Patreon Account Selling Pirated Games - Developers Beware

[repuindy]

I mostly agree with Aesouh. Some people never ever will pay for any games because they find it for free. Despite this, you need to consider most people play a ton of games and simply you can pay for every game. If you think every month or so i play roughly 30/40 games and for what I know i am an amateur compared to many members, the expense would be excessive.

 

[RomanHume]

Right now the battle is those that would and could pay but don't because there is a "free" alternative.

We just ignore those people.

Look, at the end of the day I only want patrons who love our project and actually "want" to support us. Those are the patrons that are going to stick around, those are the patrons are going to be with you through the high times and low. We had a hardware meltdown near the beginning of our second quarter last year. We went months without producing anything, but because the patrons we had were quality people that believed in us, they stuck around and it was their support that got us back up and running and where we are now.

Look, if I could make $3k doing this, I'd quit my day job and take the pay cut just to not have to put up with bullshit that exists in every job. I mean $3k in your pocket a month is the equivalent of a $50k salary after you take out for taxes and insurance. Of course I do better than that now working full time, but still, I'd take the hit in pay to enjoy the freedom.

But I'd feel a lot safer knowing that $3k a month was being offered up by people who don't have to pay me, but are choosing to support me because they like what I'm providing.

 

[freedom.call]

Some devs/games make tons of money so there has to be more to it than 'because piracy' imo. What it is I do not know.
Some really good games make little money and some can just stop updating and swim in cash for a long time after.

 

[RomanHume]

half percent sounds about right As for him making a business he has a very well paying day job. He thinks he can change things so drastically and will still make what he does now. as for me getting money out of this, I don't get much so I'm cutting back. Not much else I can do as I'm disabled

I am curious on a personal level why you stick around then.

You definitely seem to be at odds with the guy, and I you aren't being compensated for you time, why do it?

If you're whole schtick is PR work, why not hook up with a developer that actually sees the value in your perspective?

Not criticizing, just curious.

 

[Aesouh]

We just ignore those people.

Look, at the end of the day I only want patrons who love our project and actually "want" to support us. Those are the patrons that are going to stick around, those are the patrons are going to be with you through the high times and low. We had a hardware meltdown near the beginning of our second quarter last year. We went months without producing anything, but because the patrons we had were quality people that believed in us, they stuck around and it was their support that got us back up and running and where we are now.

Look, if I could make $3k doing this, I'd quit my day job and take the pay cut just to not have to put up with bullshit that exists in every job. I mean $3k in your pocket a month is the equivalent of a $50k salary after you take out for taxes and insurance. Of course I do better than that now working full time, but still, I'd take the hit in pay to enjoy the freedom.

But I'd feel a lot safer knowing that $3k a month was being offered up by people who don't have to pay me, but are choosing to support me because they like what I'm providing.

in your country somehow patreon earnings is tax exempt??? In most countries living from donations like streamers or youtube or in this case patreon which is actually not really donations is considered a taxable income.

If anything you need to earn more from patreon than your work before tax due to the fact that there is no social security around it either, there is no money put aside for retirement or if company provides insurance and whatnot.

 

[RomanHume]

in your country somehow patreon earnings is tax exempt??? In most countries living from donations like streamers or youtube or in this case patreon which is actually not really donations is considered a taxable income.

If anything you need to earn more from patreon than your work before tax due to the fact that there is no social security around it either, there is no money put aside for retirement or if company provides insurance and whatnot.

To clarify, I meant "$3k in pocket", that's after Patreon's cut and taxes. 70% being the average take home after taxes and insurance.

($3k * 12 = $36k) -> ($36k/.7 = $50k a year after taxes and insurance) approximately of course.

My point was that I personally would happily take a 40% pay cut for the non-monetary benefits offered from self-employment and the joy of sitting around writing porn all day.

 

[Aesouh]

To clarify, I meant "$3k in pocket", that's after Patreon's cut and taxes. 70% being the average take home after taxes and insurance.

($3k * 12 = $36k) -> ($36k/.7 = $50k a year after taxes and insurance) approximately of course.

My point was that I personally would happily take a 40% pay cut for the non-monetary benefits offered from self-employment and the joy of sitting around writing porn all day.

You live in some pretty dope country to only pay 30% tax like that for money in your pocket, first counting corporate tax and then removing your own income tax and other fees... it's more the other way around, it's like 30% money in the pocket when it gets up to those amounts Thats why most people keep money in the company and expense the company instead, and take out small salaries. I think a lot of people earning money from patreon think of it as donations and like donations would be tax exempt, its not.

 

[おい！]

You live in some pretty dope country to only pay 30% tax like that for money in your pocket, first counting corporate tax and then removing your own income tax and other fees... it's more the other way around, it's like 30% money in the pocket when it gets up to those amounts Thats why most people keep money in the company and expense the company instead, and take out small salaries. I think a lot of people earning money from patreon think of it as donations and like donations would be tax exempt, its not.

One of my friends earns 5k a month and takes home just over 3.5k of that after stoppages.

 

[RomanHume]

You live in some pretty dope country to only pay 30% tax like that for money in your pocket, first counting corporate tax and then removing your own income tax and other fees... it's more the other way around, it's like 30% money in the pocket when it gets up to those amounts That's why most people keep money in the company and expense the company instead, and take out small salaries. I think a lot of people earning money from patreon think of it as donations and like donations would be tax exempt, its not.

I live in the U.S.A. I also live in a state with no income tax. Which means I'm only paying federal taxes and insurance. It averages 30% to 35% in a given month.

I mean, technically you're tax exempt up to the first $20k because Patreon doesn't require a W-9 until you hit that threshold. Of course you're not really tax exempt, it's just not getting reported.

But paying a corporate tax, that's asinine! Why would we go through the headache to get incorporated when we have near-zero liability in our business operations? The only reason to incorporate is if you need to protect your personal assets or want to split ownership of the company. On paper we exist as a partnership specifically to avoid double taxation on our income.

The only thing we have to worry about getting sued over is unintentional copywrite infringement. And for a company as small as ours with no real tangible assets, we'd get issued a cease and desist if that ever happened and we'd comply with it and go on with life.

Are there really devs on here who have incorporated around their project?

 

[Joraell]

If you count all taxes in central europe you will get number about 42%

 

[Aesouh]

If you count all taxes in central europe you will get number about 42%

really, because usually income tax is based off how much you earn so it scales up to a certain roof. In worst cases in some countries your income tax alone can scale up to like 60-70%. Lets say you have a company profit tax of 15% If you earn little from patreon then the basically the taxes will be lower as well, just like any other income.

 

[Joraell]

really, because usually income tax is based off how much you earn so it scales up to a certain roof. In worst cases in some countries your income tax alone can scale up to like 60-70%. Lets say you have a company profit tax of 15% If you earn little from patreon then the basically the taxes will be lower as well, just like any other income.

I'm talking about all taxes counted what you give to give to state as normal working person.

 

[Aesouh]

I'm talking about all taxes counted what you give to give to state as normal working person.

So you are telling me someone who pulls 100k a year pays the same amount of taxes as someone on 50k?

 

[Joraell]

So you are telling me someone who pulls 100k a year pays the same amount of taxes as someone on 50k?

80% people in each state is in the middle of all taxes. That means 80% people pays almost the same an here is 42% standart. If you are really rich motherfucker you pay more but it is from really biger amount of money. not 50K

 

[Aesouh]

One of my friends earns 5k a month and takes home just over 3.5k of that after stoppages.

Yes but that's after an employer pays all the other fees and pays the tax for taking in the money. If you earn from patreon and its a lot you need to set up a company and count it as corporate earnings and pay corporate tax on profits, and then you can pay down to your employee or shareholder, in this case yourself,

Also your employer tends to also pay towards your pension, so while maybe the disposable income is 3.5k you also get money on the side, and other benefits.

Just because you earn 5k before tax doesnt mean this is what the employer pays, they tend to pay a lot more for you, but when its your own company you will see all these normally hidden-from-you fees. And it really adds up. Thats also why it makes sense that outsorce is so damn expensive, cause its a lot of taxes ontop of it before you get some money in your hand.

The amounts totally depends on your earnings, and each country has their own requirements as well.

 

[おい！]

If you count all taxes in central europe you will get number about 42%

Which countries count as central Europe? I live in central Europe and the tax on earnings in my Country are nowhere near 42%. You have to be earning over 200k a year to get to 40% tax in my Country

 

[Aesouh]

Which countries count as central Europe? I live in central Europe and the tax on earnings in my Country are nowhere near 42%. You have to be earning over 200k a year to get to 40% tax in my Country

There are a few countries that are capped at income tax of 35% as well but this does not count in all the other fees an employer has to pay...

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Hyperserver]

well, in germany you can go up to 47,5%

You must be registered to see the links

also it extremely depends if you are single or married (living just together counts as single - just official marriage lowers the taxes)

EDIT:
and you dont have just to count taxes - there are several other forced financial supplements additional on top of the taxes (for example "Solidaritätszuschlag", health insurance (its a Duty to pay over here), and so on) - so you get up to 47,5 %

 

[Aesouh]

I have come to the conclusion that maybe freelance taxation in poland would be a good contender for keeping a good amount of money. hmm

 

[Hyperserver]

I have come to the conclusion that maybe freelance taxation in poland would be a good contender for keeping a good amount of money. hmm

why do you think a lot of polish business want to offer work over here?they got payed by germanys level (which is adjusted to our tax system) but then pay taxes in Poland (where the head office is located) and pay polish taxes - so its a big amount of profit for them

PS: isn't it going extreme offtopic now?