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ename144
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I'll be curious to see how Mina's content varies depending on if you went shopping with her or not.
I'm curious about the rest too, of course, but I find it interesting Mina will get substantial development after that first choice.
EDIT:
Also, I've got all these spreadsheets burning a hole in my desktop, why not plot the progress for this game too?
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- Dec 8, 2017
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I feel comfortable on commenting on this since it's just about the generalized structure of the game and not story related spoilers, but I'll put it in a spoiler anyway in case you want that curiosity sated by playing the update.
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ename144
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Thanks for the info, that's how I hoped it would work.
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Yes! I am just so curious about Felicia, I'm having such a hard time imagining what the hell her motives are.
And not just her, Kathleen too seems like an incredibly interesting character, even though I absolutely detest her from the bottom of my heart. I would just love to pick her brain a bit, because her brand of evil seems weirdly... I don't know, responsible? Can you enjoy your evil responsibly? God, I don't know, she's just an enigma I can't wait to solve. I mean, she's not mindlessly sadistic, and despite her absolute ruthlessness she doesn't strike me as lacking empathy or just generally emotional intelligence. In fact, she scores pretty high when it comes to emotional intelligence, so whatever it is that makes her tick, I want to know about it because there just has to be an interesting story there.
ename144
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I mostly agree. Kathleen is a very smart and perceptive woman, and I think she's rather reprehensible all told. But I guess I don't find her quite as inscrutable as you.
A lot of Kathleen's 'restraint' can be explained by her perennial showmanship: her job is to keep the audience entertained and I get the feeling she prides herself on doing that well. So she's never going to go at one of the Carnations hammer and tongs on day 1. She's going to push them to their limit and then slowly press onward bit by bit until it's time for the grand finale. That's when the gloves would come off because that's the point at which breaking the girls (or at least two of them) becomes a positive rather than a negative.
Similarly, it's in her interest to keep the club on an even keel. So it behooves her not to be an overbearing asshole to her coworkers - even the minions. That would also explain why she'd direct the MC to help Hana; keeping Hana placated avoids August doing anything... drastic. So I think it's less a case of empathy and more a case of pragmatism. Based on Kathleen's dialog she has serious ambitions and a very cynical world view, and I think that fits my explanations.
In short, I think Kathleen often comes across as less ruthless than she actually is. Which makes her an excellent villain; I can hate her and still enjoy watching her. But it's possible there's more going on under the surface and I may be doing Kathleen a disservice. That could be cool, too.
At the very least she's an extremely interesting character, which is always good.
Crosaith.
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- Nov 18, 2017
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I wasn't planning on supporting another dev on Patreon, but now I gotta.
This is officially my fav game on the site. Beautiful girls with interesting personalities. Great story. Lots of content. Some hot sex scenes. Bonus points for having a protagonist that's competent and fun to play as.
My only real issue with this game is worrying that something really bad might happen to the girls.. This is one of the few games that made me care about the characters.. Please don't pull a Starless or Euphoria.
This is officially my fav game on the site. Beautiful girls with interesting personalities. Great story. Lots of content. Some hot sex scenes. Bonus points for having a protagonist that's competent and fun to play as.
My only real issue with this game is worrying that something really bad might happen to the girls.. This is one of the few games that made me care about the characters.. Please don't pull a Starless or Euphoria.
MrFuckNuts
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- Jul 27, 2018
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Ngl because the art was so good in the preview images, I thought I could count on the story/writing aspects to be a complete and utter disaster. How wrong I was, how wrong I was. This games brilliant
Retromancer
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I agree with all of the above. I think the option of flipping Kathleen to the MC's side is not only possible but an almost surefire thing, which is why I don't think of her as a "villain" in a traditional sense. I get the feeling she can be redeemed. But the damage she might do along the way might be too much for some players to forgive, and that's fine. She is incredibly interesting, I agree.
Retromancer
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madman11122
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Pale Carnations is #14 on the weighted rating list. Lets get it into the top 10! If you haven't rated get it done, 5 stars!
ename144
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I'm not so sure. I definitely think we can get Kathleen on the MC's side, but that would be a case of her considering the MC a friend rather than a change in her overall disposition. I doubt redemption is in the cards for her. I don't see much to indicate that the way she treats people bothers her in the slightest.
Kathleen's line that the MC hasn't had the kindness beaten out of him doesn't say much for her idealism. Perhaps she had the kindness beat out of her long ago and thus her cynicism is more of a defense mechanism. If so, she's pretty well defended because there's no sign of restraint or empathy from her. She's eager to get what she wants by whatever method is most expedient, and she routinely dismisses the concerns of those around her - even August and Chuck who seem to regard her as a friend (though she's forced to act behind their backs).
To be redeemed, Kathleen would have to accept that what she has been doing is wrong. Could she ever be willing not only to give up exploiting people but to actively undo the benefits of her previous exploitation? It's possible - and I'd certainly love it if that happens - but I'm not holding my breath.
Retromancer
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Question - if she assists in the complete destruction of the club, but doesn't accept that what she was doing was wrong, and justifies it for whatever reason, would that count as a redemption for you? It would for me but I see why others might not think so. I think if the club ends Kathleen's assistance will be necessary, which is why I say I get the feeling she can be redeemed because I believe that is going to be one of the endings.
ename144
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This is an extremely complex philosophical question, especially for a pirate forum dedicated to AVG.
But IMHO, I would say it does not.To me, an acknowledgement that one was in the wrong is the single most important part of redemption. A person could still do good deeds without being redeemed, and indeed they could be a powerful ally in a good cause. But if they're never truly remorseful about the wrongs they inflicted then they aren't redeemed because, were the same circumstances to come up in the future, they'd start doing wrong all over again.
In my view, redemption isn't about doing enough good deeds to balance some metaphorical ledger. It's about a genuine desire to mitigate the harm a person has already caused. And the first step on that path is always committing to stop inflicting that harm.
That's not to say it wouldn't be worthwhile to make a deal with an unrepentant Kathleen if you think it will help end the Club once and for all; it might be, depending on the details. But I would say that's more a question about pragmatism by the MC than it is about Kathleen's morality.
ninetofive
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- Oct 23, 2019
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Figured I'd come drop my thoughts in this thread and pop a review on this game because it really is deserving.
I will preface this with saying I am not even into the kinks in this game. I actually dislike sharing/group sex and not a big fan of voyeurism either, and these are pretty much the themes this game is centered around. Having said that this is still one of the best VN's around IMO.
The artwork and renders are absolutely top class. The story is engaging and building at a nice pace. The characters are varied and interesting with unique personalities. The game is well presented and the sound fits nicely. There is an enormous amount of content for a game which has had only one update since the first release (I think?).
I have a couple of criticisms but they are minor. I find the dialogue to be a bit long-winded sometimes. I am not one to skip text usually but I have been close to skipping/skimming through some of the scenes because they can drag on a bit. Also I'm not sure the MC's behaviour is reflecting my choices that well, I've been pretty balanced with my "toughness" choices as I don't want my MC to be an asshole but he still calls girls "bitches" and "fucking sluts" pretty often. That could just be me being on the wrong side of that scale though. Lastly making a character as hot as Felicia but her being a total whore triggers me lol.
Cannot wait for the next update, Hana and Mina being super hot and seemingly the two characters who aren't complete cum addicts
Please for the love of god don't let Killian fuck my mom if I steal his girl, I'm getting reaaaaal bad vibes about that
I will preface this with saying I am not even into the kinks in this game. I actually dislike sharing/group sex and not a big fan of voyeurism either, and these are pretty much the themes this game is centered around. Having said that this is still one of the best VN's around IMO.
The artwork and renders are absolutely top class. The story is engaging and building at a nice pace. The characters are varied and interesting with unique personalities. The game is well presented and the sound fits nicely. There is an enormous amount of content for a game which has had only one update since the first release (I think?).
I have a couple of criticisms but they are minor. I find the dialogue to be a bit long-winded sometimes. I am not one to skip text usually but I have been close to skipping/skimming through some of the scenes because they can drag on a bit. Also I'm not sure the MC's behaviour is reflecting my choices that well, I've been pretty balanced with my "toughness" choices as I don't want my MC to be an asshole but he still calls girls "bitches" and "fucking sluts" pretty often. That could just be me being on the wrong side of that scale though. Lastly making a character as hot as Felicia but her being a total whore triggers me lol.
Cannot wait for the next update, Hana and Mina being super hot and seemingly the two characters who aren't complete cum addicts
Please for the love of god don't let Killian fuck my mom if I steal his girl, I'm getting reaaaaal bad vibes about that
- Jun 25, 2018
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ninetofive
I encourage you to post it as a review, the more good reviews PC gets, the more likely it is the game will continue. With that said I disagree with that statement:
And if you can deduce what the dialogue is about just by looking at the optional responses it usually means it's a quality product. In PC there are also times when we get additional responses depending on our previous choices (sometimes greyed out if we don't meet the requirements). That's something uncommon in VN and shows the effort put in instead of going the "it's erotic game, no one reads in erotic games so let's put "me ask more"/"urgh" types of responses since no one playing this will notice".
And I encourage gralthan to repost your review here, it's so good it needs to be reposted.
I encourage you to post it as a review, the more good reviews PC gets, the more likely it is the game will continue. With that said I disagree with that statement:
I have entirely different view on this, usually I skip or skim through all or most dialogues in erotic games because they're either atrocious or just don't make any sense. Here however I got hooked from the very start and was pleasantly surprised how good writing here is. I've found that you can tell if the game has good writing and if the author isn't doing a half-assed job if our responses are more elaborate than "yes"/"no" or some other one-word lazy writing.
And if you can deduce what the dialogue is about just by looking at the optional responses it usually means it's a quality product. In PC there are also times when we get additional responses depending on our previous choices (sometimes greyed out if we don't meet the requirements). That's something uncommon in VN and shows the effort put in instead of going the "it's erotic game, no one reads in erotic games so let's put "me ask more"/"urgh" types of responses since no one playing this will notice".
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And I encourage gralthan to repost your review here, it's so good it needs to be reposted.
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ninetofive
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Yeah I already posted a condensed version as a review, I rarely review games here unless they are excellent or horribly overrated. This one is extra deserving for managing to hook me in even when I dislike the main kinks.
I know what you mean regarding writing in VN's, and the writing in this game is great, it's just a bit too much for me from time to time. Like I said it's a minor criticism, pretty much just a nitpick because there aren't many flaws to be honest.
It's heavily implied that the previous dude in MC's job was disappeared by Kathleen lol. She is absolutely ruthless and I see little chance of redemption. The way I see it, it isn't that MC can bring her to his side, but more like the MC will go over to her side if you choose.
I really would like to get some nice leverage over her and reverse the power dynamics, but I'm not so sure that is in the cards. Let's see what happens. The writing keeps things really realistic in that every character is acting according to their own motivations and abilities. This makes it hard to predict the outcomes based on our typical porn game expectations where the universe and logic revolves around the MC.