected it for it's quality but wrote me a three paragraph rant on why they could not continue because of the game's themes. I get why it could get difficult and don't begrudge someone not being able to play it because of that. Still, it explores very mature themes in a way I have rarely seen done in a porn game, and that is fascinating. Wish more people would give it a try

 

[Deleted member 2030943]

I really like Rosaland at first glance, but I have a feeling there's a lot more going on with her than she's letting on. Especially after what she pulled in the apartment. (If you get that scene) You won't even get that scene depending on your choices.

 

[ename144]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, your whole post was thoughtful and well-said. As far as Veronica goes, businesses fail every day in America. The owners of said businesses pick themselves up and move on. It's not the end of the world. Samson caused her business to fail, and then presented an offer - through intermediaries, if my reading is correct, to voluntarily submit herself to a sex competition for money. By my understanding, this in no way meets the legal definition of extortion.

It may not be the end of the world but it is literally the end of her livelihood. She'd need to find a new job, which is a plenty stressful event. And that's assuming Samson stopped there and didn't continue to sabotage whatever Veronica tried next.

Is it really that different than the classic "Nice gym you've got here, be a shame if something were to happen to it" routine? This particular scheme is focused on sex instead of money, but otherwise it seems the same to me. It's one thing for a business to fail, but it's quite another to undermine that business continually until the owner takes the specific action you want.

As far as Rosalind goes (and she is my favorite character), there are potential alternatives, such as going to the FBI or other law enforcement, moving out of state, etc. She is the one with my most sympathy because while I think it might have been possible to get out of this mess without going into the club, it's not really clear that she did have another choice. We will have to see how the rest of the backstory plays out.

But what exactly could the FBI do? By definition, criminals are already violating the law, so it's not like a court order would protect her. She'd either need the specific people who would harm her locked up, or to go into something like witness protection to hide from them. Unfortunately, she may not have any useful evidence against those criminals; she's almost certainly never dealt with the ringleaders, and she wasn't the one who took out the loan in the first place. I'm sure the authorities would be sympathetic, but there might not be much they can do to help.

As far as the game being too dark for some people, I can personally attest this is true. Recommended it to someone, they respected it for it's quality but wrote me a three paragraph rant on why they could not continue because of the game's themes. I get why it could get difficult and don't begrudge someone not being able to play it because of that. Still, it explores very mature themes in a way I have rarely seen done in a porn game, and that is fascinating. Wish more people would give it a try

I can believe that. Hell, I'm worried the game will be too dark for me. So far it's done a remarkable job balancing the darkness with just the right amount of light, but I definitely worry that might change. Which would be pretty damn depressing and makes me nervous about supporting the game. But I'm probably going to do so anyway, because it's clearly got my attention.

 

[desmosome]

I may be reading too much into the MC's inner monologues, but I think how 'good' a guy the MC is will be one of the main themes of the game. He chose to work at the Carnation Club, but he did that before he knew much about how the place worked. It's also not clear just badly he needed that money Chuck offered him.

It's obviously a Faustian deal in retrospect, but that still doesn't tell us whether the MC was a good guy who made a mistake or a bad guy who no longer needs to act otherwise. We'll decide that ourselves based on how we make the MC respond to the situations he finds himself in. That's my guess, anyway.

I do think that makes the game a bit niche, though. People who flat out hate dark themes have plenty of games where the MC isn't helping bad people exploit desperate girls. People who find dark themes a guilty pleasure would prefer games that don't put quite as much emphasis on the guilty part. It's only those of us who either revel in the darkness or relish the chance to deliberately refute it that get something unique out of this game.

It's somewhat similar with your point about sharing the LIs. NTR (or anything remotely approaching it) is already a bit of a niche; it's a very polarizing topic and the majority dislike it. This game has enough of it to be a hard pass for everyone who despises NTR, but there's not enough to be a slam dunk for those who love NTR, either.



Rosalind isn't in debt to a bank, she's in debt to organized crime. The penalty for non-payment to them is bad enough that I don't consider her participation voluntary. Veronica's would be... except for the detail that the only reason she's in so much debt is that Samson sabotaged her business specifically to force her into the contest. How is that meaningfully different from extortion?

Pretty much agree with everything here. This game is walking it's own path. It doesn't really fit into the common categories that we are accustomed to. Many games these days tries to follow the same paths laid out before them. College slice of life stuff, harem builders, NTR, corruption, incest romance tropey games, trainers, etc etc.

Here, we have a rather dark premise of a powerful organization taking advantage of desperate women. However, it's not so simple when you look deeper into it. Lesser writers might have taken this set up and gone for the low hanging fruit of corruption/slave/domination type of story (I am not saying those are bad, it's my preferred tags actually). With Pale Carnations, we see so much depth in all the characters and how the story unfolds. The beauty of this script is that all characters are behaving in a believable manner in accordance to their motivations, personality, and circumstances. This is why it's so convincing. While the main plot line is on the dark side, there is a surprising amount of heart at it's core. There are some lowkey humor in it too.

I don't think there is a single cookie cutter character that fits snugly into a cliche.
Ian is a damn good friend if there ever was one, but obviously he has a rather cynical view of women. There are moments where his humanity shows through like when he interacts with MC's mom or when he talks about the priority being the carnations' well being. Doesn't mean he will pass on the bukkake ceremony or something.

Boss Lady is a femme fatale and is extremely ruthless. But she has shown some masochistic streaks during one of the games. Did she though? How much of it was an act? Maybe it was entirely faked. Maybe it was real, and it was a hint at some possibilities way down the road. She's a hard one to read and that is her strength.

The father of the biker chick is clearly evil at first glance. He leverages her mom's medical bills to make her work there. What's his angle? It's a really horrible thing to do to his daughter, but he does seem to care about her well being in his own way. He watches her concert incognito. Is he just keeping tabs or does he just want to see her doing what she likes? Is making her work there some misguided attempts to bring her back into his life after walking away?

Rosalind is the most sympathetic character here. She seems a bit timid at first, but she has a surprisingly strong resolve to make a better life for her daughter. She even tries to seduce the MC to get an advantage (something she is clearly not accustomed to doing). But is it all an act? We know for sure shes agreeing to be MC's plaything as a means to an end. However, she is clearly enjoying it to some extent. Maybe even just subconsciously.

I could go on about every character really. The way the MC is handled is especially commendable. The MC's voice is a hard one to get right in a choice heavy game because there is usually some common text that plays in between choices. In many games, the darker choices are wildly out of sync with how the MC usually acts... cough.. Radiant.. cough. I didn't notice any such problem here. A large part of it is because the MC's baseline persona is presented as neutral/grey, which is something most games with good/evil choices fails at accomplishing. Another reason is that there are no truly dark or sinister choices (at least so far). He can indulge and take advantage, but it is in line with his job description. All the choices are believable for any normal person to make given the circumstances. He isn't suddenly having a burst of psychopathy like some other games. Most importantly, the MC is a competently normal person, which makes him a great avatar. Lot's of games feature some "average joe" as a bumbling idiot way out of his depth. Others might show a full on sociopath who may or may not be aware of his condition. Some games offer the God MC that rolled 18 in all stats. Here, we see an actual average guy who has his issues but tries to make optimal choices and doesn't buckle under pressure.

As for the sharing and stuff, it probably takes a bit of refined taste to fully appreciate this. It's not a typical story revolving around the MC. The MC is just a cog in the wheel just like everyone else.

I must sound like a fangay after this text dump