Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[Ignazzio]

Funny, because over the last decade we've seen a huge jump in the production of incest related roleplay content in mainstream porn. Funny, because the most popular show on television features not one, not two, not 3, but dozens and dozens more sexual relationships between family members. If anything, you're the one who's not mainstream anymore.

Porn is not mainstream almost by definition. GoT has incest but it's not porn so people don't watch it for it. I've never heard of anyone who would watch it for incest rather than story. 1 mainstream production proves the point? I'm not saying it's not popular but not in a mainstream. Rape is the most popular fetish in Asia and it's in a plenty of mainstream production but it's hard to defend its popularity there as it's not popular. Typical human who's not strongly into porn has no defined extreme fetishes or isn't interested with porn at all.

I don't know if you meant to say it that way, but seriously, find a better way to write, because this is nothing short of insulting.

Yeah, it sounds worse when I read it now I guess. Not the most subtle way to put it but the essence is: playerbase of erotic games is different from typical playerbase and popular things here won't be popular on a mainstream. Patreon ban was just to make this platform more bearable for mainstream and it's hard to argue that it's not a good move for them. It's still a crappy move for us and our market

 

[DarthSeduction]

Porn is not mainstream almost by definition. GoT has incest but it's not porn so people don't watch it for it. I've never heard of anyone who would watch it for incest rather than story. 1 mainstream production proves the point? I'm not saying it's not popular but not in a mainstream. Rape is the most popular fetish in Asia and it's in a plenty of mainstream production but it's hard to defend its popularity there as it's not popular. Typical human who's not strongly into porn has no defined extreme fetishes or isn't interested with porn at all.



Yeah, it sounds worse when I read it now I guess. Not the most subtle way to put it but the essence is: playerbase of erotic games is different from typical playerbase and popular things here won't be popular on a mainstream. Patreon ban was just to make this platform more bearable for mainstream and it's hard to argue that it's not a good move for them. It's still a crappy move for us and our market

Put simply, you're abusing the definition of mainstream. The market isn't a fluke. If incest were the deal breaker that people claim it were, then GoT wouldn't have its popularity. If incest were the deal breaker that people claim it was, Big Brother and Summertime Saga wouldn't make as much money as they do. If Incest weren't popular, it woudn't be selling in mainstream porn.

Your argument that those who consume porn are themselves not mainstream also doesn't hold water. Put simply, most people consume pornography. And this brings us to the point that should have slapped you in the face. Rape is incredibly popular in Japan, however its difficult to defend its popularity, so people choose not to. However, it still gets purchased, its still consumed.

This means there is a mainstream market for the content. There has to be. Else it wouldn't sell. And there is the crux of this whole argument. This isn't about mainstream. This is about perception. Society perceives incest as inherently bad and therefore worthy of scorn. However, individually, behind closed doors, enough of us revel in the taboo that it holds significant power in the market.

Patreon's censorship isn't about catering to the mainstream, its about putting on a face that is in congruence with societal norms. The problem, as usual, is that society is lying to itself. You, I know, don't care for incest, but anecdotal evidence doesn't count for much. What does count is the orgy of evidence saturating the market. Incest is mainstream. Porn is taboo, and incest is a greater taboo. We don't speak of them in polite company and therefore we hide what we truly like.

Patreon is trying to make themselves polite company. This is why so many of us fear that it's only a matter of time before they simply purge porn from their platform entirely. However, the fact that we don't, in polite company, discuss something, doesn't make it less mainstream. It is this taboo that creates the strife, not the lack of interest.

 

[Notretsam]

Big brother was making 25 thousand dollars a month. Summertime Saga is making 25 thousand dollars a month. Know what both those games have in common? Incest. Incest does sell to a very large audience. Just you not liking it doesn't mean no one does. Its a taboo, therefore its inherently sexier than a story about a random guy and girl in a relationship.

I never said there wasn't a market for games with incest, I said there is a BIGGER market for games without incest, something I truly believe, and that has nothing to do with my personal opinion on incest. You line up 100 random people, most are going tell you they think incest is disgusting, if you line up 100 people from this forum, different outcome for sure.

The market really depends on the people in it, I would say that right now the current market of players are more OK with incest, however without incest, the amount of players in the market would become much BIGGER, as I think more players join the player pool that developers can reach with there game.

Lets just pick a random number of 100,000 , that is the current player pool , the amount of players currently supporting/playing games on patreon, am saying that number would become much higher without incest in games.

Maybe market isn't the correct word I was looking for, maybe "player pool" and "player reach" is better.

Furthermore, stories of incest are fairly popular. The third through sixth

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were "milf", "step mom", "step sister", and "mom", in that order. Incest and near-incest is quite popular.

Feel like I answered your market stuff above, but I wanted to say something very very important to you

step mom, step sister is NOT INCEST

Also MILF means mature I like to fuck or mom I like to fuck , that mom could be someone else's mum.

so your porn hub search point doesn't support your argument off incest being popular, but clearly it is on this forum and majority of current "player pool"


end of day, its just my opinion but I think school , love , friends game had a jump on patreons after it moved away from incest. Not sure if that is correct, just remember someone saying in a thread, there was a increase of patreons, sure it was school, love, friends.

 

[Random]

The obvious flaw in your thesis, which should smack you in the face like a sledgehammer so I can't believe this needs pointed out, if there are say 1,000,000 players in the world for any given game, and 100,000 of them like incest and the rest hate it. Removing the incest does NOT guarantee that you gain 900,000 players for that game. It can quite possibly mean you lose the 100,000 you had. You will probably never get the other 900,000 players leaving the incest content in place. That is more or less a given. Removing something that may have been a selling point for the first 100,000 is a great way to lose a significant portion of them.

Moreover, I can almost guarantee you will lose more than you gain removing anything that was there at the beginning. This is general knowledge in a lot of industries, but it bares some insight for those who aren't as familiar with it. Under normal circumstances you get one shot to sell a product to any individual user, if you make a good impression they might come back again, if you make a really good impression they might tell a friend who MIGHT give you a second chance if they know you. If you don't sell a person on that first try, you probably never will. So our haters of incest will probably never give those games a second try because they had a bad impression the first time. Nothing has changed in their minds, they haven't been given a reason to give it another look. Now you make a bad impression on the customers you have by removing something they liked, you just lost customers. Where do the new customers come from? You don't get a second chance with group 1, haters, you lose group 2, likers, you don't get find a new market, where is this mythical increase coming from?

 

[Notretsam]

obviously I don't believe the 100,000 would be lost, which is why it wasn't mentioned . don't think for one second that ALL people who play adult games with incest are suddenly going to stop playing when incest taken out.

the mythical increase comes from new people who never seen the game , so therefore, the increase is not so mythical.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I never said there wasn't a market for games with incest, I said there is a BIGGER market for games without incest, something I truly believe, and that has nothing to do with my personal opinion on incest.

This is a logical fallacy. As is evident by the market of pornography from video to gaming, to literature, not only is the size of the incest market large, but incredibly so. What you're failing to see is why, however. You see, as I believe I said previously, people aren't interested in "vanilla porn". They want something incredibly erotic. Incest, as a fetish, achieves this through taboo. Taboo inherently increases the eroticism.

You line up 100 random people, most are going tell you they think incest is disgusting, if you line up 100 people from this forum, different outcome for sure.

Based on the market share held by incest, this is also false. Do you think there's no market analysis going on in porn companies?

The market really depends on the people in it, I would say that right now the current market of players are more OK with incest, however without incest, the amount of players in the market would become much BIGGER, as I think more players join the player pool that developers can reach with there game.

This is an assumption, though, and one that data would suggest not to be true.

Maybe market isn't the correct word I was looking for, maybe "player pool" and "player reach" is better.

Nope, in context they have the same meaning. And to continue while the market is saturated with incest, I assure you, incest is not the only thing on the market. There are plenty of games by competent developers that go above and beyond incest. My second favorite game, and likely one of the best written VN on the market, is Depraved Awakening. Aside from the ex-step daughter, there's nothing of incest content in the game.

step mom, step sister is NOT INCEST

First off, it's only "Step-mom and Step-daughter" more recently as payment providers recoiled at incest in the past. There are plenty of older videos, from the rise of incest in porn, that didn't make that distinction.

Secondly, you'll find that paypal, the source of patreon's changes, and other payment providers, have also rebuffed step relations. Go to Xhamster and you'll see that every step video as well as every non step video will have a huge NOT in the title, because they aren't allowed to have incest on their payment platform. And that goes for Patreon as well. Faerin, the developer of Man of the House, in correspondence with patreon on what he'd need to do to sanitize his game, found that they do not tolerate any form of incest including step and adopted family. As a result he was forced to change the official version of his game to a Roommate and Landlord scenario.

In any case, the prevalence of Incest porn in the market today shows that the market for incest is larger than any other market. There is no market for Vanilla porn. There has to be some taboo. And Incest seems to be the big hitter.

 

[Random]

obviously I don't believe the 100,000 would be lost, which is why it wasn't mentioned . don't think for one second that ALL people who play adult games with incest are suddenly going to stop playing when incest taken out.

the mythical increase comes from new people who never seen the game , so therefore, the increase is not so mythical.

That last camp only exists when a product is newer. How long a product is new depends drastically on how well known it is, and how fast the market it is in is growing. I'm going to assume you mean that you don't think they'll lose 'all 100,000' because the alternative, that you believe they won't lose anyone at all is just silly. However, that still isn't a good position to be in for any industry. You're telling them they'll gain new customers who have never heard of their product if they're willing to give up some portion of the customers they have. They're not going to gain these new customers over night, sudden changes can cause losses overnight. You may be right that in the long run they'd be better off, I somehow doubt it, but let's assume you are correct. It doesn't matter how much better off they'll be next year if they have to abandon their project to pay the bills that I assure you aren't getting any cheaper just because they've lost income in the next few months. Most companies don't survive a pivot in market strategy, that is one reason most of them are so resistant to it. Do you really think that companies spend so much money on lobbyists whose only job it is to maintain the laws and regulations the way they are, or loosen them because they aren't terrified by the prospects of changing their products?

Think about New Coke. All market research was in their favor. At launch they saw an 8% increase in sales just as predicted, people liked the new taste. Then the market backlash hit, an entire portion of the pre-change market started calling the change heresy, and raised such a fuss that international bottlers in Mexico refused to change to the new product. In less than 3 months Coke saw the writing on the wall and switched the formula back before the damage could get any worse. A product that had proved better in market research, had better customer satisfaction, and was cheaper to produce had just lost them a significant amount of good will, sales, and nearly lost them international markets.

 

[Notretsam]

This is a logical fallacy. As is evident by the market of pornography from video to gaming, to literature, not only is the size of the incest market large, but incredibly so. What you're failing to see is why, however. You see, as I believe I said previously, people aren't interested in "vanilla porn". They want something incredibly erotic. Incest, as a fetish, achieves this through taboo. Taboo inherently increases the eroticism.

jeez your post is so one sided with your opinion, that it make it completely pointless to even post, as you clearly can't see another point of view but your own. However here I go.

Maybe I am wrong, but just because incest is more taboo, does not mean there is a bigger market for it, I would say voyeur and sleep assault is just as big a taboo as incest is.

Based on the market share held by incest, this is also false. Do you think there's no market analysis going on in porn companies?

so I use the word Market, but yet you ask me if I think there no analysis going on. I think its obvious I do.

This is an assumption, though, and one that data would suggest not to be true.

and any opinion you or anyone else have, is an assumption as well.

Nope, in context they have the same meaning. And to continue while the market is saturated with incest, I assure you, incest is not the only thing on the market. There are plenty of games by competent developers that go above and beyond incest. My second favorite game, and likely one of the best written VN on the market, is Depraved Awakening. Aside from the ex-step daughter, there's nothing of incest content in the game.

yeah same meaning, true on that

as for the other games, yeah am sure there other games without incest, but they generally seem to suck. however, I have not seen every single game ever made, on this forum, it appears the most popular games are incest related, something I already stated

I will look into Depraved Awakening if I remember to. thanks

First off, it's only "Step-mom and Step-daughter" more recently as payment providers recoiled at incest in the past. There are plenty of older videos, from the rise of incest in porn, that didn't make that distinction.

Secondly, you'll find that paypal, the source of patreon's changes, and other payment providers, have also rebuffed step relations. Go to Xhamster and you'll see that every step video as well as every non step video will have a huge NOT in the title, because they aren't allowed to have incest on their payment platform. And that goes for Patreon as well. Faerin, the developer of Man of the House, in correspondence with patreon on what he'd need to do to sanitize his game, found that they do not tolerate any form of incest including step and adopted family. As a result he was forced to change the official version of his game to a Roommate and Landlord scenario.

In any case, the prevalence of Incest porn in the market today shows that the market for incest is larger than any other market. There is no market for Vanilla porn. There has to be some taboo. And Incest seems to be the big hitter.

I didn't know it included step, and I don't see an issue with that myself.

To contain everything but incest into vanilla porn is just comical


end of the day, the same reason why patreon and businesses block incest, is the same reason you and others like incest, its a taboo to far for most people.

 

[Notretsam]

jeez your post is so one sided with your opinion, that it make it completely pointless to even post, as you clearly can't see another point of view but your own. However here I go.

after thinking about it a bit more, I guess all our own posts are one sided with our own opinions.

 

[DarthSeduction]

so I use the phrase Market, but yet you ask me if I think there no analysis going on. I think its obvious I do.

Then why are you, and I mean you, ignoring the orgy of evidence that shows the market is saturated with incest porn? If you acknowledge that they do market research before making the decision to invest heavily in a market, then you have to also acknowledge that their research has determined that incest is more profitable.

Maybe I am wrong, but just because incest is more taboo, does not mean there is a bigger market for it, I would say voyeur and sleep assault is just as big a taboo as incest is.

There are parts of the world wherein consent doesn't matter as much to popularity(japan for instance), but in the majority of the world, non consensual porn doesn't really sell as well. Furthermore, noncon is also banned by patreon's new rules, so voyeurism, somnophilia(sleep assault), rape, molestation, hypnotism, mind control, time stop, etc, are all just as banned as incest.

To contain everything but incest into vanilla porn is just comical

That's not what I'm saying at all, but you're implying that if we remove incest we gain a larger market share. Just removing incest from most titles creates a situation where, for the most part, the experience is vanilla. Once you start including other fetishes, kinks, and taboos, you run into the same problem you do with incest, you're pigeonholing your viewers into one extreme or another. And here's the crux. Incest, as a kink, is really just vanilla sex. Sure the gameplay might include a corruption angle, but really, its just two people who want to fuck, fucking. What makes it extra erotic is the fact that they're related.

As a result, people who don't like incest can still view and get off to incest porn, because most people aren't so much turned off by incest as simply not interested in it. So you can still fap. However the moment you get into other kinks you run the risk of turning people off. Pain doesn't do anything for me. Even spanking in games is excessive to me, though not an immediate turn off. So if you get into the bondage territory, you're starting to lose me. Consent is a big deal for me, I can't watch rape and molestation without feeling dirty, I do make an exception for hypnosis and Mind control, as the result of either is actually consent, its manufactured consent, but consent nonetheless. So, without going into each and every possible kink, I think I've shown, the moment kinks get involved, you risk alienating some part of the potential audience.

To go back to your 100,000 people. Sure, maybe only 30% of them are into incest. But when you compare that 30% to the 10s and 15s other fetishes receive, it becomes clear that there is greater market value in incest than there is in other fetishes. Yes, I do enjoy incest, however, I'm not basing this on opinion, I'm basing it on the market. The market is saturated with incest and it does well, that means inherently, that incest has a larger audience than other kinks, and that is why your entire argument, that avoiding incest will get you a larger share of the market, is based on a flawed assumption about the market.

 

[Notretsam]

Then why are you, and I mean you, ignoring the orgy of evidence that shows the market is saturated with incest porn? If you acknowledge that they do market research before making the decision to invest heavily in a market, then you have to also acknowledge that their research has determined that incest is more profitable.

I already acknowledged on this forum, that majorly going to vote for incest, which was seen recently on a poll.

If I go to a bdsm forum , they would vote bdsm over incest
If I go to a voyeur forum, they would vote voyeur over incest.

Hence my earlier point, the market really depends on the people in it.

There is much larger number of taboos than incest, each taboo has its following and fans.

an you stated vanilla sex and incest, like it was just they two, so yes, you did combine all other taboos into vanilla sex, maybe you didn't attend to but you did.

If there really is research that determines incest is more profitable, then that research has been done wrong, it doesn't take research to know that more people frown upon incest than accept it, therefore the market is larger for non incest games.

I would agree that someone would look at popular games listed on this forum, and conclude that incest is more profitable. As someone who has/is considering learning ren'py, I had the concern of it being pointless me learning, as people on this forum will not be interested in any game I make. However, there is still a strong market for non incest games I concluded.

end of day, I was just trying to point out a positive for patreon rule change on incest, and why its not the end of the world like some seem to think it is, and also from a business stand point why patreon made the change,

 

[HiEv]

No, stories about incest haven't always been frowned upon. Hell, even the Bible has

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getting him drunk and having sex with him until they're pregnant.

I disagree. It wasn't tolarated by almost every culture and religion since the beginning of our race. Except for some cultural popularity amongst nobility at some point it wasn't really popular at any time. You just used depiction of sin as an argument that incest was ok in Bible.

You ignored an important word there. I didn't say incest was OK in the Bible, I said, "stories about incest" were tolerated, and used the Bible as an example.

---

Feel like I answered your market stuff above, but I wanted to say something very very important to you

step mom, step sister is NOT INCEST

You should research your claims before making them.

From the Wikipedia "

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" article:
"Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives. This typically includes sexual activity between people in a consanguineous relationship (blood relations), and sometimes those related by affinity, stepfamily, those related by adoption or marriage, or members of the same clan or lineage."

Furthermore, I clearly added "near-incest" to my description of those popular PornHub search terms.

Also MILF means mature I like to fuck or mom I like to fuck , that mom could be someone else's mum.

"Could be", meaning, it isn't always. Yes, some of the terms could be used for non-incest porn, but they could also be used for incest porn. You're only kidding yourself if you think they're never used for that reason.

end of day, its just my opinion but I think school , love , friends game had a jump on patreons after it moved away from incest. Not sure if that is correct, just remember someone saying in a thread, there was a increase of patreons, sure it was school, love, friends.

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is worthless, as a single example is not sufficient evidence of a trend or tendency. You'd have to have something much better than one vague recollection for that to be actual evidence.

I never said there wasn't a market for games with incest, I said there is a BIGGER market for games without incest

And like I said earlier, the size of the market, by itself, says nothing about whether it's profitable to be in that market. Both the supply and the demand have to be measured and compared to determine what is more likely to be profitable.

For example, let's say there's 1,000 consumers in Market A and 100 providers for those items, and in Market B there's only 20 consumers and 1 provider. If both items cost the same, the provider for Market B makes twice as much as the average provider for Market A due to the different ratios of supply and demand (1 provider per 10 consumers in Market A vs. 1 provider per 20 consumers in Market B). In other words, sometimes it's more profitable to be in the smaller market if the supply isn't meeting the demand.

You can talk about the market size all you want, but it's completely irrelevant to determining profitability without also knowing about the supply side.

 

[Notretsam]

clearly you are not allowed to offer an opinion on why its a good thing patreon blocked games with incest on this forum.

am done debating this, seems like its pointless doing so, when people spout nonsense like Hiev's post.

 

[DarthSeduction]

an you stated vanilla sex and incest, like it was just they two, so yes, you did combine all other taboos into vanilla sex, maybe you didn't attend to but you did.

This is called misrepresenting my argument to create an argument apart from the argument at hand. You said that by removing incest. I supplied that vanilla sex isn't enough. At no point was I saying what you're attributing to me. This is a strawman. It's not the argument at hand.

I already acknowledged on this forum, that majorly going to vote for incest, which was seen recently on a poll.

If I go to a bdsm forum , they would vote bdsm over incest
If I go to a voyeur forum, they would vote voyeur over incest.

If you'd read my posts as they were written, and not as you're choosing to interpret them, you'd note that I never once suggested that this forum was the market. In fact, you'll find that as this forum is dedicated to piracy, its technically the opposite of a market. However, you're also committing yet another fallacy here. F95 isn't an incest forum. F95 collects and presents adult games from all different types and genre, and yet incest is still popular. Go on literally any porn website, specifically in private or incognito mode, and tell me you don't see incest videos constantly.

I'm representing the market as it is. You're the one trying to show that the market is biased to this site. The burden of proving that point is on you, and you've not only brought no evidence to back it up, but you consistently ignore any fact that isn't convenient to your agenda.

end of day, I was just trying to point out a positive for patreon rule change on incest, and why its not the end of the world like some seem to think it is, and also from a business stand point why patreon made the change,

No, you presented logical fallacy after logical fallacy to support your agenda. Patreon didn't all of the sudden decide incest was bad. Paypal did. Paypal is the one who doesn't want to be seen associated with it, and if they had their 'druthers they'd purge all pornographic content. And here is what you're not seeing. Society has placed a taboo on incest. Therefore, its not polite to talk about or share any fantasies regarding incest. However, the vast market share of incest, from here in adult gaming, on up to video based porn, and erotic literature, is too large for your blanket statement of:

If there really is research that determines incest is more profitable, then that research has been done wrong, it doesn't take research to know that more people frown upon incest than accept it, therefore the market is larger for non incest games.

So, given the vast amount of evidence of the value in incest, not just here on this forum which does not cater to any one fetish or another, but also in mainstream porn, and in literature, everything you've said about incest, its popularity, and so called logic, is wrong.

Again, you've brought nothing to the table to prove your point. My side has the entire internet's worth of porn to support it. The example I gave you earlier, about how the market really works, in practice, stands. While only 30% of people might actually enjoy incest, if that 30% is higher than the number of people that prefer any other kink, then the market is going to produce more incest. Its a basic numbers game. Does that mean you can't produce something? Hell no. I'm working on a game myself that has no incest. Has nothing to do with Patreon though, I simply want to see it made.

Lastly, for those of us who do enjoy a certain fetish, or do benefit from it, yes, given the evidence of today's market, taking down incest, which absolutely dominates the adult games market, and moreover has a huge presence in literature and video based porn, it is a major blow both to consumers and creators to lose that which we had enjoyed.

 

[DarthSeduction]

clearly you are not allowed to offer an opinion on why its a good thing patreon blocked games with incest on this forum.

am done debating this, seems like its pointless doing so, when people spout nonsense like Hiev's post.

Nonsense? He used definitions, showed a greater understanding of how markets work than you do, and made clear that he, unlike you, did not support anecdotal evidence. Throughout your time on this thread, you've displayed an inherent lack of understanding of how markets work. You've presented opinion and poorly thought out arguments as fact. You've ignored any evidence that contradited your opinion. You, Loneshysoul, are the one here who is spouting nonsense. You, if you'd like to be heard and treated with respect, should first, learn how to present an argument, second, do some research, and third, open yourself up to dissenting dialogue, because you have failed at every step to learn anything from this, and now are choosing to pick up your toys and go home rather than learn and accept when you're wrong.

 

[Notretsam]

actually I call it as it is DarthSeduction, I offered an opinion you and others disagree with, so basically my opinion is logical and wrong in your mind and others, no matter how many times I use facts to support my opinion.

You write endless amount of garbage about this and that, when simple fact is, the very reason patreon blocked use of incest in games is the same reason you and others enjoy it.

ya'll know this is true but will argue non stop about it , no matter what anyone says to you.

You twist my words to suit your own argument, then come back and state am choosing to interpret your points a certain way.

Heck I clearly stated what step and MILF means, an Hiev comes back and argues that it could also mean incest.

lol its comical how bad you both are desperately trying to prove me wrong, when you clearly know I am right.

 

[Notretsam]

Nonsense? He used definitions, showed a greater understanding of how markets work than you do, and made clear that he, unlike you, did not support anecdotal evidence. Throughout your time on this thread, you've displayed an inherent lack of understanding of how markets work. You've presented opinion and poorly thought out arguments as fact. You've ignored any evidence that contradited your opinion. You, Loneshysoul, are the one here who is spouting nonsense. You, if you'd like to be heard and treated with respect, should first, learn how to present an argument, second, do some research, and third, open yourself up to dissenting dialogue, because you have failed at every step to learn anything from this, and now are choosing to pick up your toys and go home rather than learn and accept when you're wrong.

when I replied to him that milf and step doesn't necessary mean incest, he comes back with below reply, which I consider to be nonsense. Like I don't know some people use milf as a incest term *edit* which I actually think doing so is wrong, milf has never been that specific.

"Could be", meaning, it isn't always. Yes, some of the terms could be used for non-incest porn, but they could also be used for incest porn. You're only kidding yourself if you think they're never used for that reason.

as for my arguments, I have stated step and milf do not mean incest, which is true

I have stated that there is people that don't like incest and prefer other taboos.

I have stated that patreon blocked incest for the same reason people like incest

I have stated that there is more than one taboo, there is not just incest.

I have stated many other facts that are also true.

as for picking up my toys and going home, nope, just don't see the point of repeating myself

 

[smnb]

end of day, its just my opinion but I think school , love , friends game had a jump on patreons after it moved away from incest. Not sure if that is correct, just remember someone saying in a thread, there was a increase of patreons, sure it was school, love, friends.

First, it didn't jump that much. Also at similar time, it gave hope to NTR brigade, so some of new pledgers came from there for sure. And finally, it's a sweet game and it's getting more and more nice images, so some growth is natural. Plus it was barely an incest game, only aunt and cousins, so it doesn't even count as incest in many places over the world.

clearly you are not allowed to offer an opinion on why its a good thing patreon blocked games with incest on this forum.

Oh no, different opinions are good, some opposition is important. My objection against yours, and I'll keep it short, is that even if it would turn out that Patreon's incest ban actually helped creators to attract more supporters and get more money, it's still bad. They should be allowed to decide themselves what's good for them.

 

[Notretsam]

First, it didn't jump that much. Also at similar time, it gave hope to NTR brigade, so some of new pledgers came from there for sure. And finally, it's a sweet game and it's getting more and more nice images, so some growth is natural. Plus it was barely an incest game, only aunt and cousins, so it doesn't even count as incest in many places over the world.

aunts and cousins is still incest but agreed on everything else you said.

Oh no, different opinions are good, some opposition is important. My objection against yours, and I'll keep it short, is that even if it would turn out that Patreon's incest ban actually helped creators to attract more supporters and get more money, it's still bad. They should be allowed to decide themselves what's good for them.

tell that to the other people posting in this thread and thanks.

I would agree with the last part, I presume you mean patreon decide for themselves, it does appear like its more paypal and 3rd parties that forcing the rule change, patreon should have freedom to decide themselves.

 

[DarthSeduction]

actually I call it as it is DarthSeduction, I offered an opinion you and others disagree with, so basically my opinion is logical and wrong in your mind and others, no matter how many times I use facts to support my opinion.

What fact? Point me to a single fact you've provided to support your argument that removing incest from the market will help developers? All you've done is say that it's a taboo. You fail to understand that it being a taboo is exactly what makes it popular. You fail to understand that it being a taboo doesn't matter to the consumers. You fail to understand that the market, all over the porn industry, has recognized that people don't care that its taboo and have chosen to continue marketing incest porn in spite of interference by financial institutions who don't want to be associated with it.

And finally lets get to how dumb you sound

You write endless amount of garbage about this and that, when simple fact is, the very reason patreon blocked use of incest in games is the same reason you and others enjoy it.

Wrong. The fact is Paypal gave Patreon and ultimatum. Paypal is a source of their profitability, as it makes paying for things online simple, and since you don't have to share credit card info, safe. As a result, when Paypal said, no more incest, as it violates our terms, Patreon was forced to make the decision. Patreon had previously come out assuring us that they had no intent on censoring us.

Heck I clearly stated what step and MILF means, an Hiev comes back and argues about that.

And, as Step is included in all contemporary definitions of incest, you are incorrect. As Milf is literally used in the titles of no less than 3 icstor incest games, you're also incorrect in your assertion that milf is inexoribly extricated from incest.

lol its comical how bad you both are desperately trying to prove me wrong, when you clearly know I am right.

This posturing you've begun, of you laughing at us because we are so clearly wrong, shows how little you have to bring to the table. You're completely out of straws at which to grasp to formulate a coherent argument for your side, as the evidence that's been brought to bear against you is too great, so now you're showing off, essentially saying "look at me I'm sooo superior" It goes to show your lack of maturity and inabilty to accept when you're wrong.

feck off, when I replied to him that milf and step doesn't necessary mean incest, he comes back with below reply, which I consider to be nonsense. Like I don't know some people use milf as a incest term.

reported

as for my arguments, I have stated step and milf do not mean incest, which is true

wrong

I have stated that there is people that don't like incest and prefer other taboos.

A fact no one has disputed, but one you're presenting as if it has any affect on the discussion.

I have stated that patreon blocked incest for the same reason people like incest

Which is, again, wrong, as you'd know if you'd read anything about this before coming in and sharing your opinion.

I have stated that there is more than one taboo, there is not just incest.

Again, no one is disputing the fact that there are other taboo, the argument is whether or not any of those taboo command as much of the market share as incest. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Incest doesn't have to control 50% of the market, It just has to be a larger number than all the rest, which, as it appears from browsing any porn related website these days is the case.

I have stated many other facts that are also true.

And this is the most desperate sounding thing I've ever read.

You don't know how markets work, so you're grasping at straws, trying to prove your point, but failing, because the market already exists with evidence to prove your assumptions incorrect. F95 isn't incest in a vaccuum, its just an adult gaming piracy site. The market is flooded with incest because it makes money, not because people here want to see it. The fact that it makes money is proof that those who are interested in adult gaming put their money into incest games, and that is why they became popular. To imply otherwise, as you must be doing in order to support your argument, is to put the cart before the horse.

If people weren't interested in incest porn, people wouldn't pay for it. The prevalence of incest porn in the entire porn market shows that people are interested in and will pay for incest porn. You don't like incest. That's fine. The market will reflect the overall consensus though, and that consensus says incest is doing well.