- Dec 29, 2017
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- Thread starter GIL3D
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- Dec 29, 2017
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Haha okey, i don't wanna be a screenshot nazi, i just find them a convenient way to quickly prove a point. It saves the others the time to look it up, and if they do, they can also check the context of the surrounding scene. Which was e.g. important for me to get the Mina situation, and enabled me to comprehend finally, what she actually said and meant, after i realized those three pictures were from the "say something nice to each other" challenge at Edwins birthday.
I mean if you describe the scene, so we are able to find it relatively easily, that's fine. And i am pretty sure i can lookup the Nintendo game session, following your description.
I just wanted to prevent the common use of stuff like "Everyone knows"/"Someone said" to cover for flimsy arguments.
Just be as specific as the matter at hand has to be. We don't need to provide a screenshot to prove that Vicky is 46 years old, we can say: "Check her Profile." But we should be ready to backup stuff we bring to the table, if someone asks.
- Sep 20, 2018
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I know that feeling well!
The discussion is one of my favorite parts of the game - PC has a lot of layers to it that merit investigation, and I would have missed a lot of them if you and the others hadn't pointed them out. I wish I had more time to dig into the issues now, but August has been a real crunch this year.
You're right, we have no hard evidence for when Victoria's porn career stopped, but I do think we have some indication that it ended a while ago.
This is what the MC tells Hana, and I think we can all agree he isn't lying. Now the MC isn't omniscient, but he's generally presented as smart and capable. If, during his formative years, he stumbled on an old video of his mom doing porn, I don't think he's going to shrug his shoulders and rationalize it away. No, he's going to investigate and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes. When did it start? When did it end? How does that synch up with his memories? That sort of thing.
And at least to me, that's consistent with what we've seen. He knows it started after his father died, and thinks it didn't last long. He has a collection of her videos that he hates but feels bound to watch just to remember what he owes his mother. We know he's never talked to his mom about this, so he must be getting his information from somewhere. I don't think it's idle speculation.
As Simpgor pointed out, the timeline doesn't seem to fit the MC finding out about her porn career before driving his mom to tears. Beyond that, though, I'd also say the narrative cuts against it. If Victoria is at the point of despair over the MC's behavior, starting a porn career to throw money at the problem is a bit of a muddled theme. But if Victoria has already been doing porn to make ends meet, suddenly everything snaps into place: she's agonizing over the idea that the MC would never have acted out if she'd been a 'better' mother.
I take your point but I don't think I can agree. Victoria is a big part of what elevates this game above the standard corruption fare, but still only a part.
In most corruption games, the "cost" of corruption is generally handwaved. We're repeatedly told corruption is a bad thing, but all too often the reasons why it's bad are little more than platitudes while the perks of corruption are shown in all their tantalizing glory. In this game we see the price of corruption quite clearly thanks to all the time spent with the Carnations. Moreover, we also get see some of the perks of resisting corruption.
Victoria serves both halves of the equation. We see how the MC's pervious actions brought her to tears as a child, and thus we take more seriously his concerns that getting involved in the Club might likewise hurt her. Meanwhile she serves as an example of what the Carnations aspire to (Rosalind in particular), and thus we're encouraged to help them achieve their goals rather than simply exploiting for cheap thrills.
Still, in the end Victoria is a supporting character in the MC's story. She doesn't need to have a major role going forward because she's already had a impact on both the MC and the player. We need to see how her relationship with the MC changes after their secrets are revealed to each other, but anything beyond that is gravy. In fact, I think trying to tie her into the rest of the narrative more directly runs the risk of overshadowing her connections to the MC. If you keep putting twists in your story, eventually the story becomes more about the twists than the straightaways. I'd hate for a character as grounded as Victoria to be trapped under a pile of soap opera tropes.
That's not to say any new link between Victoria and another character automatically makes the game worse, just that such links should be used carefully and sparingly.
That's not not necessarily true. If the Club opened by holding the first Exhibition the then-upcoming 4th anniversary would be the 5th annual Exhibition.
Having said that, I entirely agree with your take that Victoria is definitely not a former Carnation.
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- Dec 29, 2017
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Also related, but unrelated, going forward in PCs story its very likely, that our experiences will diverge, thus our informations will differ and so will our common shared knowledge.
As a kind of disclaimer: i have a canon playthrough which deviated very little along the way, there is no high/low toughness one, no high Vero affection one, no Rosie no deal one. I don't play a universial ren'Py mod nor do i rip the CGIs.
I estimate i have actually seen like perhaps 80% (tops) of the currently available content, and i expect to drop this ratio dramatically in the next updates, because i don't want to spoil myself too much, in case i want to replay PC with other routes (which i intend to do).
This restricts of course all my statements and theories to my current playthrough. So asking for visual proof is less a bullying, but more a "i don't know, please show me".
Which is especially true for Vickys Videos. I just cannot say if i pokemoned them all, so i am highly interested if someone else has snippets i am unaware of.
There are two (or three) more reasons why i am so interested in her videos:
First and opposed to
"She loved me, and tried her best to keep me fed and sheltered, with all this external adversities imposed on her. She had no agency in this and was forced by the circumstances and people who exploited her weakness. I should be and i am grateful and try to repay her one day for her sacrifices she made for us. That's why i'll get a PhD in Medicine, to be able to provide a carefree life for us finally. And of course it didn't impacted me in any other way, especially not my perception of women."
Of course there is a mystery about Victorias porn career, and knowing exactly when she started, why she started, how long she was in and who had their fingers in that development is pivotal for Edwins stance towards the carnations, the club and the owners and his general outlook on life.
And most importantly: will he, in the upcoming future events, still be able to fall back on Victoria as a guiding, soothing and grounding figure who kept his ethics in check sofar, if his perception of his Mother changes.
The second one is:
The gaze through the lens of the videocamera provides us with with rare objective data. It's not how Edwin sees the videos, he wasn't operating the camera, it's our view on the scene, we are the camera man. The timestamps are objective dates in a game which purposefully hides and blurs important turning points and incidents of this story. (That's why i am so keen to set them straight)
Every thought, every spoken line and even the actions of the ingame characters could be flawed by self-deception and delusion, by the attempt to deceive others, or the will to manipulate and to enforce a hidden agenda. Truth is a rare commodity in this game.
and the third one is simple: i can get off on them, hard. Vicky sex scenes ftw.
Edit for clarification
As a kind of disclaimer: i have a canon playthrough which deviated very little along the way, there is no high/low toughness one, no high Vero affection one, no Rosie no deal one. I don't play a universial ren'Py mod nor do i rip the CGIs.
I estimate i have actually seen like perhaps 80% (tops) of the currently available content, and i expect to drop this ratio dramatically in the next updates, because i don't want to spoil myself too much, in case i want to replay PC with other routes (which i intend to do).
This restricts of course all my statements and theories to my current playthrough. So asking for visual proof is less a bullying, but more a "i don't know, please show me".
Which is especially true for Vickys Videos. I just cannot say if i pokemoned them all, so i am highly interested if someone else has snippets i am unaware of.
In an earlier post i said "Victoria is definetly one of the - if not the - most interesting character for me." and your post, Sir, puts that on point.
There are two (or three) more reasons why i am so interested in her videos:
First and opposed to
While it is true, that Edwin is not on a quest to learn about his Moms exact start, duration, extend and end, it's only so, because he made up his mind already about what implications this has and had on him.
"She loved me, and tried her best to keep me fed and sheltered, with all this external adversities imposed on her. She had no agency in this and was forced by the circumstances and people who exploited her weakness. I should be and i am grateful and try to repay her one day for her sacrifices she made for us. That's why i'll get a PhD in Medicine, to be able to provide a carefree life for us finally. And of course it didn't impacted me in any other way, especially not my perception of women."
Of course there is a mystery about Victorias porn career, and knowing exactly when she started, why she started, how long she was in and who had their fingers in that development is pivotal for Edwins stance towards the carnations, the club and the owners and his general outlook on life.
And most importantly: will he, in the upcoming future events, still be able to fall back on Victoria as a guiding, soothing and grounding figure who kept his ethics in check sofar, if his perception of his Mother changes.
The second one is:
The gaze through the lens of the videocamera provides us with with rare objective data. It's not how Edwin sees the videos, he wasn't operating the camera, it's our view on the scene, we are the camera man. The timestamps are objective dates in a game which purposefully hides and blurs important turning points and incidents of this story. (That's why i am so keen to set them straight)
Every thought, every spoken line and even the actions of the ingame characters could be flawed by self-deception and delusion, by the attempt to deceive others, or the will to manipulate and to enforce a hidden agenda. Truth is a rare commodity in this game.
and the third one is simple: i can get off on them, hard. Vicky sex scenes ftw.
Edit for clarification
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- Dec 29, 2017
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I think he missed the very first exhibition, since he says "The Exhibitions? All, but one. Why?" in your screenshot.
I don't believe he is lying there, why should he in this situation. So he attended three exhibitions plus the ongoing fifth.
- Sep 20, 2018
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I don't see the complication here. Ian said he's attended all but one of the Exhibitions. So he missed the one four years ago (which was when the Club first opened), but he attended the one three years ago (after he turned 18), the one two years ago, the one last year, and we've seen him attending the current Exhibition.
So he's attended 4 of the 5 annual Exhibitions. No conflict between what he and August said.
- May 21, 2021
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Mina and Hana are too perfect to exist irl
- Apr 17, 2019
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Those words hurt more than irl NTR.
- May 21, 2021
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Hey yall, if someone could help me, the memories for the in game events are not showing in the leisure room area. If anyone knows about this issue please let me know. Also great game!
- Dec 29, 2017
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I'd like to elaborate a bit more on that issue, and would like to focus particularly on the difficulties to determine accurate timespans and timepoints, especially if they are just stated in a casual conversation. Because even without malicious intent they are surprisingly unreliable.
A robot is able to tell an event happened "7 years 5 months 23 days and 13 hours" ago, and perhaps even adding the exact minutes and seconds.
Humans are no robots, so we would refer to the same event like "It happened seven and a half year ago" if we are precise or more likely something like "It happened seven or eight years ago".
Human memory is notoriously vague in recalling the precise circumstances and time of an incident, even if this incident was important or "life-changing" at that time. There are several important "life-changing" (that's ofc a bit exaggerated) events in my own life, and without reconfirming them with my family, my friends or girlfriends and other sources, i am at a loss of the exact time and my age, let alone the precise date.
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We forget things, we remember falsely and we unconsciously twist our memories so they make sense to us.
There is also another interesting thing i just found out, while i was pondering this issue:
If someone was born in 1960 how old would they be in 1982? Looks easy, simple math: Most people would say 22.
Fun fact: alot of people born in 1960 were actually 21 for a good or even great amount of the year 1982. Oktober born ones spent 75% of 1982 as 21 year olds, and if they are born at New Year's Eve... it's 99,7%.
So how does this apply to PaleCarnations?
We simply have to take every stated timespan or timeframe by the characters with a grain of salt, not only because they could be lying, but also just because there is very likely a certain margin of time to that statement.
When Grace says Ian is a year younger than Edwin, he is not exactly a year younger but a few or several month younger.
When Edwin says a decade ago, it's likely something between 9 to 13 years and not exactly 10 years.
When Ian says he joined the club three years ago, it's tree years plusminus a few months.
We have to take a margin into account, if we are to determine the timeline and we need to countercheck with other sources and hard evidence (like Vicky's unedited videos).
With all this said, i have to announce with great regret that my favourite working theory lies on it's deathbed. It is dying and there is few hope for recovery, since i would need to stretch those margins to the extreme to make this timeline work. Alas, who knows, there is still a slim chance, so i won't spoil it yet.
However, fear not dear fellows, i have already came up with another one, of which i am not as fond of as with my old one, but this new theory could nonetheless prove juicy enough to satisfy your tastes.
So let's go for the real timeline.
- Dec 29, 2017
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Lets start with a few points i believe we all can agree on.
Victoria is 46. As of June she could already had her birthday, or her birthday could still lie ahead in the months to come, thus turning her 47 this year.
Edwin recently (as of 7th of June) had his 22nd birthday. So she was 24 when she was giving birth to him. But she could turned 25 in his birthyear.
Victorias Husband died when Edwin was a around 6 years old. So she was either 30 or 31, when she became a widow.
Killian is 21. Grace said he is a year younger than Edwin, which means he is a few or several months younger, but not a whole year, both shared the same age until Edwins birthday. So Killian very likely already had his birthday this year, since he said he is with the club since three years, when he turned 18.
Now thanks to Simpgor, who provided this piece of evidence, which kinda was a missing part of the puzzle, atleast it simplified my line of evidence.
Aaaaand now (*/drumroll) my Ladies and Gentlemen, dropping the bomb. Lets take a look at these two screenshots:
I'd say we can agree that the gentleman to the left in this Exhibition is indeed Ian, and the guy to the right should be Darius. Even if he is masked, there had to be a literal Twin working at the club to meet this kind of resemblance.
Our Characters know the year they are living in, so even if the year was tampered with by Kathleen, there can't be a too big deviation, because this would be conspicuous to Edwin.
Now we are able to deduce relative easily which is the actual current year.
If Exhibition 3 took place in the summer of 2017, then the 4th was 2018, and the current 5th one takes place in the year 2019.
I think i waited long enough and was dropping hints left and right about it.
So there are for sure several of you, who are now aware of the grave consequences this year has.
However i will spell it out, for those who aren't following this thread as closely as others.
I stated here that Victoria is lying about her age in her casting video.
There is of course more, but i will conclude this post for now, awaiting your views on this matter. Still alot to consider for us.
Cheers, as always! Ganbatte!
Victoria is 46. As of June she could already had her birthday, or her birthday could still lie ahead in the months to come, thus turning her 47 this year.
Edwin recently (as of 7th of June) had his 22nd birthday. So she was 24 when she was giving birth to him. But she could turned 25 in his birthyear.
Victorias Husband died when Edwin was a around 6 years old. So she was either 30 or 31, when she became a widow.
Killian is 21. Grace said he is a year younger than Edwin, which means he is a few or several months younger, but not a whole year, both shared the same age until Edwins birthday. So Killian very likely already had his birthday this year, since he said he is with the club since three years, when he turned 18.
Now thanks to Simpgor, who provided this piece of evidence, which kinda was a missing part of the puzzle, atleast it simplified my line of evidence.
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Our Characters know the year they are living in, so even if the year was tampered with by Kathleen, there can't be a too big deviation, because this would be conspicuous to Edwin.
Now we are able to deduce relative easily which is the actual current year.
If Exhibition 3 took place in the summer of 2017, then the 4th was 2018, and the current 5th one takes place in the year 2019.
I think i waited long enough and was dropping hints left and right about it.
So there are for sure several of you, who are now aware of the grave consequences this year has.
However i will spell it out, for those who aren't following this thread as closely as others.
I stated here that Victoria is lying about her age in her casting video.
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There is of course more, but i will conclude this post for now, awaiting your views on this matter. Still alot to consider for us.
Cheers, as always! Ganbatte!
- Apr 26, 2017
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