VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[redknight00]

Free Hana:

 

[selberdreher]

(...)
Other points can be debated but unless something changes I think it is almost impassible that Victoria took part in a previous game.
1. We know she did porn 13/14 years before the game takes place (the video shows 2009 when she says she is 31 and her age in game is 44).
2. August says he has been at the club for 5 years and since he is a owner its safe to assume he was there at the start
3. We know Ian has worked/attended the club for the last 3 years (since he turned 18)

With just these three points it makes it really hard for Victoria to have been part of the Carnations at any point. She would have had to keep doing porn from the time MC was a child (in 2009) until 2019 when the club first opened, or stopped at some point and while being relatively financially stable with no "wish" for the club to grant yet still for some reason got involved. Even if she did get involved it would have to be in the first two years of the club before Ian started attending (as a customer or as a worker). This is because Ian/MC/Victoria have devolved a comedy routine around the fact that Ian has been able to talk to Victoria like he does almost everyone else and this started back when Ian and MC were kids. So unless Ian (who cant resist joking that he knows Rose) can somehow fool MC and Victoria by acting the exact same as he always did (despise Victoria allegedly being a Carnation) the timeline does not really line up.

I think a much bigger hint is that in one of the first videos we see Victoria in the person who is by the camera/asking questions is standing in a way that just their face is not shown. It could be a red herring but it could also be that showing their face at the start would ruin an upcoming twist.

Unless there is a major twist, which would collide with what we know to be facts in the "Carnations world", Victoria was never with the Carnations Club. She made porn about one and a half decade ago, but unrelated to the PC Club which as far as we know is a decade old tops. Most likely the club is roughly 6 years old.
August and Chuck go way back as we learned and August is at the club for five years now. I have the gutfeeling that PC started as the brainchild of Kath and Chuck, who then brought in his old pal August, who is the most business like owner of the three, keeping the day-to-day of the Club running smoothly.
So the Club might be a bit older than August being there, but I think no more than a year at most.

I agree with both your conclusion about Victoria, she never worked for the club.
simpgor made a small mistake, Vicky is according to her profile 46 years old. Both your timelines about the club and Ians work there are correct.
However, if we assume TD1900 had no slip of the pen with Victorias age both in her profile and in her gonzo video, i do believe Vicky is lying about her age there. She tried to give a fake name to conceal her identity, but was forced to say her real one; i am convinced she tried that again with her age, but this time the cameraman either let it slide or didn't knew her real age.
Do the math again, and keep your discovery either to yourself or bury it deep in spoilers, because i believe this is a big one.

On that note, what do you guys think about Dr. Charles Kohlers age of 65 and his alleged sister Grace Beaufort, Killians mother, who is also 46 years old. Quite a late arrival in the Kohlers family, neh?

 

[selberdreher]

My speculations, mild spoilers maybe:
(...)

I'm bettinfg MC's dad worked for ths charity the club uses to find women, which he may have found out/maybe involed woth. Murdered maybe? (...) Could also play into a long game scenario like Veronica where someone took out dad so mom would get desprite.

Edwins dad died when he was 6 years old, he recently had his 22th birthday. While his dad could have worked for the charity back then, it wasn't used for the Carnations Club at that time, because the Club was established roughly 10 years later. Also to murder someones husband in the faint hope you could trick the grieving widow into porn, sounds a bit like, i dunno ... overkill?

Victoria probsbly A) not left porn cuase she ended up being onto it (...)

Victoria pretty surely left porn some time ago for good, the question of course is, was she into it? not unfeasible...

Somethong tells me Lucy is gonna be a high eaening/head girll by the end. She' expeimenring and lyong wothout batring an eye now

Right, Lucy's doing a grade A corruption career at the moment. Sex work is a slippery slope...

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I think that sounds like reaching to me. So far nothing ingame indicates that Victoria was doing porn anything other than a long time ago, when Edwin was still a kid.
I find more likely that she simply knew Chuck because he already walked around the sex indutry by that time, before becoming a partner at the Carnation Club. His nice teacher/mentor behaviour was likely always a facade to hide his darker self.

About Grace and Chuck i suppose maybe they only share one parent or their parents got a surprise pregnancy late in their marriage.

 

[selberdreher]

I think that sounds like reaching to me.

Hi, RC-1138 Boss, i am not sure, if you are adressing whizwart or me here, but could you elaborate a bit? One or two sentence should be enough, just because i can't tell to which statement 'reaching' is directed. Blame my bad comprehension.

(...) So far nothing ingame indicates that Victoria was doing porn anything other than a long time ago, when Edwin was still a kid.
(...)

Yes, my "some time ago, for good" is misleading, i think she left porn much more than 6 years ago. Question is when Edwin still was a kid like

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I find more likely that she simply knew Chuck because he already walked around the sex indutry by that time, before becoming a partner at the Carnation Club. His nice teacher/mentor behaviour was likely always a facade to hide his darker self.

100% agree.

About Grace and Chuck i suppose maybe they only share one parent or their parents got a surprise pregnancy late in their marriage.

Well, the latter is definetly possible, period. The former a bit less, since nowhere it is said, that those two are only half-siblings, as far as i remember. As a matter of fact, i am still also undecided about this age gap, so i asked for your opinions.

But for sure those blue eyes run prominently in this family, given that they are usually considered recessive. (John H. McDonald, University of Delaware disagrees)
Hm, and red hair is also commonly caused by a recessive allele found on chromosome 16.
Which proves of course nothing, because the Beaufort side of the family can be very well all red haired, blue eyed folks of irish, scottish or british descendance. Hmmm, but Beaufort seems to be an awfully french name to me. Ah, well, there are redheads everywhere and Kohler is quite sure a german name. As i said nothing is proven, i am just curious and try to connect the dots in a plausible way.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Hi, RC-1138 Boss, i am not sure, if you are adressing whizwart or me here, but could you elaborate a bit? One or two sentence should be enough, just because i can't tell to which statement 'reaching' is directed. Blame my bad comprehension.

My fault. Sorry.
i was reading your two comments including the one where you quoted whizwart conspiracy theory about Edwin's dad death. Somehow i mixed this and your comment about until when Victoria was working doing porn when making my post.

Yes, my "some time ago, for good" is misleading, i think she left porn much more than 6 years ago. Question is when Edwin still was a kid like

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Truth be told it could be either of them. I really can't see any clue indicate which one.

Well, the latter is definetly possible, period. The former a bit less, since nowhere it is said, that those two are only half-siblings, as far as i remember. As a matter of fact, i am still also undecided about this age gap, so i asked for your opinions.

But for sure those blue eyes run prominently in this family, given that they are usually considered recessive. (John H. McDonald, University of Delaware disagrees)
Hm, and red hair is also commonly caused by a recessive allele found on chromosome 16.
Which proves of course nothing, because the Beaufort side of the family can be very well all red haired, blue eyed folks of irish, scottish or british descendance. Hmmm, but Beaufort seems to be an awfully french name to me. Ah, well, there are redheads everywhere and Kohler is quite sure a german name. As i said nothing is proven, i am just curious and try to connect the dots in a plausible way.

I was thinking more on the former but not much. I suppose we are bound to have more answers for this when Edwin meet Grace again to talk about Ian.

 

[selberdreher]

Truth be told it could be either of them. I really can't see any clue indicate which one.

Do you really want to know? Or do you want to mull it over a bit longer?

 

[lostkaoru]

This is the one perfect game for me really. Only wish its on steam for me to pay for it.

 

[Hector Wimbleton]

This is the one perfect game for me really. Only wish its on steam for me to pay for it.

It'd be an instabuy for sure and imagine the animated steam avatars

 

[Deleted member 4887608]

Man, it feels kinda good to use abuse the characters but as the story progresses and you get to know them they kinda grow on you and suddenly you feel a bit of guilt about further doing it as the game demands.

 

[Idontplay]

No.

 

[brownrice]

Love the relationship with Mia, the bully/affection choice with her was perfect.

 

[GinoPuppy]

the story is really solid thus far (c3.u4). not a mindless porn game, but a story that pulls you in. looking forward to more!!

 

[yanjiejiu]

I enjoyed reading the dialogue so much, the MC's comments seem to contain a queer unique sense of humour (e.g. At least one of us is trying to get me laid) and a calm and gentle sort of sharpeness (e.g. but you of all people should know showing affection doesn't come easy to some), these together puts my mind at ease somehow.
Can anyone point me to some key words if I wish to find writing of similar styles? Or even better recommend some novels? Many thanks.

 

[Bill Temple]

I enjoyed reading the dialogue so much, the MC's comments seem to contain a queer sense of humour (e.g. At least one of us is trying to get me laid) and a calm and gentle sort of sharpeness (e.g. but you of all people should know showing affection doesn't come easy to some), these together puts my mind at ease somehow.
Can anyone point me to some key words if I wish to find writing of similar styles? Or even better recommend some novels? Many thanks.

My knowledge of adult visual novels and games isn't as extensive as some and I'm limited to English as that's the only language I'm proficient enough in to discern good writing from bad. That said, I've read a few dozen of these novels over the last few years, of which few have good writing and most range from not good to awful. None that I've found are in any way comparable to Pale Carnations. TD is a fluke, an aberration in the world of adult visual novel writers. Also, I've no experience with traditional erotic literature like might be found in a middle-aged woman's nightstand, but I suspect the writing of some of those might rival Pale Carnations. Though, the topics and sex in those are probably more vanilla and cater to a different audience.

My two favorite runners-up to Pale Carnations are Deviant Anomalies and Desert Stalker, but again these aren't in the same class as Pale Carnations. Neither of them have the same level of protagonist introspection, nor are they pure visual novels.

 

[NateGrey]

LOL, I just saw a user in another thread whose signature is just "Pale Carnations is garbage NTR". Kinda sad to focus like that on something you hate rather than something you like, but I guess not everyone's got a lot going on in their lives. Still, as a dev I'd be rather proud at being able to get under someone's skin to such an extent!

 

[TD1900]

LOL, I just saw a user in another thread whose signature is just "Pale Carnations is garbage NTR". Kinda sad to focus like that on something you hate rather than something you like, but I guess not everyone's got a lot going on in their lives. Still, as a dev I'd be rather proud at being able to get under someone's skin to such an extent!

Maybe the person is an avid NTR fan and is dissatisfied by the lack of quality NTR.

 

[NateGrey]

Maybe the person is an avid NTR fan and is dissatisfied by the lack of quality NTR.

Hadn't considered that! I guess you could try pleasing them by having the customers pull a train on Mia and Hana?

*ducks for the incoming barrage of facepalms*

 

[selberdreher]

I enjoyed reading the dialogue so much, the MC's comments seem to contain a queer sense of humour (e.g. At least one of us is trying to get me laid) and a calm and gentle sort of sharpeness (e.g. but you of all people should know showing affection doesn't come easy to some), these together puts my mind at ease somehow.
Can anyone point me to some key words if I wish to find writing of similar styles? Or even better recommend some novels? Many thanks.

Bill Temples recommendation of Desert Stalker is a good one, very strong post-apocalyptic worldbuilding, can't say much about the other game, haven't played it to a great extend. I think one can safely recommened also Nothing Is Forever and Our Red String which both do a really good job in building the relationships between the NPCs in a realistic, believeable way with dialogues which are usually spot-on. But they are not so much on the humourous side.
If you like ('queer') humour i would like to point you also towards Spacecorps XXX, which i personally enjoy alot, despite being a heterosexual man. So if you are looking for authors, who are able to occasionally push you out of your comfort zone, you could look there.
However, enough cross-promoting, the truth is, you will have a relatively hard time to find authors on par with TD1900 (at least on the AVN front), because TD1900 is able not only to write witty dialogs, to build a compelling world, to create both hateable and loveable characters, but also to avoid nearly completely any filler content.
Is it called delusional if you see things that may not be there? Because after playing PC i do believe, there is almost no sentence, dia- or monolog or description which doesn't serve a purpose storywise. And this author made me believe.

 

[yanjiejiu]

My knowledge of adult visual novels and games isn't as extensive as some and I'm limited to English as that's the only language I'm proficient enough in to discern good writing from bad. That said, I've read a few dozen of these novels over the last few years, of which few have good writing and most range from not good to awful. None that I've found are in any way comparable to Pale Carnations. TD is a fluke, an aberration in the world of adult visual novel writers. Also, I've no experience with traditional erotic literature like might be found in a middle-aged woman's nightstand, but I suspect the writing of some of those might rival Pale Carnations. Though, the topics and sex in those are probably more vanilla and cater to a different audience.

My two favorite runners-up to Pale Carnations are Deviant Anomalies and Desert Stalker, but again these aren't in the same class as Pale Carnations. Neither of them have the same level of protagonist introspection, nor are they pure visual novels.

Thank you! Note to self - Deviant Anomalies, Desert Stalker and middle-aged woman's night stand.

If you like ('queer') humour i would like to point you also towards Spacecorps XXX, which i personally enjoy alot, despite being a heterosexual man. So if you are looking for authors, who are able to occasionally push you out of your comfort zone, you could look there.

I guess by 'queer' I really meant that I couldn't put finger on what sort of humor that is, being an ESL didn't help me and, now that I think about it, I'm not even sure how to describe it in my first language.

Is it called delusional if you see things that may not be there? Because after playing PC i do believe, there is almost no sentence, dia- or monolog or description which doesn't serve a purpose storywise

I get some similar sense when reading the dialogue - It reminds me of sometimes when therapists coax along their patients by simply echoing their last sentence, and how in sharp contrast that is to how the MC responds to and cares for his friends' confidence, without limiting himself to a 'neutral stand' and the conversation a tedious exchange of concerns. I find this enormously charming.
Thanks for the recommendation, will try.